shimmercat
2011-08-03, 12:19 AM
We are playing an undead game! :smallbiggrin: D&D 3.5, I'd prefer to avoid Tome of Battle and Tome of Magic.
I decided on a character concept that is a Ghostwalk-style ghost (yes I know that GW is 3.0, the DM recommended this book). This character is a holy warrior of some sort, probably Fighter 8/Pious Templar 4/Eidelon 2. Melee fighter/tank. I've got some fun RP reasons for these decisions but the important facts are:
Ghostwalk-style ghost (+1 LA)
Base race is flexible, I'll probably go human unless there is a good reason for a different race
Melee fighter
Extremely religious
Level 15
LG/LN
Currently thinking Fighter 8/Pious Templar 4/Eidelon 2 (not necessarily in that order)
The problem that I'm running into is that incorporeals have no Str score! I can manifest, but then I lose a lot of the fun incorporeal abilities. How can I play an incorporeal Str fighter? I could just make it a Dex fighter, although that's not the flavor I'm going for. There may not BE a way to solve this problem, but hey, might as well ask.
Anyone got any fun/creative ideas for this sort of character?
Quick summary of GW-style ghost:
Speed: When incorporeal, a ghost can fly at a speed of 30 ft. (good).
AC: When incorporeal, a ghost gains a deflection bonus to AC equal to its Charisma modifier (always at least +1, even if the creature’s Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus).
Attacks: An incorporeal ghost has no natural ability to affect material creatures. Certain feats can allow a ghost to manifest fully (and therefore use material weapons at the attack bonus it had as a character) or harm a material creature in various ways.
Low-Light Vision (Ex)
Disembodied Soul (Ex): This effects how the ghost is "raised" from the "dead," I'm not concerned with this.
No Discernible Anatomy (Ex)
Ectoplasmic Body (Ex): Ghosts cannot become fatigued or exhausted. When killed, a ghost’s body reverts to raw ectoplasm, decaying into nothingness after 10 minutes. A gentle repose spell preserves a ghost’s body as if it were a normal corpse. (and some fluff)
Incorporeal: (this is copy/pasted from the SRD) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead, but a hit with holy water has a 50% chance of not affecting an incorporeal creature.
An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature’s Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus).
An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see farther from the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.
An incorporeal creature’s attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight.
An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn’t wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to both its melee attacks and its ranged attacks. Nonvisual senses, such as scent and blindsight, are either ineffective or only partly effective with regard to incorporeal creatures. Incorporeal creatures have an innate sense of direction and can move at full speed even when they cannot see.
Some ghosts learn feats that allow them to manifest fully and interact with the material world in a normal manner.
Sense Physical Body (Su): A ghost can attempt an Wisdom check (DC 15) once per round to determine the general direction of its physical body.
Ghost Weakness (Ex): If a ghost is hit by a sneak attack or a critical hit from a silver weapon, it must make a Fortitude save (DC 15) or be stunned for 1 round. Other than this possible stunning effect, a critical hit or sneak attack does not deal any more damage than a normal hit from that weapon.
Abilities: A ghost retains all of its original ability scores. When the ghost is incorporeal, it has no Strength score.
Skills: A ghost receives a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks. Otherwise same as the character.
Challenge Rating: Same as the character +1.
The rest of the original post:
That alignment should be fuuuuuuun: the rest of the party consists of a LE Necropolitan spellthief lawyer, a LE ghoul flesh-gourmand cleric, and one other (the player is still undecided). DM thought it would be the most fun for me to go for LG, though!
I'm skimming GW for ideas, and then probably Libris Mortis. The obvious things I see right now is that I'm going to have to deal with the incorporeal issue (so that I can actually do damage), and that ghosts get a plus to their AC based on CHA. CHA would also be nice with my RP concept, so classes that use CHA are a plus.
Also, any suggestions about cool things to do with an incorporeal PC are appreciated. :smallsmile:
I tend to prefer simple builds, using basic books and not a whole lot of dips into various classes/prestige classes. I'm not much of a min-maxer, and I tend to have more fun if the character isn't super powerful. I'm just not even sure where to start here (and I thought that this forum may have some fun with this particular challenge.) :smallwink:
I decided on a character concept that is a Ghostwalk-style ghost (yes I know that GW is 3.0, the DM recommended this book). This character is a holy warrior of some sort, probably Fighter 8/Pious Templar 4/Eidelon 2. Melee fighter/tank. I've got some fun RP reasons for these decisions but the important facts are:
Ghostwalk-style ghost (+1 LA)
Base race is flexible, I'll probably go human unless there is a good reason for a different race
Melee fighter
Extremely religious
Level 15
LG/LN
Currently thinking Fighter 8/Pious Templar 4/Eidelon 2 (not necessarily in that order)
The problem that I'm running into is that incorporeals have no Str score! I can manifest, but then I lose a lot of the fun incorporeal abilities. How can I play an incorporeal Str fighter? I could just make it a Dex fighter, although that's not the flavor I'm going for. There may not BE a way to solve this problem, but hey, might as well ask.
Anyone got any fun/creative ideas for this sort of character?
Quick summary of GW-style ghost:
Speed: When incorporeal, a ghost can fly at a speed of 30 ft. (good).
AC: When incorporeal, a ghost gains a deflection bonus to AC equal to its Charisma modifier (always at least +1, even if the creature’s Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus).
Attacks: An incorporeal ghost has no natural ability to affect material creatures. Certain feats can allow a ghost to manifest fully (and therefore use material weapons at the attack bonus it had as a character) or harm a material creature in various ways.
Low-Light Vision (Ex)
Disembodied Soul (Ex): This effects how the ghost is "raised" from the "dead," I'm not concerned with this.
No Discernible Anatomy (Ex)
Ectoplasmic Body (Ex): Ghosts cannot become fatigued or exhausted. When killed, a ghost’s body reverts to raw ectoplasm, decaying into nothingness after 10 minutes. A gentle repose spell preserves a ghost’s body as if it were a normal corpse. (and some fluff)
Incorporeal: (this is copy/pasted from the SRD) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead, but a hit with holy water has a 50% chance of not affecting an incorporeal creature.
An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature’s Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus).
An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see farther from the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.
An incorporeal creature’s attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight.
An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn’t wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to both its melee attacks and its ranged attacks. Nonvisual senses, such as scent and blindsight, are either ineffective or only partly effective with regard to incorporeal creatures. Incorporeal creatures have an innate sense of direction and can move at full speed even when they cannot see.
Some ghosts learn feats that allow them to manifest fully and interact with the material world in a normal manner.
Sense Physical Body (Su): A ghost can attempt an Wisdom check (DC 15) once per round to determine the general direction of its physical body.
Ghost Weakness (Ex): If a ghost is hit by a sneak attack or a critical hit from a silver weapon, it must make a Fortitude save (DC 15) or be stunned for 1 round. Other than this possible stunning effect, a critical hit or sneak attack does not deal any more damage than a normal hit from that weapon.
Abilities: A ghost retains all of its original ability scores. When the ghost is incorporeal, it has no Strength score.
Skills: A ghost receives a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks. Otherwise same as the character.
Challenge Rating: Same as the character +1.
The rest of the original post:
That alignment should be fuuuuuuun: the rest of the party consists of a LE Necropolitan spellthief lawyer, a LE ghoul flesh-gourmand cleric, and one other (the player is still undecided). DM thought it would be the most fun for me to go for LG, though!
I'm skimming GW for ideas, and then probably Libris Mortis. The obvious things I see right now is that I'm going to have to deal with the incorporeal issue (so that I can actually do damage), and that ghosts get a plus to their AC based on CHA. CHA would also be nice with my RP concept, so classes that use CHA are a plus.
Also, any suggestions about cool things to do with an incorporeal PC are appreciated. :smallsmile:
I tend to prefer simple builds, using basic books and not a whole lot of dips into various classes/prestige classes. I'm not much of a min-maxer, and I tend to have more fun if the character isn't super powerful. I'm just not even sure where to start here (and I thought that this forum may have some fun with this particular challenge.) :smallwink: