List of problem spells? [3.5/PF]

[Bovine Colonel]

Is there a comprehensive list of 3.5/PF spells that make Tier 1s Tier 1?

Sorry if someone's already made a thread like this.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Well there is the obvious Polymorph line and Shapechange. Gate is another one that kills campaigns, and then there are things like Greater Plane Shift, Mind Rape.

[Aricandor]

Planar Binding can be cheesed before Gate enters play (also cheesable).

Anything that fiddles with the action economy (Celerity).

Really though, T1 is less about the game breaker spells and more about the ability to tailor their class abilities (spell loadout) to perfectly meet any challenge. Whether the spells they use to do so are cheesable or not isn't really important. You don't need any of the cheesable spells to be a god wizard. :smallsmile:

To take a T1 down on the scale (I'm assuming this is the ultimate purpose of this exercise :smallsmile:) you'd have to gut the relevant spell lists, like "only one single spell school available" levels, and even then some schools are broad enough that you can still make a passable god wizard out of it.

[NeoSeraphi]

Another powerful one is mind fog, in my opinion. Basically creates a cloud that allows your foes one Will save, and if they fail it, they're going to fail every other Will save you throw at them. (-10 penalty on all Will saves, Will Negates). It's a 5th level spell, and it breaks encounters apart.

Heal is another very powerful spell, and I certainly don't think that the cleric or druid would be as complete without it (though whether removing it completely would drop their tier is debatable at best and ridiculous at worse)

For lower level spells, haste, slow and fly are all incredibly potent, as well as invisibility.

[Dragonsoul]

I've Always felt that Contigency is the worst of them, its the spell that means you can't just place a +5 Flaming Shocking Icy Burst bolt in his head from the fifth Range Increment.

[Retech]

In Pathfinder, Terrible Remorse (or something of a name to that nature).

Even if the opponent saves, they still lose their action. Spamming that from a wand to make any BBEG completely paralyzed while your party wails on it is pretty broken.

[Kornilios]

Liveoak:You can built an army with just a spell
Planar binding/Gate:Even without the wish loop,can be rediculous powerfull
Wish:Not the spell itself,but if you can find ways to get free wishes can be really gamebreaking.
Shapechange:Should open a new thread about it's possibilities

That's the first come to my mind.But even if you ban them a t1 class can easily break down your game.It's almost imposible to make lower down t1 classes and still be fun for the player.

[Malimar]

Also: Shivering Touch, the dragon-ender. :smallyuk:

[Scorpions__]

Is there a list of these spells that have been pointed out as troublesome kicking around somewhere?







DM[F]R

[Tvtyrant]

Look up the spells banned by the Test of Spite for a comprehensive list of what breaks the game. Doc Roc knows his work.

[Ernir]

Here's one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10567646&postcount=11) I made a few months ago for the PHB.

And yeah, the ToS had quite a few.

[NNescio]

Another powerful one is mind fog, in my opinion. Basically creates a cloud that allows your foes one Will save, and if they fail it, they're going to fail every other Will save you throw at them. (-10 penalty on all Will saves, Will Negates). It's a 5th level spell, and it breaks encounters apart.

Heal is another very powerful spell, and I certainly don't think that the cleric or druid would be as complete without it (though whether removing it completely would drop their tier is debatable at best and ridiculous at worse)

For lower level spells, haste, slow and fly are all incredibly potent, as well as invisibility.

Mind Fog suffers from the limitations of most Enchantment spells. It's also not that useful unless precast since you'll probably better off popping a standard Will-save or Suck to those who have low Will saves anyway, and against creatures with high Will saves you might as well just target a different save instead.

There's a reason why it is absent from both the Batman and God Wizard guides. Feeblemind is generally better, despite being only single-target.

Mind you, it's still a strong spell for BBEGs who have domination spells. Not so much for players though, unless the party is heavily loaded with casters.

[Ernir]

Hmm, Mind Fog is probably a very good Invisible Spell candidate.

If we assume that you manage to stay hidden during the casting, the only RAW way I know of to identify that you're actually standing in a Mind Fog effect would be a DC 30 (25 + spell level) spellcraft check. Could be a cool pre-battle trick.

But hardly on the list of the biggest 3.5 problem spells.

[Jack_Simth]

Another powerful one is mind fog, in my opinion. Basically creates a cloud that allows your foes one Will save, and if they fail it, they're going to fail every other Will save you throw at them. (-10 penalty on all Will saves, Will Negates). It's a 5th level spell, and it breaks encounters apart.
Ah... against large numbers of mooks, sure... but you don't take the -10 to the Will save on the initial spell, so vs. Single opponents, one-shot showstoppers like Feeblemind, Dominate Person, or Hold Monster are more useful.

And, of course, with large hordes of mooks, you might as well use Cone of Cold or some such.



Heal is another very powerful spell, and I certainly don't think that the cleric or druid would be as complete without it (though whether removing it completely would drop their tier is debatable at best and ridiculous at worse)
It's a nice spell, but it's no gamebreaker. Healing is hard to make break the game.