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stack
2011-08-02, 01:30 PM
Two revelations from different oracle mysteries allow the use of CHA in place of DEX, but I noticed they are slightly different:

Lore - Sidestep Secret (Su): Your innate understanding of the universe has granted you preternatural reflexes and the uncanny ability to step out of danger at the very last second. Add your Charisma modifier (instead of your Dexterity modifier) to your Armor Class and all Reflex saving throws. Your armor’s maximum Dexterity bonus applies to your Charisma instead of your Dexterity

Nature - Nature’s Whispers (Ex): You have become so attuned to the whispers of the natural world, from the croaking of frogs to the groaning of great boulders, that your surroundings constantly keep you preternaturally aware of danger. You may add your Charisma modifier, instead of your Dexterity modifier, to your Armor Class and CMD. Any condition that would cause you to lose your Dexterity modifier to your Armor Class instead causes you to lose your Charisma modifier to your Armor Class.

The nature version effects CMD, which the Lore version does not (explicitly called out in a FAQ), but Lore adds to reflex saves, which Nature does not (by omission).

Nature does not have the "Your armor’s maximum Dexterity bonus applies to your Charisma instead of your Dexterity" clause. Is this an oversight, or can you stack your CHA bonus with restrictive armors? It would seems reasonable that you couldn't, but the wording of the revelations is deliberately different in some respects, which gives me doubt.

Yorrin
2011-08-02, 01:33 PM
As a DM I'd rule it was still restricted by armor due to it specifically replacing Dex. But I can certainly see it going the other way. In other words- ask your DM.

Yora
2011-08-02, 02:08 PM
I agree here.
Except that I would allow the full Cha-Bonus to be added to AC, regardless of the Maximum Dexterity bonus to Armor Class. The letters of the ability say the limitation does not apply to Charisma. However, there are good reasons why a GM should still enforce the limit.

ericgrau
2011-08-02, 05:44 PM
Ya seems more like an oversight. Deepwarden had the same thing going on.

Hmmm... so massive reflex saves or a massive CMD. I'd go reflex saves and cast freedom of movement. Either your str or your cha won't be that high anyway so it's not like your CMDs will be untouchable. Reflex would be though. Then you grab a ring of evasion unless there's a 1 level dip for it somewhere.