experience running a "themed" party

[big teej]

to expand slightly,

a themed party in this instance is one where either

A) everyone plays the same class 1 - 20
or
B) everyone starts play with/must take x levels in the same class.

what is your experience (if any) in such a game?

would you be interested in such a game?

to elaborate slightly.

game type A would be (as an example)
lets say we had a 4 man group, and everyone played a fighter.
straight fighter, 1 - 20, no PRCs, but alternative class features and variants are acceptable.

the fighter allows enough leway to give us varying builds for the players, but keeps them within the same general capability.
charger, tripper, bullet soak, etc.

type B would be exampled by say....
everyone begins play/must take 5 levels in monk, and from there you may diversify however you see fit.


*let us assume for this discussion that the DM compensates for any gaps in a group: for instance, if group X lacks a front line beat stick, I will make allowences for the fact that they are less effective combatants, and tone down/de-emphasize combat accordingly.

[big teej]

to expand slightly,

a themed party in this instance is one where either

A) everyone plays the same class 1 - 20
or
B) everyone starts play with/must take x levels in the same class.

what is your experience (if any) in such a game?

would you be interested in such a game?

to elaborate slightly.

game type A would be (as an example)
lets say we had a 4 man group, and everyone played a fighter.
straight fighter, 1 - 20, no PRCs, but alternative class features and variants are acceptable.

the fighter allows enough leway to give us varying builds for the players, but keeps them within the same general capability.
charger, tripper, bullet soak, etc.

type B would be exampled by say....
everyone begins play/must take 5 levels in monk, and from there you may diversify however you see fit.


*let us assume for this discussion that the DM compensates for any gaps in a group: for instance, if group X lacks a front line beat stick, I will make allowences for the fact that they are less effective combatants, and tone down/de-emphasize combat accordingly.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If x is a class without healing, the party will rapidly TPK, if you hold to the four encounters per day model...

Any T1 class, and you can do it no problem. Any T2 class, and you should be able to. T3 and under classes would have problems. Monk or Fighter... yea, good luck with surviving your first level without DM intervention.

[Kefkafreak]

It could work, if instead of adventurers they were town guards or whatever, but I don't know how long you would be able to keep such a campaign interesting.

[flumphy]

If x is a class without healing, the party will rapidly TPK, if you hold to the four encounters per day model...

Any T1 class, and you can do it no problem. Any T2 class, and you should be able to. T3 and under classes would have problems. Monk or Fighter... yea, good luck with surviving your first level without DM intervention.

Depends on the T3 class. I played in an all-bard party awhile back, and we did okay. Everyone tried to fill a slightly different niche, so we actually had a lot of bases covered. I can see binder and maybe factotum working along that same vein as well.

And if you're only requiring a few levels of a class then letting people spread out, then I can see pretty much anything working with a competent DM tailoring encounters appropriately.

[Hazzardevil]

Well Bard gestalt games seem to be rather common.
Although really the best classes to run game like this with are ones that don't need any paticuler stats like binders and warlocks, they could probably do better than any other class sans druid with an 8 in every stat.

[TroubleBrewing]

I'm running a game currently that allowed only classes from ToB, Incarnum, or Psionic sources. It's working pretty well.

I've participated in a game where everyone was a 1st-level rogue, and then was free to do what they liked. That also went well.

All fighters? Do you HATE your players? :smallconfused:

[Xefas]

I ran a game where the party of four (later five) all had access to Vestiges on top of their normal class. However, they had to draw from the same 'pool' of Vestiges - so no two people could have the same Vestige bound at the same time. On top of that, they were always considered to have made a 'bad' pact.

Plot-wise, they were hunting down Vestiges which had broken free of their bonds and were rampaging about the Material Plane. Basically, their effective Binder level for the purposes of number/level of Vestiges capable of being bound was directly tied to how many they had recaptured. So, once they captured all the 2nd level Vestiges, they were considered 3rd level Binders, and when they captured all the 3rd level Vestiges, they were considered 5th level Binders, and so on.

We had a Wizard, Beguiler, Druid, Dread Necromancer, (and later, Crusader), so the added Vestige powers were just minor convenient bonuses most of the time. Still, we did get the occasional instance, for example, of the Wizard having used his last applicable spell for the day, the big ogre boss just knocked the Druid into negatives, the Beguiler is burnt out, the Necromancer is backing away ready to get clobbered, and the Wizard goes "Wait. I get a natural attack from Amon, right?", right before crit-headbutt-charging the ogre to death.

A moment of silence, and then...

"I've got 18 intelligence. Using my head is what I do."

[Hazzardevil]

All fighters? Do you HATE your players? :smallconfused:

Well gestalting Fighter on to just about anything makes it better, although it tends to give bigger bonuses to the weaker classes, so it isn't as bad as you think.
I've been told that if you take a group of monks, a group of fighters and a group of wizards through the same never-ending dungeon, the wizards die first and the monks die last.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Your idea is not so much a theme as let's-screw-party-diversity.

A themed party would be a Wilderness Rogue, a Savage Bard, a Swift Hunter, and a (shapeshift) Druid, and everyone would have Wild Cohort.

Or, a Dragonfire Adept, a Kobold Sorcerer, a Cleric who worships a dragon deity and has Dragonscale Husk, and a Dragonborn Factotum.

Maybe even a Human Cleric of Zarus, a Human Crusader/Divine Crusader of Zarus, a Human Rogue/Psion/Psychic Assassin who serves the Church of Zarus, and a Human Wizard who bends the world to the will of Zarus.

How about a Warblade/Reaping Mauler, a Tashalatora Ardent, an Unarmed Swordsage, and a Sacred Fist!

I could go on all day. The idea of a party of all the same class who all focus on completely different things and all play completely differently is no more themed than any other thrown-together party. My last example is far better themed than everyone-must-use-Monk-5, it actually looks like a gang you'd run into in a kung-fu movie, rather than everyone trying to make their characters good despite having five Monk levels.

As for whether I'd be interested in playing in such a game, only if the entire party played Wizards, Druids, or Clerics, and only if they could prestige/multiclass with minimal caster level loss to fill their chosen niche.

[marcielle]

I say you go B and give them access to Pathfinder monk and its variants. At least they are Tier 4 when well built.

Though really, having everyone start out as a tier 5 class mayyyy not be the best idea. You might have to tone it down to the point they are still fighting goblins at level 10.
I say pick a group(spontaneous caster, ToB martial classes, 'holy' classes). Not a single class. And definitely NOT Tier 5.
Sure you could compensate, but really, that would be a lot of guesswork.
You could very easily either make things too easy or TPK completely at random. CR is innacurate enough as it is.

If you ARE set on a single class, I suggest Bards.
They are VERY adaptable. Snowflake Wardancer, Dragonfire Inspirer, BARDBLADE(warblade bards are pretty good from what I hear), not to mention they have some PrCs which are pretty nice. They have Variants too like savage and divine.

[TroubleBrewing]

Well gestalting Fighter on to just about anything makes it better, although it tends to give bigger bonuses to the weaker classes, so it isn't as bad as you think.
I've been told that if you take a group of monks, a group of fighters and a group of wizards through the same never-ending dungeon, the wizards die first and the monks die last.

Gestalting in general makes things better; that's the point. You'd be hard-pressed to find a gestalt combination that actually makes things worse for the character.

As for the second bit, you've been lied to, friend. :smallamused:

[big teej]

well, I already stated that you can assume that the DM is not a complete moron and is compensating for the fact that the entire party has levels in X class. I merely used martial classes as an example.

[Hazzardevil]

Gestalting in general makes things better; that's the point. You'd be hard-pressed to find a gestalt combination that actually makes things worse for the character.

As for the second bit, you've been lied to, friend. :smallamused:

This was starting from level 1 though, I can imagine a group of level 1 wizards dying quickly at level 1 seeing as if they aren't careful they run out of spells.
Maybe I should try and organise that.

[Gnaeus]

If x is a class without healing, the party will rapidly TPK, if you hold to the four encounters per day model...

Any T1 class, and you can do it no problem. Any T2 class, and you should be able to. T3 and under classes would have problems. Monk or Fighter... yea, good luck with surviving your first level without DM intervention.

Pretty much this. We ran an all wizard group a few years ago and it ran fine. We had a tank/melee, a healer/summoner, a blaster and a controller.

Assuming that wands are available, many T4 and most T3s will be fine. Even a fighter could take high charisma and skill focus (UMD) to use the cure light wounds lesser vigor wand.

Edit (post merge)
This was starting from level 1 though, I can imagine a group of level 1 wizards dying quickly at level 1 seeing as if they aren't careful they run out of spells.
Maybe I should try and organise that.

We didn't have any trouble. Each level 1 wizard gets 4 (1+1 int+2 focused specialist) spells per day. Maybe 5 if they have Int 20. Focused specialist helps a lot in an all wizard party, because it preserves everyone's role and the missing spells don't hurt much. That means that each wizard can cast a level 1 spell at the beginning of each encounter. Since 2 color sprays or sleep spells can own a typical cr 1 encounter, this works fine. Stragglers meet a rain of daze spells and crossbow bolts. This is even easier if your group plays PF. Also, SOMEONE in your party can scribe scrolls, and at 12.5 gp scrolls are affordable at level 1.

[Acanous]

I'm DMing an all cleric party right now. They've only had two encounters thus far, but blew them away without any problem.

[LibraryOgre]

The Mod Wonder: These threads have been merged. There may be some posting irregularities prior to this post as a result. Unless it deals with content, assume it is from that.

[Amnestic]

Your idea is not so much a theme as let's-screw-party-diversity.

-postsnip-

I concur. When I hear 'themed party' I don't imagine a party of everyone playing the same class (be it 1-20 or just for x levels, or one side of gestalt), but rather everyone coming from a similar themed background regardless of class.

If the theme was...say, circus performers, I wouldn't expect them to all be of the same class, but it'd certainly be a unifying theme.

[Salanmander]

Running parties in which all characters have the same basic role could be tons of fun. It allows you to do things you couldn't do without effectively splitting the party in regular games. For example, you could have a sneaky sneaky mission, without your fullplate cleric going "...well, see you guys tomorrow".

That said, I would not phrase it in terms of class. I would say "everyone must be sneaky" or "everyone must focus on beating things with pointy sticks" or something like that. I think this because phrasing it in terms of class would really frustrate me. If I was told "we're all playing fighters!" I would say "Wait, why the hell can't I use barbarian?"

I also like the gestalt [set class]//whatever idea. I've been contemplating for a while a gestalt game where everyone has one side be a ToB class, and setting it in the Exalted world. (I like the setting of Exalted, but i got bored with the mechanics over the course of about a year-long campaign.)

[SowZ]

I only see an all fighter party working in a very low magic setting where everyone else is a martial class and the creatures everyone faces have limited, (if any,) supernatural abilities. Give everyone 2 LAs and they might have some magic. (A Satyr can put people to sleep, etc.)

[BlueInc]

Running parties in which all characters have the same basic role could be tons of fun. It allows you to do things you couldn't do without effectively splitting the party in regular games. For example, you could have a sneaky sneaky mission, without your fullplate cleric going "...well, see you guys tomorrow".

I've been working on a campaign where everyone would need to be stealth-based, whether rogue, ranger, or trickery-domain cleric. They would be working for a prestigious assassin's guild in a large city, very Dark Brotherhood-esque.

[SowZ]

I've been working on a campaign where everyone would need to be stealth-based, whether rogue, ranger, or trickery-domain cleric. They would be working for a prestigious assassin's guild in a large city, very Dark Brotherhood-esque.

The Dark Brotherhood?

"Out of my sight. I do not respect anyone who debases the sacred art of murder."

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I've been working on a campaign where everyone would need to be stealth-based, whether rogue, ranger, or trickery-domain cleric. They would be working for a prestigious assassin's guild in a large city, very Dark Brotherhood-esque.

You see... now THIS is something I could agree with.

You could have rogues, you could have a Warlock with Darkness and Devil's Sight and Walk Unseen invocations, you could have Factorums, you could have a Beguiler (practically tailor-made for this role), you could have a Cleric with Trickery and Kobold domains...

This gives you options. Forcing characters into x class is... railroading.

[SowZ]

You see... now THIS is something I could agree with.

You could have rogues, you could have a Warlock with Darkness and Devil's Sight and Walk Unseen invocations, you could have Factorums, you could have a Beguiler (practically tailor-made for this role), you could have a Cleric with Trickery and Kobold domains...

This gives you options. Forcing characters into x class is... railroading.

I did an assassin campaign, once, in a superpowered setting. One person used shapeshifting for their stealth, one person used illusion powers, and two of them just had high stealth skills. Yeah, there are many was to fill one role.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A stealthy party is great!

Use the Werecreature template to combine a Whisper Gnome (RoS) with a Serval (Sandstorm), and probably go (unarmed) Swordsage and a few Warshaper.

Rogue/Psion/Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d)/Shadowmind (CV, not Mind's Eye), pick Mind Cripple and I'd use Seer or Nomad for his discipline.

Bard, Druid, Ranger/Swift Hunter, Beguiler, (Martial) (Wilderness) Rogue, etc. are suitable without any additional effort.

Illumian (Krau) Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ Ultimate Magus, with Able Learner.

Even something like Ranger/Blackguard would work, use the strong-arm combat style to get Power Attack and Improved Sunder.

As many have said, a (Cloistered) Cleric with the Trickery domain, and possibly convert to worshiping Vecna so you can get the Whispered Secrets initiate feat from Races of Destiny for Spot and Listen plus other benefits.

There are just so many possibilities for interesting/strong character builds in this kind of party, but there are also plenty of easy I'll-play-this-class choices for players with less experience/effort. Having an entire party who can sneak gives the game a refreshing change in party tactics and how adventures are run, and being able to get the drop on every encounter is a lot of fun.

[TheRinni]

I've never run a party with a class theme - but I have had parties with racial themes. All Vampire parties, all fiend parties. Hell, most of my games are all Human parties these days.

[137beth]

My friend was in a party where everyone was a half-elf wizard. It worked fairly well (one was a necromancer so they could stay out of melee). As for lower tier classes, it works fine, as long as the DM is careful to play to their strengths. It is also best if the class allows from specialization (preferably NOT a commoner:smallwink:). Otherwise things get boring.

[Midnight_v]

I was about to suggest that I've seen parties and read a couple of stories online that are "You must be this stealthy to ride" that... that probabbly works.
So... you can theortically have 4 dudes with darkstalker, and some wands go sneak attack/deathattack crazy nuts. Further, the way I saw it ran last these dudes were all "rogues" by class but they played as Agents of the royal court (spies, and diplomats)or some such. . . at that you could also be assassins, or Recon Marines or somesuch as well. It actually would work pretty well.
In other news. Parties of Druids Clerics, and Wizards... might just rule the world. Full story at 5.

[Lans]

Really if any of the classes short of commoners are opt high enough they should be fine.

[Marnath]

Really if any of the classes short of commoners are opt high enough they should be fine.

Commoner campaigns are doable too. Joe Wood is the one that immediately leaps to mind. It's just a matter of scale. Less "Yawn, another mindflayer? Send me a challenge!" and more "You killed three dire rats? By yourself??? O.O"

[Inferno]

I could see commoner being a viable theme for a party, maybe more than most other "all 1 class" parties. everyone builds their character with feats and gold: incarnum feats, imp. unarmed strike, maybe some psionics. They wouldn't be hunting dragons or beholders, but it could be interesting.
On 2nd thought, that just sounds like e6 without class features.

[Lans]

Commoner campaigns are doable too. Joe Wood is the one that immediately leaps to mind. It's just a matter of scale. Less "Yawn, another mindflayer? Send me a challenge!" and more "You killed three dire rats? By yourself??? O.O"

I meant with out throwing the party against under CR'd opponents.

Lets take 4 commoners level
Races -Dragon Born Warforge, mongrel folk, or strong heart halfling, maybe azurin
Feats Wild Cohort, Wild Talent, Fey/Fiendish Heritage 3Entangling breath/other?? 6 Fey/Fiendish Prescence 9 Fey/Fiendish Power
2 flaws, worship a elder evil, sell your soul.

Have 1 Take the Feats to Bind Malphas

Use handle animal to apply warbeast template to wolf or other Wild Cohort. Adamantine Body if a warforged,

[Zaq]

I've played in an all-Bard game. That was awesome. We all managed to specialize enough to complement each other's strengths without overlapping too much.

I almost felt bad for the GM, but really, he asked for it when he made his "Bards are OK, but they don't get any really good spells, like Fireball" comment.

Oh, and then there was the awesome Gather Info check we made. It was in the high 30s (38, I think?), At level 3. Did I mention that none of us were trained in Gather Info? Yeah.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I've played in an all-Bard game. That was awesome. We all managed to specialize enough to complement each other's strengths without overlapping too much.

I almost felt bad for the GM, but really, he asked for it when he made his "Bards are OK, but they don't get any really good spells, like Fireball" comment.

Oh, and then there was the awesome Gather Info check we made. It was in the high 30s (38, I think?), At level 3. Did I mention that none of us were trained in Gather Info? Yeah.

Yea, bards can do it pretty well. The 'tank' goes Bardblade, the 'caster' goes Sublime Chord, the 'cleric' goes Divine Bard, and the skillmonkey is... all of them.

[Andorax]

Personally, I'm all for the idea...though I would suggest considering the "theme of concept" rather than "theme of class" approach, as it allows for a better coverage of roles through limited diversity.

A stealth party, a nobility party, a wilderness party...all in keeping.

Anyways, on to my two experiences with it:

2e, Birthright setting. Ran a "Paladins only" campaign, and borrowed conceptually from the Prince Valiant animated series. All 8 characters were of minor noble blood, called together from neighboring kingdoms to take part in a rough analog of King Arthur's court...trained together, adventured together, diplomancied together.

It was a signficiant challenge to build diversity out of it, but through a varied selection of deities, races, and general specialties (one of the BR deities allowed CG paladins, one of the players was arabic, one of them was part sylph). The onset of prestige classes and paladin variants (NG/LN for coherency would be my limits) would make this play out better in 3E.


Got a chance to play with a first-time DM...and sadly, we broke him. Players sat down and agreed to do a themed party. Starting level of 4, we decided we were all going be human, and take a minimum of 1 (1st) level of Barbarian. All from the same tribe, all youths out in the world for the first time. Bar 4, Bar 1/Rng 1/Dru 2, Bar 1/Cle3, and Bar 1/Sor 3.

Initial dungeon was immense fun...we completed it in round-by-round time. Big room with three doors...we kicked all of them down at once and spread out looking for something to fight...and when we found it, gave a shout and everyone else converged on that spot.

Sadly, the DM (who hadn't forewarned us) had an urban campaign planned, and while none of us were drop-dead stupid, we were role-playing cultural ignorance to the hilt. Baths in the public fountain, hacking apart expensive furnature to make a campfire (no other source of wood was provided to us), and scaring the heck out of the local peasantry as the four of us went jogging along at MV 40' singing a tribal chant to keep time.

I think what finally made him give up was when we were told to "wait for boarding" to get on a ship, watched it drift into the dock, didn't wait for the gangplank to drop since we were daring each other to leap, climb, and get on board, and started interrogating the crew as to who "boarding" was so we could get his permission to travel on this boat.


Would still love to run a:

Thieves' Guild campaign: Rogues, Thugs, Clerics of Oldamara and the like, Arcane Tricksters.

College Arcane campaign: Cleric of Boccob, Hexblade, Spellthief, Sorc, Wiz, etc.