Jedi Combat Forms via DnD 3.5

[Zonugal]

So upon my quest to adapt Star Wars into DnD 3.5 I seek your critique and ideas regarding the seven lightsaber forms as demonstrated within the films & literature.

Right now I am using this as the base for lightsabers.

Basic Model Lightsaber ($11,350 gp or $2,769 with a dedicated Lightsaber crafter)
Sunsword with the Sonic, Focus and Deflecting enchantments with a Lesser Crystal of Return coupled with a Glove of the Master Strategist.
A +1, Masterwork Bastard Sword (treated as a Short Sword whenever advantageous) which does a extra 1d4 points of sonic damage on a successful hit and bestows a +4 insight bonus to the wielder's Iaijutsu focus checks while carrying the weapon, even if the weapon is sheathed. The lightsaber may be drawn as a free action and you may call it to your hand from 30ft away as a move action. In addition you can try to knock projectiles aimed at you out of the air. Once per round when you would normally be hit by a ranged weapon, you may make a DC 20 Reflex saving throw (if the ranged weapon has a magical enhancement bonus, the DC increases by that amount). If you succeed, the ranged weapon or projectile deflects away harmlessly. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed. Intrinsically connected to the Lightsaber is the mystical handling glove which allows you to store and retrieve held items into the glove as free actions as well as activate True Strike 1/day.

With a dedicated lightsaber crafter we can knock that price from $11,350 to
$2,769 by using the Extraordinary Artisan, Magical Artisan (Craft Arms & Armor), Apprentice (Craftsman) and Blazing Forge planar touchstone feats in addition to restricting it to only those with a rank in Knowledge (Religion) and those of the Ardent Class (I'm just selecting for all practical intentions).

$7,750 gp / 50% (3,875 gp) = 3,875 gp / 30% (1,162 gp) = 2, 713 gp / 25% (678 gp) = 2,035 gp / 25% (508 gp) = 1,527 gp / 10% (152 gp) = 1,375 gp / 10% (137 gp) = 1,238 gp

$3,600 gp / 30% (1,080 gp) = 2,520 gp / 25% (630 gp) = 1,890 gp /10% (189 gp) = 1,701 gp /10% (170 gp) = 1,531 gp

Form 1
The basics of lightsaber combat comprised of attack, parry and bodyzone strikes. It is used primarily for training new Jedi in the use of the lightsaber.
Knowledge Devotion, Psionic Weapon, Greater Psionic Weapon

Form 2
The perfect form for lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat and studied by almost every Jedi. Form II maximizes precision whilst minimizing movement so as not to tire the dueller.
Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Einhander

Form 3
This form was developed specifically to counter the threat from laser blasts. As laser blasters spread throughout the galaxy Jedi had to learn to deflect/reflect laser blasts whilst offering the smallest possible target area. From this Form III was born.
Combat Expertise, Stand Still, Improved Combat Expertise

Form 4
The most acrobatic of all the lightsaber combat forms. Practitioners of Form IV took lightsaber combat to incredible new levels with amazing displays of physical prowess that were beyond anybody else. Watching a Form IV Jedi in battle would be difficult because of their ability to leap, spin, jump and fight in all 3 axis.
Dodge, Mobility, Elusive Target

Form 5
As the demand on the Jedi to maintain peace and order grew a more aggressive Form was needed for use in combat. Form V was designed to not only deflect laser blasts but also deflect them back on the attacker. Strength and strong lightsaber attacks feature heavily in this form which was favoured more by some Jedi than others.
Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Combat Brute

Form 6
A combination of Forms I, II, III, IV and V. Often referred to as the "diplomats form" this particular style of combat relied less upon combative movement and more upon allowing Jedi time to study diplomacy, galactic politics and their Jedi perception. Considered a lesser form by some Jedi masters it proved to be very popular amongst many Jedi knights.
Sacred Vow, Vow of Peace and Vow of Nonviolence.

Form 7
The ultimate form of lightsaber combat which combines the raw strength of Form V with the graceful movement of Form IV. Only advanced Jedi masters such as Mace Windu can use this form effectively due to the huge emotions involvedin wielding it. Such is the emotional involvement that many Jedi refuse to study Form VII because it comes too close to the Dark Side of the force. Force assisted jumps and other movements feature heavily in Form VII as do series of sudden, seemingly unrelated, movements. A form VII practitioner will appear utterly calm on the surface but inside is a seething cauldron of emotions.
Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical, Robilar’s Gambit

Ideas? Thoughts?

[Ajadea]

Form 3 does not have Deflect Arrows?

[Martin Greywolf]

No offense, but that doesn´t look like a lightsaber at all.

Just slap brilliant energy on it, change the ignore matter and use adamantine rules against objects, and call it a day. Remember, pulling it, throwing and returning it, deflectiong bolts and so on isn´t the function of a lightsaber, it´s the force. In normal hands, it´s just cool sword that can cut anything.

If you want to simulate defending and throwing, use defending, throwing and returning properties on it.

And maybe vorpal, that depends on taste and if you want your bad guys going down on well-timed crits...

[Zonugal]

Form 3 does not have Deflect Arrows?

The weapon itself sort of possess the Deflect Arrow quality so I felt it was a bit redundant. I also, to a degree, wanted to stay focused on blade-based combat within the forms.


No offense, but that doesn´t look like a lightsaber at all.

Just slap brilliant energy on it, change the ignore matter and use adamantine rules against objects, and call it a day. Remember, pulling it, throwing and returning it, deflectiong bolts and so on isn´t the function of a lightsaber, it´s the force. In normal hands, it´s just cool sword that can cut anything.

If you want to simulate defending and throwing, use defending, throwing and returning properties on it.

And maybe vorpal, that depends on taste and if you want your bad guys going down on well-timed crits...

Brilliant energy doesn't work as it goes right through constructs and while you could ignore that clause I might as well start homebrew everything (I'm attempting to stick to the rules). The other problem with adding so many other enchantments is that, in addition to the pricing going so high, we hit the +5 quickly on the weapon. Although I might look into applying the adamantine quality.

But once more, what do people think of the combat forms (and not the lightsaber).

[Amnestic]

deflectiong bolts and so on isn´t the function of a lightsaber, it´s the force.

Lightsabers can deflect blaster bolts as part of their technology. It's just hard to do without Force-granted reflexes - though decidedly not impossible. There is a force power to deflect blaster bolts without a lightsaber though.

[Immonen]

And we're not using this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Roleplaying_Game_%28Wizards_of_the_Coast %29) because?...

[Zonugal]

And we're not using this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Roleplaying_Game_%28Wizards_of_the_Coast %29) because?...

Ahaha I knew that was going to be brought up sooner or later. I am pretty experienced with that system, but every once in a while someone asks for a Jedi to be made in DnD 3.5 so I simply wish to build a resource for that particular pop-culture adaptation.

[Tvtyrant]

I would probably represent a Jedi with a Psywarrior/Incarnate using Incarnate Weapon myself.

[Zonugal]

I would probably represent a Jedi with a Psywarrior/Incarnate using Incarnate Weapon myself.

And regarding the combat forms?

[The Glyphstone]

What are the combat forms? Are they just RP suggestions for replicating a specific style? Are they 'uberfeats' in that you take a 'Combat Form Feat' and get the benefits of the three listed feats? I'm not sure how to comment on them when I don't know what they do mechanically.

[nightwyrm]

Wouldn't make more sense to use a ToB discipline type of system for something like this?

[Zonugal]

What are the combat forms? Are they just RP suggestions for replicating a specific style? Are they 'uberfeats' in that you take a 'Combat Form Feat' and get the benefits of the three listed feats? I'm not sure how to comment on them when I don't know what they do mechanically.

They are merely styles of lightsaber combat as utilized in the films/literature. Count Dooku was a master of style 2, Mace Windu of style 7, ect...

They're just flavorful styles of combat styles so I'm just looking for appropriate feats to match that style.

[Rogue Shadows]

Remember, pulling it, throwing and returning it, deflectiong bolts and so on isn´t the function of a lightsaber, it´s the force.

Actually the deflecting bolts part is something any lightsaber can do. Typically only Jedi have the reflexes necessary to pull it off, but theoretically anyone or anything could. Droids, most certainly.

[hamishspence]

Actually the deflecting bolts part is something any lightsaber can do. Typically only Jedi have the reflexes necessary to pull it off, but theoretically anyone or anything could. Droids, most certainly.

Indeed- and it's mentioned as a Crowning Moment of Awesome in the Star Wars comics:


•In Nomad, Darca Nyl deflected blaster bolt with lightsaber. Seems mundane? Darca Nyl is not a Jedi, is not a force-sensitive, and has no lightsaber training whatsoever. He did it on pure reflex.

[Person_Man]

I have two different homebrew Jedi-ish classes, the Force Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92407) and the War Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156441). You may wish to look at them for ideas.

The deflect ability as you have written it is way too potent, in that it doesn't require an action and the DC 20 Reflex Save is fixed. You may wish to consider something similar to the mechanics I included in my homebrew classes, such as:

You may attempt to block a ranged attack (including ranged touch attacks, such as rays) as an immediate action. If you choose to use this ability, you must declare that you are using it after your enemy successfully hits but before the DM announces damage or effects of the attack. Make a melee attack roll (including any bonuses from essentia invested in the soul weapon). If your modified attack roll is higher then the enemy’s modified attack roll, the attack is negated. If your modified attack roll is 5 points higher then your enemy’s modified attack roll, then the attack is deflected against the enemy. Resolve the attack against the enemy’s AC as if the enemy had attacked themselves.

I also agree with the assertion that if you're going to have a light saber as a weapon (and not a class feature) then it shouldn't start out with all the Force abilities. You may wish to use or create a homebrew Jedi class, or you could make it a homebrew Weapon of Legacy, giving various lightsaber-ish powers as the player gains levels in exchange for an investment on the part of the player.

[Rogue Shadows]

Why not just adapt the Deflect (defense) and Deflect (attack) abilities from the Star Wars Revised Core Rulebook?

...hang on, I'll copy the relevant abilities from the RCR's Jedi Guardian class, though I'll change Defense to Armor Class.

Deflect (Defense)
A Jedi learns to deflect blaster bolts and other projectiles with her lightsaber, thereby providing a dodge bonus to Armor Class against such attacks. You mst be carrying an activated lightsaber to use this special ability.

Deflecting an attack is a reaction that costs the Jedi a move action in her next round. The Jedi must indicate that she is using deflect (defense) when an opponent delcares an attack against her but before any attack rolls are made. When used in this fashion, the Jedi gains the dodge bonus against all ranged attacks directed at her in the round.

Each time the Jedi gains deflect (defense), it provides a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class when she uses her lightsaber to block ranged attacks. So, at 1st level the dodge bonus to AC is +1, at 9th level it increases to +2, at 13th level it increases to +3, and at 17th level it increases to +4.

Deflect (attack)
A Jedi learns to deflect blaster bolts with her lightsaber, redirecting the attack toward a target within one range increment of the Jedi's position (the type of blaster determines the range increment). You must be carrying an activated lightsaber to use this special ability.

Deflecting and redirecting an attack is a reaction that costs the Jedi a move action in her next round. The Jedi must indicate that she is using deflect (attack) when an opponent declares an attack against her but before any attack rolls are made. Deflect (defense) and Deflect (attack) can be used together in the same round (though the Jedi can decide not to use the defense if she wants a better chance at redirecting the incoming attack).

The Jedi can deflect and redirect a number of attacks equal to one-half her Jedi level, rounded up. THe redirected attack must miss the Jedi by 5 or less; any attack that hits the Jedi or misses by 6 or more points can't be redirected.

If the Jedi can redirect the attack, the Jedi immediately rolls an attack using her lightsaber attack bonus and applying a -4 penalty as described below. If this roll is high enough to hit the target, the redirected attack deals damage to the target (the type of blater determines the damage dealt by a redirected attack).

Each time the Jedi gains deflect (attack), the penalty associated with the redirected attack is lessened by 1. So, at 3rd level the penalty is -4, at 11th level --3, at 16th level -2, and at 19th level -1.

Shouldn't be too hard to adapt that to something...

[Zonugal]

So perhaps we got lost somewhere from the initial post to where we are now. What I am requesting in this thread, and only requesting, are critiques and thoughts regarding the combat form feats, not anything else. If you think, for example, there is a better feat to represent Dooku's duelist style of lightsaber combat than Einhander I would love to hear it and beyond but let us try not to immediately delve into discussing homebrew Jedi classes or the mechanics of the lightsaber weapon.


Wouldn't make more sense to use a ToB discipline type of system for something like this?

This will become more evident when I construct the 'build skeleton' (there will more than likely be ToB classes in the form of quick dips).

What I am attempting to do is to establish a three-feat-system to represent becoming a novice, experienced and master in a particular combat style. The feats could certainly work in conjunction with ToB discipline styles but I wanted to stick to feats right now as they work rather well for rigidly defining a combat style (while keeping it simple).

[Kaje]

I'm rather fond of this homebrew class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169532), using the already established fluff and some of the mechanics of incarnum. Add one level of incarnum blade if you really need the sword to glow.

Ooh, and gestalt this baby with a swordsage/bloodstorm blade and you've got one seriously badass Jedi.

[The Glyphstone]

So perhaps we got lost somewhere from the initial post to where we are now. What I am requesting in this thread, and only requesting, are critiques and thoughts regarding the combat form feats, not anything else. If you think, for example, there is a better feat to represent Dooku's duelist style of lightsaber combat than Einhander I would love to hear it and beyond but let us try not to immediately delve into discussing homebrew Jedi classes or the mechanics of the lightsaber weapon.



This will become more evident when I construct the 'build skeleton' (there will more than likely be ToB classes in the form of quick dips).

What I am attempting to do is to establish a three-feat-system to represent becoming a novice, experienced and master in a particular combat style. The feats could certainly work in conjunction with ToB discipline styles but I wanted to stick to feats right now as they work rather well for rigidly defining a combat style (while keeping it simple).

In that case, I'd question the purpose of Form VI (Niman) (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VI:_Niman), or your interpretation of it. As written, it becomes the 'pacifist's form', because all it does is prevent you from actually using your lightsaber in fights. Form VI is the Dual-saber style, so it would be better representing with those feats:
Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Defense, Double Hit perhaps.

[Thalnawr]

The Hero's Guide (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hero's_Guide) has the relevant info for lightsaber combat forms as feats for the D20 Star Wars game. If you want, I can PM you the relevant information, so you can homebrew something you like from it. Most of the forms are pretty lame, however, except for Form IV.

Or you could use the info from Saga edition, which has the forms as well, somewhere in there.

[Zonugal]

In that case, I'd question the purpose of Form VI (Niman) (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VI:_Niman), or your interpretation of it. As written, it becomes the 'pacifist's form', because all it does is prevent you from actually using your lightsaber in fights. Form VI is the Dual-saber style, so it would be better representing with those feats:
Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Defense, Double Hit perhaps.

I think the problem is that Form VI has two different styles within itself. To one degree it is known as the diplomat's style focusing on mediation and ending conflicts through diplomacy. But you bring up a fair point regarding the dual-saber style. From reading the history it would seem as if it began as a two-weapon fighting style but evolved/progressed into the diplomat's form. I feel because of the investment necessary in two-weapon fighting it might be easier to allocate it to the Jar'Kai (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Niman/Jar%27Kai) style of combat (perhaps offering it as a sub-school style or secondary focus for more martially minded Jedi characters).

What about something like this for Jar'Kai?
Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Rend

And concerning the diplomat's form do you think there might be a better path? Maybe using the combat focus feats? Something like Combat Focus, Combat Vigor, Combat Awareness?

[The Glyphstone]

I'd use Two-Weapon Defense instead of Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, if simply because improved defensive ability was one of the trademark benefits of dual-saber style. TWF/TWD/TWR is a good set though.

As for the Diplomat's style, the Combat Focus feats could be a good substitute, though I'd use Combat Focus, Combat Stability or Combat Defense, and Combat Awareness. Combat Vigor may be generally mechanically superior, but healing wounds feels a bit off with regards to a lightsaber fighting style.

[Retech]

Form 2 seems to be more about weapon finesse. Perhaps get some sort of homebrew Dervish dance for this?

[Zonugal]

I'd use Two-Weapon Defense instead of Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, if simply because improved defensive ability was one of the trademark benefits of dual-saber style. TWF/TWD/TWR is a good set though.

As for the Diplomat's style, the Combat Focus feats could be a good substitute, though I'd use Combat Focus, Combat Stability or Combat Defense, and Combat Awareness. Combat Vigor may be generally mechanically superior, but healing wounds feels a bit off with regards to a lightsaber fighting style.

My concern with Two-Weapon Defense is the bonus it provides (+1 shield bonus to AC) isn't good enough as to overcome the advantages of something like Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. But I see where you are coming from. I'm still deciding if I want to expand the forms into something akin to how the Monk combat styles are set up with two options at each level (beginner, advanced and master; but unlike the monk the Jedi would still have to meet all the perquisites).

Regarding the Diplomat's style I've been trying to nail down how to properly represent it. It isn't a very combat-heavy form and would seem rather focused on ending conflicts as soon as possible through negotiation. I think the Combat Focus feats are cool but don't know if they match up with the goals of Form IV...


I'm rather fond of this homebrew class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169532), using the already established fluff and some of the mechanics of incarnum. Add one level of incarnum blade if you really need the sword to glow.

Ooh, and gestalt this baby with a swordsage/bloodstorm blade and you've got one seriously badass Jedi.

The Hero's Guide (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hero's_Guide) has the relevant info for lightsaber combat forms as feats for the D20 Star Wars game. If you want, I can PM you the relevant information, so you can homebrew something you like from it. Most of the forms are pretty lame, however, except for Form IV.

Or you could use the info from Saga edition, which has the forms as well, somewhere in there.

Form 2 seems to be more about weapon finesse. Perhaps get some sort of homebrew Dervish dance for this?

As noted before I am not using any homebrew material and staying within the confines of DnD 3.5. I do possess nearly all the Star Wars d20 books so I can take a peak at the Hero's Guide to for some inspiration but that is pretty all I can take from it.

But Retech I'll look into Weapon Finesse for Form 2, I'll see how it works in conjunction with the other feats.

[The Glyphstone]

Regarding the Diplomat's style I've been trying to nail down how to properly represent it. It isn't a very combat-heavy form and would seem rather focused on ending conflicts as soon as possible through negotiation. I think the Combat Focus feats are cool but don't know if they match up with the goals of Form IV...


From the Wookiepedia article, it's not that it is a combat-light form so much as it's the most balanced form, the jack-of-all-trades combat style. Since it only requires you to be decent at everything, rather than exceptional at anything, it's a less practice-intensive form and that's where the extra time for noncombat skills and negotiation come in. When the blasters actually come out, a practictioner of Form VI isn't going to be making any less effort at defeating his enemies than another form's user would be.

[Zonugal]

From the Wookiepedia article, it's not that it is a combat-light form so much as it's the most balanced form, the jack-of-all-trades combat style. Since it only requires you to be decent at everything, rather than exceptional at anything, it's a less practice-intensive form and that's where the extra time for noncombat skills and negotiation come in. When the blasters actually come out, a practictioner of Form VI isn't going to be making any less effort at defeating his enemies than another form's user would be.

Hmm... Very good point. So there are two ideas that pop up in my mind regarding what you illustrated above. The first is sticking with the Combat Focus line of feats (which stays in similar array to the other style's progression of feats) while the other would be to take the basic feats of some styles and apply them to Form VI. Something akin to: Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes (maybe Knowledge Devotion instead).

Thoughts?

[The Glyphstone]

That'd work too, actually.

[Zonugal]

Okay so it looks like we have Form IV down pretty solidly.

Any thoughts regarding the other ones?

[DMVerdandi]

So upon my quest to adapt Star Wars into DnD 3.5 I seek your critique and ideas regarding the seven lightsaber forms as demonstrated within the films & literature.

Right now I am using this as the base for lightsabers.

I would pick and choose between things from the Star Wars Rulebook, and Dungeons and Dragons rules.

Foor such a thing, I would just take the lightsaber from there.
It is thematically perfect.
As for the cost, that is fine.




Form 1
The basics of lightsaber combat comprised of attack, parry and bodyzone strikes. It is used primarily for training new Jedi in the use of the lightsaber.
Knowledge Devotion, Psionic Weapon, Greater Psionic Weapon

Form 2
The perfect form for lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat and studied by almost every Jedi. Form II maximizes precision whilst minimizing movement so as not to tire the dueller.
Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Einhander

Form 3
This form was developed specifically to counter the threat from laser blasts. As laser blasters spread throughout the galaxy Jedi had to learn to deflect/reflect laser blasts whilst offering the smallest possible target area. From this Form III was born.
Combat Expertise, Stand Still, Improved Combat Expertise

Form 4
The most acrobatic of all the lightsaber combat forms. Practitioners of Form IV took lightsaber combat to incredible new levels with amazing displays of physical prowess that were beyond anybody else. Watching a Form IV Jedi in battle would be difficult because of their ability to leap, spin, jump and fight in all 3 axis.
Dodge, Mobility, Elusive Target

Form 5
As the demand on the Jedi to maintain peace and order grew a more aggressive Form was needed for use in combat. Form V was designed to not only deflect laser blasts but also deflect them back on the attacker. Strength and strong lightsaber attacks feature heavily in this form which was favoured more by some Jedi than others.
Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Combat Brute

Form 6
A combination of Forms I, II, III, IV and V. Often referred to as the "diplomats form" this particular style of combat relied less upon combative movement and more upon allowing Jedi time to study diplomacy, galactic politics and their Jedi perception. Considered a lesser form by some Jedi masters it proved to be very popular amongst many Jedi knights.
Sacred Vow, Vow of Peace and Vow of Nonviolence.

Form 7
The ultimate form of lightsaber combat which combines the raw strength of Form V with the graceful movement of Form IV. Only advanced Jedi masters such as Mace Windu can use this form effectively due to the huge emotions involvedin wielding it. Such is the emotional involvement that many Jedi refuse to study Form VII because it comes too close to the Dark Side of the force. Force assisted jumps and other movements feature heavily in Form VII as do series of sudden, seemingly unrelated, movements. A form VII practitioner will appear utterly calm on the surface but inside is a seething cauldron of emotions.
Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical, Robilar’s Gambit

Ideas? Thoughts?

Call them Jedi feats, and have them increase as feat trees.

Jedi level 1 gets you the first bonus feat from the school feat.

Jedi level 3 gets you the second.

Jedi level 5 gets you the third.


Have the jedi get 3 style feats as a bonus.
One at 5, 10, and 15.



Another alternative is making the jedi into an initiator, with seven schools being the forms, with the eighth being force powers. Make the force powers give a backlash, with each one do a point of non-lethal damage, per maneuver level.

More work, more awesome, IMO.
Some would argue that force powers wouldn't work as maneuvers, and would be better suited for psionics.
I say that the force isn't so easy to translate, AS ONE THING.

In a fully immersive D20, 3.5D&D homebrew, it would be even better to recognize the force as the foundation for all supernatural skills.

Spells, Psionics, Ki, the whole nine.
Just reflavor as needed.

Use Ur-priest as sith.
Give the sith a holocron, which adds all spells to the "sith" spell list, so long as the holocron is in a 60 foot proximity to the sith.


Cleric itself could be the foundation for jedi ACF (trade aura, spontaneous casting, and turn undead for good BAB, All good saves, and, jedi style feats)


And Psionics could be the force adept, representing the raw, unworked force.

That would be sick.




Actually, I would just stick with the feats, and do the sith/jedi/force adept classes as prestige classes.

Sith= Ur-priest + Gain holocron at level 1 (Adds all spells to spell list, and grants lore). One level of force adept added to requirements. Levels of force adept are traded in for sith levels

Jedi = Cleric PRC with changes to BAB,SAVES, and gains style feats every 3 levels. Requirement = one level of force adept class. Levels of force adept are traded in for Jedi levels.

Force adept = Wilder class.

All Lightsaber style feats require 1 level of force adept.
The crystal for the lightsaber acts as a psi-crystal which uses your jedi, sith, and or force manifester levels to show amount of advancement it has.

Why did I change the source of all of the powers?
1. Force adept represents the user understanding the force as a purely internal power.

2. Jedi represents an understanding of the force as a divine presence, which is universal and alive, and can grant much power to someone who studies the force as a religion.

3.The sith represents a force user who subjugates the universal powers, and binds them under his own understanding. That is why it casts as an arcane ur-priest, because it isn't stealing power from a deity, but placing itself higher than the prime force, an unnatural thing.

[Zonugal]

Ugh...

I am not using homebrew or anything beyond purely DnD 3.5 This is purely a request to look at the feats as correlating with the combat styles.

Please stop posting homebrew or any off-topic matters.

[DMVerdandi]

Ugh...

I am not using homebrew or anything beyond purely DnD 3.5 This is purely a request to look at the feats as correlating with the combat styles.

Please stop posting homebrew or any off-topic matters.

Oh... That wasn't clear, since your lightsaber is infact a custom item.
Anyhow... yeah, that isn't the best then...

Like others have said, brilliant weapon works fine.

Form one.
These things are... mostly granted by attack options.
In the DMG, there are options for attacking different body parts.
Secondarily, the feat that most exemplfies it is weapon focus.


Form 2
Power attack

Form 3
Combat expertise

Form 4
Combat acrobatics

Form 5
Pushback

Form 6
Persuasive

Form 7
Reckless charge


And BTW,
A lightsaber is best shown as a

+1, keen, sizing, sure striking, burning, mighty cleaving,deflecting, HIDEAWAY, Longsword.


"Ugh" please...
Im just trying to help:smallannoyed:

[Zonugal]

Oh... That wasn't clear, since your lightsaber is infact a custom item.
Anyhow... yeah, that isn't the best then...

Like others have said, brilliant weapon works fine.

Custom items aren't homebrew as they follow the exact outlines of crafting magic items. It can even be said that the weapon isn't a custom item as it is merely attaching enchantments onto an already established item.

As it has been noted brilliant energy reads nicely on paper but fails in the practical sense as they cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects. If anything making the weapon out of adamantine would work better (a suggestion I have considered).


And BTW,
A lightsaber is best shown as a

+1, keen, sizing, sure striking, burning, mighty cleaving,deflecting, HIDEAWAY, Longsword.


"Ugh" please...
Im just trying to help:smallannoyed:

I guess it is time for us to argue about a fictional weapon (even though several posts on the first page from myself indicate that the only focus of the thread is the combat styles/forms).

Mighty Cleaving is a pretty awful enchantment, Sizing makes no sense from a thematic/flavor perspective as lightsabers were pretty fixed in their sizes/forms/height, Keen is wasted to a degree on Longswords, Sure Striking is practically useful but one wonders if a lightsaber could truly cut through alignment-based protections as opposed to natural-based ones [Metalline might be a better enchantment then], and Hide-away is a lot more expensive than what the Glove of the Master Strategist provides.

Your lightsaber is much more expensive while providing little, substantial upgrades to the model I'm using in this theoretical adaptation of Star Wars into DnD 3.5

So perhaps we can move onto the topic at heart, the combat forms/styles and the proper feats to help actualize those.

[DMVerdandi]

Custom items aren't homebrew as they follow the exact outlines of crafting magic items. It can even be said that the weapon isn't a custom item as it is merely attaching enchantments onto an already established item.
Granted.


As it has been noted brilliant energy reads nicely on paper but fails in the practical sense as they cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects. If anything making the weapon out of adamantine would work better (a suggestion I have considered).

Eh...


I guess it is time for us to argue about a fictional weapon (even though several posts on the first page from myself indicate that the only focus of the thread is the combat styles/forms).

Mighty Cleaving is a pretty awful enchantment,
Sure, but we are going for thematics, not TO.
Mighty Cleaving represents the ability to hit multiple enemies in an attack phase.



Sizing makes no sense from a thematic/flavor perspective as lightsabers were pretty fixed in their sizes/forms/height,
Incorrect.
On lightsabers, there is an adjust blade length setting.
It's adjustable.
If you had read some of the source books, they show lightsabers that are larger to allow for larger power packs, giving the blade a longer thicker size.


Keen is wasted to a degree on Longswords,
Thematics.


Sure Striking is practically useful but one wonders if a lightsaber could truly cut through alignment-based protections as opposed to natural-based ones [Metalline might be a better enchantment then],
Agreed, but one must remember that the lightsabers are in a way aligned to the user. Sure striking could be changed with axiomatic,holy,unholy,or chaotic.
Just used it as a placeholder.

Metaline is a good idea though.


and Hide-away is a lot more expensive than what the Glove of the Master Strategist provides.

Your lightsaber is much more expensive while providing little, substantial upgrades to the model I'm using in this theoretical adaptation of Star Wars into DnD 3.5
Yes, but glove of the master strategist does not actually turn the weapon back into a metal tube, which is what happens to a lightsaber, no?
The blade goes back into the hilt.
Thematics are most important here. Working with the most similar idea.

Yours is stronger, but thematically contradictory.



So perhaps we can move onto the topic at heart, the combat forms/styles and the proper feats to help actualize those.
Posted those already.

[Zonugal]

Perhaps a revision is in order. I am not trying to build an exact lightsaber (as we can't... DnD 3.5 simply does not possess any abilities, in any conjunction, to imitate it) so I am settling on my cheap, basic version.

Regarding your recommendation towards combat feats let me expand on my hope towards them. With each combat style I am setting up three feats to form the tiers of beginner, advanced and master. This lets us space feast apart (entry, some that require more prerequisite feats and typically a capstone one that has a higher BaB or feat requirements).

Having read through your recommendations, DMVerdandi, could you explain some of your choices and maybe extrapolate from there what other feats you might choose to couple them with (as to create that tier system for each combat style)?

[DMVerdandi]

Perhaps a revision is in order. I am not trying to build an exact lightsaber (as we can't... DnD 3.5 simply does not possess any abilities, in any conjunction, to imitate it) so I am settling on my cheap, basic version.

Regarding your recommendation towards combat feats let me expand on my hope towards them. With each combat style I am setting up three feats to form the tiers of beginner, advanced and master. This lets us space feast apart (entry, some that require more prerequisite feats and typically a capstone one that has a higher BaB or feat requirements).

Having read through your recommendations, DMVerdandi, could you explain some of your choices and maybe extrapolate from there what other feats you might choose to couple them with (as to create that tier system for each combat style)?


Hmm...

Okay,

Form one
1.Weapon focus- Emphasizes the initial focus on lightsaber combat.
Basic strikes already exist in the combat options.
Gives you +1 on attacks.

2.Combat focus.
Is similar to battle meditation. Gives you a form where your focus overrides your limits.
Gives you +2 to will saves after a successful attack, for ten rounds.

3.Blind fight.
Exemplifies the jedi using the force to see where his attack goes, rather than attacking. We see the younglings learn how to use this with training helmets.



Form two

1.Improved Disarm
Shows Form two's aptitude in disarming the opponent's lightsaber with attacks.

2. Combat strike
Represent's the amount of focus that can be maintained to make a precise strike. Burns combat focus for +1/amount of combat form feats.

3. Combat Stability
Represents the offensive defense. One who becomes a pillar of solidarity and power.
Gives +4 On resisting bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, and trip.
+8 if you have three or more combat form feats.


Form 3.
1.Combat expertise.
Represents the reduction of offensive powers for defensive ones.
Up to +5 to ac for -5 BAB.

2.Dodge
Represents focus on evasive maneuvers.
+1 ac on selected target.

3.Defensive strike.
Represents the strength gained by focusing on defense.
When in the total defense phase, +4 to attack.


Form 4
1.Acrobatic strike.
Represents being able to gain a benefit from tumbling past an opponent.
+4 attack to an enemy when you avoid their attack of opportunity with tumble.

2. Combat acrobatics.
Represents the focus on acrobatics in form 4.
Gives tactical bonuses based on tumble and balance checks.

3. Cleave
Represents the wide, flowing strikes of form four, and their capacity to rip through enemies after one has been cut through.
Make an attack of opportunity against adjacent enemy after downing one.

Form 5
yours is fine...


Form 6
1.Persuasive.
Represents words being used as power.
Gives +2 to bluff and intimidate.

2.Negotiator
Represents the use of intellect and wisdom in coming to a conclusion with others.
+2 to diplomacy and sense motive

3.Leadership
Representing the jedi order, and it's order of command.
one gains a cohort (padawan), and followers (youngling students)


7.
1.Reckless charge
Represents the danger gained in using form seven's agressive, and seemingly wanton form.

-4 ac +4 to attack on charges

2.
Subduing Strike.
Much control is needed to keep from moving towards the dark side with form 7. Subduing strike represents the mindfulness and self-control within the frothing energy of the jedi.
One can do subdual damage with ANY weapon.

3.reckless offensive
Represents the further difficulty in mastering a style which uses unorthodox striking techniques which seem to forgo all defenses for powerful attacks.
-4 ac for +2 for all melee attacks

[crazyhedgewizrd]

dont use the jedi combat forms, let the player choose they own style of fighting.

[The Glyphstone]

DMV, there's a little problem in that all the Combat [X] feats have Combat Focus as a prereq, if I remember right.

[Zonugal]

dont use the jedi combat forms, let the player choose they own style of fighting.

That sort of goes against the whole nature of this thing, but thanks for trying???

[Thalnawr]

Are you using just standard WotC psionics stuff or are you venturing out into 3rd party like Untapped Potential and Hyperconscious?

If you are using Untapped Potential, you may want to look at Mantra feats, as a way to help simulate the combat forms.

[Zonugal]

Are you using just standard WotC psionics stuff or are you venturing out into 3rd party like Untapped Potential and Hyperconscious?

If you are using Untapped Potential, you may want to look at Mantra feats, as a way to help simulate the combat forms.

I'm sticking to straight WOTC material. I do plan on using psionics, actually with a base of Ardent and possibly used in conjunction with classes like Human Paragon, Warblade, Swordsage and prestige classes like Slayer.