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Dusk Eclipse
2011-08-03, 09:41 AM
Ok I am trying to build a TWF swordsage; the thing is that I don't want to have to use shadow blade (as I always do) because it locks me weapon choice into daggers (I am planning to take a two level dip into Bloodclaw master). The thing is that I am not sure on what to do.

So any suggestions to make a reliable non dex based swordsage?

Eldariel
2011-08-03, 09:52 AM
Ok I am trying to build a TWF swordsage; the thing is that I don't want to have to use shadow blade (as I always do) because it locks me weapon choice into daggers (I am planning to take a two level dip into Bloodclaw master). The thing is that I am not sure on what to do.

So any suggestions to make a reliable non dex based swordsage?

Wisdom or Strength? Intuitive Attack-based Wisdom SS certainly works very well with the Insightful Strikes class feature and strikes that grant multiple attacks (may be prudent to pick up Pounce for this though).

Sinfonian
2011-08-03, 09:52 AM
Ok I am trying to build a TWF swordsage; the thing is that I don't want to have to use shadow blade (as I always do) because it locks me weapon choice into daggers (I am planning to take a two level dip into Bloodclaw master). The thing is that I am not sure on what to do.

So any suggestions to make a reliable non dex based swordsage?
You may want to think about using a ranger dip so that you might be able to get TWF feat without 15 Dex. Then you can grab Gloves of the Balanced Hand for ITWF. You'd save yourself 2 feats (3 if you include Weapon Finesse) and then you'd be able to base your attacks off of Strength rather than Dex. You won't get the the 3rd iterative for your off-hand, but that's only something that'd come into play at lvl 15 or higher.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-08-03, 10:00 AM
I was considering going with strength, because I don't think I can afford high wisdom and enough strength to have a decent chance to hit.

Using insightful strike (class feature) looks like a good option; but I am not sure if is a good option, as AFAIK most of the multi attack maneuvers are boosts and therefore not applicable for Insightful strike.

I am considering dipping ranger; but I am not sure since that would put me one IL behind (and this game is starting at level 5 so no level 3 maneuvers). Perhaps if I can get the sublime ranger allowed it might be a good option (access to Iron heart is quite tempting)

Sinfonian
2011-08-03, 10:07 AM
Being 1 IL behind isn't that bad. Especially since you'll actually be up by 1 BAB over a straight swordsage. Unlike with spells, being slightly behind on maneuver progression shouldn't be near as much of a hindrance (and you're no further behind than a sorcerer equivalent).

Cog
2011-08-03, 10:30 AM
Is Dragon Compendium available? Diopsids are an awesome race, and get to ignore Dex requirements for TWF feats.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-08-03, 10:38 AM
I think it is; but to be honest I don't really like the Diopsids and I was thinking on going Shifter ( dropping the Int penalty)

Fax Celestis
2011-08-03, 10:43 AM
If you only TWF via maneuvers, you don't even need TWF.

FMArthur
2011-08-03, 10:47 AM
Being a member of the LA +1 Diopsid race from Dragon Compendium spends fewer levels than a Ranger dip if you really want TWF without Dex and the Tiger Claw maneuvers that let you TWF featless are insufficient for you.

Diopsids are beetle-like warrior races from the underdark who fear the surface, so it might be outside your character concept if you've already got one. They ignore Dex requirements from all feats with "Two-Weapon" in them, and possess a pair of weak extra arms that can be used to support weapons held in the main hands - letting you TWF and THF simultaneously - but not really wield anything on their own. It also allows them to wield Large weapons without penalty, meaning that with Oversized TWF your off-hands could wield a one-handed weapon two-handed and upsized to deal the same damage, letting them use their supposedly preferred style without the penalties their racial traits fail to negate. They also have wings that let them slow their falls, darkvision, some natural armor and -2 Dex +2 Con -2 Int ability score adjustments. Quite a solid melee race.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-08-03, 01:08 PM
As I said Diopsid is not an option due flavor (I don't like them) and possibly due the module, DM hinted that most monstrous races would be seen with mistrusts and even outright violence in most towns. So I want to avoid that, still thanks for the suggestion.

Still are there any other options I haven't seen?

FMArthur
2011-08-03, 01:21 PM
Sorry, I started writing that post before diopsids had been mentioned and ended up submitting it after you said no to them.

edit: Gloves of the Balanced Hand have been mentioned already as a way to advance your existing TWF feat into ITWF, but that's an alternate function; the item's primary function is to allow you to fight as if you had the TWF feat. But it's 8000gp, so it might be out of your price range. Still, as a Swordsage you wouldn't even be losing anything from not getting ITWF until 8th level.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-08-03, 01:22 PM
Don't worry, it has happened to me.