[3.5e/PF] Dread Necromancer - Lich + GHOSTS = ??

[Sir Homeslice]

I'm going to be running a Pathfinder campaign soon because well why the hell not. Problem is, one of the players like the Dread Necromancer from 3.5e. Normally I'd be fine with this, but the player in question wanted to strip the Lich parts of Dread Necromancer and make a GHOSTS version, maybe with some Soul Eater-styled stuff to go with Charnel Touch. Probably with some kind of healing attached to the Charnel Touch (without grabbing TTS/Necropolitan), as they wanted the undead transformation to be a progressive one, involving more Lich-y goodness than having to wait till level 20, or to repeat myself, Tomb Tainted Soul or Necropolitan ASAP.

While I know 3.5e a bit, I am absolute arse at homebrewing and changing crap, so I've come to y'all to either suggest changes to DN to fit the admittedly semi-vague information I've gotten and given, or to show me towards some already created homebrew that'll do what my player wants it to do without giving me a ginormous headache.

[magic9mushroom]

I suggest you take a look at Psion Uncarnate for inspiration as to "slowly becoming incorporeal".

Incidentally, Ghosts are even harder to kill than Liches, so you should be a little careful about letting a PC get Ghost. There's even a Web Enhancement saying you should never allow Ghost unless you've hammered out something that will dissipate the Ghost beforehand, and should even then use it as a temporary thing.

[Sir Homeslice]

I suggest you take a look at Psion Uncarnate for inspiration as to "slowly becoming incorporeal".

Incidentally, Ghosts are even harder to kill than Liches, so you should be a little careful about letting a PC get Ghost. There's even a Web Enhancement saying you should never allow Ghost unless you've hammered out something that will dissipate the Ghost beforehand, and should even then use it as a temporary thing.

I'm not too concerned about what happens at level 20. Also if it were earlier I think it'd be entertaining to think up of ways to challenge the player.

And, the Uncarnate's a pretty nifty idea, thanks. I'll look into that. And point the player in that direction.

[Retech]

Ghosts cannot be killed unless you fufill the reason that it exists.

So there could presumbly be a ghost that wants to nom on cookies but cannot communicate, so decides to go on a murderous rampage to destroy things.

Only CR +2 (equivilant to LA +2 in Pathfinder), so it is pretty cheap.

[Starbuck_II]

Ghosts cannot be killed unless you fufill the reason that it exists.

So there could presumbly be a ghost that wants to nom on cookies but cannot communicate, so decides to go on a murderous rampage to destroy things.

Only CR +2 (equivilant to LA +2 in Pathfinder), so it is pretty cheap.

Um, no, Ghost can be killed. 3.5 Rejuvation is a chance to fail.
Weirdly Pathfinder made Ghost unbeatable with rejuvation.
If you make a Ghost class give 3.5 version rejuvation.

[agahii]

Its a level check so after a certain point it cant fail. Level 15 I think?

[magic9mushroom]

Its a level check so after a certain point it cant fail. Level 15 I think?

Yes.

Level check vs. DC 16 (and since it's a check, not a save or attack roll, no autofails).

In 3d6 it's even worse, impossible once the ghost reaches level 13 and nigh-impossible once they reach level 11.

The only ways to stop rejuve once that check becomes 100% are are 1) remove the Ghost's reason for existence, 2) Hunter of the Dead capstone.

@OP: Oh, also take a look at the Ghost monster class (5 levels in 3.5).

[Coidzor]

I seem to recall seeing some homebrew work on changing the dread necromancer over to ghost in the homebrew section of these forums, actually.

[deuxhero]

Make him a zombie ghost!

>_>


But yeah, make him blow a feat on TTS, but let him retrain it if he become proper undead through some method.

[Jack_Simth]

The only ways to stop rejuve once that check becomes 100% are are 1) remove the Ghost's reason for existence, 2) Hunter of the Dead capstone.

@OP: Oh, also take a look at the Ghost monster class (5 levels in 3.5).
3) Kill it in an anti-magic field (Rejuvenation is Su) (and you can do this because ghosts are not incorporeal when they're on the Ethereal, which they pretty much always are - so you just need to meet them there, cast AMF, and then kill them up close and personal-like. Not easy, mind, but totally doable).
4) Use one of the many non-Fort save, non-[mind-affecting] effects that remove a critter from the game without technically killing it. Shades (Trap the Soul) is a favorite of mine.

[agahii]

Kill with a Thinium weapon?