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DMVerdandi
2011-08-03, 02:21 AM
THE MILITANT(updated to v2.0)

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/041/5/1/51ec0955711efceb22fe147a1a99d811.jpg

One's duty is to honor, discipline, and understanding.-random militant

The militant represents a very distinct group of initiators. While Crusaders fight and become powerful through a cause, Swordsages do so as a ascetic trial to self mastery, and Warblades do so for personal attainment and glory, Militants fight for one reason. It is what they were trained to do.

Rather than being directly associated with the other initiator classes, The militant is a natural progression of the mundane combatant, someone who has gained a different insight into combat maneuvers through a disciplined and regimented program. Where some initiators evolved through the understanding of certain cultural and historical circumstances, Militants exist everywhere, representing the paragon of the educated and disciplined fighting elite.




MAKING A MILITANT

As a class that epitomizes structured martial training, The Militant should focus strongly on equiping himself with the tools needed to implement such training.

Abilities: Strength,dexterity and constitution make sure that the militant is capable of surviving the rigors of combat, by increasing their physical athleticism, and constitution is the score for concentration, which ties in with many of the classes abilities.

Mental scores are also important. Intelligence is the most important as it advances the skills, Wisdom helps to maintain a strong willpower, and sometimes, when the Militant is in a leadership position, charisma is helpful.

Races: Any races with a tradition of educated warrior elite usually have militants.
They are the officers and masterminds of the battlefield.

Alignment:Any


Starting Gold: As fighter.

Starting Age: As fighter.

Class Skills
The Militant's class skills are:
The Militant can choose any 15 skills to be class skills.

Skills Per Day at 1st Level : (6 + int)x4
Skills Per Day at Each Additional Level : 6 + int

Hit Dice: d10



BAB: Good
Fort:Good
Ref:Good
Will:Poor

Abilities


1. Militant feat/lore
2. Point of focus +1
3. Militant feat
4. Point of focus +2
5. Militant feat
6.Point of focus +3
7. Militant feat
8. Point of focus +4
9. Militant feat
10. Point of focus +5
11. Militant feat
12. Ease of focus
13. Militant feat
14. Point of focus +6
15. Militant feat
16. Point of focus +7
17. Militant feat
18. Point of focus +8
19. Militant feat
20. Disciplined focus


Weapon Proficiencies: A militant is proficient with all martial weapons, and all armor.

Maneuvers
The Militant is a versatile combatant who learns maneuvers through personal choice which they call the "Militant operation specialty".

They gain maneuvers known and readied as a warblade of equal level. The schools known are chosen from two schools of the Militant's choice at first level.

To recover maneuvers, the militant must take a full-round action for a concentration check of 15. If he succeeds, the maneuvers are recovered instantly.

Stances
As warblade

Militant feat
Starting at first, and gained every odd level, The militant gains access to what is called a militant feat. It represents the amount of education that the militant has, and constant training and self-improvement.

The Militant feat can be spent on any feat the militant qualifies for. It differs from normal feats as it represents the amount of focus the militant has, and not the feat itself. It is a feat slot. Once per week, per slot, the militant can reallocate the Militant feat slot to another feat they qualify for.

If a first level militant decides that It would rather take the run feat, rather than the improved unarmed attack feat, Once per seven days, he can spend an 1-hour per slot session of intense focus(in which they can take no other action but intense study and self reflection) to replace that feat for another.

The session requires two checks per feat slot, one lore check of (25 + The total amount of militant feat slots being changed), and a Concentration check of the same number.

It takes one hour to reallocate each feat, and once that is done, the Militant has the option to cancel the allocation of the rest, or make another check of the same difficulty to progress. If at any time the check is failed, the Militant must stop completely, and cannot reallocate his Militant feats for another 7 days.




All the militant feat slots can be changed at once, or staggered to lessen the difficulty.

Lore
Lore
At 1st level, a Militant gains the ability to know legends or information regarding various topics, just as a bard can with bardic knowledge. The militant adds her level and her Intelligence modifier to the lore check, which functions otherwise exactly like a bardic knowledge check.


Point of Focus
Through supernormal practices of concentration, the Militant can achieve a fugue state, referred to as the point of focus. By forcefully increasing their mindfullness in action and willpower mentally, they can increase all performances.

First gained at the second level, the point of focus is achieved by making a swift concentration check of 15. If made, the Militant enters the point of focus state. It grants a +1 enhancement bonus to AC, Attack ,Damage, One skill of choice, and one Ability modifier of choice. The choice to the skill and modifier cannot be changed until the duration of the point of focus ends.

The duration of Point of Focus lasts for 5 rounds + The Modifier of the score chosen to enhance with the bonus.
If the modifier chosen is charisma, for example, that is the modifier used.

After the duration of Point of Focus has been expended, The amount of effort taken to forcefully reach the point of focus in question reaps a toll on the user, called the fugue state.

The militant must roll a D4 twice. The result bestows a certain condition on the Militant for an amount of rounds equal to the second roll.
First Roll
1:Dazed
2:Exhausted
3:Fatigued
4:Nauseated

Second roll
1. One turn
2. Two turns.
3. Three turns.
4. Four turns.

The Point of focus can be gained outside of combat, but can only be gained once per encounter.
At certain levels, the bonus for Point of Focus is heightened by +1

Ease of Focus
Entering the point of focus begins to come naturally to the militant, and additional benefits are gained. When this ability is gained, the militant gains the ability to more quickly reallocate the bonus gained from point of focus.
It takes one full-round action to re-allocate the bonus.



Disciplined focus
As the capstone, The Militant becomes so adept at Using the point of focus, that it lasts longer. The new duration is 10 + the enhanced modifier.

The militant is also capable of taking 10 anytime on the concentration check needed to reach the point of focus,



PLAYING A MILITANT

A militant is more than a simple warrior, who drudges through armed combat with a small amount of knowledge about his blade, and he is different than a fighter, whom focuses only on the displays of his combat feats. The Militant represents the armed combatant that Knows every trick in the book since they studied it from binder to binder.

When playing a militant, social standing alone changes. Being a militant means something more than being able to swing an axe, it means serious study has gone into the mechanics of fighting, survival, and creation of a seperate level of combatant.

A low level militant could be someone who is simply a genius at combat and has seen the science of fighting for what it is individually, or it could be someone who studies at a military college, who has elected to focus on learning the totality of the fighting system. A militant is to melee as a wizard is to magic, someone who has such a knowledge of warfare and knowledge in general that they are looked to as the authorities on that field.







Religion: Militants often have a wide plethora of deities, and often have a creedo "whoever saves you on the battelfield is the god you pray to."


Other Classes: Militants are trained to observe and learn from all classes, and make extraordinarily good team-mates. Each crafts their education on their talents, so any given militant has something in common with someone. Among melee oriented classes, they gravitate towards the more civilized classes, the fighters, rogues, and warriors.


Combat: In combat, the militant has many options. As an initiator, maneuvers are a large part of their fighting style, using the best option at the time to do the most damage. The large body of feat knowledge they fall back on also helps tremendously, giving the image that a Militant is "Always ready. Always prepared".

Their focal point ability Gives militants a definate edge in combat as well, and even with it's drawbacks, using it whenever possible is advised.

Advancement: Militants are known for multiclassing, and because of the lessons learned in the class, any class it takes increases it's initiator level by 1/2 per level, and class level by 1/4

MILITANTS IN THE WORLD

"I thought generally being a fighter in this world meant you needed to be prepared for everything. Militants showed me that we take it easy. They train like demons. Better to have them on your side than against you..."
-Relf, Dwarf fighter and Temple Guard.

Militants are percieved as sticks in the mud. They can be from the wilderness to the edge of civilization, but are always dignified through their discipline and knowledge of combat. Forever maintaining their schedules, other group members may find it odd for the Militants to be practicing too early each morning, having a neurotic appreciation for order and cleanliness when possible, and living their whole lives repetitiously. Once a militant, always a militant, and they NEVER truly relax.



Daily Life: Generally, they wake up extremely early for training and study. Reallocation for feats should be done as early as possible. After that, they usually plan out every action they do, even "relaxation time". From dawn till dusk, a militant has a schedule for everything.

Notables: Almost every strategist, general, or leader in any form of combat has taken at least a level in the Militant to represent the power that understanding the science of combat.

Organizations: Armies, mercenary units, Militias, even town guards may have a militant. Simply look for the fellow who takes combat TOO seriously. He may even be made fun of for it, until his skills are put to the test.

NPC Reaction
NPC'S are on both sides of the fence. Some see them as heroes, living testaments of discipline in martial warfare, while others think of them as little more than know it all soldiers, who simply learned how to "kill better".

MILITANTS IN THE GAME
Militants are a measure more powerful than the standard sellsword, a real powerhouse on the fields of battle, they are often sought out greatly among soldiers for their strength in battle.

Though with all of that, magic still has a hold on them.


Adaptation: In a campaign that does NOT allow initiators, One can instead change the Militant feat from one week to one day to emphasize the increase in education, and the decrease in practice with maneuvers.

Also, to represent the truly large and expansive dimension that is the martial maneuver and initiators, The Militant could also create or inherit martial schools that aren't listed in the tome of battle, created from the other sources of martial inspiration. If such a Militant is created, they must at the first level select and create the whole school and have it approved with the DM.

Encounters: For every 5 armed specialists, there is one militant that represents someone who is dedicated to martial warfare, education, and self-discipline more than any else.









Creator comments:
My take on the experienced soldier in fantasy.
Often they had SIGNIFICANT freedom to grow and expand, And also a special "focus" that allowed them to be better, and fight better than the rest of the combatants.




EDIT: Changes made on 8/03/2011
-First level skill bonus lowered.
-Will bonus changed
-Maneuvers changed
-Point of focus changed
-Militant bonus feat changed
-Hit Die changed
-Ease of focus changed
-Disciplined focus changed

TroubleBrewing
2011-08-03, 02:22 AM
Should probably move this to the section of the forums labeled "Homebrew".

DMVerdandi
2011-08-03, 03:52 AM
Requested it be moved, while it's here, does anyone have any comments?
Positive, Negative?

It's my first homebrew class.

TroubleBrewing
2011-08-03, 04:49 AM
I've got a couple.

1) 8+int modifier skills at 1st level, 6+int every level thereafter?

2) Any 15 skills as class skills? Seriously?

3) D12 hit dice AND 8+int modifier skill points, plus full maneuver progression? It loses all of its power by giving up a familiar too, right?

4) It looks interesting, but it looks like more of a "Warblade plus some extra stuff" class. Warblade is already pretty powerful. Why did it need Bardic Knowledge on top of all of its class features?

Keld Denar
2011-08-03, 05:07 AM
Woah, more bonus feats than a Fighter, plus can change them easily and have no restrictions. Seriously, I think you COULD actually run out of worthwhile feats to take here.

Holy skill points from an unrestricted list? Hellooooooo Iajitzu Focus, Autohypnosis, and UMD.

You have no DC on recovering maneuvers, BTW. Just says "make a concentration check". Vs what? Also, no school restrictions ???? 4 schools is plenty given that it has maneuvers like a Warblade, and Warblades don't get enough maneuvers known to do more than specialize in one school and dabble in 1-2 others with prereqs to satisfy.

d12 HD? Also, Focus is like Rage+, but lasts longer, has no limit on uses/day, and Fugue state has no listed duration (end of encounter? Sucks if you roll dazed!). Its also kinda complicated in what you get where and whatnot, especially with the "pool" mechanic involved.

Seriously, I'm not seeing any kind of balance here. I mean, this is nearly Lightning Warrior level of...wow, just with maneuvers instead of spells.

vampire2948
2011-08-03, 05:42 AM
Seriously, I'm not seeing any kind of balance here. I mean, this is nearly Lightning Warrior level of...wow, just with maneuvers instead of spells.

What do you mean? It doesn't even get a familiar/psicrystal! :smallwink:


Also - Yes, way too many feats. And the rage ability needs an X/day or X/encounter or something.

I'd also change the duration from:


The duration of Point of Focus lasts for 5 rounds + the amount gained on the concentration check -15.

To something like:
The duration of Point of Focus lasts for 5 rounds + 1/4 the result of your concentration check, rounded down.

But that's just me.

Vamp,

TroubleBrewing
2011-08-03, 06:08 AM
3 responses, 3 different Lightning Warrior jokes. Something tells me this class needs some balancing.

SowZ
2011-08-03, 11:43 AM
Well, it emulates a number of classes, (including fighter,) but it is better in almost every way. I'd say drop the HD to d8, drop the skills to as fighter, don't allow unlimited retraining of feats, and rework the special abilities. I've never played a warblade so I'll let someone else make direct suggestions, there.

It could be fun but with the exception of some neat ideas, right now it looks like a triple gestalted class.

TroubleBrewing
2011-08-03, 01:05 PM
I'd say drop the HD to d8, drop the skills to as fighter, don't allow unlimited retraining of feats, and rework the special abilities. I've never played a warblade so I'll let someone else make direct suggestions, there.

Your suggestion is to make the class... Worse than a Fighter? :smallconfused:

I mean, this class is way, way, way too strong right now. But maybe just do two of those four things. If you do all four, you end up with a class that's just barely ahead of the Warrior NPC class.

SowZ
2011-08-03, 01:28 PM
Your suggestion is to make the class... Worse than a Fighter? :smallconfused:

I mean, this class is way, way, way too strong right now. But maybe just do two of those four things. If you do all four, you end up with a class that's just barely ahead of the Warrior NPC class.

Nah, it isn't worse then a fighter. A fighter has d10 hit dice and bad skill progression and bonus feats. Right now the class has d12 hit dice, fantastic skill progression, good BAB progression, lots of bonus feats, and special abilities.

Keep the special abilities, just rework them a bit. That alone gives more flexibility then a fighter. But if you are going to have skill progression better then a fighter, feats like a fighter, HD like a fighter, no dead levels, and special abilities... Why would anyone ever play a fighter?

Zale
2011-08-03, 01:37 PM
3 responses, 3 different Lightning Warrior jokes. Something tells me this class needs some balancing.


They are supposed to be the Wizards of the melee world. :smallwink:

Did you notice the multiclassing rules?

Wyntonian
2011-08-03, 03:10 PM
One thing, not sure if it's deliberate or not, but you said that they get proficiency with martial weapons and all armors. What about simple weapons?

DMVerdandi
2011-08-03, 04:07 PM
I've got a couple.

1) 8+int modifier skills at 1st level, 6+int every level thereafter?

Typo. It's supposed to be 6+int.


2) Any 15 skills as class skills? Seriously?
Seriously.
It is similar to the expert's skill choice. Representing an education tailor made for the Militant.


3) D12 hit dice AND 8+int modifier skill points, plus full maneuver progression? It loses all of its power by giving up a familiar too, right?
Aha...
Remember, the lightning warrior had a D20 hit die, full caster progression, and automatic proficiency in perfect two weapon fighting.
It was FAR more powerful.


4) It looks interesting, but it looks like more of a "Warblade plus some extra stuff" class. Warblade is already pretty powerful. Why did it need Bardic Knowledge on top of all of its class features?
I feel like the bardic knowledge adds a lot of flavor and capability to the militant, and represents their wide-grasping education.





Woah, more bonus feats than a Fighter, plus can change them easily and have no restrictions. Seriously, I think you COULD actually run out of worthwhile feats to take here.
And an archivist can learn every divine spell in the game.
Scholar's touch+arcane sight+Secret page = Stealing whole spell archives in a day.

Lots of feats still means you are getting... feats.
Good but not so overpoweredly broken that the class is unplayable.


Holy skill points from an unrestricted list? Hellooooooo Iajitzu Focus, Autohypnosis, and UMD.
And from then on, they are locked in. You don't juggle them.
If you end up failing a jump check because you forgot to add it in your skills, then you fall to your death.



You have no DC on recovering maneuvers, BTW. Just says "make a concentration check". Vs what? Also, no school restrictions ???? 4 schools is plenty given that it has maneuvers like a Warblade, and Warblades don't get enough maneuvers known to do more than specialize in one school and dabble in 1-2 others with prereqs to satisfy.
This class is meant to replace those three in settings that don't cater to them. I could switch them to three, or even two schools known.
I may infact do that. Two schools known is fine.



d12 HD? Also, Focus is like Rage+, but lasts longer, has no limit on uses/day, and Fugue state has no listed duration (end of encounter? Sucks if you roll dazed!). Its also kinda complicated in what you get where and whatnot, especially with the "pool" mechanic involved.
D12 Is fine.
Focus is as intended. It DOES last longer than rage, because it comes from a different source.
Balancing them against PHB classes is kind of silly, because as we have all seen over the years, they are ANYTHING but balanced.

Fugue state was a synonym of point of focus.
It isn't a different ability. Clarifying.





Seriously, I'm not seeing any kind of balance here. I mean, this is nearly Lightning Warrior level of...wow, just with maneuvers instead of spells.
And why is that bad?
The lightning warrior was unbalanced because it went WAY out of the capabilities of anything normal to compensate for a familiar being lost.


The militant is just strong as crap, but the thing is, it becomes that way simply because it starts that way. It isn't balancing against the classes in the PHB short of the spellcasters, because those, and POSSIBLY the rogue are the only truly balanced classes.

It just starts at a different level of power.
The monk and the druid are in the same book, no?
Is one in a completely different tier than the other? Yes. Completely.

The monks class abilities grant it the ability to punch hard, run and manipulate his body with chi. The Druid's class abilities allow it to use spells. everyday, all day.


However, I am contemplating adding in a training restriction.




What do you mean? It doesn't even get a familiar/psicrystal! :smallwink:

Also - Yes, way too many feats. And the rage ability needs an X/day or X/encounter or something.

I'd also change the duration from:



To something like:
The duration of Point of Focus lasts for 5 rounds + 1/4 the result of your concentration check, rounded down.

But that's just me.

Vamp,
I actually like that. Chainging duration.


Well, it emulates a number of classes, (including fighter,) but it is better in almost every way. I'd say drop the HD to d8, drop the skills to as fighter, don't allow unlimited retraining of feats, and rework the special abilities. I've never played a warblade so I'll let someone else make direct suggestions, there.
Honestly, I thought about lessening it to exactly D8.
I felt like it was a hefty dice, since they would be learning more.
Switching it to D10.

Skills need to stay.
Militant feats are NOTHING compared to a wizard being able to simply go into a bookstore, copy and paste spells, and go, FOR FREE.

They ARE strong, but not the strongest, which is good.
Dropping the schools learned to 2.



It could be fun but with the exception of some neat ideas, right now it looks like a triple gestalted class.
heh...


Nah, it isn't worse then a fighter. A fighter has d10 hit dice and bad skill progression and bonus feats. Right now the class has d12 hit dice, fantastic skill progression, good BAB progression, lots of bonus feats, and special abilities.

Keep the special abilities, just rework them a bit. That alone gives more flexibility then a fighter. But if you are going to have skill progression better then a fighter, feats like a fighter, HD like a fighter, no dead levels, and special abilities... Why would anyone ever play a fighter?
Thus is the rub.
You COULD use this as a fighter fix, and keep on truckin.
In a campaign with the 11 other classes, it would show why being a "militant fighter" IS being the best fighter.

The fighter as is, is one of the worst fighters.



They are supposed to be the Wizards of the melee world. :smallwink:

Did you notice the multiclassing rules?
Yeah, they are.
Fixing.

SowZ
2011-08-03, 04:31 PM
Typo. It's supposed to be 6+int.


Seriously.
It is similar to the expert's skill choice. Representing an education tailor made for the Militant.


Aha...
Remember, the lightning warrior had a D20 hit die, full caster progression, and automatic proficiency in perfect two weapon fighting.
It was FAR more powerful.


I feel like the bardic knowledge adds a lot of flavor and capability to the militant, and represents their wide-grasping education.





And an archivist can learn every divine spell in the game.
Scholar's touch+arcane sight+Secret page = Stealing whole spell archives in a day.

Lots of feats still means you are getting... feats.
Good but not so overpoweredly broken that the class is unplayable.


And from then on, they are locked in. You don't juggle them.
If you end up failing a jump check because you forgot to add it in your skills, then you fall to your death.



This class is meant to replace those three in settings that don't cater to them. I could switch them to three, or even two schools known.
I may infact do that. Two schools known is fine.



D12 Is fine.
Focus is as intended. It DOES last longer than rage, because it comes from a different source.
Balancing them against PHB classes is kind of silly, because as we have all seen over the years, they are ANYTHING but balanced.

Fugue state was a synonym of point of focus.
It isn't a different ability. Clarifying.




And why is that bad?
The lightning warrior was unbalanced because it went WAY out of the capabilities of anything normal to compensate for a familiar being lost.


The militant is just strong as crap, but the thing is, it becomes that way simply because it starts that way. It isn't balancing against the classes in the PHB short of the spellcasters, because those, and POSSIBLY the rogue are the only truly balanced classes.

It just starts at a different level of power.
The monk and the druid are in the same book, no?
Is one in a completely different tier than the other? Yes. Completely.

The monks class abilities grant it the ability to punch hard, run and manipulate his body with chi. The Druid's class abilities allow it to use spells. everyday, all day.


However, I am contemplating adding in a training restriction.




I actually like that. Chainging duration.


Honestly, I thought about lessening it to exactly D8.
I felt like it was a hefty dice, since they would be learning more.
Switching it to D10.

Skills need to stay.
Militant feats are NOTHING compared to a wizard being able to simply go into a bookstore, copy and paste spells, and go, FOR FREE.

They ARE strong, but not the strongest, which is good.
Dropping the schools learned to 2.


heh...


Thus is the rub.
You COULD use this as a fighter fix, and keep on truckin.
In a campaign with the 11 other classes, it would show why being a "militant fighter" IS being the best fighter.

The fighter as is, is one of the worst fighters.



Yeah, they are.
Fixing.

Sure. I guess you could use this class as is next to tier three classes, (or un-optimized tier two,) and if you optimized well still feel useful. But it can't really stand next to the other martial classes. As a replacement to them, okay, I get that. As a standard class? Nah.

DMVerdandi
2011-08-03, 04:43 PM
Sure. I guess you could use this class as is next to tier three classes, (or un-optimized tier two,) and if you optimized well still feel useful. But it can't really stand next to the other martial classes. As a replacement to them, okay, I get that. As a standard class? Nah.

Well, I gave the class a minor overhaul, without destroying it's integrity, based on you guy's suggestions.

It IS weaker, but in a good way.
PEACH?

Pechvarry
2011-08-04, 09:38 AM
I think I like it. I'm viewing this as a martial Fighter (with more focused flavor -- the remaining flavors can be caught by Warblade or Crusader), so I'm not going to freak out about it being Fighter+2.

It may change your flavor unfavorably, but I think you should consider making all the class skill checks based on Martial Lore (or perhaps their Lore class feature). The reason being: concentration means 5 out of 6 Militants will choose Diamond Mind. This may change point of focus from an intense, near-auto-hypnotic state to the genius' analysis of the battle (which makes me think of the short-lived Action Man CG cartoon, btw) and that might be a loss to you. Perhaps if you started it as Martial Lore, you could either have rules for using a couple other skills, or a Diamond Mind feat which lets you concentrate and get some other benefits.

I'd also consider forcing some skill choices on the player such as Martial Lore and the strength-based skills and then giving the player a smaller number of choose-able skills. I'd also consider having those skills come from a pre-set pool, or at least restrict certain skill choices, since some really are better than others.

The suggestions I made are listed in order of priority to me, with skill restrictions being just an idea, not even one I'm sure I'm behind.

DMVerdandi
2011-08-07, 09:55 AM
I think I like it. I'm viewing this as a martial Fighter (with more focused flavor -- the remaining flavors can be caught by Warblade or Crusader), so I'm not going to freak out about it being Fighter+2.

It may change your flavor unfavorably, but I think you should consider making all the class skill checks based on Martial Lore (or perhaps their Lore class feature). The reason being: concentration means 5 out of 6 Militants will choose Diamond Mind. This may change point of focus from an intense, near-auto-hypnotic state to the genius' analysis of the battle (which makes me think of the short-lived Action Man CG cartoon, btw) and that might be a loss to you. Perhaps if you started it as Martial Lore, you could either have rules for using a couple other skills, or a Diamond Mind feat which lets you concentrate and get some other benefits.

I'd also consider forcing some skill choices on the player such as Martial Lore and the strength-based skills and then giving the player a smaller number of choose-able skills. I'd also consider having those skills come from a pre-set pool, or at least restrict certain skill choices, since some really are better than others.

The suggestions I made are listed in order of priority to me, with skill restrictions being just an idea, not even one I'm sure I'm behind.

I will definitely think about using lore as the main skill with the abilities.
That is very interesting. I would have to modify the flavor, just a bit for the abilities, but it is far from a bad idea.

Also, I think I will reduce the amount of class skills to 10.
Thanks for posting.:smallsmile:

~Corvus~
2011-08-07, 06:05 PM
Hmm...why would i EVER choose a fighter over this class, if I had a choice? Maybe that's a tough question to answer, but... 2 good saves, full BAB and a d10 HD on top of 6+ Int skills is a BIT MUCH.

The other class abilities and ability to retrain feats--which is a badass idea btw--is maybe a more defining feature for the class than skills. 2+ int makes sense, as does 4 + int. I have a longer explanation of my reasoning against skills below.
Think about it this way: Skills are something a character practices regularly. They aren't something a person dedicates time to while sleeping. You want a balance of things to do in a day's work and training for the class, which is why a fighter gets 2+ int skills. Concentration makes sense, as does, say, balance or Jump, right? Tumble, etc...those skills make sense, and incorporating them into a martial discipline works. Let's say 4 skills, tops, can be covered along with a day's training regimen. But now you want to tell me that they can also learn--for example--how to use MAGICAL DEVICES (great skill for rogues, and reasonable for rogues or bards to learn). Since we're on Charisma skills, pick up Diplomacy, and they spend enough time with communication skills that that they can talk their way out of several fights they won't win or possibly pick up a wizard's wand and make themselves invisible any time they want to? It seems a bit much to accept.
I would say unrestricted access to 6+ int skills or access to bonus retrainable feats: choose which you think is MORE suited to a martial, militant person.


It may change your flavor unfavorably, but I think you should consider making all the class skill checks based on Martial Lore (or perhaps their Lore class feature). The reason being: concentration means 5 out of 6 Militants will choose Diamond Mind. This may change point of focus from an intense, near-auto-hypnotic state to the genius' analysis of the battle (which makes me think of the short-lived Action Man CG cartoon, btw) and that might be a loss to you. Perhaps if you started it as Martial Lore, you could either have rules for using a couple other skills, or a Diamond Mind feat which lets you concentrate and get some other benefits.

I think this suggestion is rather sensible. Here's another way to approach it: Making it Martial Lore is going to discourage favoritism and is going to prevent them from gravitating towards concentration and thus Diamond Mind. But if you want that almost hypnotic state as the norm for the class, why not?

~Corvus~
2011-08-07, 06:23 PM
Point of focus looks really cool! I like it a lot. It reminds me of a Wilder's wild surge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/wilder.htm#wildSurge). Actually, the class as a whole reminds me of a ToB-type Wilder with a whole bunch more benefits and better benefits. It's rather cool with the surge, and again the feat retraining idea is super awesome.

Why does this class have good Fortitude or reflex saves? I know, you are like a trained person, but why not good will saves? I see that the class relies upon intense mental training and rigorous physical adaptation and even so, incredible feats of will to retrain themselves completely. They train themselves to be physically adaptive, it seems, and they have the "mental discipline" thing written over them. But are they particularly stated to be exceptionally tough or reflexive beyond their own martial disciplines? :smallwink:

Pechvarry
2011-08-08, 08:47 AM
Hmm...why would i EVER choose a fighter over this class, if I had a choice? Maybe that's a tough question to answer, but... 2 good saves, full BAB and a d10 HD on top of 6+ Int skills is a BIT MUCH.

Just feel the need to toss this out there -- if you're fine with Warblades at your table, the question of "why play fighter at all?" is already moot. This is just the Warblade for builds who need more bonus feats and less of the other stuff.

I'm finding it easier to compare this class to swordsage. If lowered to any 10 class skills, he'll end up with roughly the swordsage's level of skill monkery (which isn't all that high -- neither class has an INT focus) with something like 1/3rd the amount of maneuvers. What does he get to make up the difference? some BAB and a billion bonus feats. He's probably slightly better than Swordsage, but it's pretty universally accepted that Swordsage is the weakest of the 3 ToB classes.

~Corvus~
2011-08-09, 03:53 PM
Just feel the need to toss this out there -- if you're fine with Warblades at your table, the question of "why play fighter at all?" is already moot. This is just the Warblade for builds who need more bonus feats and less of the other stuff.



Fair enough! That's a fine point.



I'm finding it easier to compare this class to swordsage. If lowered to any 10 class skills, he'll end up with roughly the swordsage's level of skill monkery (which isn't all that high -- neither class has an INT focus) with something like 1/3rd the amount of maneuvers. What does he get to make up the difference? some BAB and a billion bonus feats. He's probably slightly better than Swordsage, but it's pretty universally accepted that Swordsage is the weakest of the 3 ToB classes.

Hmm...He has militant lore, a kind of bardic knowledge for anything military. That's great roleplay potential, right there. And he can pick from any skillset and learn from them, not just the swordsage! He's getting Point of Focus, which is a pretty awesome class feature, and I think is a bit better than anything a swordsage is gonna get. +8 to a stat for a little while? And +8 to hit and damage? Yessir, thank you very much! I KILL anything I attack with my Talenta Sharrash and Island in Time for a few rounds, TYVM!

...so tell me again why they need the 6+ int skillpoints? It seems this class focuses more on badassery in combat than a bunch of other skills. Sure, he read a buncha books, but even bards get a limited list. *Shrug* Sure, the class could forget to take jump, but he could just initiate searing charge near the bottom of the cliff and intertia-control his way from death. I would agree that it's just not possible to branch out to other disciplines as a Warblade, but he gets so many bonus feats...

Pechvarry
2011-08-10, 07:35 AM
Hmm...He has militant lore, a kind of bardic knowledge for anything military. That's great roleplay potential, right there. And he can pick from any skillset and learn from them, not just the swordsage! He's getting Point of Focus, which is a pretty awesome class feature, and I think is a bit better than anything a swordsage is gonna get. +8 to a stat for a little while? And +8 to hit and damage? Yessir, thank you very much! I KILL anything I attack with my Talenta Sharrash and Island in Time for a few rounds, TYVM!

...so tell me again why they need the 6+ int skillpoints? It seems this class focuses more on badassery in combat than a bunch of other skills. Sure, he read a buncha books, but even bards get a limited list. *Shrug* Sure, the class could forget to take jump, but he could just initiate searing charge near the bottom of the cliff and intertia-control his way from death. I would agree that it's just not possible to branch out to other disciplines as a Warblade, but he gets so many bonus feats...

Militant Lore for RP is exactly why it's cool for the class. I'm still not entirely convinced he needs 6+int skills anyway, since Point of Focus actually adds to a chosen skill. But my defense for it: Swordsage has 20 class skills. Bard has 24 + Knowledge (all), which amounts to 30 if you just grab the 6 with combat use. Beguilers have 29 class skills, 6+int skills, are INT-reliant (will have tons of bonus skills!) and, oh yeah, can cast 9th level spells. If the militant has 10 class skills, then it makes his 6+int skills exceedingly limited. Get ready to cross-class.

Also, would an enhancement bonus to YOUR attack and damage stack with the enhancement bonus to your WEAPON's attack and damage? My first instinct is no, they're both enhancement bonuses to the same effects, but maybe I'm wrong.

~Corvus~
2011-08-10, 12:41 PM
Militant Lore for RP is exactly why it's cool for the class. I'm still not entirely convinced he needs 6+int skills anyway, since Point of Focus actually adds to a chosen skill. But my defense for it: Swordsage has 20 class skills. Bard has 24 + Knowledge (all), which amounts to 30 if you just grab the 6 with combat use. Beguilers have 29 class skills, 6+int skills, are INT-reliant (will have tons of bonus skills!) and, oh yeah, can cast 9th level spells. If the militant has 10 class skills, then it makes his 6+int skills exceedingly limited. Get ready to cross-class.

This is all metagame logic. I think 10 random skills of choice is awesome. It's the AMOUNT of skills that has me knackered. 6+int is a HUGE amount of skills for a class that learns maneuvers, and Beguilers (I might add) have an exceptionally tailored and restricted list of spells to reflect their nature of deception and control. The huge assortment of skills makes sense for a class that must be deceptive and skilled at a lot of other things: persuasion, intimidation, disguises, opening locks, disabling traps, hiding, moving silently (wow that's 7 skills!) and it doesn't feel finished yet! It's quite believable that a beguiler is going to focus on all of these skills, since he doesn't have the time to do much else.

The Militant here already gets Militant lore, which I would assume takes time to read military strategy, theory, etc. THe militant than focuses on his own combat training and mental training. Does he have time to learn a bunch of other things in a day (6?) I am still leaning to no. Barbarians, Crusaders, and warblades all get 4 + int skills...



Also, would an enhancement bonus to YOUR attack and damage stack with the enhancement bonus to your WEAPON's attack and damage? My first instinct is no, they're both enhancement bonuses to the same effects, but maybe I'm wrong.

Perhaps DM Verandi can give clarification here.