Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII [Archive]

Private-Prinny

2011-08-03, 06:54 PM

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef XXIII. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

Contestants: You will need to present your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 11:59PM GMT on Wednesday, August 17th, 2011 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Private-Prinny. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 11:59PM GMT on Wednesday, August 31st, 2011 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.

Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.NAME OF ENTRY
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

2nd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

3rd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

4th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

5th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

6th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

7th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

8th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

9th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

10th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

11th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

12th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

13th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

14th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

15th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

16th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

17th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

18th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

19th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

20th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

CodeNAME OF ENTRY
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

2nd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

3rd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

4th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

5th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

6th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

7th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

8th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

9th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

10th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

11th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

12th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

13th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

14th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

15th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

16th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

17th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

18th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

19th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

20th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
Spells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

CodeSpells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.

Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

This week's special ingredient is:
Complete Divine's Divine Crusader!
We will have trophies for 1st through 3rd places, as well as a special trophy for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

Allez optimiser!

Contestants
DeAnno
AMFV
kestrel404
OMG PONIES
gbprime
Piggy Knowles
term1nally s1ck
Kefkafreak
Hecuba
Vandicus
Groverfield

The Builds
Vald Lokkur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11663884&postcount=122)
Norrin Radd (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11663889&postcount=123)
Mighty Casey (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11663907&postcount=124)
Glimwyn Mardwicket (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11663922&postcount=125)
Mother Teresa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11663929&postcount=126)
Mad Maks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11663945&postcount=127)
Braham (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11663974&postcount=128)
Lord of Misfortune (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11663990&postcount=129)
Uruk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11664000&postcount=130)
Nefarious Tate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11664022&postcount=131)
Sortes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11664034&postcount=132)

Past Competitions

Iron Chef I: Entropomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142470)
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146583)
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148584)
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150595)
Iron Chef V: War Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152543)
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156876)
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158633)
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160266)
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162702)
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164381)
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166539)
Iron Chef XII: War Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9426386)
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172233)
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174434)
Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176049)
Iron Chef XVI: Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202)
Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182492)
Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186097)
Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190607)
Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10976416)
Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198921)
Iron Chef XXII: Dervish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206576)

dextercorvia

2011-08-03, 07:11 PM

Entering or Judging, not sure which yet.

Zaq

2011-08-03, 07:18 PM

Oh god, the low-hanging fruit, it's everywhere. I wonder if I can find the time to make two builds for this . . . one with all the obvious but powerful tricks, and one avoiding them like the cliché. We'll see.

Either way, I'm very interested in this, and I'll probably either judge or enter.

The_Werebear

2011-08-03, 08:08 PM

I'll go ahead and throw my hat in the ring. Mark me as a contestant.

Tam_OConnor

2011-08-03, 08:13 PM

I stand ready to judge these mortal builds.

My criteria: General Notes: I start at 3, and add or subtract form there. Also, make sure to give me sources, especially on your deity of choice.

Originality: Relying on one of the classes the prestige class description recommends will generally earn you a three. Using well-known combinations (Wiz 5/PrC 10/Archmage 5, Shock Trooper/Leap Attack, etc) will merit deductions, while new and original stuff will obviously earn more. At the same time, though, there should be some wriggle room. If you get too Special Snowflake, then a deduction is possible.

Power: I judge on a relative scale, as per Zeal's PrC tier ranking. Building on a wizard chassis won't automatically earn you more points; it'll just raise into competition with other prestige classes for wizards (it might score you points on originality, though).

Elegance: How easy is it to follow the progression of your build? Generally, it's possible to recoup lost points by explaining the in-game logic behind your dips, or unfinished PrCs, or what have you. Rule mistakes will generally hit you here.

Use of Secret Ingredient: What do you do with the secret ingredient once you're in it? What new tricks do you find lurking in the crunch? I also tend to be unforgiving with later entry.

Urpriest

2011-08-03, 08:16 PM

The Dark Fiddler

2011-08-03, 08:24 PM

Stix

2011-08-03, 08:27 PM

I'm in i'll get a build together for this should be fun for a first try

TroubleBrewing

2011-08-03, 08:29 PM

I think I might be able to compete this time. Posting interest in competing!

Private-Prinny

2011-08-03, 08:39 PM

This class has a lot of controversy to it. Can we get a ruling as to what can and cannot add spells to its list? I've heard it argued that they can only add spells to their lists if they can get additional domains, but I've also heard it said that even that doesn't work because their casting is limited to a single domain. In order for this competition to work we'd probably need a complete rephrasing of the class's spellcasting to remove all ambiguity. Otherwise the rules disputes will swamp the rest of the scores.

That's probably a good idea, although the text is fairly explicit...

Deity and Domain: Every divine crusader has a chosen deity. Sample deities are provided on Table 3–7: Deities, page 32 of the Player’s Handbook, and also in Chapter 5 of this book. A divine crusader’s chosen deity influences her alignment, what magic she can perform, her values, and how others see her. The character’s alignment and her deity’s alignment must match exactly.
A divine crusader chooses one domain from among those offered by that deity to his or her clerics and gains the granted power of the domain. (If the domain granted power includes the addition of a skill or skills to the cleric class skill list, add it to the class skill list for the divine crusader instead.) The divine crusader also gains the ability to cast spells from that domain (see below).
Spells per Day: A divine crusader casts divine spells. She may only prepare and cast spells from her chosen domain (see above). Effectively, a divine crusader has a class spell list of only nine spells (one per spell level).
To prepare or cast a spell, a divine crusader must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The difficulty class for a saving throw against a divine crusader’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the divine crusader’s Cha modifier. The divine crusader also gets bonus spells based on her Charisma.
A divine crusader prepares and casts spells as a cleric, except that she cannot spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells.

By RAW, a Divine Crusader can only cast spells of the one domain that they chose at first level. There is no wiggle room because of that sentence.

dextercorvia

2011-08-03, 09:13 PM

That's probably a good idea, although the text is fairly explicit...

By RAW, a Divine Crusader can only cast spells of the one domain that they chose at first level. There is no wiggle room because of that sentence.

Does this mean that if a Divine Crusader has spellcasting from a different source (say Wizard levels) they may no longer use that once taking a level of Divine Crusader?

Private-Prinny

2011-08-03, 09:15 PM

Does this mean that if a Divine Crusader has spellcasting from a different source (say Wizard levels) they may no longer use that once taking a level of Divine Crusader?

Only if you're also willing to make the argument that a Wizard who took a Divine Crusader level would have his casting stat changed to Charisma.

DeAnno

2011-08-03, 09:31 PM

I'll definitely be competing, but I'm not sure what to do yet. Decisions, decisions.

TwylyghT

2011-08-03, 09:40 PM

Was there ever any official word on planar domains and the Divine Crusader?

I know clerics have to count it as both starting domains but I have never seen anything regarding other classes or abilities that grant domains not having access to them normally.

Zaq

2011-08-03, 10:33 PM

That's probably a good idea, although the text is fairly explicit...

By RAW, a Divine Crusader can only cast spells of the one domain that they chose at first level. There is no wiggle room because of that sentence.

Huh. This just got a lot harder, and a lot more interesting. Way to sweep at least half of that low-hanging fruit I mentioned over to the side.

Devil's advocate time: PHB pg. 32 says "When a cleric prepares a spell in a domain spell slot, it must come from one of his two domains." It would be no stretch to say, then, that that sentence makes it impossible for Clerics who snag a third domain (from one of many well-known sources) to prep spells from it. Thoughts? (There's also a "specific vs. general" argument in there somewhere, but I'll let someone else make it.)

(For the record, I'm totally cool with hard-limiting them to that one domain, but I want to play devil's advocate and make sure we explore ALL the rules options before we get too deep into this.)

dextercorvia

2011-08-03, 10:49 PM

Several of the options that would add spells seem to set up a specific vs. general dilemma. Sand Shaper was the first one that I checked. It says that you can prepare and cast them like spells you have access to.

Like Zaq said, I can play it either way. I would just like to know if we are playing it as no you can't add stuff to their casting options. No not even then. Or, is it more like Unless you find the ability that is worded just right?

Also, are Divine Crusader slots considered domain slots or not?

Lord.Sorasen

2011-08-03, 11:14 PM

Hi everyone, first time here, I'd like to compete as well maybe! I always wanted to try the one domain spellcaster out a bit.

BillyBobJoe

2011-08-03, 11:39 PM

I will gladly offer my services as a judge, to see what the other half of this competition is like after I bombed my first competition entrance.

BobVosh

2011-08-03, 11:52 PM

I don't think I'm going to try for this contest, because I don't actually own CD, but what exactly is expected of a judge? Are they more-or-less required to be good at optimizing, and own like 90% of the books, or would somebody like me who only has the basics of op-fu and has maybe 8 books be acceptable?

All sorts are welcomed to judging, but I think it would be best to actually own the book of the SI. Unless this is one on the wizard site or something.

I think I will compete, maybe for once I will finish a build and not get discouraged after looking at Akal's or OMG's previous entries :P

I will gladly offer my services as a judge, to see what the other half of this competition is like after I bombed my first competition entrance.

Don't get too disheartened, I liked the thought of going for a ranged dervish simply due to the sheer cheekiness of it. Too bad it doesn't work :'(

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-03, 11:54 PM

Awww.... no Sovereign Speaker Shenanigans...

Count me as a judge for this one.

My criteria:

Originality - Would I have seen this coming? Have I seen this before? If so, expect deductions. I don't count you down in this if several people had the same unexpected trick, I'll simply give everyone who used that unexpected trick the same bonus.

Power - This is going to be a fairly high bar, since you've got a 9th level spell. The ones with a higher score here are going to be the ones who can synergize well and get the most out of their spells. Keep in mind that being one-dimensional and having a trick that is easily foiled will cost you points here. One of the key things I am looking for is 'can this character handle a random immunity without risking getting nerfed badly'. I will also be looking for a character who, despite only having 9 spells per day, can contribute meaningfully in the daily recommended dose of four fights, so staying power is also going to be considered.

Elegance - Dips will be penalized, simply because they are almost completely unnecessary to qualify. The requirements can be done by any level Warrior (yes, the NPC class), so you shouldn't need three classes to get here. Questionable rules judgements will be made in the most unfair manner possible. If your GM is actively looking for ways to ban your build on a mechanical invalidation, would he swing the ban-bat at this? If so, I will almost certainly deduct here. No strongheart vests for Hellfire blast, etc...

Because of the rules clarification (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11563669&postcount=10), any attempt to gain bonus domains to increase your spell list will result in a flat 0 in this score for failure to read the rules. Of course, you're probably not reading this anyways if that is the case, so it's probably a pointless clarification, but hey... at least when someone complains, I can point here and look all smug like any judge should.

Use of Secret Ingredient - I'm not only looking for 'did you take all 10 levels', but I'm looking at 'how are you using each and every single one of your 9 spells known to their utmost' AND 'did you leverage your domain ability'. After all, what's the point in having spells and a domain ability if you never use 'em? Most of the other class abilities are fairly passive, so aggressive use of spells will certainly help this score as well as Power.

The_Werebear

2011-08-04, 01:41 AM

Quick question involving racial substitution levels. Do skills added by the substitution levels count as class skills for all level of that class, or only for the specific substitution levels? It has some bearing on where I go with my build.

Groverfield

2011-08-04, 01:43 AM

I am in as a pin for the win
Edit:As contestant

DeAnno

2011-08-04, 02:23 AM

I just had a demoralizing couple hours where it seemed like the entire D&D pantheon was actively opposing what I was trying to do. I think I might need a new plan :smalltongue:

Aside from that, two general things have been on my mind:

1)All these builds are going to have a tendency to be very vulnerable to Dispel Magic due to the low caster level. I'm not entirely sure how practical devoting enough resources to fix that problem could even be, so a lot of people may have to live with it.

2)Do judges think it makes sense to penalize heavily (in UoSI) builds that PRC out of Divine Crusader into another casting PRC and still get all 10 caster levels? Optimization wise you don't really lose anything (it could be argued that sticking around is pointlessly bad ala Sorcerer 20), and the Divine Crusader is still there in spirit. You get all of the class features it has worth mentioning, you just miss out on the HD.

BobVosh

2011-08-04, 02:28 AM

2)Do judges think it makes sense to penalize heavily (in UoSI) builds that PRC out of Divine Crusader into another casting PRC and still get all 10 caster levels? Optimization wise you don't really lose anything (it could be argued that sticking around is pointlessly bad ala Sorcerer 20), and the Divine Crusader is still there in spirit. You get all of the class features it has worth mentioning, you just miss out on the HD.

Traditionally you will get hit hard for not finishing a SI. This is after all about finishing a suboptimal PrC and making it look as good as you can.

So if you think it will make it all up in power, originality, and elegance, go for it.

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-04, 02:40 AM

yugi24862

2011-08-04, 04:07 AM

Stuff that increases your Spell list allows you to use spell trigger items with those spells, even if you cant cast those spells using DC right?

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-04, 06:49 AM

Stuff that increases your Spell list allows you to use spell trigger items with those spells, even if you cant cast those spells using DC right?

Judges might frown heavily on that with regard to Elegance and UoSI... at least I would.

Of course, if you can get access to it before getting into DC, then at least you won't take the hit to Elegance, since you got it legitimately. But you've got to prove that DC is the focus of the build to avoid hits in UoSI...

kestrel404

2011-08-04, 06:52 AM

Interesting. I'll have to think about this one...

Amphetryon

2011-08-04, 08:53 AM

I'm debating whether to enter or judge this one. I'll try to decide by the end of the day.

WinWin

2011-08-04, 08:58 AM

By RAW, a Divine Crusader can only cast spells of the one domain that they chose at first level. There is no wiggle room because of that sentence.

Plenty of options modify base casting or grant access to spells as though they are on a class spell list. Specific trumps general, so a specific RAW option could trump general DC spell preperation, depending on the exact text of options utilized.

Even so, I think that a proper explaination of how extra spells are added (if any) to a DC's domain list would probably be advantageous for a submission, IMO.

Unless you're pandering to RAW nonsense like quantum dragon disciples and Ur Priests forsaking the ability to cast Ur priest spells by taking levels in Ur priest, it would be unwise to make any rigid determinations of build legality before anyone has submitted an entry.

just my opinion. Feel free to disregard it.

AMFV

2011-08-04, 10:04 AM

Put me in as a contestant. I have watched a few of these and am finally interested in the SI.

Hecuba

2011-08-04, 01:04 PM

I'll try my hand at this one. These things always seem useful when I mine them for ideas, and I like this class in general.

Private-Prinny

2011-08-04, 05:37 PM

For a RAW answer about the Divine Crusader's spell list, I sent a PM to Curmudgeon. That should clear up any issues.

Piggy Knowles

2011-08-04, 06:49 PM

OK, I think I will actually enter this one, instead of just saying I will like last competition. I've got a pretty strong concept already, and it has overall come together already in my head, which is a good start...

This is a lot of fun, I've never really looked at Divine Crusader as a class, instead of just as a dip!

Zaq

2011-08-04, 07:56 PM

Yeah. I've got a few interesting domains in mind. I expect to see at least one other person use one of them, which is why it's low on my "interesting stuff" list. There's one with fantastic flavor that I really want to get working, but I'm not confident that I can pull off the crunch.

The more I think about it, the more I like the whole "no, you can't just get other domains" thing. That way it becomes more about working with one domain than a race to expand your spells list as wide as possible.

BillyBobJoe

2011-08-04, 09:23 PM

Actually, I've been think, and I think I'll compete instead of judging.

OMG PONIES

2011-08-05, 07:02 AM

I think I will compete, maybe for once I will finish a build and not get discouraged after looking at Akal's or OMG's previous entries :P

Pish to the posh! If you want to feel better about yourself, look no farther than Felix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9111601&postcount=108) or Perpetua (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10359362&postcount=108). Not all of my builds win medals :smallbiggrin:.

Don't get too disheartened, I liked the thought of going for a ranged dervish simply due to the sheer cheekiness of it. Too bad it doesn't work :'(

I second that emotion! I was actually angry when I found the clause in Complete Warrior saying you had to use melee attacks.

Plenty of options modify base casting or grant access to spells as though they are on a class spell list. Specific trumps general, so a specific RAW option could trump general DC spell preperation, depending on the exact text of options utilized.

I think that we do need to develop a party line for this competition, so that everyone can at least start on the same page.

Oh, and I'll be competing. There's an optimization domain, right?

kestrel404

2011-08-05, 07:42 AM

...Why the heck is the Divine Crusader a PREPARED caster?!? They've only got 1 known spell per level - why do they have to prep that?

Well that kills my first build idea...

Kefkafreak

2011-08-05, 07:54 AM

I think I'll compete this time. I have an... original idea. At the very least I might be a serious contender for honorable mention :smallbiggrin:

Zaq

2011-08-05, 08:38 AM

Sooooo many half-tricks floating around in my brain. Why won't they coalesce?

OMG PONIES

2011-08-05, 08:41 AM

Sooooo many half-tricks floating around in my brain. Why won't they coalesce?

I feel your pain. I could fill a stable with all the one-trick ponies I've thought of for this round so far...let's see if I can make anything decent.

Zaq

2011-08-05, 08:48 AM

Part of the problem, for me at least, is that I don't have too many domains memorized, so I can't brainstorm too terribly much if I'm not actually at my books. Other ingredients? Yeah, I might not have all the details down, but I can at least think of big-picture stuff and fun tricks. The DC basically is its domain, though, so without knowing exactly how that's going to work, I can't come up with too many useful ideas on the bus, you know?

Private-Prinny

2011-08-05, 09:18 AM

I got a response from Curmudgeon about the RAW of the matter.

What ways, if any, are legal methods of adding spells to a Divine Crusader's spell list?
None. From page 34 of Complete Divine:

Spells per Day: A divine crusader casts divine spells. She may only prepare and cast spells from her chosen domain (see above). Effectively, a divine crusader has a class spell list of only nine spells (one per spell level).
If you want more spells, you've got to go outside the prestige class.

In addition, is it possible for a Divine Crusader to take a planar domain? No. From page 282 of Spell Compendium:

A planar domain counts as both of a cleric’s domain choices. A Divine Crusader doesn't have two domain choices, and isn't a Cleric.

So my original ruling stands.

OMG PONIES

2011-08-05, 11:48 AM

So my original ruling stands.

:smallconfused: But it seems like Curmudgeon contradicted you...

By RAW, a Divine Crusader can only cast spells of the one domain that they chose at first level. There is no wiggle room because of that sentence.

sounds very different than

If you want more spells, you've got to go outside the prestige class.

EDIT: Are we saying that divine crusaders can never ever have any spells outside of their one domain? Or are we saying that simply adding domains doesn't add spells to the Divine Crusader's list, but only prestige classes, feats, etc. that contain a clause like "you can add these spells to your spell list?"

Private-Prinny

2011-08-05, 12:11 PM

EDIT: Are we saying that divine crusaders can never ever have any spells outside of their one domain? Or are we saying that simply adding domains doesn't add spells to the Divine Crusader's list, but only prestige classes, feats, etc. that contain a clause like "you can add these spells to your spell list?"

Curmudgeon can clear this up if he sees it, but I'm almost certain that he's saying that if you want more spells, you have to get separate slots for them from a different source. Adding stuff to the Divine Crusader spell list doesn't work.

kestrel404

2011-08-05, 12:24 PM

I'm not sure that's really a valid argument, though. The class doesn't state that there's no way to add spells to your spell list, only that the class spell list consists of a very few specific spells.

Spells per Day: A divine crusader casts divine spells. She may only prepare and cast spells from her chosen domain (see above). Effectively, a divine crusader has a class spell list of only nine spells (one per spell level).

The only reason to argue is the text immediately before that stating that the Divine Crusader may "only prepare" spells from the chosen domain - implying that even if new spells are added to the spell list, they may not be prepared. But the text right after that which states that this is just so that they "Effectively...has a class spell list of" just those spells also implies, equally strongly, that any ability that adds spells to a class spell list would over-ride the previous statement.

Basically, it's a semantic wash. Bad editing at it's finest. A GM could interpret it either way, in my opinion.

If we're going to make a ruling, let's leave out the absolutes. How about anyone who relies on adding spells to the class spell list gets penalized in Elegance, the same as though they had taken a flaw? You're not breaking RAW, since the RAW is ambiguous, but you're also not necessarily going to get the character past every GM either.

Hope that helps.

Vulaas

2011-08-05, 12:35 PM

My big question for this challenge is if domain granted abilities that reference cleric level will have minimum 1, or be entirely useless to you.

Amphetryon

2011-08-05, 01:41 PM

I suppose I'll sign on as a judge for this one.

MY CRITERIA: When more than a single example is given for a score, not all examples need be met to warrant that score.

Originality: Originality looks in part at the established archetypes and builds that the community at large has produced over the years. Characters attempting to perform, yet less adept at performing, as a well-established archetype - for instance, a charger - than typical for that archetype will score lower here than characters attempting to break new ground. Examples of a given score -
5 - A new concept, necessitating the Divine Crusader PrC.
4 - A new concept, using Divine Crusader without requiring it to tick.
3 - An unusual concept that has been showcased on gaming forums before, or that is featured in other contest entrants. It’s not new, but it’s not stock standard either.
2 - An old reliable concept, substituting Divine Crusader for the one typically used in discussions of builds of this type.
1 - A build either cut and pasted or cobbled together entirely from extant handbooks and other known works. No new ideas are presented.

Power: Power is measured assuming a 1st - 20th campaign. Characters that come to power very late in the progression, or that are somehow ineligible to play at low levels, can expect a deduction here as surely as characters whose power peaks at low-to-mid levels and then relatively diminishes. Examples of a given score, relative to other entrants in the contest -
5 - Easily the most powerful, flexible build presented here.
4 - A powerful character that might need help or additional preparation in specific circumstances to continue to do its job well.
3 - A build that is of average power for the contest, neither significantly stronger nor appreciably weaker overall. It may dominate in niche cases or be rendered weak in other niche cases.
2 - While less powerful than the typical entry for this contest, the character manages to contribute reasonably without relying on help from other party members.
1 - The build struggles to perform to the expectations typical for a character in the role assigned. Either the character relies heavily on help from other party members or requires specific equipment not restricted to the given role in order to be useful.

Elegance: Note that I tie the Elegance score closely to the Secret Ingredient. Shifter Druid 18/Moonspeaker 2 may be simple, but it is not an elegant use of Moonspeaker, to my mind. Note also that my default assumption is that characters presented are being inserted into an already-established world. A character that requires the DM to rewrite or ignore large swaths of existing fluff for your concept to work is unlikely to score highly in Elegance. References to Unearthed Arcana include those aspects of Unearthed Arcana that are included in the Variant section of the SRD. If I have to go hunting through books just to figure out where you got a particular feat, item, template, or obscure skill usage, expect no more than a 2 in Elegance. Examples of a given score -
5 - Divine Crusader is entered appropriately early and taken to completion. All class levels, feats, skills, and disclosed items are smoothly tied together and progress the whole concept seamlessly and in a logical order. Favored Class rules are adhered to, and single-level dips are kept to a bare minimum - no more than one. No Unearthed Arcana, templates, LA or Racial HD, or other obvious power-oriented shenanigans were used. One could reasonably expect a majority of DMs to allow both the concept and progression to happen in a typical game.
4 - Divine Crusader is entered reasonably early, perhaps delayed a bit or taken piecemeal, but finished. All class levels, feats, skills, and disclosed items are useful, but may not be intuitive choices to augment the presented concept. No Unearthed Arcana, templates, LA or Racial HD, or other obvious shenanigans were used, though Favored Class rules may have been ignored. One might expect to have to explain some bits of the build fairly carefully to a DM and possibly work out some accommodations, but flying books or dice bags are unlikely.
3 - Divine Crusader is taken to completion, but entered later than expected or typical of this contest. Class levels, feats, skills, and disclosed items are taken in a disjointed fashion, perhaps indicating power is more important than concept. This character may use a race with a level adjustment for thematic reasons, or be forced to take a flaw or two to fit everything in, or use some other method of grabbing more feats or spells or other features than one would typically expect. One would have to work closely with the DM for some features of the presented build to be available, work as described in the build presented, or come online in a timely fashion, and wouldn’t necessarily expect to get this character approved by a DM that doesn’t know the player well.
2 - Divine Crusader is abandoned before reaching its capstone or entered too late to finish before Epic levels. Class levels, feats, skills, and disclosed items do not share a unifying theme or work toward a more powerful whole. A template and LA are both included, possibly with flaws. Without an established rapport with a DM, one would expect the concept to meet with enough resistance that having a Plan B is advised when pitching the idea.
1 - Vivacious Anthropomorphic Dire Were-Squid Half-Fiend Domain Wizard with Frail and Inattentive and. . . no. Just no. So many discordant templates and feats and ideas have been slapped together that ‘a Wizard did it’ is the only viable explanation for the character’s existence. Divine Crusader appears to have been an afterthought to the overall design. You would fully expect the character idea either to be rejected by the DM, or to have come into being entirely through the DM’s meddling with your character, and wouldn’t broach the subject with the DM if dice, books or other potential projectiles were within easy reach.

Use of Secret Ingredient: This is a conglomeration of how well, and how thoroughly, you incorporate the abilities of the Secret Ingredient into the build. Examples of a given score, relative to other entrants -
5 - A fresh, original usage maximizing the particular strengths and minimizing the particular weaknesses of the Divine Crusader. Every aspect of Divine Crusader is utilized in the best way of any entry presented.
4 - A solid, complete usage of Divine Crusader. Specific strengths of the Secret Ingredient were emphasized with minimal emphasis taken away from other strengths, or without negating known weaknesses.
3 - Use of Divine Crusader was typical for the contest. Synergies were not emphasized especially, and some features of the Divine Crusader were ignored for the sake of maximizing a particular trick or two. If the main trick you're highlighting is the particular domain you're using, don't expect higher than a 3 here.
2 - Others used the Divine Crusader more thoroughly, but this entry’s usage wasn’t bad. The overall concept works but doesn’t especially synergize with the Divine Crusader's strengths well. If the main trick you're highlighting is based on your other class(es), don't expect higher than a 2 here.
1 - The Divine Crusader is actively hindering the concept presented. Clearly the character would have been stronger with a different Prestige Class, and the Divine Crusader got shoe-horned in there because of the contest.
Please note that, for my judging, Curmudgeon's ruling will be considered RAW.

gbprime

2011-08-05, 01:42 PM

There seem to be enough judges, so I'm entering this time around. I've got a cool idea or three.

OMG PONIES

2011-08-05, 01:43 PM

My big question for this challenge is if domain granted abilities that reference cleric level will have minimum 1, or be entirely useless to you.

It just keeps getting better. I think abilities that reference cleric level are quite clear--some specifically list a minimum of one, while the others would be completely useless. I'm intrigued to see how people will really get this class to work, since adding spells and abusing domain granted powers is becoming difficult.

Weapon Specialization optimization?

gbprime

2011-08-05, 01:45 PM

My big question for this challenge is if domain granted abilities that reference cleric level will have minimum 1, or be entirely useless to you.

It also doesn't say what the Divine Crusader's caster level is. While I think we can safely assume it equals the levels in the PrC, I'd be inclined to play it safe on things that reference cleric level. IMO, either avoid them or don't rely on them, because odds are at least 1 judge will have a different opinion on it than you. :smallamused:

Amphetryon

2011-08-05, 01:53 PM

Weapon Specialization optimization?
Sure, if you feel that Divine Crusader optimizes Weapon Specialization better than other classes that get access to it. :smallwink:

DeAnno

2011-08-05, 04:54 PM

It just keeps getting better. I think abilities that reference cleric level are quite clear--some specifically list a minimum of one, while the others would be completely useless. I'm intrigued to see how people will really get this class to work, since adding spells and abusing domain granted powers is becoming difficult.

Weapon Specialization optimization?

It was especially funny how the Transformation Domain (excellent for gishing) was specifically worded to prevent Divine Crusader from entering it :smallwink:

Zaq

2011-08-05, 07:02 PM

Quick question: If we want a domain that's not usually associated with any deities, what Weapon Focus do we take? For example, I can't find a source for some of the domains listed in the Spell Compendium (I won't say which, for fear of influencing people and/or tipping my hand). MOST of them are in CDiv, but not ALL of them. I see four options, none of which I really like:

1) Pick an existing deity, write a brief but cogent argument for why that deity should have that domain, and go from there. This is probably the best of the four, but it treads a little bit far from RAW for comfort.

2) Burn a feat on Weapon Focus without specifying what it is or gaining any specific benefit from it. You've paid the cost of entry, even if you don't get the usual secondary benefit. I don't like this because of how amazingly flavorless it ends up being.

3) Pick another domain. This will make me sad for reasons that should be obvious.

4) Use the "generic alignment" weapons and devote yourself to your alignment, which just happens to include your domain. (I think the generic associations are found under the Spiritual Weapon spell and possibly in Complete Champion). This is basically combining the problems with #1 and #2.

Any thoughts, judges and entrants?

dextercorvia

2011-08-05, 07:22 PM

I think all of the domains presented in the Spell Compendium appeared somewhere else first. That would probably be the best place to check for affiliated dieties.

Zaq

2011-08-05, 07:27 PM

Thurbane

2011-08-05, 07:29 PM

This list (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/ASMoNM/domains.html) compiled by Curmudgeon is very useful.

SowZ

2011-08-05, 07:43 PM

I may do this if I have the time.

Amphetryon

2011-08-05, 07:47 PM

BillyBobJoe

2011-08-05, 08:00 PM

It's difficult to try to think of both an original, yet powerful domain. I was going to go for the Spell domain, when I realized ANYSPELL DOESN'T WORK WITH A DIVINE CRUSADER!!! :smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

Urpriest

2011-08-05, 08:25 PM

Zaq,

One of the Seven Deadly Sins domains? If so, they're meant or an alternate monotheistic-ish setting anyway, so assume you live there. Maybe grab the favored weapon of one of the dualistic gods in Deities and Demigods.

Incidentally, while this is unlikely, if you're doing Swallow Whole Optimization with the Gluttony Domain I will love you forever.

Ssertrous. Is Ssertrous a deity? Does it matter?

DeAnno

2011-08-05, 09:22 PM

Argh. I'm trying to be evasive and not make it immediately obvious which domain I'm using.

Assuming that there is, in fact, such a domain that doesn't actually have any associated deities, what then?

If a domain explicitly has no deities (such as the Transformation Domain), a Divine Crusader can't take it. Unlike a Cleric, you can't just worship the forces of Lawful Neutrality to suit your domain/alignment/general skeeze needs. All the Spell Compendium Domains have sources, and in those sources those domains have gods that provide them.

I've been tempted while building things to try to argue that the God of XYZ has the XYZ domain even though he doesn't actually have it (due to it being from a different obscure source than the god), but that'll probably provoke massive deductions so I'm avoiding it.

flabort

2011-08-05, 09:24 PM

term1nally s1ck

2011-08-05, 09:41 PM

Competing. Gonna be interesting to see what I can do with it.

EDIT: Got most of my build sorted. Kind of exciting, and I'm pretty convinced it's basically unique.

Zaq

2011-08-05, 09:53 PM

If a domain explicitly has no deities (such as the Transformation Domain), a Divine Crusader can't take it. Unlike a Cleric, you can't just worship the forces of Lawful Neutrality to suit your domain/alignment/general skeeze needs. All the Spell Compendium Domains have sources, and in those sources those domains have gods that provide them.

I've been tempted while building things to try to argue that the God of XYZ has the XYZ domain even though he doesn't actually have it (due to it being from a different obscure source than the god), but that'll probably provoke massive deductions so I'm avoiding it.

A fair argument . . . but what if it explicitly says "None. Clerics of any deity may take this domain." instead?

gbprime

2011-08-05, 10:02 PM

A fair argument . . . but what if it explicitly says "None. Clerics of any deity may take this domain." instead?

Well that's pretty clear. You chose a deity, and that deity can offer that domain.

DeAnno

2011-08-05, 10:45 PM

I'd agree that in that case you're all set (and in fact in great position, not being hedged into one alignment/deity.)

Z3ro

2011-08-07, 11:20 AM

Hate spellcasters in general and want to judge. This seems like a no-brainer; count me in as a judge. No criteria yet, I'll just make it up as I go along.

BobVosh

2011-08-09, 01:36 AM

Psst. What happened to the Side Dish competition? Where the entrants statted popular characters?

Is anyone willing to run a Dessert Competition as well? Where a homebrew class from here on GitP is the secret ingredient?

We could have 3 competitions at once: Main course (This), Side Dish (Spin-off, can't find it), and Dessert (Spin-off, not existing yet).

Or have people run multiple IC competitions at once and found it too hard to handle?

Psst. Hey buddy I got your back. It is right here, got what you need (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11591909#post11591909) I made it a really long competition as I recognized that it is a spin off so in order to get a lot of applicants for a first time I would need to extend the deadline a bit.

Z3ro: It would be kinda nice to see what you want so we can try to customized a bit or stay away from barbarian as you hate it. No, I don't know what your feelings towards ragers are, if any.

OMG PONIES

2011-08-09, 07:01 AM

Z3ro: It would be kinda nice to see what you want so we can try to customized a bit or stay away from barbarian as you hate it. No, I don't know what your feelings towards ragers are, if any.

Even beyond that, it's nice to give the competitors an idea of your judging rubric for two reasons:

It gives them an idea of WHY you gave a certain deduction, even if your notes don't make it explicitly clear.
I've found that, as a judge, abiding by my posted rubric ensures that my scores are more consistent across the board.

Not saying that you have to, just my 2 cp on why I think even a quick set of criteria is a good thing.

Z3ro

2011-08-09, 01:08 PM

Since it has been requested several times, here's some criteria.

OriginalityThis category has two main components; was your build similar to any of the other builds submitted, and was it similar to any well-known builds. In addition, I will penalize your build if it uses obvious tricks in obvious ways or well-known exploits in expected ways. Bonus points for things that haven't been thought of before (or at least with respect to the secret ingredient) and for using known tricks in unusual ways.

PowerHow does your build stack up, power wise, to other builds focusing on similar objectives. Power in this category includes flexibility and versatility as well as straight combat power. This category will also measure power from level 1-20; a build will be penalized if it is excessively weak or unplayable at lower levels but ramp up later. Bonus points will be given if most or all of a build's power come from tricks involving the secret ingredient.

EleganceThe toughest category to judge and assess, I judge elegance as how well the build flows together. Dipping will be penalized, but dips that make thematic sense (ranger dipping barbarian) will be penalized less than dips that do not (rogue dipping paladin). More importantly, the build should make sense at all levels, 1-20. Abilities that are useless at the level they are taken, but come on line later, will be penalized. Maintaining flavor and flow through the build will be rewarded.

Use of the Secret IngredientIf elegance is the hardest to judge, this is probably the easiest. Did your taking the secret ingredient make sense? Did you take all 10 levels? How many of the abilities granted did you use, and how essential are they to your build? And probably most importantly, would your build be better off with another class, rather than the secret ingredient?

Kefkafreak

2011-08-11, 02:02 AM

My build is finally coming together :smallbiggrin:

It should be done by today, or maybe tomorrow. I have to say it's turning out better than I initially expected.

DeAnno

2011-08-11, 02:30 AM

This competition has truly proven to me that if you want to solve a problem in 3.5e, all you have to do is throw hours and hours of research at it.

OMG PONIES

2011-08-11, 09:33 AM

I've just stumbled across my two build ideas. Neither one is going to wow anyone, but I'm just hoping that I'll make up for it in style points.

Piggy Knowles

2011-08-11, 10:00 AM

My build's done and formatted, I just need to write up the fluff. Maybe I'll even have time to put together a second!

term1nally s1ck

2011-08-11, 10:39 AM

Done, just fluffing. Remarkably snazzy, if I do say so myself. My only issue is if a different class could do it better....but I don't know of any others that could get me 9ths, and the correct spells.

gbprime

2011-08-11, 01:06 PM

I've got two builds, trying to decide between them.

I predict a whole awful lot of one base class this time around. Let's see if I'm right.

kestrel404

2011-08-11, 01:30 PM

I've got two builds, trying to decide between them.

I predict a whole awful lot of one base class this time around. Let's see if I'm right.

Are you predicting one particular class will show up a lot, or mono-class entry? I could see both being true.

Vandicus

2011-08-11, 04:16 PM

I'd like to try my hand at this. Do we also include crucial items in the build?

gbprime

2011-08-11, 04:20 PM

Are you predicting one particular class will show up a lot, or mono-class entry? I could see both being true.

One particular class. I'll withhold further comment until the builds are posted.

cd4

2011-08-11, 04:24 PM

It would be best if you include the required items and a wish list of any other items the character would like. However if your character needs something that is not very common to function with whatever trick(s) you are using then most judges will penalize you somewhere.

term1nally s1ck

2011-08-11, 04:36 PM

BillyBobJoe

2011-08-11, 05:07 PM

If your character needs something to function no matter how common, it seems that they get punished. I recall a drunken master build that was penalised half a point by most judges for not being very effective without any stat boosting items.

Obviously, this doesn't always apply in the case of mundane or items necessary to the PrC. You wouldn't penalize a Drunken Master because it needs lots of mundane booze, now would you?

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-11, 05:08 PM

I'd like to try my hand at this. Do we also include crucial items in the build?

Absolute dependency on items can take a hit, either in power or elegance.

Absolute dependency on an item to qualify for something (for example, using a Ring of Evasion to qualify for a PrC that requires evasion) is at least a full point off elegance, if not more, as it is very rules-dodgy, and some GM's won't let you get away with it...

Zaq

2011-08-11, 06:41 PM

I've got two builds sketched out (one kinda risky, one a little blander and a little safer). Hopefully, I'll get one or both in submittable form by the deadline, but since I'm going out of town on Saturday, no guarantees. (Of course, I might have some free time while I'm there, but who knows?)

AMFV

2011-08-13, 11:45 AM

Build submitted. It's pretty awesome and I think it'll be fairly unique thematically.

BinaryMage

2011-08-13, 07:36 PM

Are you still looking for judges? I'm not sure I have time to finish a build, but I would definitely be willing to judge.

Kefkafreak

2011-08-14, 05:30 AM

Writing the backstory took a while longer than expected (English is not my first language) but I'm almost done. I'll submit it later today. I hope no one else had the same idea. :smallbiggrin:

BillyBobJoe

2011-08-14, 01:01 PM

I'm still judging this, after an inability to think up a build that wouldn't be better off taking some other prestige class.

Zaq

2011-08-14, 01:09 PM

If I don't manage to finish by the deadline, is there a chance that I can still judge, or is that something I have to declare before the deadline?

It's still a toss-up as to whether I'll finish, since I am, as I said, out of town. Not out of the question, but far from guaranteed.

Kefkafreak

2011-08-14, 04:39 PM

Submitted. I'm not sure if it's too weird to be useful, but it's original for sure.

Vandicus

2011-08-14, 11:50 PM

Submitted. Really curious as to what everyone else came up with.

BobVosh

2011-08-15, 01:16 AM

Dropped, I haven't had time oddly.

OMG PONIES

2011-08-15, 08:26 AM

Working on my submission, trying to shoehorn it in by the deadline.

BinaryMage

2011-08-15, 11:39 AM

I'm still judging this, after an inability to think up a build that wouldn't be better off taking some other prestige class.

So, is judging still open? Closed? Is it ever closed? :smallconfused:

OMG PONIES

2011-08-15, 12:08 PM

:smalleek: Oh my. In putting together the skeleton of my build, I have found something most excellent. Most excellent indeed :smallamused:. Now let's hope I have time to stitch everything together by the Wednesday night deadline.

dextercorvia

2011-08-15, 03:28 PM

So, is judging still open? Closed? Is it ever closed? :smallconfused:

I believe the current system allows anyone to judge up until the deadline.

Piggy Knowles

2011-08-15, 03:46 PM

Submitted! Spent a lot longer on the fluff than I expected, so I probably won't get the chance to put together a second entry. Still, pretty happy with my entry!

Private-Prinny

2011-08-15, 06:37 PM

I believe the current system allows anyone to judge up until the deadline.

This would be correct. The only people who are barred from judging are the contestants.

BinaryMage

2011-08-15, 06:50 PM

I believe the current system allows anyone to judge up until the deadline.

Ah, okay. Thanks for the info!

BobVosh

2011-08-16, 01:19 AM

This would be correct. The only people who are barred from judging are the contestants.

And you PP :P

DeAnno

2011-08-16, 05:27 PM

Submitted. With all these double entries there might be a lot of contestants.

Private-Prinny

2011-08-16, 09:42 PM

Interestingly, all 6 builds that I've received have used different domains. I thought a few choices would be more popular, but instead some of the less obvious domains are getting a chance to shine. And every domain takes the build in a completely different direction.

BinaryMage

2011-08-16, 10:25 PM

Tam_OConnor

2011-08-16, 10:53 PM

I wait with baited breath.

Groverfield

2011-08-16, 11:07 PM

DeAnno

2011-08-17, 01:07 AM

When I was starting my entry I was really surprised at how useless most of the domains looked from the perspective of having only 9 spells total. I had a few other ideas I decided not to pursue, it'll be interesting to see if anyone did.

Amphetryon

2011-08-17, 06:51 AM

In other words: Originality is going to be on the high end this round

That depends on whether "unusual Domain choice" is the metric the judges choose for Originality.

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-17, 07:17 AM

That depends on whether "unusual Domain choice" is the metric the judges choose for Originality.

If it is one I would have never thought of, it would likely give at least a small boost to Originality.

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 11:13 AM

I have a wake to attend, so I'm pushing the reveal back by 2 hours. The submission deadline still stands, though.

Zaq

2011-08-17, 11:16 AM

Blast. Probably not going to get it in on time, then. Last night did not go quite as I expected.

Oh well. Depending on how many entries there are, I might end up judging.

kestrel404

2011-08-17, 11:30 AM

Submitted. After 4 complete, from-scratch rebuilds (because deciding on a different domain does that to this PrC), I've finally got a build that makes good use of the spells and has a reason to take this PrC instead of something more versatile.

I look forward to seeing what everyone else has made.

Cieyrin

2011-08-17, 01:07 PM

I wonder if anyone will have thought of the build idea I had thought of but didn't have time to put together as I forgot that it would have fit with the contest. :smallsigh: Ah well, it focused too heavily on a different PrC for its power and would have suffered immensely in UoSI.

gbprime

2011-08-17, 04:14 PM

Build Submitted. Pity I only had time to finish formatting on the one. (Killer week at work.) We'll see if my other idea would have gotten used.

OMG PONIES

2011-08-17, 05:00 PM

I really hope I did my basic math right...the deadline is 7 PM on the east coast of the US, right?

DeAnno

2011-08-17, 05:17 PM

I think the Deadline is actually 8 PM EST due to Daylight Savings shiftings. (Google seems to believe right now = 10:16 PM GMT)

term1nally s1ck

2011-08-17, 05:31 PM

It's half an hour til deadline right now.

OMG PONIES

2011-08-17, 06:15 PM

Either way, my build has been submitted. I'm pretty sure I'm still before the deadline...:smalleek:

RL craziness prevented me from submitting two builds, though. I had to go with the better of the two. :smallcool:

term1nally s1ck

2011-08-17, 06:19 PM

SUbmitted with 2 mins to spare. Yikes.

Amphetryon

2011-08-17, 06:21 PM

SUbmitted with 2 mins to spare. Yikes.
That's so much better than 30 seconds late. :smallsmile:

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:12 PM

And now it's time for the reveal! Eleven builds, eleven domains, but only one can come out on top.

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:17 PM

Winter is coming.
VALD LOKKUR, The Wolf of Winter
http://digital-art-gallery.com/oid/0/640x828_364_Chilly_2d_fantasy_archer_hunter_monste r_snow_winter_picture_image_digital_art.jpg

Much have I fared, / Much have I found,
Much have I got of the gods;
What shall life of mankind / when at last there comes
The mighty winter to men?

-Othin, The Ballad of Vafthruthnir

“Move it along,” growled the chieftain. “We should break camp ‘ere dawn. It gets hot quick in these parts!”

The workers grumbled, but increased their pace. They were war-slaves, accustomed to heavy work. By the time the first lights of dawn began piercing the sky, the mess of tents and fires had disappeared, and Orlag’s berserkers were dressed and ready to ride.

Orlag gave the order to form, and called for his scouts. “Are we clear?”

“Chief, the path to the east is clear as day,” said the head scout. “One of our number reported seeing an elfin figure just west of the camp. Accompanied by a white wolf, just as the stories foretold.”

“Oh, come now,” Orlag scoffed. “Those villagers were a superstitious lot. There are still two moons until harvest. What winter spirits would be caught wandering the countryside now – in the midst of summer?” He laughed. “I would welcome such a visit. Perhaps a taste of winter is just what we need. Our horses and our slaves wilt in this heat.”

The chieftain stopped. Above the sounds of a busy camp, he could hear the unmistakeable whistling of an arrow cutting through the air. Years of instinct cut in, and without thinking, Orlag deftly stepped aside and avoided the shot. The arrow, a rough-hewn shaft of ash and fletched with blue and white feathers, lay a few feet from him. The wind began to howl.

“That shot came from the west,” cried Orlag. “Find the one who shot it! Bring him to me!”

His voice was drowned out by the terrible winds. Suddenly the area was filled with a biting cold and – snow? Yes, snow! Snow was falling throughout the camp, so thick that Orlag could not see his hand in front of his face. He stumbled forward. Already, the snow was past his ankles.

“What in the name of Llerg is going on? Men, together!” Orlag’s fury was rising, but how could he be expected to fight in this storm? And how could he be expected to hold his camp together against a witch-spirit?

Somewhere in the distance, he could hear a wolf howl…

The Icy Fingers of Telchur: The Build

"What call do you have to say I must live under your laws, or the laws of man? Your society is but a hiccup, a brief and frantic struggle against the inevitability of winter. But though you are now living high in your false summer, it is but a matter of patience. The whispers you hear on the northern winds are the mutterings of Telchur, and when he passes through, he will leave naught but infinite white silence."

-Vald Lokkur, Divine Crusader of Telchur

Arctic Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#arcticElves), CN, Hexblade 5/Abjurant Champion 3/Arcane Archer 2/Divine Disciple 10

Dedicated to Telchur, God of Winter (Complete Divine & Frostburn)

STARTING STATS (post racial adjustments): Str 12/Dex 16/Con 14/Int 10/Wis 10/Cha 16

Level by level breakdown
Vald Lokkur
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Hexblade 1|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+2|Knowledge Religion 2 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks|Point Blank Shot|Hexblade's Curse 1/day

2nd|Hexblade 2|
+2|
+0|
+0|
+3|Intimidate 5 ranks, Ride 1 rank||Arcane resistance

3rd|Hexblade 3|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+3|Intimidate 6 ranks, Ride 2 ranks|Precise Shot|Mettle

4th|Hexblade 4|
+4|
+1|
+1|
+4|Intimidate 7 ranks, Ride 3 ranks||Summon Familiar (Owl)

5th|Hexblade 5|
+5|
+1|
+1|
+4|Intimidate 8 ranks, Ride 4 ranks|Combat Casting|Hexblade's Curse 2/day

6th|Abjurant Champion 1|
+6/+1|
+1|
+1|
+6|Intimidate 9 ranks, Concentration 1 rank|Weapon Focus (Shortbow)|Abjurant armor, extended abjuration

7th|Abjurant Champion 2|
+7/+2|
+1|
+1|
+7|Intimidate 10 ranks, Concentration 2 ranks||Swift abjuration

8th|Divine Crusader 1|
+7/+2|
+3|
+1|
+9|Intimidate 11 ranks, Ride 5 ranks||Aura

9th|Divine Crusader 2|
+8/+3|
+4|
+1|
+10|Intimidate 12 ranks, Concentration 3 ranks|Improved Familiar (Winter Wolf)|

10th|Divine Crusader 3|
+9/+4|
+4|
+2|
+11|Intimidate 13 ranks, Concentration 4 ranks||Resistance to electricity 5

11th|Arcane Archer 1|
+10/+5|
+6|
+4|
+11|Intimidate 14 ranks, Ride 6 ranks, Concentration 4.5 ranks||Enhance arrow +1

12th|Arcane Archer 2|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+5|
+11|Intimidate 15 ranks, Ride 7 ranks, Concentration 5 ranks|Far Shot|Imbue Arrow

13th|Divine Crusader 4|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+5|
+12|Intimidate 16 ranks, Ride 8 ranks||

14th|Divine Crusader 5|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+5|
+12|Intimidate 17 ranks, Ride 9 ranks|Weapon Specialization (Shortbow)|

15th|Divine Crusader 6|
+13/+8/+3|
+9|
+6|
+13|Intimidate 18 ranks, Ride 10 ranks|Ranged Weapon Mastery (Piercing)|Resistance to acid 5

16th|Divine Crusader 7|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+6|
+13|Intimidate 19 ranks, Ride 11 ranks||Darkvision

17th|Divine Crusader 8|
+15/+10/+5|
+10|
+6|
+14|Intimidate 20 ranks, Ride 12 ranks||

18th|Divine Crusader 9|
+15/+10/+5|
+10|
+7|
+14|Intimidate 21 ranks, Ride 13 ranks|Practiced Spellcaster (Divine Crusader)|Resistance to acid and electricity 10

19th|Divine Crusader 10|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+11|
+8|
+15|Intimidate 22 ranks, Ride 14 ranks||Perfect self

20th|Abjurant Champion 3|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+12|
+9|
+15|Intimidate 23 ranks, Concentration 6 ranks||[/table]

Hexblade Spells

Hexblade Spells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]Level|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

1st|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|-|-|-

4th|0/2|-|-|-

5th|0/2|-|-|-

6th|1/3|-|-|-

7th|1/3|-|-|-

8th|1/3|-|-|-

9th|1/3|-|-|-

10th|1/3|-|-|-

11th|1/3|-|-|-

12th|1/3|-|-|-

13th|1/3|-|-|-

14th|1/3|-|-|-

15th|1/3|-|-|-

16th|1/3|-|-|-

17th|1/3|-|-|-

18th|1/3|-|-|-

19th|1/3|-|-|-

20th|1/4|0/2|-|-[/table]

Spells Known:
1- Protection from Law, Augment Familiar, Charm Person
2- Alter Self, Invisibility

Divine Crusader Spells
Divine Crusader Spells per day
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|-|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|-|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|-|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|-|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|-|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|-|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-

14th|-|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-

15th|-|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-

16th|-|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-

17th|-|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-

18th|-|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0

19th|-|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1

20th|-|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1[/table]

WINTER DOMAIN SPELL LIST:
1- Snowsight
2- Snow Walk
3- Winter's Embrace
4- Ice Storm
5- Blizzard
6- Death Hail
7- Control Weather
8- Summon Giants
9- Fimbulwinter

The Harsh Winter Winds: The Wily Machinations of Vald Lokkur

"The hope of spring and summer is but a fragile thing. Telchur once kept the world in his icy grip for a thousand years; he may rule the weather once again. You think this frost will pass? You are naive. You must learn to live through the winter, or you must die. There is no other choice."

-Vald Lokkur, the Winter-Witch

The build itself is fairly straightforward. Vald Lokkur uses Imbue Arrow to fire off devastating area lockdown spells like Blizzard, while he and his wolf avoid many of the nastier effects thanks to Snowsight and Snow Walk. That being said, there are a couple of things to bring up.

Arcane Archer’s “Imbue Arrow” ability is obviously a large part of this build. Although you must be an arcane caster to take levels in the class, the Arcane Archer actually can imbue any spell, arcane or divine, as long as it is an area spell.

Now, one important note is with the casting time:

It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted.

This is actually the real secret to the build. While it is nice being able to cast spells like Blizzard and Sleet Storm from a ridiculous distance (between Far Shot, Ranged Weapon Mastery, the distance enhancement, etc., Vard Lokkur can easily hit 2,100 feet if he fires at something ten range increments away), the real advantage is being able to cast all of his spells with longer casting times in a single action. This means that he can move and cast spells like Blizzard and Death Hail, and not worry about the casting being interrupted. It even means that spells like Control Weather and Fimbulwinter, with a casting time of as much as ten minutes, can also be done in a single round.

Also, oddly enough, the spell Winter’s Embrace is listed as an area spell, meaning it is also a suitable choice for Imbue Arrow.

Winter Always Lies at the End: On the Use of the Secret Ingredient

"The Fimbulvetr is coming. It has been foretold. It will be the end to this life, and the start of the next. For three successive years, summer will not come. The world will remain shrouded in snow. Do not despair! The final winter of this world presages the first blossoms of the next. It is not armageddon - it is Ragnarok!"

-Vald Lokkur, the Wolf of Winter

Divine Crusader is a perfect fit flavor-wise for Vald Lokkur. Vard Lokkur is nothing if not a crusader of Telchur, a witch-prince solely dedicated to bringing about the Fimbulwinter that precedes Ragnarok.

The signature feature of the Divine Crusader is of course its accelerated casting, which aids the build enormously. It would be difficult to fit the many disparate elements of this build and still retain ninth level spells otherwise.

While the Divine Crusader is otherwise sparse in its remaining class features, they do manage to mesh well with the build. The bonus feat of Weapon Specialization is great, allowing the build to take Ranged Weapon Mastery. This further extends the range of the shortbow, Telchur’s favored weapon. A cold and storm-focused build is also certainly not going to turn its nose up at a built-in resistance to electricity. And the capstone, where Vald Lokkur becomes an outsider, is always useful here, with Alter Self as a Spell Known, and wands of Polymorph so cheap and available.

The Hard, Frozen Soil: Level-by-level analysis
"You believe that winter lies at the end of autumn. I believe it lies at the end of my arrow."

-Vald Lokkur, Divine Crusader of Telchur

Levels 1-5
Vald Lokkur begins his career as a standard hexblade. He opens with his curse and ranged attacks, and functions as a decent debuffer and ranged attacker. When his familiar comes on board, it is mostly used as a scout, an extra set of eyes to help keep Vald Lokkur apprised of his surroundings.

Levels 6-10
These levels, Vald Lokkur begins focusing far more heavily on defensive maneuvers. He still uses his curse as a reasonable debuff, and fights at range, but here his resistance to spells via Arcane Resistance and Mettle pay off much more, and his Abjurant Champion levels make Protection from Law a surprisingly powerful buff. To expand his limited spells per day, Vald Lokkur could always look into wands of spells such as Alter Self, which add a great bit of versatility to him.

However, he really starts coming into his own at level 9, when he trades in his familiar for a winter wolf. This winter wolf will stay with him for the rest of his career, and when he cannot fight at range, will be his primary form of offense.

Levels 11-15
In the mid to high levels, Vald Lokkur truly comes into his own. In addition to his combat abilities advancing, his Divine Crusader accelerated casting also begins to catch up with other characters. This is also where his Imbue Arrow tricks come into play, and once he picks up Weapon Specialization, he can use Ranged Weapon Mastery to give him outstanding range on his area attacks.

His basic modus operandi is to sneak up on a group, buff himself and his wolf with Snowsight and Snow Walk, and fire an Ice Storm, Death Hail or Blizzard spell into their midst. Blizzard is especially potent, completely cutting off all visibility and applying a ridiculous amount of snowfall each round. While his enemies struggle with this, he approaches, immune to many of the effects, and uses his curses to further debuff while his winter wolf engages in melee.

Levels 16-20
In these levels, it is all about planning. Spells like Control Weather and Fimbulwinter can decimate armies if used appropriately, and no one is more adept at using them than Vald Lokkur. He also gets another melee combat option with access to the Summon Giants spell. A favorite tactic is to fire off a Control Weather, and then use lockdown spells like Blizzard and Ice Storm while he and his giants engage in hit and run tactics, firing arrows and throwing boulders at range, until the nastiest of Control Weather’s effects come into play.

Fimbulwinter has a minor XP cost, but its gigantic area and impact on an environment cannot be underestimated. The fact that it takes only a standard action for Vald Lokkur to cast makes it even more important. It also works well hand-in-hand with Control Weather.

Also, though at this point it is a minor trick, by 20th level Vald Lokkur has become an outsider, making Alter Self and Polymorph tactics provide even more versatility. Vald Lokkur primarily uses these to buff his defenses and/or his stealth, rather than using them offensively.

The Sweet Spot
Level 15, Hexblade 5/Abjurant Champion 2/Divine Crusader 6/Arcane Archer 2

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Combat Casting, WF (Shortbow), Improved Familiar, Far Shot, Weapon Specialization (Shortbow), Ranged Weapon Mastery (Shortbow)

Casts 6th level spells from the Winter Domain and 1st level Hexblade spells (including Protection From Law, cast as a swift action with an additional +2 bonus to AC, and Augment Familiar).

BAB +13/+8/+3 (same for Winter Wolf)

Able to cast Winter’s Embrace, Ice Storm, Blizzard, and Death Hail through his bow, all as standard actions. Can share Snowsight and Snow Walk with his familiar.

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:18 PM

I don't know what's worse, fighting him or playing as him. (http://www.nesfun.com/play/SilverSurfer.htm)
"Please-- I don't want to die."

"No one wants to die. That is why I have come to warn you. Take your loved ones and leave this place.

Galactus is coming."

Norrin Radd of Zenn-La, Herald of Galactus
Necropolitan Human Paladin 4/Bone Knight 5/Divine Crusader 1/Mystic Wanderer 9/Hierophant 1,
Begins LG, ends TN

Build Presentation

{table=head]Level|Class|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Paladin 1|
1|
2|
0|
0|Craft (Armorsmithing) 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Ride 4|Spellcasting Prodigy, Able Learner, Trait: Spellgifted|Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day

2nd|Paladin 1|
2|
3|
0|
0|Craft (Armorsmithing) 1, Ride 1, Diplomacy 1|-|Divine Grace, Lay on Hands

3rd|Paladin 3|
3|
3|
1|
1|Craft (Armorsmithing) 1, Ride 1, Diplomacy 1|Iron Will|Aura of Courage, Divine Health

4th|Paladin 4|
4|
4|
1|
1|Diplomacy 3|-|Turn Undead

5th|Bone Knight 1|
4|
6|
1|
1|Craft (Alchemy) 2, Knowledge (Nature) 1|-|Bonecraft Armor, Paladin Conversion, Rebuke Undead

6th|Bone Knight 2|
5|
7|
1|
1|Craft (Alchemy) 1, Knowledge (Nature) 2|Weapon Focus (Surfboard)|Bone March, Summon Skeletal Steed

7th|Bone Knight 3|
6|
7|
2|
2|Perform (Surfboard) 2, Knowledge (Nature) 1|-|Master of the White Banner

8th-N|Template: Necropolitan|
-|
-|
-|
-|-|-|Undead Qualities, d12 hit dice, Resist Control, Turn Resistance, Unnatural Resilience

8th|Bone Knight 4|
7|
8|
2|
2|Perform (Surfboard) 1, Profession (Herbalist) 2|-|Improved Bonecraft Armor

9th|Divine Crusader 1|
7|
10|
2|
4|Diplomacy 3|Split Ray|Aura, Hunger Domain, Patron: Galactus

10th|Bone Knight 5|
7|
10|
2|
4|Profession (Herbalist) 1, Knowledge (Religion) 2|-|Fill the Ranks

11th|Mystic Wanderer 1|
7|
10|
4|
6|Knowledge (Religion) 3|-|Glory of the Divine, Sleep

12th|Mystic Wanderer 2|
8|
10|
5|
7|Knowledge (Religion) 3|Divine Metamagic (Split Ray)|Familiar, Lore of Nature

13th|Mystic Wanderer 3|
8|
11|
5|
7|Knowledge (Religion) 3|-|Gem Magic, Resist Charm

14th|Mystic Wanderer 4|
9|
11|
6|
8|{3 unassigned}|-|Brew Potion

15th|Mystic Wanderer 5|
9|
11|
6|
8|{3 unassigned}|Quicken Spell|Suggestion

16th|Mystic Wanderer 6|
10|
12|
7|
9|{3 unassigned}|-|Greater Potion I

17th|Mystic Wanderer 7|
10|
12|
7|
9|{3 unassigned}|-|Charm Monster

18th|Hierophant 1|
10|
14|
7|
11|{3 unassigned}|Divine Metamagic (Quicken Spell)|Reach Spell

19th|Mystic Wanderer 8|
11|
14|
8|
12|{3 unassigned}|-|Greater Potion II

20th|Mystic Wanderer 9|
11|
15|
8|
12|{3 unassigned}|-|Mass Charm Monster[/table]

Important Build Notes:

Elements in Strike-through are lost either at the level 5 alignment shift or when the character becomes an Necropolitan the first time he hits level 8.
References to surfboards are placeholders (cool :smallcool: placeholders) because 1) Galactus does not have a canonical favored weapon (and I thought presuming ray would be pushing it) and 2) Because it doesn't honestly matter what his perform is in.
At level 5, Norrin's alignment shifts to match that of Galactus, which is presumed in the character presentation to be true Neutral. See the "Chef's Notes" section for more on alignment.
For brevity, the table merely notes Necropolitan as a lost level level. Other things being equal, please presume that the character gained and lost a level in Bone Knight. For details on the Necropolatin Process, see Libris Mortis.
Mystic Wanderer's Mass Charm SLA is updated to Mass Charm Monster per the 3.5 update rules regarding the base spell.

Spellcasting Tables
Divine Crusader Spells Per Day (before bonus spells from high ability scores)
{table=head]Level|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

9th|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-

13th|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-

14th|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-

15th|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-

16th|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-

17th|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0

18th|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0

19th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1

20th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1[/table]

Paladin Spells per Day (before bonus spells from high ability scores)
{table=head]Level|1st|2nd

4th-6th|0|-

7th-19th|1|-

20th|1|0[/table]

32 PB starting Ability Scores
{table=head]Ability|Score

Str| 10
Dex| 14
Con| 10
Int| 10
Wis| 12
Cha| 18[/table]

All bonuses from leveling go to Charisma. With +5 inherent, +6 enhancement, +5 from level, you'll be hitting 34 Charisma late game. With Spellcasting Prodigy's virtual +2, you can expect to net 2 bonus level 9 spells per day at level 20.

Con score is lost after becoming a Necropolitan

Class Features, Template, and Feats
Spellcasting Prodigy (charisma): Treat Charisma as 2 points higher for the purposes of determining spell DC and bonus spells (PGtF, pg 44).
Able Learner: Cross class skills bought at class skill rate (Races of Destiny, pg 150). Without this feat, higher int would be required to enter the PRCs on time.
Spellgifted (trait) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#specialized) Not actually necessary, but since almost all spells come from the Necromancy School it's an easy choice if traits are available.
Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm): Divine Grace, since, you know, you're pumping Charisma. This means you should make most saves I forsee that this will be a common theme this competition.
Bone Knight class Eberron, Five Nations, page 118. Lots of useful features-elements central to this build:
Paladin Conversion: Ex-Paladin Bone Knights retain certain class features and Bone Knight levels and Paladin levels stack for some of them. Lay on hands heals living or undead.
Master of the White Banner: Charisma bonus as turn resistance for all undead under your control within 60 feet
Fill the Ranks: Animate Dead for specific kinds of undead
Necropolitan template: Acquired template makes character undead. (LM pg. 114) Elements important to this build:
Hit Die increased to d12
Undead Type moves Concentration to Charisma
Energy Drain and Enervate can be used to grant Bonus Hit points
Hunger Domain (SC 275, canonically available to Doresian, The Keeper, Incabulos, & Laogzed) See tactics section for a discussion of spells.
Mystic Wanderer class Magic of Faerun, page 35. Elements important to this build:
Glory of the Divine-- Charisma bonus to AC (sacred/profane)
SLAs (shown in Italics in Class features columns): 1/day with saves keyed to Charisma modifier
Gem Magic: Attune Gem as a bonus feat, see MoF pg 13. More in the tactics section.
Brew Potion & Greater Potion: Can brew potions from the 1st and 2nd level Wiz/Sorc list
Hierophant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/hierophant.htm): For Divine Reach
DMM and Split Ray: Duplicate a Ray spell for a 2 Level metamatic adjustment. (CArc pg 83) Wonderful, since the bread and butter spells are rays.
DMM and Quicken shenanigans: We all know the drill

Useful Items
Ring of Evasion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#energyResistance): Works well with Divine Grace and high Cha.
Tabard of Valor: Mettle when below 50% HP (CC pg 142). Not quite as nice as the Ring of Evasion, but the same principle.
Reliquary Holy Symbol: Variable extra turn/rebuke attempts (MIC pg 120). For this build, it will grant 1 extra rebuke attempt after level 10 and 2 after level 12.
Nightstick: Useful for extra attempts, but not necessary (LM pg 78). Charisma is the primary stat, so rebuke attempts remain respectable even if they are banned or non-stacking.
Holy Surge and/or Unholy Suge weapon: Extra damage against Evil/Good targets (respectively) 1+ChaMod times per day. (MIC pg 36/45) Helpful boost until Divine Crusader casting kicks in.
Profane Weapon: (MIC pg 40) Holy or Unholy Surge will be better if it can be applied predictably, but there's nothing to say you can't have both (though Profane Holy Surge might raise some eyebrows). Crit is not emphasized enough to warrant the Profane Burst upgrade.

In addition to boosting charisma as much as possible with inherent and enhancement bonuses, moderate investment should be made in Dex-- the bread and butter spells are rays, and other important spells will have Divine Reach applied later on, making them ranged touch attacks as well. If there is significant money left, wisdom grants some minor utility through extra paladin spells.

Chef's Notes
There are a couple of unusual elements in this build that I should probably explain:

Special Ingredient Usage:
Divine Crusader is like Basil: too much is easy, too little is hard. I've used only one level in this build, and while I understand that that may not meet with some judges' criteria for Use of Special Ingredient, I wanted to make it clear that this was a conscious optimization choice.

The only class feature worth noting (Perfect Self) would lean heavily on spells like Alter Self, which would require either a 3rd party domain (from BoEF) or a domain not available for Divine Crusader (i.e. Transformation domain, which has no deity). Even then, with the relevant spells presumed available, the feature in question would come into force a whole 8 levels after Alter Self became available (and, notably, one level after Shapechange). And all this for a type that is available for LA 1 (or LA 0 and a feat).

In short, unless you're having fairly significant issues with electricity and acid (electric heartburn?), the optimal point to leave Divine Crusader is before the second level.

Necromancy and Alignment:
I think the hunger domain is especially suited to Galactus and the Silver Surfer (who should safely be TN). There is a heavy reliance on rays, which fits the Surfer's hand-beam motif in the comics. The fact that Enervation and Energy Drain offer no initial save make them them a good analog for the Power Cosmic, which is effective and powerful even against might foes. Also, Galactus Hungers!
I recognize, however, that there are the build's necromancy dependence and the hunger domain's canonical limitation to evil deities comes with baggage. As such, this build requires either refluffing or an Eberron-like outlook on alignment, undeath, and negative energy. Regarding this, I have some notes:

1) Most in-universe beings would regard Galactus as Evil even if the comic audience is given to understand the necessity of his actions.

2) The build as presented remains legal if migrated to a CE or NE deity who grants the hunger domain.

3) I like to think of any undead created (if you choose to create them-- there is only a range of 5 or so levels where they would be particularly useful to the build) as being like the Silver Men in Ultimate Extinction-- Galactus is coming, and random people are turning into Silver Surfer-like monsters.

4) The Necropolatin transformation is intended to be analogous to Norrin Radd transformation into the Surfer-- a living mortal man is changed into an undying servant of Galactus.

Necropolatin Level Loss, the flexible 20th level, and alternatives
Because Necropolatin only looses 1 level + 1000XP, this build presumes that the gap will be recovered in a party environment over the life of the character. If, however, that is not the case, the 20th level is mostly icing. The Mass Charm Monster SLA is nice, but not central to the build, and Divine Crusader casting progression is already completed (so the last +1 level spellcasting from Mystic Wanderer reverts to Paladin).

Because this level is flexible, a second level of Hierophant would also be an appropriate substitution, particularly if the campaign deals predominantly with one extreme alignment, in which case Blast Infidel would largely represent free maximizes for Enervation and Energy Drain. This choice is not exercised in the build because it would be viable only in setting and campaign specific situations.

Story Presentation
It is hard for me to remember why they fight when I only come to warn them. I fought once, long ago. When I was still human. When I was still Norrin Radd, defender of Zenn-La.

Then I saw him, Galactus: the hungering god who walked the earth, devouring whole lands since the destruction of his plane of Taa.

And in seeing him, in feeling the presence and power of a god, I knew the fight was without hope. So I begged. I begged that Zenn-La might be spared.

And for reasons I have never understood, Galactus graced me with an answer.
"Such things are beneath the concerns of Galactus. Galactus must feed."
So I begged that he might feed on empty lands, where few people live. With his great power, doing so would cost him little.
"The greatness of my power does not make it without toil. Seeking out such lands would take time and energy. And in these toils, my hunger grows greater not less. And it would not change the truth that is necessity: Galactus must feed." And for all I wished, for all I hoped, my conscience would not let me say yes.

But in my despair, I came to a different and horrible hope. I could not beg. But I could bargain. I offered to seek out lands for him where he might feed without destroying great civilizations, where what few people lived there might be driven away rather than die fighting him.
"You know not what baragin you seek to make, Norrin Radd."
I knew even then that his words were true.
"Arise then, my herald, and seek my next meal. Galactus Hungers."

And so I turned away from Zenn-La never to return.
In this service, I was transformed. I am no longer human: I am his herald. The weaknesses and joys or mortality have been shrived away by the power cosmic.

And so I wander without home or nation across the lands of the world, without weariness or rest. I no longer dream of Zenn-La, for I no longer dream.

I have come to understand the truth that is necessity: Galactus must feed. Sometimes I can find lands without people. As time passes, those seem rarer. Some peoples I can convince to leave with words alone: they have heard of the Hungering God, they can feel the truth in my words. They understand the peril of my warning:

Galactus is Coming!

Others resort to force. Even the mightiest of these fall before the power cosmic. But when they fight, I remember Zenn-La. As I strike down the champions that are, I remember the champion that I once was.

And then I wait, for the command that always comes. For the command that must come. For the truth that is necessity.

"Herald! I hunger!"

Tactics, Tools and, Tricks

Hunger Domain Spell Notes

Ghoul Light: Not amazing, but some utility in raising Turn Resistance for both you and any undead minions you might have. You can't prepare anything else in these slots anyways, and it might be useful.
Ghoul Glyph: No-save, just suck paralysis (fort save applies only to the secondary effect).
The cast time is prohibitive, but using this via a Gem Ward can bypass that problem. This presents a valuable defensive option: if you activate the gem, any melee attacking you without reach will be paralyzed. Moreover, with sufficient preparation for specific opponents, the triggered activation options for gem magic might allow you to accomplish this without using an action.
Caster level doesn't matter, so you can make the gem wards at CL2. That means they cost 200g and 8 XP. You'll want some.
Ghoul Gesture: Ray, Fort vs paralysis. In conjunction with Split ray, this is a good opener against multiple targets, as it can effectively remove enemies from the fight for several rounds. Targeting should prefer enemies expected to have low fort saves.
Enervation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enervation.htm): The build's bread and butter. Because it is a ray, it can be split. And thankfully, DMM (Split ray) comes on line the same level as this spell. The average output of a Split Ray Enervation where both rays hit on the same target will be five negative levels: not enough to outright kill a character from drain, but enough to severely hobble most equal level opponents.
In addition, because Norrin is undead, this can be used as a source of temporary hit points. In non-emergencies, this should be achieved through Gem Wards, to conserve limited spells per day.
Ghoul Gauntlet: A steady source of damage, but not an incredible one. Generally, however, using the slots for Enervation or Split Ray Ghoul Gestures is preferable.
Eyes of the King: Utility AND minions, what's not to love. Actually, because it requires concentration, it's mostly utility. When used, this should be executed through a gem ward. Most of these slots should instead be spent on split ray Enervation.
Field of Ghouls: Because of the level this comes online, the 2hd Ghouls are unlikely to be particularly useful. They might make good cannon fodder though. If used, this should be used thru gem wards and the slots conserved for more directly applicable spells.
Bite of the King: Swallow Hole, only better. Once Divine Reach becomes available the level after you gain this spell, it becomes a nice way to deal with less than Batman-esque Arcane Casters. It follows the basic rules of Swallow Hole, but the "stomach" is an pocket stomach dimension, which puts sharp restrictions many teleportation-based contingencies. The concentration to actually cast within the stomach will be in 40s before the spell level modification-- achievable, but difficult.
Energy Drain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/energyDrain.htm): As Enervation in all aspects, only better. A quickened, split ray Energy Drain flowed by a second Split Energy Drain will take care of most enemies in a turn. Go go DMM. Saddly, this option will be a once per day option. Against most opponents, a split Ennervation instead of a second Energy Drain will be a better use of slots (and still average out to 15 negative levels in one turn).

Additional tools

Mystic Wanderer SLAs:The domain spells provide your basic ammunition and good tools to target fort saves. To instead target will saves, you can make use of your Charm Monster and Mass Charm Monster SLAs. Sleep is largely useless by the time it becomes available, but suggestion remains a significant non-combat tool.
Greater Potions: also come online late for direct combat applicability, but the sheer number of qualifying spells on the Wiz/Sorc list means that it will be a significant boon for out of combat purposes.
Blessed Aim: You won't get much from your paladin spells, but this one is worth note. +2 to your ranged attacks with a duration measured in minutes per level. This will be nice and cheap to put in gem wards, and it will help make sure your rays hit.

Levels 1-5
At these levels, you're essentially a paladin. It's depressing but true. You have low strength and moderate dex: your best option is to aim for a ranged weapon with the Profane, Holy, or Unholy weapon enhancement to get you through till your spellcasting comes online.

Luckily you have divine grace and good Armor Proficiencies. It won't be spectacular, but you should be able to make it through while contributing some damage.

Levels 6-10
For these levels, your best option will be to fill the necromancer role. You have a skeletal warhorse for a base, and you can also control 8-16 HD more of undead, (depending on Bone Knight level) presuming you can find/hire an appropriate divine caster to create them for you and cede control via Bone March. Starting at level 10, you can instead make your own with Fill the Ranks.

Levels 11+
At level 11, you gain access to your first directly offensive Divine Crusader spell. From this point forward, your spells begin to define your tactics. Your first spell priority should always be to remove or paralyze one or more enemy arcane casters (specifically arcane casters because they are generally expected to have weak fort saves, and the relevant effects target fort).

Once you can produce gem wards to ghoul glyphs, you should use them to disable enemy melee attempting to get close enough to attack you.

With those enemies disabled, you should use Enervate or Energy Drain to deal with any one else-- that is, those staying at range who are not expected to readily fail fort saved. Alternately, you can attempt to close range and use gem wards of Ghoul Glyph for no-save paralysis.

The Really Fun Spell Combination
The basic tools of the class are simple: you cast a quickened split ray then another split ray. You brag about the power cosmic and how small the concerns of your enemies are.

And someone pulls out the big guns. Well you have big guns too.

Against a target with low fort saves, you can use the following combination.

Start with a quickened ghoul gesture, followed by a Divine Reach Bite of the King. This puts them paralyzed for 1/round per caster level (between 8 and 11 rounds) in a stomach, taking an average of 33 damage a turn.
While they are in the stomach, activate a gem ward of Ghoul Glyph. As noted above, they cost you 200g and 8XP to make. You should have plenty.
When/if the target escapes the stomach dimension, they appear next to you, which is to say within the 5 foot trigger range for that Ghoul Glyph gem you just activated. You now have 3-8 more rounds of a paralyzed opponent in which to either kill them or deal with someone else. Or just send them back to the stomach.

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:20 PM

With this many True Strikes, he'll never strike out.
Mighty Casey

Chaotic Good Goliath of Labelas Enoreth, a Divine Crusader of the Time Domain

Swordsage 1/Fighter 2/Swordsage +2 (3)/Fighter +2 (4)/Barbarian 1/Divine Crusader 10/Swordsage +1 (4)
(Swordsage 4/Fighter 4/Barbarian 1/Divine Crusader 10, note that Barbarian is a Favored Class)

Ability Scores

[10] STR 20
[04] DEX 10
[02] CON 12
[06] INT 14
[00] WIS 08
[10] CHA 16+4(levels) = 20

Never Again (Fluff)

Mighty Casey remembered the day of his first battle, long ago when he was young. He had been the best of the new warriors in training, easily surpassing his tribal brothers in the training Arena. He was confident and brave, ready to charge any foe with his trusty battle-stick.

But battle was different. Casey was surprised and wounded before the fight began. He got stuck in the mud and tripped. He spent too much time shaking off the grabs of inferior opponents. His wits were robbed by enemy spellcasters. And near the very end, when he finally had the chance to strike, he missed.

Casey survived the battle, but his tribe did not. And that day, Casey swore he would never again be unready, he would never lose concentration when it was needed most, he would never fail in the moment of truth. Eldritch genes long lost in his blood shivered and a God of Knowledge and Time in a place far away took note of the subtle disturbance.

Casey slowly came into his arcane blood, letting him perform feats in battle that seemed almost supernatural. He was not content to rely upon his blood alone however, and trained with other tribes and peoples all around the land. He learned how to batter his foes through the air from the giants, and how to pounce with wild abandon from the savannah savages. He still charged with fury, but now he also struck with skill and and moved with grace.

And that might have been all for Casey, who was well on his way to becoming just another normal ToB fused charger among thousands. But Casey was a new thing among Goliaths: he was touched by the Planes. Long after the lost battle of his youth, Casey fought in another battle, this one far more terrible in scope, against a horde of Outsiders unleashed from the Abyss. He charged his Demonic ancestor that day, and slew him with much prejudice, and in so doing saved a whole load of elves. Labelas Enoreth, God of Generations and Study and Elves, had been distractedly watching the battle and appreciated the irony. Mighty Casey became his Champion, a Divine Crusader who could twist the fabric of Time itself in battle, and went from being a really standard charger to being a really weird charger.

There was another battle about to start now, and his senses brought news of its coming backwards through time to Casey's brain. Quickly he shakes off his memories, waves his hand to Haste himself, and charges into the fight with a smile on his face and a baseball bat in hand.

The Build

{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Goliath LA|
-|
-|
-|
-|-|-|-

2nd|Swordsage 1|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|4 Balance, 4 Concentration, 4 Jump, 2 Knowledge Religion*, 4 Listen, 2 Spellcraft*, 2 Spot*, 4 Tumble|Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff)|Quick to Act +1, Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus: Setting Sun)

3rd|Fighter 1|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+2|1 Jump, 0.5 Spot*, Extreme Leap|Improved Bull Rush|-

4th|Fighter 2 (Dungeon Crasher)|
+2|
+3|
+2|
+2|1 Jump, 1 Spellcraft*, 0.5 Spot*|Knockback|Dungeon Crasher

5th|Swordsage 2|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+3|1 Balance, 2 Concentration, 3 Tumble, Twisted Charge|-|AC Bonus, +1 Charisma

6th|Swordsage 3|
+4|
+4|
+3|
+3|2 Concentration, 2 Jump, 2 Listen, 0.5 Spot*, 1 Tumble|-|-

7th|Fighter 3|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+4|1 Jump, 0.5 Spot*, 1 Tumble*|Leap Attack|-

8th|Fighter 4|
+6/+1|
+5|
+4|
+4|1 Spot*, 1 Tumble*|Shock Trooper|-

9th|Barbarian 1 (Spiritual Lion Totem)|
+7/+2|
+7|
+4|
+4|2 Jump, 2 Listen, 1 Tumble*|-|Pounce, Rage, +1 Charisma

10th|Divine Crusader 1|
+7/+2|
+9|
+4|
+6|2 Concentration, 1 Tumble*|Keeper of Forbidden Lore, Improved Initiative|Aura

11th|Divine Crusader 2|
+8/+3|
+10|
+4|
+7|2 Concentration, 1 Tumble*|-|-

12th|Divine Crusader 3|
+9/+4|
+10|
+5|
+7|2 Concentration, 1 Tumble*|-|Resistance to Electricity 5

13th|Divine Crusader 4|
+10/+5|
+11|
+5|
+8|1 Concentration, 1 Jump, 1 Tumble*|Quicken Spell|+1 Charisma

14th|Divine Crusader 5|
+10/+5|
+11|
+5|
+8|1 Concentration, 3 Spellcraft|-|Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff

15th|Divine Crusader 6|
+11/+6/+1|
+12|
+6|
+9|1 Concentration, 3 Spellcraft|-|Resistance to Acid 5

16th|Divine Crusader 7|
+12/+7/+2|
+12|
+6|
+9|1 Concentration, 3 Spellcraft|Residual Magic|Darkvision

17th|Divine Crusader 8|
+13/+8/+3|
+13|
+6|
+10|1 Concentration, 3 Jump|-|+1 Charisma

18th|Divine Crusader 9|
+13/+8/+3|
+13|
+7|
+10|1 Concentration, 3 Jump|-|Resistance to Acid and Electricity 10

19th|Divine Crusader 10|
+14/+9/+4|
+14|
+7|
+11|1 Concentration, 1 Jump, Nimble Charge|Martial Stance: Hearing the Air|Perfect Self

20th|Swordsage 4|
+15/+10/+5|
+14|
+8|
+12|1 Concentration, 7 Tumble|-|Discipline Focus (Insightful Strikes: Tiger Claw)[/table]

Casey is both a gish and a charger, and the unique nature of Divine Crusader allows him to combine these roles in a way doable by very few other builds. Most gishes must carefully regulate nonspellcasting levels, paying dearly for a Barbarian dip, levels of Fighter, and use of Tome of Battle. Casey on the other hand has free reign to both pick up all his charging essentials with levels in Core melee classes and grab a double handful of blade magic to fill in the holes he can't fill with the Time domain.

On the other hand, chargers are usually finicky beasts, startled easily and apt to break their legs on a tricky rock. Even using Tome of Battle, most chargers still have issues with mobility and accuracy (especially when they can't charge), along with a glaring weakness to many common caster tactics such as miss chance and Solid Fog. The Time Domain contains solutions to all these problems, and even addresses the danger of Save or Dies by letting Casey force his way through one with Moment of Prescience.

With all the damage potential of a charger, all the powerful spells of the Time Domain, and added versatility from the Tome of Battle, Casey is a devastating triple-threat capable of dealing with numerous difficulties that plague high level play. He has multiple answers to outrageous AC, can strike through miss chance, bypasses terrain obstructions, can see and hit invisible creatures, and can even soar up into the air and smash fliers into the ground.

Divine Spells

{table=head]Level|Caster Level|New Spell Known|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

10th|
1st|True Strike|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|
2nd|Gentle Repose|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|
3rd|Haste|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|
4th|Freedom of Movement|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-

14th|
5th|Permanency|4|3|3|2|0|-|-|-|-

15th|
6th|Contingency|4|4|3|3|1|0|-|-|-

16th|
7th|Moment of Prescience|4|4|4|3|2|1|0|-|-

17th|
8th|Foresight|5|4|4|4|3|2|1|0|-

18th|
9th|Time Stop|5|4|4|4|4|2|2|1|0

19th|
10th|-|5|4|4|4|4|3|2|2|1[/table]

The above table includes bonus spells from Charisma in its spells per day.

Our big combo here is using Quickened True Strike + Residual Magic. If we prepare a Quickened True Strike in a level 5 slot and a normal True Strike in a level 1 slot, then on turn 1 we can cast Quickened True Strike, and on turn 2 we can cast the normal True Strike Quickened as well thanks to Residual Magic. This means we effectively have twice as many Quickened True Strikes as we prepare each day, and has the added effect of letting us use up a lot of those low level spell slots which can be difficult to fit into the economy of actions otherwise.

Spell Slot levels:

1st and 2nd level: Since Gentle Repose is pretty much junk, you want to fill these levels up with True Strikes. Before our combo is up and running you might not be able to use them all, but you'll always have them ready to spend on a turn where you want to use a move to position yourself or are getting ready for a fight. True Strike negates miss chances due to concealment in addition to its +20 bonus to attack rolls, so be sure to use it against invisible creatures (more on detecting them later) and similar.

3rd level: Here you probably want to prepare all Haste. If you expect an extremely long day with your Quickened True Strike combo you might have some True Strikes creeping into here but that shouldn't really be necessary. Since Haste has a short duration and requires a Standard Action to cast you want to try to get it off before fights whenever possible. If you don't have magical means of raising your tumble check, Haste will be very neccessary for dealing with reach, giving you a half speed tumble of 30 feet.

4th level: Similarly, this level should probably be full of Freedom of Movement. One cast before walking into the dungeon should last long enough, with maybe one in reserve in case you run out of time. You can buff the rest of the party with Freedom of Movement too and maybe trade it for some buffs from other people. If you expect a lot of battles in a short period you may want to prepare an extra Haste here.

5th level: This level should be completely filled with Quickened True Strike and nothing else. Permanency is completely useless to us, but we don't really care.

6th level: Several useful Contingencies can be set up with your spells, especially to get off timely Haste (sadly only once you're caster level 9) or even to save a swift action by casting True Strike on you under various awkward conditions. However you want more Quickened True Strike so this level will probably be mostly filled with that instead.

7th level: At this point you've probably got 6 or so Quickened True Strikes stored at lower levels, making for a healthy 12/day total. You could choose to prepare some more here, but Moment of Prescience is an awesome spell and you don't want to have to hesitate to discharge it under dangerous conditions.

8th level: Foresight is another long duration spell you want always on if possible, but you don't have to discharge it so you don't need to prepare more than one or two in most cases. If you have spare slots here an extra Moment of Prescience never hurt, nor did an extra Quickened True Strike.

9th level: Time Stop is your best way of getting back the initiative when circumstances have become difficult. You can get off a normal True Strike, Haste yourself, or even refresh your Moment of Prescience or an important maneuver inside Time Stop while you move to a more suitable position on the battlefield. It's usually advisable to come out of Time Stop standing next to an enemy with an action readied to attack.

Casting Routine Rules Quandries

Since some judges have asked us to be very careful about legality, I have researched a pair of difficult areas in the rules and have collected some evidence to support that Casey's casting routines are legal. First, one can cast spells requiring somatic components while holding a two-handed weapon by shifting one hand off and then back onto the weapon as free actions. This is called out specifically in this Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041102a) under "Adjacent Squares and Reach Weapons".

Although the rules don't mention it, letting go of a two-handed weapon with one hand or putting a free hand back on the weapon is a free action for you.

Another rules clarification we should go over is that we can cast a quickened spell in the middle of our full attack. From Complete Arcane, we know casting a quickened spell is a swift action in 3.5. From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#swiftActions):

You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action.

You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.

This means that Casey is justified in casting a Quickened True Strike in between swings of his two-handed weapon.

Swordsage Blade Magic

{table=head]Level|Initiator Level|Maneuvers Readied|Maneuvers Known|Stances Known

2nd|
1st|
4|Moment of Perfect Mind (DM), Mighty Throw (SS), Shadow Blade Technique (SH), Charging Minotaur (SD), Sudden Leap (TC), Wolf Fang Strike (TC)|Step of the Wind (SS)

5th|
3rd|
4|Emerald Razor (DM)|Flame's Blessing (DW)

6th|
4th|
5|Rabid Wolf Strike (TC)|-

19th|
10th|
5|-|Hearing the Air (DM)

20th|
11th|
5|Searing Charge (DW), Bounding Assault (DM) (from Wolf Fang Strike)|-[/table]

Here we fill up some gaps in utility left by our Divine Spells, as well as providing strong options for turns when we cannot manage to charge. Shadow Blade Technique, Emerald Razor, and Rabid Wolf Strike all help us in hitting, which in turn helps us Power Attack. Step of the Wind lets us ignore difficult terrain, and Hearing the Air lets us deal with invisible creatures. Searing Charge and Bounding Assault let us charge more easily. Moment of Perfect Mind gives us a Will Save and Sudden Leap gives mobility.

Tactics, ECL 2-10

Regrettably, we're two levels late getting to Divine Crusader, but the other side of that coin is that this build is more than playable all the way from 2-10; it's actually quite good. We have maneuvers, we have charging, we have Knockback and Dungeon Crasher, and it all comes online with more than reasonable speed. Our AC is probably in the suspect zone even before shock trooper, and we have resoundingly average saves, but we have Moment of Perfect Mind to soak the first will save at least.

Tactics here are fairly simple: If we can Charge with Shock Trooper, we do that so we can Power Attack and Knockback easily, even before Pounce. If we can't, Emerald Razor probably lets us full Power Attack when we use it, and Rabid Wolf Strike and Shadow Blade Technique probably let us Power Attack at least a little bit so we can win our Knockback checks convincingly. Remember when trying to charge we have both Sudden Leap and Twisted Charge to help us actually do it. Also, when trying to Leap Attack, remember Goliaths treat standing Jumps as if they were running, so you only need 10 feet to Leap Attack Charge in. True Strike is pretty useful when we pick it up at level 10 in a certain sort of campaign where you have a round before you kick down the door, and if you're the gambling sort you can even use a round to position and True Strike preparing for a Pounce.

The debate of when to Knockback in a Pounce will often be a sort of troublesome thing to decide, but in general unless you really need the target moved or it has crazy high AC the extra hit at -5 in the charge is worth the chance of missing the knockback-dungeon crash altogether. Some selected combat actions from level 10 (assuming all mundane gear and no buffs):

Pounce: Charge 60 feet (Jump +20, Tumble +16), Ignore Difficult Terrain, DC 10 Jump to Leap Attack
Attacks: +16/+11 (Shock Trooper PA)
Quarterstaff Damage = 1d8 + 7 (strength) + 14 (Power Attack) + 14 (Leap Attack) = 39.5
Knockback = Free Bull Rush on hit +2 (charge) +4 (size) +4 (improved bull rush) +5 (strength) + 14 (Power Attack) = +27
Dungeon Crasher: 4d6 + 10 = 24
Full Average Damage: 39.5*2+24 = 103

Emerald Razor: Quarterstaff +7 vs Touch AC (Full PA)
Quarterstaff Damage 1d8+7+14 = 25.5
Knockback = +25, DC damage = 24
Full Average Damage = 49.5

Saves: +10/+4/+5 (Moment of Perfect Mind +13)

Tactics, ECL 11-16

In these levels we pick up two important buffs, Haste and Freedom of Movement, and start getting a few Quickened True Strikes. While mechanically we're still doing similar things as we were before, we'll now be doing them much more reliably. An important thing to remember is that Freedom of Movement does very specific things: it allows us to ignore magical movement limiting effects, it beats grapples, and it lets us act underwater. A RAW reading of the spell might or might not let you ignore mundane obstacles and difficult terrain, but we have Step of the Wind for that so we don't really care.

At these levels reach is going to start showing up everywhere, and that's one thing we don't have an auto-win for and have to think about. We have a decent bonus against Trip, but many monsters are going to have a better one and we really don't want to get tripped in mid-charge. Our tumble is good enough to definitely half speed tumble and probably full speed at these levels, but double move charges are quite hard to tumble during unless we have some sort of tumble boosting item. For this reason in these sorts of situations we are very greedy to get Haste up to double our natural speed, even to the point that if we see a lot of reach around in a battle and can get some allies in it we really won't even hesitate to do it in mid-combat.

At level 15 you should hoard your one Quickened True Strike for very important situations, and maybe even for when you're facing a miss chance. At level 16 we start having a lot of Quickened True Strikes available and get double use out of them with Residual Magic, so we can use them far more cavalierly to keep things moving along.

From level 16:

We have 3/day Quickened True Strike with no magic Cha, and get a "free" one the turn after we use each

Hasted Pounce, with a Quickened True Strike in mid-full attack: Charge 120 feet (Jump +33, Tumble +19)
Attacks: +22/+22/+17/+32 (Shock Trooper PA, True Strike between 3rd and 4th blow)
Quarterstaff Damage = 1d8+7+2+24+24 = 61.5
Knockback = Free Bull Rush on final hit = 2+4+4+5+24 = +37
Dungeon Crasher: 4d6+10 = 24
Full Average Damage: 61.5*4+24 = 270

Hasted Quickened True Strike Emerald Razor: Quarterstaff +28 vs Touch AC (Full PA)
Quarterstaff Damage 1d8+7+2+24 = 37.5
Knockback = +35, DC damage = 24
Full Average Damage = 61.5

Saves: +13/+7/+8 (MoPM +21)

Tactics, ECL 17-20

In these levels the build picks up Moment of Prescience and Foresight. These are primarily defensive in nature, allowing us to survive long enough to implement our charging. One important use of Moment of Prescience aside from saves is actually to help when things go wrong on a charge and something with Reach is trying to trip us. Obviously if we get tripped that'll ruin the whole turn, so burning Moment of Prescience for +CL on the opposed strength check (in addition to our +9 natural modifier) is usually wise in such situations. Foresight on the other hand is very good in general, and especially might buy us a turn to get Haste off in some sticky situations.

We get lots more Quickened True Strikes as we level, and you'll have to feel out your campaign to decide how many high level slots to dedicate to them. One very important note is if you use a Quickened True Strike, you should almost always cast your "freebie" on the next turn even if you don't want to use it on that specific attack (in that case, cast True Strike after attacking), or you don't attack that turn at all for some reason (like desperately needing to cast Haste). Since True Strike lasts until the end of the next round, you'll be able to save it up for a turn and use it next time, still getting the benefit of a saved standard action in battle.

In our last couple levels we go back and get some more tricks from the Swordsage which will really solidify our high level play. Hearing The Air's Blindsense is synergistic with True Strike, Searing Charge will let us abuse flying foes (but forsake Leap Attack), and Bounding Assault lets us get charges off in otherwise impossible circumstances.

Hasted Pounce, with a Quickened True Strike in mid-full attack: Charge 120 feet (Jump +40, Tumble +26)
Attacks: +25/+25/+20/+35 (Shock Trooper PA, True Strike between 3rd and 4th blow)
Quarterstaff Damage = 1d8+7+2+30+30 = 73.5
Knockback = Free Bull Rush on final hit +2+4+4+5+30 = +43
Dungeon Crasher: 4d6+10 = 24
Full Average Damage: 73.5*4+24 = 318

Hasted Quickened True Strike Emerald Razor: Quarterstaff +28 vs Touch AC (Full PA)
Quarterstaff Damage 1d8+7+2+30 = 43.5
Knockback = +41, DC damage = 24
Full Average Damage = 67.5

Saves: +15/+9/+11 (MoPM +25)

Sources

PHB: Fighter, Barbarian, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Quicken Spell
Complete Divine: Divine Crusader
Complete Warrior: Shock Trooper
Complete Adventurer: Leap Attack
Complete Mage: Residual Magic
Complete Champion: Lion Totem Barbarian
Tome of Battle: Swordsage, Martial Stance feat
Dungeonscape: Dungeoncrasher
Races of Stone: Goliath, Knockback
Fiendish Codex I: Keeper of Forbidden Lore
Player's Guide to Faerun: Time Domain, mention of Labelas Enoreth
Faiths and Pantheons: Labelas Enoreth's full description

Adaption & Gear

There's a lot of room to arrange things differently or dip more if you can ignore multiclass penalties. Soulborn 1 for Spellcraft as a skill, Hexblade 2 (if you can handwave the alignment) for a nice save bonus as well as Spellcraft, and Fighter to 6 for Dungeoncrasher+ are all defensible choices.

For items you badly want +tumble and +concentrate. You like Valorous Weapons, and also Blinding Energy, though the latter requires a backup weapon (a Reach weapon may be a good choice for this).

If we can get us some LA Buyoff, were probably getting a last level of Swordsage for the Stance, or a level of Crusader for the White Raven Powers. In games with extended Dragon Mag content Half Minotaur Human is far superior to Goliath. A liberal DM may let you Dark Chaos Shuffle Keeper of Forbidden Lore, since it IS actually a Dark Chaos feat.

Hearing the Air or Leap Attack might be traded for Adaptive Style, Battle Jump, or a late Martial Study, depending on gear or campaign. If you can get flaws or the shuffle, all the better.

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:23 PM

They're not tricks. They're Illusions.
Glimwyn Mardwicket, The Shadow Gnome
CE Gnome Hexblade 6/Chaotician 1/Divine Crusader of Cyric 10/Shadowcraft Mage 3

Death to all who oppose Cyric. Bow down before his supreme power, and yield to him the blood of those that do not believe in his supremacy. Fear and obey those in authority, but slay those that are weak, of wholesome persuasion, or false prophets. Bring death to those that oppose Cyric's church or make peace, order, and laws, for only Cyric is the true authority. Break not into open rebellion, for marching armies move false deities into action. Fell one foe at a time and keep all folk afraid, uneasy, and in constant strife. An method or means is justified if it brings about the desired end. - Faiths and Pantheons

Attributes
Base (32 Point-Buy): Str: 12, Dex: 10, Con: 11, Int: 10, Wis: 13, Cha: 18.
Modified: Str: 10, Dex: 10, Con: 13, Int: 10, Wis: 13, Cha: 18
At level 20: Str: 10, Dex: 10, Con: 13, Int: 10, Wis: 13, Cha: 23 (All attribute increases)

The Build
The Shadow Gnome
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Hexblade 1|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+2|Bluff: 3(+3), Concentration: 3(+3), Intimidate: 2(+2) |Weapon Focus: Longsword|Hexblade's Curse 1/day

2nd|Hexblade 2|
+2|
+0|
+0|
+3|Hide: 1(+2)|None|Arcane Resistance

3rd|Hexblade 3|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+3|Hide: 2 (+2)|Earth Sense|Mettle

4th|Hexblade 4|
+4|
+1|
+1|
+4|Intimidate: 3(+1), Concentration: 4 (+1)|None|Dark Companion (ACF, PHB 2, Replaces Familair)

5th|Hexblade 5|
+5|
+1|
+1|
+4|Concentration: 5 (+1), Intimidate: 4 (+1)|Combat Casting|Bonus Feat, Curse 2/day

6th|Hexblade 6|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+4|Intimidate 5(+1), Spellcraft: 1 (+1)|Heighten Spell|None

7th|Chaotician 1|
+7/+2|
+2|
+4|
+4|Bluff: 4 (+1), Knowledge (Religion): 2 (+2), Intimidate: 6 (+1)|None|Scofflaw, Chaotic Contagion

8th|Divine Crusader of Cyric 1|
+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+6|Hide: 3 (+2)|None|Aura, Spellcasting (Illusion Domain)

9th|Divine Crusader 2|
+8/+3|
+5|
+4|
+7|Hide: 4 (+2)|Shielded Casting|None

10th|Divine Crusader 3|
+9/+4|
+5|
+5|
+7|Intimidate: 8 (+2)|None|Resistance to Electricity 5

11th|Divine Crusader 4|
+10/+5|
+6|
+5|
+8|Intimidate: 10 (+2)|None|None

12th|Divine Crusader 5|
+10/+5|
+6|
+5|
+8|Intimidate: 12 (+2)|Spell Focus (Illusion)|Weapon Specialization (Longsword)

13th|Divine Crusader 6|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+6|
+9|Intimidate: 14 (+2)|None|Resistance to Acid 5

14th|Divine Crusader 7|
+12/+7/+2|
+7|
+6|
+9|Intimidate: 16 (+2)|None|Darkvision

15th|Divine Crusader 8|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+6|
+10|Intimidate: 18 (+2)|Earth Spell|None

16th|Shadowcraft Mage 1|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+6|
+12|Spellcraft: 5 (+4)|None|Cloak of Shadows

17th|Shadowcraft Mage 2|
+14/+9/+4|
+8|
+6|
+12|Spellcraft: 9 (+4)|None|Silent Illusions

18th|Shadowcraft Mage 3|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+7|
+13|Spellcraft: 13 (+4)|Practiced Spellcaster (Divine Crusader)|Shadow Illusion

19th|Divine Crusader 9|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+8|
+13|Intimidate: 18 (+2)|None|Resistance to Acid 10, Resistance to Electricity 10

20th|Divine Crusader 10|
+15/+10/+5|
+10|
+8|
+14|Intimidate: 20 (+2)|None|Perfect Self[/table]

Hexblade Spells
Spells per day
{table=head]Level|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

1st|-|-|-|-|

2nd|-|-|-|-|

3rd|-|-|-|-|

4th|0|-|-|-|

5th|0|-|-|-|

6th|1|-|-|-|

[/table]
Spells Known
{table=head]Level|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

1st|-|-|-|-|

2nd|-|-|-|-|

3rd|-|-|-|-|

4th|2|-|-|-|

5th|2|-|-|-|

6th|3|-|-|-|

[/table]

Divine Crusader Spells
Spells per day
{table=head]Level|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

8th |0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-

12th|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-

13th|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-

14th|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-

15th|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-

16th|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0

17th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1

18th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1

19th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1

20th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1[/table]

Build Crunch

Level 1
At this level Glim plays like a standard fighter, and she is a moderately effective at it. The weapon focus partially makes up for her low melee stats. She is, for now, extraordinarily capable as a debuffer, courtesy of her high Charisma. The main tricks she has are her curse, which she uses as often as possible, as well as demoralization.

Level 5
Glim has grown into a more effective Hexblade than she was previously. She now has spells to make up for her crippling stats. She also has gained the dark companion class feature, which allows her to further cripple the stats of her enemy. The dark companion will retain it's usefulness as she levels up and gains prestige. Additionally, Mettle and Arcane resistance coupled with her massive charisma have made her a formidable opponent for wizards and casters.

She has gained two feats. Earth Sense works to allow her to sense enemies in dark environments, especially useful given her penchant for trying to deny her enemies stats and sight while still remaining functional herself. She has also gained combat casting, which at this point is practically valueless for her, but will give great results at higher levels by essentially eliminating the need for concentration.

Level 7
Glim has now met the requirements for Divine Crusader. She also has taken her first level of prestige, Chaotician. This class is thematically appropriate for a devotee of chaos and evil. Mechanically, she gets (essentially) an additional use of curse per day; as her Charisma will continue to increase the effectiveness of Chaotic Contagion and her curse will continue to increase. She gains non-detection vs. law (Scofflaw), which isn't terribly useful, but is thematically very appropriate for a servant of Dark Sun. Finally, she gets all armor proficiencies, which will be invaluable as she moves from Arcane to Divine casting. The armor proficiencies will allow her to continue to use melee when necessary and give her the ability to use a shield (which will come in VERY handy later, and the higher AC will certainly be useful in melee now.)

She also has acquired heighten spell, which she can use at mid levels she can use it to fill out bad spells (phantasmal killer), with much better choices from the domain (displacement, etc.)

Level 8
Finally the secret ingredient. Glim chooses the illusion domain, which will eventually be the key to her dark power. She gets her first spell at this level (kinda underwhelming though, it won't be later though, Mwahaha, cough, cough, excuse me, where was I...oh right...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!) She also gains an Aura of Chaotic Evil. Not the best thing to have, but it can't really be helped. Her tactics remain essentially unchanged, though her added armor and shield allow her to mess it up more directly in combat. This is Glim at her most awkward: she has just moved up from being an average melee fighter and will need a few more levels to push herself to ultimate power.

Level 10
Glim has now progressed further in the secret ingredient. She is still mostly a melee fighter, but she is beginning to take advantage of her more formidable tricks. She has gained 3rd level spells thanks to her charisma. She can use shielded casting to cast in melee with impunity, and she can use displacement to make herself harder to hit. The image spells are not terribly useful at this point from a pure optimization standpoint. Despite this, they can still prove useful as distractions. She continues to use her dark companion and curse abilities to mitigate the loss of BAB and strength.

Level 15
At this point Glim is deep into the Divine Crusader. She has obtained 7th level spells. She remains an acceptable melee combatant, although she is no longer as powerful in this area as she once was. Fortunately, her spells are beginning to pick up more of the slack. She can use mislead to escape from situations that are not in her favor. She can use persistent shadow image as a decoy or distraction and frequently uses it as the former after using mislead. She can use project image similarly, and she can also use this ability to deliver her curse attacks to far off opponents. She has also gained phantasmal killer, which at this point is resoundingly valueless and is likely to be replaced by a heightened version of another illusion spell. Her deceptive nature and curses make her a tricky and dangerous opponent, befitting a servant of Cyric. Also, free weapon specialization and darkvision! These two abilties combine to make her a deadly....Well, okay, they're not 7th level spells (I would rate them as mostly harmless), but they are free stuff.

Level 16
First level of Shadowcraft Mage. This one advances Glim's spellcasting further, giving her 8th level spells. At this point her Shadowcraft Mage levels haven't really matured. She gains displacement, which is always good to have. She also gets a hide effect, which is particularly useful in conjunction with her uses of mislead. Screen has its uses, although it's not really that great in terms of combat monkeying. Glim is now beginning the bizarre end-game transition from a mostly melee-focused character to a mostly magic-focused character with some melee ability. At this point she continues her focus as a tricky dicky melee opponent, with the ability to use screen to further conceal herself from scrying (as befits a servant of Cyric.)

Level 18
This is Glim at her sweetest spot. She retains the ability to prepare her previous tricks and is still a formidable opponent in melee, aided by her curses (though the curses are less effective now), her dark companion (still effective), and her improved cloak of shadows. Her shielded casting allows her to wade into melee and do damage if she so desires. This is all good, but now she has her most powerful trick, the one that shatters the ceiling on Divine Crusader power: shadow illusion. She can replicate a wide swath of Wizard spells. If she carries a jar of earth with her (and she does), she can cast up to 9th level Wizard spells with ease, allowing her to adapt to virtually any scenario. Her spell focus, gnome bonus, curses, and dark companion makes saving against her illusions almost impossible. Practiced Spellcaster boosts her caster level to 15 (Illusion domain makes it 16 for all Illusion spells, conveniently her only spells), and Earth spell makes it 18 (Note: See rules discussion for a brief discussion of the caster level).

Essentially, in this one level, she goes from a below-average to average melee fighter with a few nasty surprises to a deadly and effective caster. Though she will never be able to compete with the power of a full caster, she is far far more powerful than her single domain would normally allow. Also, at this level, and this level only, her number of 9th level spells is nearly equal to that of a pure caster.

Level 20
Glim is still pretty sweet. She is slightly weaker compared to other casters in that she has not gained any additional 9th level spells, but her options in combat are still fairly versatile. In most other respects she retains all of her previous abilities.

Basically, the only things of significance she gets are Perfect Body and Resistances, which are kind of underwhelming compared with high-level spells. She is still a hybrid in the truest sense and can react to situations as they develop far better than any other caster. She has also gained slight boosts to charisma.

Story

Level 1
Cold air whipped through the stone building, causing Malin to pull his cloak tighter. The guards silently led him through labyrinthine rooms until, finally, they came to the door of the cell. With a groan only slightly less dreadful than the one it contained, it swung open. Within the barren room was a figure, a small figure.

''This is her?'' Malin asked the guard, bewildered. The guard nodded silently, seeming to withdraw slightly at the sight of the prisoner. Looking closer, Malin could see that she was chained hand and foot to the floor of the cell. Her eyes seemed to lash out at him for daring to enter the dank shadows that were her domain. The cleric, however, was unperturbed. ''I have come here to make you an offer,'' Malin stated, smiling cordially as he awaited her response..

Level 5
It had been several years since Malin freed Glim from that dismal prison. She had indeed proven a useful servant, one worthy of the Prince of Lies. Malin remembered having heard stories of how she could twist the luck of those she wanted to suffer, driving him to seek her out in the bleak prison cell. He never discovered exactly why she was imprisoned therein, and she was certainly not inclined to enlighten him. All he knew was that she had been there since she was a child.

She was beautiful, very beautiful for a gnome, in his opinion, yet her beauty always seemed to be somehow...wrong. In fact, all of her seemed to be wrong. Behind the beauty seemed to always be a wickedness that could not be measured; behind her smile was a savagery that challenged even the dark gods themselves. As he sat pondering this, she returned from her task. ''Is is done?'' he asked her curtly.

To his surprise (though it shouldn't have been), she laughed and tossed something across his desk. It was a bag, and inside it was something wet. Malin peered within the opening and immediately wished he hadn't. Glim laughed more at this, seemingly driven into hysterics by his discomfort. Then she winked and said, ''In case you were wondering, 'e is quite dead.'' Then she skipped out of the room, her height and gleeful demeanor giving her the appearance of a carefree schoolgirl. Feeling quite sick, Malin let the bag drop to the floor, and the mutilated severed head rolled out of it.

Level 7
Malin gasped in surprise and horror as he looked around what was left of his temple. His followers lay all around the room contorted into horrific positions. Blood seemed to be everywhere. He was, of course, quite sick. What had happened was clear enough to him. What he didn't understand was why she had done this. What could possibly have motivated her to kill her saviors, those who had freed her from imprisonment and had fed her lust for blood and death? The laughter continued rippling through the room. Malin listened, trying to discern if the sound was coming closer.

Her words come from behind him. ''I see you've found my handiwork. Beautiful isn't it?'' she asked, smirking, her dark armor coated in blood and entrails. Next to her was her horrific pet, a dark and shadowy cat that seemed a deeper shade of black than the shadows around her. It bared its teeth at him as he turned to face her, or so it seemed.

''Why... why would you do this?'' Malin stammered partly in anger, but mostly in abject terror.

''You never understood,'' she said, no longer laughing. This atypical seriousness was something Malin thought he would have been grateful for, but he certainly was not. It was even more horrifying. ''Little man, little king, or so he thought,'' she said, suddenly giggling. ''You tried to take from the dark master what was his, and he brought me to take from you everything that is and was yours, you poor dear. You tried to impose order on the dark master, laws. The dark master doesn't like laws...and I don't like you. Terrible shame...If I liked you this would be over much more quickly.''

No one knows what Malin's next words were, but he lived for a few more days under her ''supervision'' before he finally expired from the pain and fear. Glim smiled grimly as she strode out of the concealed church. The dark master must favor her indeed to let her do such work.

Level 8
It was not the first time she had heard it, the voice whispering maddeningly in her ear. It seemed to crack and twist as it spoke. Glimwyn knew the voice: it was the dark prince, her master. Before she met Malin she had never paid much heed to the call of religion. Now she knew that the dark prince was her master even then, guiding her hands and rewarding her desires. He was pleased with her. She had slain those who claimed to be his servants, slain those who tried to turn his dark gifts to their own petty ends. He would reward her with power beyond her wildest dreams, power that would make her a force of darkness to be recognized as a champion of the prince of lies on this plane.

As the pain wracked her body, she laughed. After all, the pain she would bear would be but a fraction of the pain she would inflict on her opponents, on the dark master's opponents. She cackled as the savage and maddened power of the insane god ripped through her body, remaking her from a simple servant of the dark god into his champion, his terrible servant.

Level 10
Aldric looked around the crime scene impassively. The bodies lay about the room, most mutilated, all dead. Though he certainly felt it, he displayed no sign of distress. His ranger companion lacked his paladin's reserve. She cursed loudly in surprise as she entered the room, and in that second Aldric envied her that. The bodies had all been tortured ritualistically. The cleric had told Aldric that most of them hadn't died for hours after. The pain they had endured must have been absolutely breaking.

''Who the... who would do this... to children?!?'' Anwyn cried. Her generally skillful elven vocabulary failed her as she surveyed the orphanage. Aldric didn't answer. No answer would assuage her pain, no answer would ever be sufficient. The one child Anwyn and Aldric didn't see amongst the dead was one who had left this place behind years before. Glim, the servant of the dark prince, had come home, if only briefly.

Aldric began to perform last rites on the children while continuing to investigate the scene. He heard his colleague say, ''I don't care how far I have to go. I'll find out who did this to you, and I will make them pay for this. I'll make them pay...'' As she finished her oath she burst into tears. While still impassive on the outside, internally Aldric echoed her oath, perhaps with even greater fervor than she did.

Level 15
He had come too late again. Perhaps his oath was foolish, but if it had consumed his life before, it would now consume him completely. Somehow this twisted lunatic was always a step ahead of him, always taunting him, always destroying the ones he cared about. Aldric sobbed, his paladin's reserve finally shattering under the strain. His wife, his only true love, was tied to the chair. He could see that she wasn't breathing. He knew that souls so battered and so badly punished in their last moments were unlikely to return to this mortal world. He knew that to resurrect her would only bring her back to a place where she could be made to suffer again. He could not have her brought into this world again to be taken from him again. There was only thing left. The gnome, the one who had done this to him - to her - would pay. He would make her suffer.

Level 16
Anwyn moved through the shadowy warehouse, her elven ears peaked to listen for the smallest sound. She and Aldric had continued on this quest, which had grown ever more bitter and dangerous. She wondered if this mad quest for vengeance was driving them to the brink. Aldric hardly ever spoke anymore and had grown far grimmer than a paladin ever had right to be. He was investigating the market place while she searched the building where minions of the shadowed gnome who had transformed their lives into hell were rumored to be hiding.

She felt the air tear from her lungs. There amongst the crates was Glim. She had her back turned to Anwyn; this was her chance. She could end this madness here now and for ever. She quietly and carefully drew out her longbow and notched an arrow, pulling it ever gently back, aiming very carefully. This might be her only shot.

The arrow flew straight and true slicing through the image and cutting off into the shadows. Anwyn gasped in horror as something cold and steely drove into her ribcage. That shot would be her last.

Coughing up blood she turned to see the gnome, who has now laughing maniacally. ''I won't give you the satisfaction...'' the elf stammered grimly before driving her arrow, the one she had been readying for the gnome, deeply into her breast. The gnome stopped laughing, looking down in a rage at the elf, who had robbed her of her fun.

It took Aldric nearly a week to recover all the mutilated body parts the gnome had spread throughout the city. At this point his oath of vengeance took on a new life. He would find the gnome, and he would kill her. He would tear her tiny heart out with his own bare hands. They say that it is a terrible thing to behold a paladin falling, but to look at him you would never have guessed at the rage and anger that had seated itself deeply in his bitter heart.

Level 18
Glim chortled, parrying another stroke from the foolish oaf. He was her masterpiece, as veritable a work of art as any painting. She had taken a noble paladin and twisted him into a shadowy reflection of herself. It was indeed magnificent to behold. He swung his blade at her again; again she parried and again she laughed. She reached out and touched him, sending of waves of shadowy electricity across his body. She was positively balling with laughter now.

The mighty paladin fell to his knees, broken by her might and control of magic. This was perfect, what better gift for her dark master than the soul of a fallen paladin. ''I see you learned the truth of things from me, the truth of violence,'' she said, even now unable to restrain her giggling. ''Shame you didn't learn the truth of power. Power that can't come from a sword, power that could only come from the Gods. Pity I had to teach you...'' Whatever she had meant to say afterward was distorted by her twisted laughter. She reached forward and struck the paladin once more with her magic. As she had taught him the meaning of power, so would she teach him the true meaning of suffering, of pain.

Level 20
Glim bowed at her dark master, at the approach of his great avatar. He had seen fit to reward her for her masterpiece. He stripped her of the last remaining shreds of a soul and remade her in his dark image. She was now and would forever be the servant of the Prince of Lies.

Desired Magic Items and Equipment

Charisma boosting magic item (such as the cloak of Charisma).
Masking Heavy Plate Armor (to avoid those pesky divinations. From the MIC)
Wight Hide Shield (If we're going to use SnB we might as well give out negative levels.
Magebane Longsword (MIC, complements her other mage stalking stuff.)

On CL
I could not find a source to verify that Divine Crusader would continue to grant CL increases after it granted spells. SRD states that it is generally the case, as I indicated with my mechanics fluff. I can see no reason why it would not be, but I can't post something that is subject to interpretation without mentioning it is.

Additional Options
There are several additional options for this build. There are several other deities with access to the illusion domain and most of these could be substituted. If LA buyback is allowed, I would strongly recommend looking at the Chaos Gnome. It loses the bonus to illusion DCs but boosts charisma.

If early entry isn't as important, Gnome Paragon is likely a very good option as it also boosts illusion abilities and charisma. One could also substitute a variant Paladin class for hexblade levels, although this would hurt your debuffing ability.

Lastly, those not in love with the idea of becoming an outsider have alternate ways to finish off the build. You could potentially finish all 5 levels of SCM rather than finishing off DC. If you've picked a good deity, you could finish the last three levels with Wonderworker and gain additional spells, although this would likely require bonus feats or flaws.

Sources
Faith's and Pantheons (Cyric and that juicy quote up there, I didn't take anything mechanical from it), Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, Races of Stone, PHB 2, MIC (for the desired items)

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:24 PM

The only way to serve the namesake better would be taking the Saint template.
Mother Teresa
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack[br]Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Bard 1|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Craft (Weaving), Perform, Know (Arcana), Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magic Device|Reach Spell, Melodic Casting|Bardic Music, Bardic Knack, countersong, Healing Hymn, Inspire Courage +1

2nd|Bard 2|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Craft (Weaving), Perform, Know (Arcana), Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magic Device|-|-

3rd|Bard 3|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Craft (Weaving), Perform, Know (Arcana), Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magic Device|Weapon Focus (Light Mace)|Inspire Competence (yay...)

4th|Bard 4|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Craft (Weaving), Perform, Know (Arcana), Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magic Device|-|-

5th|Bard 5|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Craft (Weaving), Perform, Know (Arcana), Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magic Device|-|-

6th|Bard 6|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+5|Craft (Weaving), Perform, Know (Arcana), Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magic Device|Enlarge Spell|(Unable to take, see later.)

7th|Bard 7|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+5|Craft (Weaving), Perform, Know (Arcana), Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magic Device|-|-

8th|Bard 8|
+6|
+2|
+6|
+6|Craft (Weaving), Perform, Know (Arcana), Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magic Device|-|Inspire Courage +2

9th|War Weaver 1
+6|
+2|
+6|
+8|Perform|Practical Metamagic|Eldritch Tapestry

10th|War Weaver 2|
+7|
+2|
+6|
+9|Perform|-|Quiescent Weaving 1

11th|Divine Crusader 1|
+7|
+4|
+6|
+11|Perform|-|Aura, Healing Domain.

12th|Divine Crusader 2|
+8|
+5|
+6|
+12|Perform|Metamagic School Focus|-

13th|Divine Crusader 3|
+9|
+5|
+7|
+12|Perform|-|Resistance to Electricity 5

14th|Divine Crusader 4|
+10|
+6|
+7|
+13|Perform|-|-

15th|Divine Crusader 5|
+10|
+6|
+7|
+13|Perform|Rapid Metamagic|Weapon Specialisation (Light Mace)

16th|Divine Crusader 6|
+11|
+7|
+8|
+14|Perform|-|Resistance to Acid 5

17th|Divine Crusader 7|
+12|
+7|
+8|
+14|Perform|-|Darkvision

18th|Divine Crusader 8|
+13|
+8|
+8|
+15|Perform|Draconic Aura (Vigor)|-

19th|Divine Crusader 9|
+13|
+8|
+9|
+15|Perform|-|Resistance to Acid and Electricity 10

20th|Divine Crusader 10|
+14|
+9|
+9|
+16|Perform|-|Perfect Self[/table]
SilverBrow Human,

Starting Stats:

12, 10, 16, 10, 8, 18

Levelup points go in Cha.

Bard Spells:

Level 0:
Detect Magic, Summon Instrument, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Cure Minor Wounds, Message.

Level 1:
Improvisation, Inspirational Boost, Cure Light Wounds, Charm Person.

Level 2:
Bladeweave, Cure Moderate Wounds, Suggestion, Heroism

Level 3:
Cure Serious Wounds, Blink, Glibness.

Mother Teresa is a singer initially, using her voice to help relax the soldiers as they come home from wars. She falls for a man who cannot live a life free of danger, and follows him to war as a nurse.

Teresa starts as a straight bard. She's okish at supporting, but her real role shines when healing. She adds her perform rank to all healing spells using Healing Hymn, which leads to a fairly impressive d8+14 healing at level 5 with a single L1 spell.

As she deals with the harshness of war, often having to take up her mace to protect the injured from raiders, she finds that simply healing or buffing one person at a time isn't enough. She needs to be able to heal more people than she can right now. She takes a couple of levels in War Weaver, gaining the ability to heal more than one person with a single spell.

She casts Reach CLW as a 2nd level spell, allowing her to heal everyone within 30' for d8+18, and since she can cast it from any slot, it's a really easy way to keep everyone refreshed.

Sadly, she finds that her bardic training is falling short on the healing front. There are some things that you just can't prevent with only cure light wounds.

Enter Divine Crusader. Not only is she gaining in the martial abilities that she uses to protect herself and the injured, her choice of Domain (Healing) sets her up to take 9th level healing spells and still be able to heal everyone with a LOT of spell slots. High Cha and 2 classes is a lot of spells to heal with.

At 20, she can cast CLW to heal everyone for d8+28, and has a vast selection of other healing spells.

Sources:

War-Weaver: Heroes of Battle.
Healing Hymn: Comp Div.
Bardic Knack: CChamp.
Silverbrow Human+Practical Meta: Races of the Dragon.
Melodic casting + rapid meta: Comp Mage
Draconic Aura: Dragon Magic

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:26 PM

Now all we need is a Thunderdome.
Maken'srelli "Mad Maks"(LE)
Build

Stats: 18Str/12Dex/14Con/8Int/8Wis/14Cha
Final class levels: 1Fallen Paladin/10Blackguard/3Ocular Adept/6Divine Crusader of The Great Mother
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack[br]Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Fallen Paladin(1)|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|Concentration 4, Hide 2, Know(Religion) 2|Power Attack, Cleave|(Smite Good +1/day)

2nd|Paladin>Blackguard(1)|
+2|
+4|
+0|
+0|Concentration 5, Hide2.5, Know(Religion) 2| |Aura of Evil, Detect Good, Poison Use

3rd|Paladin>Blackguard(2)|
+3|
+5|
+0|
+0|Concentration 6, Hide3, Know(Religion) 2|Improved Sunder|Dark Blessing, Smite good 1/day

4th|Paladin>Blackguard(3)|
+4|
+5|
+1|
+1|Concentration 7, Hide3.5, Know(Religion) 2| |Command Undead, aura of despair, Con +1

5th|Paladin>Blackguard(4)|
+5|
+6|
+1|
+1|Concentration 8, Hide 4, Know(Religion) 2| |Sneak Attack +1d6

6th|Paladin>Blackguard(5)|
+6|
+6|
+1|
+1|Concentration 8, Hide 4.5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 0.5|Weapon Focus(Greataxe)|Fiendish Servant, Smite good 2/day

7th|Paladin>Blackguard(6)|
+7|
+7|
+2|
+2|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 1| |

8th|Paladin>Blackguard(7)|
+8|
+7|
+2|
+2|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 2| |Sneak Attack +2d6, Wis+1

9th|Paladin>Blackguard(8)|
+9|
+8|
+2|
+2|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 3|Endurance|

10th|Paladin>Blackguard(9)|
+10|
+8|
+3|
+3|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 3| |

11th|Paladin>Blackguard(10)|
+11|
+9|
+3|
+3|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 4| |Sneak attack +3d6, Smite good 3/day

12th|Ocular Adept(1)|
+11|
+11|
+3|
+5|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 4, Spot 2|Combat Brute|Ocular Implant, Charm person ray, Wis+1

13th|Ocular Adept(2)|
+12|
+12|
+3|
+6|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 4, Spot 4| |Sleep Ray

14th|Ocular Adept(3)|
+13|
+12|
+4|
+6|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 4, Spot 6| |Inflict Moderate wounds ray

15th|Divine Crusader(1)|
+13|
+14|
+4|
+8|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 4, Ride 2, Spot 6|Tomb-tainted soul|Aura of Evil, Spells

16th|Divine Crusader(2)|
+14|
+15|
+4|
+9|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 4, Ride 4, Spot 6| | STR+1

17th|Divine Crusader(3)|
+15|
+15|
+5|
+9|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 4, Ride 6, Spot 6| | Resistance to Electricity 5

18th|Divine Crusader(4)|
+16|
+16|
+5|
+10|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 4, Ride 8, Spot 6|Mounted Combat|

19th|Divine Crusader(5)|
+16|
+16|
+5|
+9|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 4, Ride 10, Spot 6|Weapon Specialization(Greataxe)|

20th|Divine Crusader(6)|
+17|
+17|
+6|
+10|Concentration 8, Hide 5, Know(Religion) 2, Move Silent 4, Ride 12, Spot 6| |Resistance to Acid 5, STR+1[/table]

Spellcasting:

Paladin: Spells per day, with proper wisdom adjustment, before fall
{table=head]Level|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

4th|0|-|-|-

5th|0|-|-|-

6th|1|-|-|-

7th|1|-|-|-

8th|1|0|-|-

9th|1|0|-|-

10th|1|1|-|-

11th|1|1|0|-[/table]

Blackguard:Again, with proper wisdom adjustment
{table=head]Level|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

11th+|2|2|2|1[/table]

Ocular Adept
{table=head]Level|0th|1st

12th|1+1|-

13th|2+1|-

14th+|2+1|1+1
[/table]

Divine Crusader of The Great Mother, Strength Domain casting
{table=head]Level|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th

15th|0|-|-|-|-|-

16th|1|0|-|-|-|-

17th|2|1|0|-|-|-

18th|2|2|1|0|-|-

19th|3|2|2|1|0|-

20th|3|3|2|2|1|0[/table]

Build Notes

To adapt this build for a desirable build, either scrap the Divine Crusader side, or the Ocular Adapt side, however the fluff of a Divine crusader denotes that the character has been working for that specific deity for some time, so a straight adaptation directly from a 11th fallen paladin straight to Divine Crusader is more than iffy, unless you have some sort of nonstandard deity that is both good and evil (such if Heironious and Hextor were siamese twins and you have to revere both of them to revere one.)

It should be noted that falling while in a party is rather a mean move, unless the party is predominantly evil or Jerkful Neutral to begin with, so if you're starting prior to ECL 11 and not in an evil tolerant campaign, forget about this entirely.

It should be noted that there are paladin like PrCs that do require stealth, so taking crossclass hide and move silent for a paladin is not alltogether unheard of, however move silent and mounted combat do not synergize, so feel free to move those skill points somewhere much better.

This build is also sadly close to being a good shock charger build, but lacks the feats and skills to do so, but some adjustments always make things better, this is just one way that I could have seen the build work out.

Level 1-11

This build is highly mutable in the order in which you take the feats. You're more running off of power attack, a high strength score, and those feats than you are the paladin abilities, but the same could be said of almost all non-ToB melee builds. The smites do help out though, a lot.

Level 12-14

All of a sudden, you have sneak attacks, a 4th level spell, and a ray of charm to compliment the sneak attacks. Sad to say that these levels are when this build shines the most. This is not to any fault of the Divine Crusader, or to say it's boosted because of Ocular Adept. This is purely from having access to this many Blackguard spells this early in the game.

Level 15-20

Finally into the Divine crusader, the build starts to slow down mainly due to starting a third separate casting advancement, but starts to pick back up after a few levels, but doesn't become great again until 20th level, when you can get a use of Righteous Might, and if you can get your Wis high enough, then TWO uses of it a day.

Important gear

Early on you'll want a Periapt of Wisdom, but otherwise stick to Macy's everywarrior wear line. Scrolls are also quite good, "because you can" is always a good answer to why you have them, and having three or four variations of cleric casting means you'll almost always have a divine spell on one of your lists.

References

PHB:Paladin, Feats:(Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Sunder, Weapon Focus, Endurance, Mounted Combat)
DMG: Blackguard
CDiv: Divine Crusader
CWar: Feat: Combat Brute
Libris Mortis: Feat: Tomb-tainted soul
Forgotten Realms Faiths and Pantheons/Lords of Madness: Ocular Adept PrC and The Great Mother deity info

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:30 PM

No matter if he's saving humans or elves, they're not going to be happy about the other half.
Braham, the half-elf Messiah
Half-elf Duskblade 7 / Divine Crusader 10 / Duskblade +3

Story

No matter where you go, the greed of Man knows no bounds. And this is how the Maestor war began, the "noble" human house who dared lay claim to the lands where the elves had lived since the beginning of time.

And while not all men are evil, those who are will always find a way to mislead the innocent into believing their cause is just, as was the case with Rodrich. The brave commander fell in love with one of the elven prisoners, Ardyla, and their romance made his heart change and see reality for what it was.

He managed to free her and keep her safe in one of his villas, and he gathered his trusted allies, founding a resistance group whose aim was to undermine the confidence the Senate had in the Maestor house.

Rodrick was eventually captured betrayed by his own friends, and tortured. He never betrayed his lover, however, and for ten days and ten nights he kept silent without uttering a single cry. Ardyla, full of sorrow, fled as far as she could and gave birth to her son.

She named his son Braham, and he managed to heal her broken heart. Never did she hide the truth from him as she raised him in the elven lands, teaching him everything she knew, and training him in the ancient art of the Duskblade.
General Information

Race: Half-Elf

Racial Features: Immunity to sleep, +2 bonus to saves against enchantments, low-light vision, +1 bonus to Listen, Search, Spot, +2 bonus to Diplomacy and Gather Information, Elven Blood.

Alignment: Chaotic Good

Deity: Corellon Larethian

Divine Crusader Domain: Community*

*Domain Clarification: This is the SRD Community Domain (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Community_Domain), not the Spell Compendium one. This version of the Community Domain can also be found in the Book of Exalted Deeds. The reason is probably that the "Greater Status" spell (which this character is based upon) exists only in BoED and SRD, but not in Spell Compendium, so they replaced it with Tongues. The other change is mostly irrelevant.

Domain Power: Calm Emotions SLA 1/day, +2 Diplomacy

Starting ability scores:

Str 14
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 16

Ability scores at level 20:

Str 14
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 20

The build

The half-elf Messiah

{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Duskblade 1|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Concentration 4, Knowledge (religion) 4, Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (nature) 4 |Weapon Focus (Longsword)|Arcane attunement, armored mage (light)

2nd|Duskblade 2|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Concentration +1, Knowledge (religion)+1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (nature) +1||Combat Casting

3rd|Duskblade 3|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Concentration +1, Knowledge (religion)+1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (nature) +1|Obtain Familiar|Arcane channeling

4th|Duskblade 4|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Concentration +1, Knowledge (religion)+1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (nature) +1||Armored mage (medium)

5th|Duskblade 5|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Concentration +1, Knowledge (religion)+1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (nature) +1||Quick cast 1/day

6th|Duskblade 6|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+5|Concentration +1, Knowledge (religion)+1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (nature) +1|Power Attack|Spell power +2

7th|Duskblade 7|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+5|Concentration +1, Knowledge (religion)+1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (nature) +1||Armored mage (heavy shield)

8th|Divine Crusader 1|
+7/+2|
+7|
+2|
+7|Diplomacy 4||Aura

9th|Divine Crusader 2|
+8/+3|
+8|
+2|
+8|Concentration +2, Diplomacy +2|Improved Familiar|

10th|Divine Crusader 3|
+9/+4|
+8|
+3|
+8|Diplomacy +4||Resistance to Electricity 5

11th|Divine Crusader 4|
+10/+5|
+9|
+3|
+9|Knowledge (religion) +4||

12th|Divine Crusader 5|
+10/+5|
+9|
+3|
+9|Diplomacy +4|Practiced Spellcaster (Divine Crusader)|Weapon Specialization

13th|Divine Crusader 6|
+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+4|
+10|Diplomacy +2, Knowledge (religion) +2||Resistance to Acid 5

14th|Divine Crusader 7|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+4|
+10|Concentration +4||Darkvision

15th|Divine Crusader 8|
+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+4|
+11|Diplomacy +2, Knowledge (religion) +2|Arcane Strike|

16th|Divine Crusader 9|
+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+5|
+11|Concentration +2, Diplomacy +1, Knowledge (religion) +1||Resistance to Electricity and Acid 10

17th|Divine Crusader 10|
+14/+9/+4|
+12|
+5|
+12|Concentration +2, Diplomacy +1, Knowledge (religion) +1||Perfect Self

18th|Duskblade 8|
+15/+10/+5|
+13|
+5|
+13|Concentration +1, Knowledge (religion)+1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (nature) +1|Knowledge Devotion|

19th|Duskblade 9|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+13|
+6|
+13|Concentration +1, Knowledge (religion)+1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (nature) +1||

20th|Duskblade 10|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+14|
+6|
+14|Concentration +1, Knowledge (religion)+1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (nature) +1||Quick cast 2/day[/table]

Duskblade Spells

{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|New Spells Known

1st|3|2|-|-|Acid splash, Disrupt undead, Ray of frost, Touch of fatigue, Chill touch, Resist energy

2nd|4|3|-|-|Ray of enfeeblement

3rd|5|4|-|-|True strike

4th|6|5|-|-|Obscuring mist

5th|6|5|2|-|Dimension hop

6th|6|6|3|-|Swift fly

7th|6|6|5|-|Swift invisibility

18th|6|7|6|-|Touch of idiocy

19th|6|7|6|2|Regroup

20th|6|8|7|3|Protection from energy[/table]
**Spells per day are listed without bonus spells from high Intelligence.

Divine Crusader Spells

{table=head]Level|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th|New Spells Known

8th|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|Bless

9th|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|Status

10th|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|Prayer

11th|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|Greater Status

12th|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|Telepathic Bond

13th|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|Heroes' Feast

14th|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|Refuge

15th|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|Sympathy

16th|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|Mass Heal

17th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|[/table]
**Spells per day are listed without bonus spells from high Charisma.

Build explanation

This guy is a leader, and a team player. He is the "glue" that holds the party together. What he lacks in power he makes up for in versatility and support. He's definitely able to hold his own in melee combat, wearing Mithral Full Plate Armor, and using Arcane channeling, Power Attack (he holds his Longsword with both hands) and Arcane Strike, but that's not his main strength.

The Community domain may seem like a subpar option at first, but it's actually this build's biggest asset. Greater Status is a Community-only spell, and coupled with Telepathic Bond it allows Braham to contribute to battle even when he's separated from his party. In fact, he can contribute while lying down on his bed... which might as well be on the Moon. Distance no longer matters, he can apply any 1st or 2nd level harmless touch spell he knows (this includes Dimension Hop if he has line of sight) to his party members, while telling them what to do via Telepathic Bond.

He also makes sure the party is as prepared as possible before heading out. This includes a Heroes' Feast and a Refuge, so that everyone can retreat to HQ if they are in mortal peril.

Quick Cast 2/day means he won't "waste" a turn buffing or helping a party member, or that he'll be able to do it twice in a round. He has a couple of "swift" spells available too.

A party that has this kind of leader can separate into multiple groups while still being able to communicate with each other and with the leader (who is aware of everything that's happening to everyone), which translates into a much better coordination than usual. Guerilla tactics, ambushes, or dungeons which require splitting the party are easy when this guy is the leader.

If for some reason Greater Status is dispelled, his Air elemental familiar can move up to 100' and Braham can apply a touch spell through it. It can also flank thanks to its Small size and it benefits from its master's high BAB and HP. Once per day, Braham can scry on it, which makes it possible (although not as effective as actually being there) to use spells that require line of sight, such as Dimension Hop, on allies that are near the familiar, even when Braham is not present. An Air elemental can speak, so it can use wands.

Mass Heal at level 15 is just the cherry on the cake.

In short, Braham is an adept swordsman who can buff his allies and control the battle in unique ways. He's also a skilled Diplomat.
Build at levels 1-7Braham's desire to end the war burned fiercely in his heart. Now that he was old and powerful enough, he and his mother rebuilt the resistance group. Malcom, a powerful Barbarian that had been his father's friend was the first to join, and they recruited a Shadowdancer named Soren while travelling along the east coast. In the elven village of Fir'lial they were joined by Sila and Daesana, twin sorceresses and childhood friends of Ardyla.

At low levels Braham plays like any standard Duskblade, so he shouldn't fall too far behind the rest of the party even if they are much more powerful than him.
Build at level 12 (sweet spot)But then tragedy struck. Daesana had betrayed them and they were ambushed by the elves, who didn't want the war to end either, instead prefering to conquer the human kingdom that had dared to attack them. Ardyla gave her life to help them escape.

That night, through his tears, he cursed Daesana and prayed to Corellon for guidance.

That night, his sword flashed in contact with his tears, and in tune with Corellon Larethian.

That was the night when the course of his life, and of his sword, changed. His mother's sacrifice would not be in vain. And the powers of the elven god flowed into him, the young half-elf who wanted to change the world.

Level 12 is when everything comes together. Every level past this is just adding to what's already there. He can now do most of the stuff mentioned in the Build explanation section.

Build at level 20For weeks they had sabotaged the enemy's weapon and food supplies, burned their tents, and delayed the armies' approach. Not once were they caught, thanks to their leader's handy Refuge spells. The time for the final strike drew near. They knew the risks, but they were determined to do it all the same.

Soren had discovered that the following day, both the human and elven Senates would be unprotected simultaneously for little more than an hour, a perfect chance to make them listen. They would have to split up and take the opportunity. That night, they had what could have been their last dinner together, a feast worthy of the heroes they were.

Braham went with Malcom to the human capital, where they had to face his father's betrayers. Sila and Soren headed for the elven Senate, but Daesana intercepted them.

The confrontations proved to be tough - too tough, perhaps. Daesana was too powerful for Soren and Sila, who weren't expecting to have to fight, and Braham had to help them through their telepathic bond.

He left most of the fighting to Malcom while he concentrated on helping the others. He turned Soren invisible after Sila had dispelled her sister's enhanced vision, and that was the end of Daesana.

Braham and Malcom continued to fight their own battle, but they were heavily outnumbered, wounded and tired. The half-elf concentrated and channeled Corellon's divine power through his body, healing both himself and the barbarian with a powerful spell. This turned the tide of the battle and they were soon victorious.

The Senates were forced to listen, and Braham's natural charisma did the rest.

And so, his dream was fulfilled, the war over and justice served. Both kingdoms were now allies, and Braham and his friends formed a new Senate, keeping watch over the peace for the rest of their lives.

With Divine Crusader finished, he gets 3 more levels of Duskblade, adding new options to his repertoire. He's now an Outsider and has Knowledge Devotion, granting him new bonuses.

Equipment and other optionsBraham benefits from every single ability score, so any equipment that boosts them would be useful.

+1 Sudden Stunning Longsword, adding other properties as you see fit.

Mithral Full Plate Armor, enchanted as desired.

Eternal Wands are very useful, adding touch spells to use through Greater Status. In particular, an Eternal Wand of Chain of Eyes would be great for this character, allowing him to actually see the battlefield while separated from the group (so that he can use Dimension Hop and other Line of Sight spells). His familiar could use some wands as well, since it can speak.

Metamagic Rods are always useful. Sadly, as a spontaneous caster, Braham can't make use of Quicken Spell rods.

Other than that, the usual equipment will do fine (Cloak/Vest of Resistance, Belt of Battle, Boots of Speed, whatever).

A couple of Duskblade levels could be replaced by Paladin, which would boost his saves enormously and give him access to Divine Might.

Arcane Disciple is another option, for the Protection Domain, but Sanctuary's DC would be too low to be of use and Shield Other is kind of risky.

Sources
PHB, PHBII (Duskblade), CD (Divine Crusader), CW (Improved Familiar, Arcane Strike), Complete Champion (Knowledge Devotion), SRD / BoED (Community Domain)

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:32 PM

Now we have someone to blame for our natural 1's.
Lord of Misfortune

*Stat boosts from levels go to charisma
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack[br]Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Hexblade 1|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+2|Knowledge(arcane) 4, Spellcraft 4, Concentration 4|Exotic Weapon Proficiency (scourge), Weapon Focus (scourge)|Hexblade’s Curse 1/day

2nd|Hexblade 2|
+2|
+0|
+0|
+3|Knowledge(arcana) 5, Spellcraft 5, Concentration 5|-|Arcane Resistance

3rd|Hexblade 3|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+3|Knowledge(arcane) 6, Spellcraft 6, Concentration 6|Power Attack|Mettle

4th|Paladin of Slaughter 1|
+4|
+3|
+1|
+3|Concentration 7, Knowledge(religion) 2|-|Aura of Evil, Smite Good 1/day, detect good

5th|Paladin of Slaughter 2|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+3|Concentration 8, Spellcraft 7|-|Divine Grace, Deadly Touch

6th|Paladin of Slaughter 3|
+6|
+4|
+2|
+4|Concentration 9, Spellcraft 8|Blind Fight|Debilitating Aura, Divine Health

7th|Paladin of Slaughter 4|
+7|
+5|
+2|
+4|Concentration 10, Spellcraft 9|-|Rebuke Undead

8th|Divine Crusader 1|
+7|
+7|
+2|
+6|Concentration 11, Spellcraft 10|-|Aura of Evil

9th|Divine Crusader 2|
+8|
+8|
+2|
+7|Concentration 12, Spellcraft 11| Divine Might|-

10th|Divine Crusader 3|
+9|
+8|
+3|
+8|Concentration 13, Spellcraft 12|-|Resistance to Electricity 5

11th|Divine Crusader 4|
+10|
+9|
+3|
+9|Concentration 14, Spellcraft 13|-|-

12th|Divine Crusader 5|
+10|
+9|
+3|
+9|Concentration 15, Spellcraft 14|Divine Shield, Weapon Specialization(Scourge)| Bonus Feat: Weapon Specialization

13th|Divine Crusader 6|
+11|
+10|
+4|
+10|Concentration 16, Spellcraft 15|-|Resistance to Acid 5

14th|Divine Crusader 7|
+12|
+10|
+4|
+10|Concentration 17, Spellcraft 16|-|Darkvision

15th|Divine Crusader 8|
+13|
+11|
+4|
+11|Concentration 18, Spellcraft 17|Extra Turning|-

16th|Divine Crusader 9|
+13|
+11|
+5|
+11|Concentration 19, Spellcraft 18|-|Resistance to Acid and Electricity 10

17th|Divine Crusader 10|
+14|
+12|
+5|
+12|Concentration 20, Spellcraft 19|-|Perfect Self

18th|Chaotician 1|
+15|
+12|
+7|
+12|Concentration 21, Spellcraft 20|Extra Turning|Chaotic Contagion, scofflaw

19th|Chaotician 2|
+16|
+12|
+8|
+12|Concentration 22, Spellcraft 21 |-|Anarchic Grace 1/day

20th|Chaotician 3|
+17|
+13|
+8|
+13|Concentration 23, Spellcraft 22|-|Babble, Clarity of Confusion[/table]

Divine Crusader Spells per day(Luck Domain)[Does not include bonus spells]

{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|-|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-

5th|-|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-

6th|-|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-

7th|-|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-

8th|-|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-

9th|-|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0

10th|-|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1[/table]

General Information

Deckard Malgus, CE Male Human, Lord of Misfortune
32 Point Build
Strength: 14
Dexterity: 10
Constitution: 14
Intelligence:10
Wisdom:8
Charisma: 18

A Tale of Woe

The black halls of the citadel rang with the sound of conflict. As the last of Beshaba’s warriors fall before the blades of the forces of good, Torm’s champions enter the hall to confront Beshaba’s chosen, the infamous Lord of Misfortune. The three champions, Heward, the human paladin, Vishaviel, the elven mage, and Sturnock, the orcish fighter, cringe as they enter the zone of the Forbiddance spell around the throne room. They pause as they see their dread foe lounging on his throne. The paladin draws his blade and shouts “Prepare to die wretch!” The Lord of Misfortune smirks and waves his hand, causing the enchanted doors to shut behind the champions. Raising his hand into the air, he shouts “Aid your servants Beshaba. Bring your faithful back to serve once more!” Powerful divine magic radiates from his hands, piercing the entire castle. Barely audible, shouts of alarm emit from outside the room as battle begins anew. The Lord of Misfortune draws his scourge and readies his shield, as the orcish warrior roars a challenge and the elf begins to cast a spell. Completing his spell, the elf begins to move impossibly fast, at a rate imperceptible to any of the warriors there, beginning his task. Less than a fraction of a second later, he returns to his original location, just as five mighty explosions rock the room. As dust and ash swirl around the room, the wizard smiles, confident that their foe has been destroyed. However, as the smoke clears, Deckard’s form becomes clear, with his eyebrow cocked in apparent derision. Gritting his teeth in anger, the paladin charges, with the orc not far behind. Deflectin their blows with ease, the Lord of Misfortune lashes back with his scourge, gravely injuring the duo. They stagger backwards, as the mage finishes another incantation and a ray of thin green death shoots from his hand, hitting Deckard square in the chest, to no apparent effect. Shouting in desperation, the wizard again accelerates, rapidly casting a spell that creates a rapidly shimmering multicolored plane of light between them and their advancing foe. The Lord of Misfortune strides through the wall, completely unharmed, striking the paladin and fighter down as he walks relentlessly towards the wizard. Recovering from his daze in time for another spell, the wizard attempts to cast just as Deckard’s mailed fist closes around his throat, unleashing burning pain upon him, causing the wizard to botch the precise wording of his spell. Collapsing to the ground, the wizard looks up to see the Lord of Misfortune standing above him. Deckard smiles in amusement “Looks like you’ve lost. Better luck next time.” The scourge rips into the elf, ending his life.

Build Explanation

Deckard’s affiliation for the forces of ill fortune is apparent from the beginning, with his ability to curse his enemies and rivals. As he became more experienced, he was called to the service of Beshaba, the Faerunian deity of misfortune, as an evil paladin, and then as a Divine Crusader for her dark cause. With divine grace and arcane resistance, the Lord of Misfortune will almost always save against spells and other effects that allow saves. With the help of a ring of evasion and his mettle ability, it becomes much more difficult for enemy spellcasters to hurt him. With a decent BAB, access to full plate and heavy shields, and Divine Might and Divine Shield, the Lord of Misfortune functions as a self-buffing gish. His most powerful ability comes at level 16(at the earliest) when he gets access to the spell Miracle, although the spells he gains through the luck domain are all potent buffs that allow him to function better in combat. Deckard’s levels in Chaotician increase his control of the chaotic effects of luck, allowing him to manipulate the effects of chaos to his advantage. Paladin of Slaughter 4 then Hexblade 3 is more efficient in terms of building by allowing the character to take Divine Might earlier, but makes less sense when it comes to possible reasons for taking the levels in that order, which is why this build has Hexblade 3 then Paladin of Slaughter 4.

Level Showcase

Level 16
The “sweet spot” of the build, the Lord of Misfortune can use a ninth level spell, miracle, before most casters receive access to it, and should normally have the wealth to capitalize on his abilities. At this point he should have good AC, great saves, and be able to do decent damage with divine might.
Level 20
At this point the Lord of Misfortune has more than enough turn undead uses to fight over the course of a day and can use his potent self buffing spells many times over the course of a day as well.

Tactics by level and playabilityl

From level 1 to 8, besides high BAB and some bonuses to saves, there’s nothing particularly potent that the Lord of Misfortune possesses on his own. His damage comes from regular melee attacks from his weapon of choice, the scourge, and he is mainly reliant on full plate and a heavy shield to avoid damage. If he can acquire a sudden stunning or stunning surge weapon, he gains a potent stunning ability that greatly enhances his abilities during these levels. These are the hardest levels of the build, but the character is neither inordinately weak or inordinately strong at this point, with the ability to stun enemies compensating for lesser damage output.
At level 9 and 12 the Lord of Misfortune becomes a much stronger gish, boosting both his damage and AC by a considerable amount, not to mention gaining access to more spells. Through levels 9-15 the character is extremely hardy and has a reasonable damage output.
At level 16 the Lord of Misfortune gets his most powerful ability, the ability to cast miracle, and has the option of using miracle to end combat rather than melee fighting, which is still his primary method of dealing with enemies.
For the remainder of his levels, the Lord of Misfortune continues to grow stronger, but does not gain any powerful new method of dealing with enemies.
Also of note, the deadly touch ability is useful as a once per day spell disruption against casters by forcing them to make a fairly difficult concentration check.

Item Wishlist

A ring of evasion is useful because of the abnormally high saves that the Lord of Misfortune will have.

Stat boosting items to Cha,Str,Con, and Dex would be useful. Charisma being the primary stat, Str adding to both damage and accuracy, con for obvious reasons, and dex if Deckard has access to mithril full plate. A belt of magnificence would be useful for this.

Divine Crusader gives darkvision, but for most of his levels Deckard needs a way to see in the dark,, not to mention see through illusions.

AC boosting items, especially full plate and a heavy shield. With Divine Shield and other AC boosting items, Deckard can reach pretty high AC, making him tough for both monsters and people with class levels to hit.

A sudden stunning weapon is very powerful for this build, as is a stunning surge weapon. If possible, get a weapon with both.

Items that give additional turn undead uses are useful to help the Lord of Misfortune fight for a longer period of time. If nightstick stacking is accepted, he can buy those and use some of his extra turning feats for other feats. I’d switch them for mage slayer and practiced spell caster, or mage slayer and pierce magical concealment.

Sources

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting: Scourge
Unearthed Arcana: Paladin of Slaughter
Complete Warrior: Hexblade, Divine Might, Divine Shield
PHB: Extra Turning, Paladin, Power Attack
Planar Handbook: Chaotician
Faiths and Pantheons: Beshaba

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:33 PM

He specializes in protection. Of himself.
The Story of Uruk
Far in the north, sleeping beneath the eternal ice, lies the father of giants. His dreams flare brightly as colors in the sky, and his descendents haunt the cold mountains. When children are born strange and deformed, the most backwater tribes leave the babes in the foothills of these mountains as sacrifice to Ulutiu. But sometimes, the dreaming forefather of the giants smiles down upon these forgotten scions, and the babes survive, far more powerful for the changes he has wrought upon them in his uneasy, eternal slumber.

Uruk was one such boy. He was too large at birth, and the trial of his coming slew his mother. The tribe did not know who his father was, though the high priest suspected that the cursed child was his own get. Despite his handsome features, the priest declared the overlarge boy to be spawn of Ulutiu and took the boy out to the mountains. But at the foothills of these mountains, he was beset by a lone frost giant, and killed. The frost giant had just lost her own son, and finding that the man thing had been carrying a newborn babe, took this as an omen from the Giant-father that she was to raise the man-cub.

And so Uruk grew, raised in the worship of the Ulutiu. And on his tenth birthday, when the Giant-kin who raised him declared him a man, he swore an oath of servitude and protection to Ulutiu, to protect and respect all Giant-kin. Thus, Uruk became the Guardian of Ulutiu, his favored champion, devoted to protection and warrior without equal.

Uruk, Guardian of Ulutiu
{table=head]Level|Class|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features
1|Favoured Soul 1|0|2|2|2|Spellcraft 4, Jump 4, Know(Rel) 2, Concentration 2|Jotunbrud, Power Attack|
2|Favoured Soul 2|1|3|3|3|Spellcraft 5, Jump 5, Concentration 3||
3|Favoured Soul 3|2|3|3|3|Spellcraft 6, Concentration 5|Improved Bullrush, Weapon Focus (Longspear)|
4|Fighter 1|3|5|3|3|Spellcraft 7, Jump 6||+1 Cha
5|Dungeon Crasher Fighter 2|4|6|3|3|Spellcraft 8, Jump 7|Knockback|Dungeon Crasher +4d6
6|Fighter 3|5|6|4|4|Spellcraft 9, Jump 8|Leap Attack|
7|Fighter 4|6|7|4|4|Spellcraft 10, Jump 9||
8|Fighter 5|7|7|4|4|Spellcraft 11, Jump 10|Shock Trooper|+1 Cha
9|Divine Crusader 1|7|9|4|6|Spellcraft 12, Concentration 7|Practiced Spellcaster|Protection Domain, Aura
10|Divine Crusader 2|8|10|4|7|Spellcraft 13, Concentration 8||
11|Divine Crusader 3|9|10|5|7|Spellcraft 14, Concentration 9||Resistance to electricity 5
12|Divine Crusader 4|10|11|5|8|Spellcraft 15, Concentration 10|Extraordinary Spell Aim|+1 Cha
13|Divine Crusader 5|10|11|5|8|Spellcraft 16, Concentration 11|Weapon Spec(Longspear)|
14|Divine Crusader 6|11|12|6|9|Spellcraft 17, Concentration 12||Resistance to acid 5
15|Dungeon Crasher Fighter 6|12|7|10|Spellcraft 18, Jump 11|Piercing Weapon Mastery|Dungeon Crasher +8d6
16|Divine Crusader 7|13|13|7|10|Spellcraft 18, Concentration 13||Darkvision, +1 Cha
17|Divine Crusader 8|14|14|7|11|Spellcraft 19, Concentration 14||
18|Divine Crusader 9|14|14|8|11|Spellcraft 20, Concentration 15|Driving Attack|Resistance to acid and electricity 10
19|Divine Crusader 10|15|15|8|12|Spellcraft 21, Concentration 16||Perfect Self
[/table]

Spells:
{table=head]Level|FS-0|FS-1|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9
1|5|3|||||||||
2|6|4|||||||||
3|6|5|||||||||
4|6|5|||||||||
5|6|5|||||||||
6|6|5|||||||||
7|6|5|||||||||
8|6|5|||||||||
9|6|5|0||||||||
10|6|5|1|0|||||||
11|6|5|2|1|0||||||
12|6|5|2|2|1|0|||||
13|6|5|3|2|2|1|0||||
14|6|5|3|3|2|2|1|0|||
15|6|5|3|3|2|2|1|0|||
16|6|5|3|3|3|2|2|1|0||
17|6|5|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|
18|6|5|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0
19|6|5|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1
[/table]
Spells Known:
Favoured Soul:
0th level: Cure Minor Wounds, detect magic, light, mending, create water
1st level: Blade of Blood, Healthful Rest, Protection from Chaos, Weildskill
Divine Crusader: Protection domain (see below)

Use of Secret Ingredient:
Requirements: Although the +7 BAB requirement somewhat limits the choices available for entry (you can just barely make it with 10 levels of 3/4 BAB), the only real requirements are the alignment and weapon focus feat. While taking cleric and choosing the War domain might have worked, I thought it eminently appropriate to enter via the weapon focus ability granted to favoured souls. This slowed down entry by a level, but the class also did something very important - it made spellcraft a class skill.
Spellcasting: This is the primary class feature of the class, despite its rather stringent limits. In a way, you can think of this class as getting 9 different spell-like-abilities 3-5 times per day each. That's how I'm going to look at them. Each spell in the domain will be considdered seperately.
Domain: The Protection Domain's power refers to 'cleric level' specifically. This is tough, because you don't have any cleric levels. Most reasonable GMs would let you interpret this as Divine Crusader level. While it's a very nice power, it's still only a 1/day boost to a saving throw, so whether you get it or not is not a big deal. It would be nice to have, though.
Energy Resistence: It's always nice to be resistent to different kinds of energies. And with the Shield Other spell, it becomes several times more useful, as you're providing that resistence by proxy to one or more party members.
Weapon Specialization: By itself it may be nothing special, but Weapon Specialization is a requirement to several other very nice feats. In this case, it's being used to get to the Driving Attack feat - which is awesome in combo with a dungeon-crashing charger.
Darkvision: Thanks to that 'add 30' to existing darkvision' clause, you'll be getting 150' darkvision - which is the largest darkvision range I've heard of.
Perfect Self: You gain the Native Outsider type, which is probably one of the nicest types available. This and a CL 5 eternal wand of Alter Self will let you pull off some really spiffy tricks.
1st level spell: Sanctuary is a decent short term self buff, in addition to being a combat utility spell. It may seem like a rather useless buff spell to some, but note that the person warded with sanctuary can still use 'non-attack spells'. Every one of the spells you can cast is a 'non-attack spell'.
2nd level spell: With your significant reserves of HP and your Fast Healing 5 from the Feral template, the Shield Other spell is something that you use on anyone you want to keep alive. A truly excellent buff spell for your companions.
3rd level spell: Protection from Energy can fill the gaps in your energy resistences, allowing you to choose which energy type you're going to defend against. Either applied to yourself while you've got shield other up on several allies, or else applied directly to allies to help their survivability.
4th level spell: Spell Immunity is the cunning parry of the high-end game. Properly used, a casting of spell immunity can be the gateway to some truly awesome 'just as planned' moments. While it only allows you immunity to 4th level and lower spells, this includes spells like Charm and Dispel Magic.
5th level spell: Spell Resistence is a very nice buff spell. Your CL isn't all that great, but it's a still a worthwhile protective buff if you know you're going to be getting into a magic duel sometime soon.
6th level spell: This is the real cornerstone spell of the build - Antimagic Field. By itself, this is a really awesome power that can virtually shut down about 80% of things that you'll encounter. And while many of your own special abilities rely on magic to work (spellcasting, resistences, etc.), the majority of them (pounce, darkvision, fast healing, dungeon crasher, power attack, etc) do not, leaving you in a vastly superior relative position. More importantly, if you can get your Extraordinary Spell Aim ability to work (which you should have a 50/50 shot at by the time you get this spell, and which will improve each level), then you'll be far and away the most deadly mage hunter around.
7th level spell: Repulsion is an odd duck, but a very handy tool to have in your toolbox regardless. With just a bit of tactical awareness, you can play battlefield controller while also dealing large amounts of pounce damage. If nothing else, you can stop a riot or a horde of goblins with it. If it turns out that the spell doesn't get used that often, you can always prepare more Antimagic Fields.
8th level spell: Mind blank is perhaps the quintessential high-level buff spell. It lasts 24 hours, and you can probably prepare it twice, possibly 3 times. Share it with the whole party!
9th level spell: This is perhaps the most horrendously evil thing you can do to your enemies. The trick with this spell is that you cast it on the second round of combat - right after charging into the middle of the nastiest nasties. Then, on the third round of combat, you move around behind one and use Knockback to whack one into the sphere. Then repeat the process on every other monster in sight. You can literally put a 'enemy dies here' spot on the playing board, and then use your bullrushes and Repulsion spell to herd your enemies to their eventual slaughter. And I'm not talking about using this to take out goblins - this trick works equally well against Beholders, Iron Golems and Gelatenous Cubes.

Tactics:
Level 6: This is the point where your primary tactic comes on-line. Whether you're wielding a Longspear or tearing into the enemy with your bare claws, between power attack, pounce, knockback and dungeoncrasher you'll be dealing some serious hurt to the enemy. Add in the fact that you can use Blade of Blood quite often while fast-healing away the damage it deals to you and you're a serious threat to anything on the field. When you considder that you've also got 2 claw attacks, Improved Grab + Jotunbrud, you're nearly as much of a threat unarmed as you are armed with your favorite weapon, and in many circumstances you may choose to forego the longspear in favor of grappling and mauling a single target.
Level 10: You've gotten 2 levels of divine crusader and now your secondary function comes on-line. With 3+ castings of Shield Other at CL 6 or better, you're now the ultimate body guard. You can choose 1 ally, or spread your protection around the party, but either way you'll be soaking up and fast-healing damage like nothing else. And other than watching your distance from the other PCs, this does nothing to curtail your primary duty as charging-ginsu-machine. And if you ever get seriously hurt, Sanctuary acts as a time-out button in the middle of a fight so you can heal up and re-buff.
Level 14: Once again, you've got a new skill that's awesome. Cast an Antimagic Field that's targetted to miss you and you're still benefitting from all of your buffs (and your allies are still sharing damage with you) while you deny the same benefit to your enemies. Charge the caster and they cannot cast. Charge the monster and they lose all SU and SLA powers. This is a real game-changer.
Level 19: You've got all your dirty tricks. Prismatic sphere, driving attack, perfect self. You are a truly terrifying gish, with spells to deal with most situations and a 'you'll have to go through my dead body' attitude regarding harm to your allies.

Equipment suggestions:
There's not a lot you need in equipment to really get going. Stat increasing items are nice, and especially a +6 charisma item will allow get you a bonus 9th level spell, but every attribute is useful to you (even Int, for spellcraft checks), so the best option would be a +6 belt of magnificence. On top of that, some magical armor (probably mithril full plate), a nice magical longspear, and something to give you flight capability. Beyond that, it's all small stuff - an eternal wand of Alter Self (CL 5) would be very nice as it would give you access to all of the Monstrous Humanoid (or Outsider at higher level) forms, up to 5 HD. Likewise, you can use all clerical wands and similar items, giving you a good bit of versatility in the utility spells you can cast. A couple of metamagic wands (for things like extend, or widen if you can find it), some prayer beads or similar and other utility items should fill out the inventory nicely.

Build at level 19:
Uruk, Guardian of Ulutiu
Favored Soul 3/Fighter (DC) 6/Divine Crusader 10
LN Feral Human (Illuskan, Native Outsider)
HD: 8 + 12d8 + 6d10 + 57 (152 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 40ft
AC: 16 (10, +6 Natural)
BAB/Grapple: +14/+18
Attack: +19 (+22 with a longspear, +21 with claws)
Full Attack: +19/+14/+9
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Improved Grab, Pounce, Rake, Rend, Dungeon Crasher +8d6, Knockback, Shock Trooper, Driving Attack, Spellcasting
Special Qualities: Outsider immunities, DR 10/magic, Resist 10 for Electricity and Acid, Aura of Law, Darkvision 150', Fast Healing 5
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +8, Will +12 (+4 vs Sleep & paralysis)
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 20
Skills: Spellcraft +21, Concentration +20, Jump +15, Know(religion) +2
Feats: Jotunbrud, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Weapon Focus (Longspear), Knockback, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Practiced Spellcaster, Extraordinary Spell Aim, Piercing Weapon Mastery, Driving Attack

Additions, notes, and improvements:
This character was conceived of first and foremost as a delivery platform for antimagic field. Being able to cast that spell on oneself (with or without the use of Extraordinary spell aim) while simultaneously remaining both a viable threat to the enemy and capable of buffing the other party members is perhaps the most extraordinary trick this class has to offer, in my opinion. Doing this by level 14 (one level after a determined battle-oriented wizard build could manage it) while also shoehorning in the entirety of a dungeoncrasher fighter build? It was too sweet of an opportunity to pass up. While I admit that the dungeoncrasher fighter build is both fairly standard and well-known as are all of its variations (piercing weapon specialist? check), dropping a powerful gish class into the middle of it granting access to 9th level spells has not, to my knowledge, been done before.

The reason for the Feral template is twofold. First, and most obviously, it gets you Pounce, which every charge-oriented build should have. But just as importantly, it gets you a really awesome fast-healing, which combos extremely well with all of your protection oriented spells (especially Shield Other) to make you a powerful party buffer in addition to being a serious damage engine and magic denial platform. And since all of the Feral templates abilities are EX, it combos extremely well with the Antimagic Field tactic.

Now, if LA Buyoff is available, then you're pretty much golden - 1 more level of Favoured Soul, which nets you 2nd level spells, +1 to all saves, as well as +16 BAB at level 20, for 4 iterative attacks on a pounce! You can put this level right after you get Fighter 6 so as not to dely getting antimagic field. Add on top of that the Draconic template for +2 to all of your favorite stats (str, con and cha) and an extra point of natural armor, which is a fair trade for an extra +1 LA if you can buy it off.
If you take a couple of flaws, there's any number of new tricks you can add - but most likely you should go with a couple of more dungeoncrasher/charging fighter feats like Powerful Charge.

Sources:
Favored Soul, Divine Crusader - Complete Divine
Leap Attack, Extraordinary Spell Aim - Complete Adventurer
Shock Trooper - Complete War
Practiced Spellcaster - Complete Arcane
Piercing Weapon Mastery, Driving Attack - Players Handbook II
Feral template - Savage Species
Ulutiu - Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Frostburn
Jotunbrud - Races of Faerun
Knockback - Races of Stone
Dungeon Crasher Fighter - Dungeonscape

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:36 PM

Do not meddle in the affairs of demons, as... I couldn't quite make out the rest through the screaming.
Nefarious Tate

Human – Chaotic Evil – Duskblade 5 / Pious Templar 2 / Divine Crusader of Cyric 9 / Nar Demonbinder 4

Image
http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/022/2/4/Evil_by_JasonEngle.jpg

Backstory
Galliard Tate grew up in one of those cities people recommend you never visit. A natural talent for magic combined with the killing instincts of a career warrior meant that he was near the top of the pecking order of the local ruffians. While others would loot and steal, Galliard was the lookout… or more often the distraction. He enjoyed hurting people; he was good at it; and nothing drew the city guard’s attention away from a heist better than a mugging or murder in the streets.

The crew he ran with became wanted men very quickly and either melted away or were hung; all except for him. Wanted for the murder of several city guards, he was a hard target to bring in. “The Nefarious Galliard Tate” drew the attention of bounty hunters far and wide, and he evaded or killed them for some months, until cornered and outmatched at last. But his hunters were slaughtered in turn by members of the cult of Cyric, Lord of Murder, who appreciated his talents and recruited him.

He was Nefarious Tate now, and he became a Templar of Murder. Under their tutelage he learned new kinds of magic tricks to kill and maim in melee. Almost as a side effect, he learned how to summon things from the lower planes. Small things, but he was fascinated by them. The way they breathed, the way they longed to hurt things, the way they obeyed his every command…

So when at last he came across ancient magical tomes (by killing their previous owner and the assassin he was working with who wanted a share of the books) that described the forgotten demon lore of Narfell, he was hooked. His health succumbed to an unearthly pallor, but he crackled with new unearthly energies he could use to split foes apart.

In a few short years, the cult of Cyric caught up with him for the betrayal of their assassin, but were unable to mete out punishment on him due to the demons that joined him in the resulting melee. The last sight the high priest of Cyric saw was Tate standing over him, accompanied by the massive frame of a Glabrezu demon.

“I AM Nefarious, and I belong to no one. You, on the other hand… now belong to my friend here.”

The Build

{table=head]STR|DEX|CON|INT|WIS|CHA|-|Level Bonuses
14|12|12|12|12|16|-|level bonuses into CHA[/table]
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st| Duskblade 1|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Concentration 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Knowledge (Planes) 4, Sense Motive 2, Spellcraft 2|Weapon Focus (Longsword), Iron Will|Armored Mage, Arcane Attunement

2nd| Duskblade 2|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Concentration 5, Knowledge (Religion) 5, Knowledge (Planes) 5, Sense Motive 2, Spellcraft 3|-|-

3rd| Duskblade 3|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Concentration 6, Knowledge (Religion) 5, Knowledge (Planes) 6, Sense Motive 2, Spellcraft 5|True Believer|Combat Casting
4th| Duskblade 4|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Concentration 7, Knowledge (Religion) 5, Knowledge (Planes) 7, Sense Motive 3, Spellcraft 6|-|Armored Mage (Medium)

5th| Duskblade 5|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Concentration 8, Knowledge (Religion) 5, Knowledge (Planes) 8, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 6|-|Quick Cast (1/day)

6th| Pious Templar 1|
+6|
+6|
+1|
+6|Concentration 9, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Knowledge (Planes) 8, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 6|Spell Focus (Conjuration)|Mettle
7th| Pious Templar 2|
+7|
+7|
+1|
+7|Concentration 10, Craft (Metalsmith) 1, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Planes) 8, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 6|-|Smite (1/day)

8th| Divine Crusader 1|
+7|
+9|
+1|
+9|Concentration 10, Craft (Metalsmith) 1, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Planes) 8, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 6|-|Aura

9th| Divine Crusader 2|
+8|
+10|
+1|
+10|Concentration 10, Craft (Metalsmith) 1, Intimidate 8, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Planes) 8, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 6|Practiced Spellcaster (Div Cru)|-
10th| Divine Crusader 3|
+9|
+10|
+2|
+10|Concentration 10, Craft (Metalsmith) 1, Intimidate 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Planes) 9, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 6|-|Resist Electric (5)

11th| Divine Crusader 4|
+10|
+11|
+2|
+11|Concentration 10, Craft (Metalsmith) 1, Intimidate 12, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Planes) 10, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 6|-|-

12th| Divine Crusader 5|
+10|
+11|
+2|
+11|Concentration 10, Craft (Metalsmith) 3, Intimidate 14, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Planes) 10, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 6|Tomb Tainted Soul|Weapon Specialization (Longsword)

13th| Divine Crusader 6|
+11|
+12|
+3|
+12|Concentration 10, Craft (Metalsmith) 5, Intimidate 16, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Planes) 10, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 6|-|Resist Acid (5)

14th| Nar Demonbinder 1|
+11|
+12|
+3|
+14|Concentration 10, Craft (Metalsmith) 5, Intimidate 17, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Planes) 11, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 8|-|Fiendish Familiar, Inimical Casting

15th|Nar Demonbinder 2|
+12|
+12|
+3|
+15|Concentration 10, Craft (Metalsmith) 5, Intimidate 18, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Planes) 12, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 10|Arcane Strike|Iron Sign

16th| Nar Demonbinder 3|
+12|
+13|
+4|
+15|Concentration 10, Craft (Metalsmith) 5, Intimidate 19, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Planes) 14, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 10|-|Master Summoner

17th| Nar Demonbinder 4|
+13|
+13|
+4|
+16|Concentration 10, Craft (Metalsmith) 5, Intimidate 20, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Planes) 16, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 10|-|Brazen Sign

18th| Divine Crusader 7|
+14|
+13|
+4|
+16|Concentration 11, Craft (Metalsmith) 5, Intimidate 21, Knowledge (Religion) 12, Knowledge (Planes) 16, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 10|Demon Mastery|Darkvision

19th| Divine Crusader 8|
+15|
+14|
+4|
+17|Concentration 12, Craft (Metalsmith) 5, Intimidate 22, Knowledge (Religion) 14, Knowledge (Planes) 16, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 10|-|-

20th| Divine Crusader 9|
+15|
+14|
+5|
+17|Concentration 13, Craft (Metalsmith) 5, Intimidate 23, Knowledge (Religion) 16, Knowledge (Planes) 16, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 10|-|Resist Acid (10), Resist Electric (10)[/table]

Spells Known
{table=head]CL|-|Dusk0|Dusk1|Dusk2|-|PT1|-|DC1|DC2|DC3|DC4|DC5|DC6|DC7|DC8|DC9|-|Nar4|Nar5|Nar6|-|Spells
1st|-|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|0(Acid Splash, Ray of Frost, Touch of Fatigue), 1st(Ray of Enfeeblement, Shocking Grasp)
2nd|-|4|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1st(Resist Energy)
3rd|-|5|4|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1st(Obscuring Mist)
4th|-|6|5|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1st(Kelgore’s Firebolt)
5th|-|6|5|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|2nd(Touch of Idiocy)
6th|-|6|5|2|-|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|Blackguard List (1st)
7th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|(usually Summon Monster I)
8th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|Inflict Light Wounds
9th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|Shatter
10th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|Contagion
11th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|Inflict Critical Wounds
12th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|Inflict Light Wounds, Mass
13th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|Harm
14th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|2|1|-|-|4th(Dimensional Anchor, Lesser Planar Binding, Magic Circle vs Good), 5th(Spell Resistance)
15th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|2|2|-|-|4th(Summon Monster IV), 5th(Plane Shift)
16th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|3|2|1|-|6th(Greater Dispelling)
17th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|-|3|3|2|-|5th(Dispel Good), 6th(Planar Binding)
18th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|-|3|3|2|-|Disintegrate
19th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|-|3|3|2|-|Earthquake
20th|-|6|5|2|-|1|-|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|-|3|3|2|-|Implosion [/table]

Level Highlights
Level 7 – Nefarious is a pretty standard Duskblade at this level. He can dump 5d6 of energy damage into a melee attack (or drain STR or INT instead) and has a Smite available to increase his attack roll. Mettle allows him to save for no effect on all Will partial and Fort partial spells, which are his strongest saves. He has become enamored with summoning evil things now, but it’s mostly an unhealthy fascination at this point. =)

Level 12 – Nefarious has a more damage options now, including channeling Contagion and Inflict Critical Wounds into melee attacks. (Both 4th and 5th level slots will be used for Inflict Critical.) And his Divine Crusader caster level is decent now with Practiced Spellcaster. He also has one (or two, depending on how you read the Pious Templar ability) more Smites per day to improve his to-hit roll for channeled spells. But the big improvement is picking up Tomb Tainted Soul, as he can now heal himself with many of the spells on his Divine Crusader list… and it’s about to get better.

Level 15 – The build comes together at this level. He has Harm available to channel into melee attacks and to heal himself with, and his levels of Nar Demonbinder provide two major things… out of combat demon summoning, and in combat melee buffs. Sure, Plane Shift, Spell Resistance, and Summon Monster IV are decent in their own right and Dimensional Anchor can be channeled into a melee attack, the Nar Demonbinder spell slots are really there to provide hit and damage bonuses with Arcane Strike. And delivering a Harm or Touch of Idiocy through his Quasit familiar isn’t a poor option either. Plus the Divine Crusader caster levels add to his Nar Demonbinder caster level.

Level 18 – Sweet Spot – Nefarious has real power at this level. He’s using 6th and 7th level slots for Harm now (and shortly 8th and 9th as well) plus having both Spell Resistance and Greater Dispel with a real caster level (15th), and he is well placed to use Planar Binding on a regular basis. Armed with a CHA item and a Circlet of Persuasion (or similar item with larger bonus) and using his Brazen Sign ability, he has little trouble binding a Glabrezu to aid him in combat and provide the occasional Wish or summoning a Retriever to use as a combat companion or mount.

Demonic Synergy
Why Nar Demonbinder? – It’s the concept. Murderous individual joins a cult, and without being a real spellcaster he learns to summon and command demons, becoming horrifyingly good at it. It’s hard to do that in 3.5 D&D, and Divine Crusader is one of the few ways to accomplish it. It’s also deliciously synergistic, as both classes rely on Charisma and both can saddle up their spell list to the Duskblade base class that is powering it all.

The only downside is fitting it all in. Nar Demonbinder really needs that 4th level Brazen Sign ability to keep the powerful outsiders in thrall, and that meant taking the hit for only doing 9 levels of Divine Crusader. The capstone ability (Outsider type and DR 10/magic) is quite minor compared to the missing spell slots that could be filled with more Harm.

Duskblade and Destruction Domain – The Divine Crusader’s domain ability is augmented in 3 ways with this build. First, Pious Templar and Destruction domain stack, adding 1 or 2 uses of Smite per day, granting an untyped bonus to hit when needed (and a bit of damage too). Second, the domain spells can be channeled into melee attacks by the Duskblade’s Arcane Channeling ability, which is useful when it’s Contagion or Inflict Critical, and damn devastating when it’s Harm. Thirdly, the spell list does double duty as a source of healing once Nefarious picks up Tomb Tainted Soul.

Demon Binding and Arcane Strike – This is deceptively higher Teir than it might appear. Out of combat, the demon summoning can accomplish a great number of things (including shortening Nefarious’ expected lifespan!) and gain him access to combat companions. In combat, the spell slots can be converted to attack and damage bonuses by Arcane Strike. Only have one Harm left… use both Smite and Arcane Strike for a +10 to hit. At 18th level that’s a bonus +6d4+159 damage, Will save for +6d4+84. =)

Tomb Tainted Soul – More synergy with the Divine Crusader domain. This feat means he’s healed by the spells on his list, so he can cause massive damage or recover from said same. And a Quick Cast Harm makes all the difference between death and victory when Nefarious is getting pounded on! Sure, he takes damage from Cure spells now, but if an enemy does figure that out, his Mettle ability means he can save for zero damage using his best saving throw!

Source Books
{table=head]Sourcebook|Class/Race|Feats
Complete Divine|Divine Crusader, Pious Templar|Practiced Spellcaster, True Believer
Complete Warrior|-|Arcane Strike
Fiendish Codex I|-|Demon Mastery
Libris Mortis|-|Tomb Tainted Soul
Player’s Handbook|-| Iron Will, Spell Focus, Weapon Focus
Player’s Handbook 2|Duskblade|-
Unapproachable East|Nar Demonbinder|-[/table]

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:38 PM

No wit is required here. Just slack-jawed amazement at someone bringing a Truenamer to the table.

Sortes
TN Human Truenamer 10/Divine Crusader 10
"Knowledge pierces all."

http://phenomenologyftw.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/knowledge_jeezny.jpg

That Which Has Come Before:
As a lad, I was taught to respect that which has come before, as it points to that which has been destined. The Lady of Our Fates has already spun her web, my mum would say, and we're but stuck in its fibers. However, I began to wonder more and more about these fibers--these plans that had been ordained for us. Unlike the masses who cease their wondering eventually, or the philosophers who never move beyond it, I began to seek my own answers. It is only now that I realize, but I was seeking the answers I was destined to know.

Still a boy, I beseeched the monks at the temple of Istus to give me any tasks they had available. I fashioned my own gray robes, longing one day to wear the ornately embroided ones of the high priest, bearing the most subtle golden threads stitched into a web. Some of the devout turned me away, but others threw odd jobs my way. Desperate to impress, I chronicled my every waking moment in detailed reports and showed them to the monks. Once again, some laughed, but others smiled knowingly. They took me to the town banquet hall in the dead of night one wintery eve and introduced me to the Paragnostic Assembly. A cabal of various faiths, all dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge, I found a place where I truly belonged.

Over the years, I have been sent on many missions for the Assembly. I've compiled so many resources that I was actually able to start my own wing of the library, if you ever have the desire and decades to spare reading my detailed retellings of our journeys. Oh, but I can be a bit long-winded...Anyway, as I journeyed, I learned more. As I learned, I longed for more. And as I longed, the Lady revealed more of the web's length to me. Even more so, I was able to peer behind the curtain, to see the very words from which she wove these threads before time began. I have learned to speak some of them, to tangle or untangle the threads as I see fit--or should I say, as the Lady of Our Fates means for me to see.

Eventually, I learned a name by which I could call upon the most holy Istus, and she answered my call. She granted me the ability to draw from her very divinity the magic I require to continue my unending education. Some think it's a toilsome life, always sitting over dusty tomes in libraries, forever sounding out the finest intricacies of a polysyllabic, archaic word. But not me, for I know those very words are tied to who we are to become...or not to become.

It is not my decision, friend. Your string ends here. How do I know this? Because I know your name--a name so crucial to the fabric of your life that you have not even been entrusted with it yourself. As I speak it, you may feel your heart slowly stopping, but do not fret--you can not resist your death. It is simply time for you to drop from the web.

That Which Is:
{table=head]
Level|
Class|
Base Attack Bonus|
Fort Save|
Ref Save|
Will Save|
Skills|
Feats|
Class Features

1|
Truenamer 1|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|
Concentration 4, Know (arcana) 4, Know (dungeoneering) 4, Know (local) 4, Know (nature) 4, Know (planes) 4, Know (religion) 4, Truespeak 4, Use Magic Device 4|
Skill Focus (Truespeak), Known Personal Truename, Mortalbane|
Known Personal Truename

2|
Truenamer 2|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|
Concentration 4, Know (arcana) 5, Know (dungeoneering) 4, Know (local) 5, Know (nature) 5, Know (planes) 5, Know (religion) 5, Truespeak 5, Use Magic Device 5, Collector of Stories||
Knowledge Focus (local)

3|
Truenamer 3|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|
Concentration 4, Know (arcana) 6, Know (dungeoneering) 6, Know (local) 6, Know (nature) 6, Know (planes) 6, Know (religion) 6, Truespeak 6, Use Magic Device 6, Collector of Stories|
Knowledge Devotion|

4|
Truenamer 4|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|
Concentration 5, Know (arcana) 7, Know (dungeoneering) 7, Know (local) 7, Know (nature) 7, Know (planes) 7, Know (religion) 7, Truespeak 7, Use Magic Device 7, Collector of Stories||

5|
Truenamer 5|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|
Concentration 6, Know (arcana) 8, Know (dungeoneering) 8, Know (local) 8, Know (nature) 8, Know (planes) 8, Know (religion) 8, Truespeak 8, Use Magic Device 8, Collector of Stories||

6|
Truenamer 6|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|
Concentration 7, Know (arcana) 9, Know (dungeoneering) 9, Know (local) 9, Know (nature) 9, Know (planes) 9, Know (religion) 9, Truespeak 9, Use Magic Device 9, Collector of Stories|
Weapon Focus (dagger), Truename Research|
Truename Research

7|
Truenamer 7|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|
Concentration 8, Know (arcana) 10, Know (dungeoneering) 10, Know (local) 10, Know (nature) 10, Know (planes) 10, Know (religion) 10, Truespeak 10, Use Magic Device 10, Collector of Stories||
Knowledge Focus (religion)

8|
Truenamer 8|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+6|
Concentration 10, Know (arcana) 11, Know (dungeoneering) 11, Know (local) 11, Know (nature) 11, Know (planes) 11, Know (religion) 11, Truespeak 11, Use Magic Device 11, Collector of Stories|
Recitation of the Sanguine State|
Bonus recitation feat

9|
Truenamer 9|
+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+6|
Concentration 12, Know (arcana) 12, Know (dungeoneering) 12, Know (local) 12, Know (nature) 12, Know (planes) 12, Know (religion) 12, Truespeak 12, Use Magic Device 12, Collector of Stories|
Quicken Utterance|
See the named 1/day

10|
Truenamer 10|
+7/+2|
+3|
+3|
+7|
Concentration 13, Know (arcana) 13, Know (dungeoneering) 13, Know (history) 1, Know (local) 13, Know (nature) 13, Know (planes) 13, Know (religion) 13, Truespeak 13, Use Magic Device 13, Collector of Stories||
Knowledge Focus (nature)

11|
Divine Crusader 1|
+7/+2|
+5|
+3|
+9|
Concentration 13, Know (arcana) 14, Know (dungeoneering) 14, Know (history) 1, Know (local) 14, Know (nature) 14, Know (planes) 14, Know (religion) 14, Truespeak 14, Use Magic Device 13, Collector of Stories||
Aura

12|
Divine Crusader 2|
+8/+3|
+6|
+3|
+10|
Concentration 13, Know (arcana) 15, Know (dungeoneering) 15, Know (history) 1, Know (local) 15, Know (nature) 15, Know (planes) 15, Know (religion) 15, Truespeak 15, Use Magic Device 13.5, Collector of Stories|
Truespeak Training||

13|
Divine Crusader 3|
+9/+4|
+6|
+4|
+10|
Concentration 13, Know (arcana) 16, Know (dungeoneering) 16, Know (history) 1, Know (local) 16, Know (nature) 16, Know (planes) 16, Know (religion) 16, Truespeak 16, Use Magic Device 14, Collector of Stories||
Resistance to Electricity 5

14|
Divine Crusader 4|
+10/+5|
+7|
+4|
+11|
Concentration 13, Know (arcana) 17, Know (dungeoneering) 17, Know (history) 1, Know (local) 17, Know (nature) 17, Know (planes) 17, Know (religion) 17, Spellcraft 1, Truespeak 17, Use Magic Device 14, Collector of Stories||

15|
Divine Crusader 5|
+10/+5|
+7|
+4|
+11|
Concentration 13, Know (arcana) 18, Know (dungeoneering) 18, Know (history) 1, Know (local) 18, Know (nature) 18, Know (planes) 18, Know (religion) 18, Spellcraft 2, Truespeak 18, Use Magic Device 14, Collector of Stories|
Extend Utterance, Weapon Specialization|
Weapon Specialization

16|
Divine Crusader 6|
+11/+6/+1|
+8|
+5|
+12|
Concentration 14, Know (arcana) 19, Know (dungeoneering) 19, Know (history) 1, Know (local) 19, Know (nature) 19, Know (planes) 19, Know (religion) 19, Spellcraft 3, Truespeak 19, Use Magic Device 14, Collector of Stories||

17|
Divine Crusader 7|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+5|
+12|
Concentration 15, Know (arcana) 20, Know (dungeoneering) 20, Know (history) 1, Know (local) 20, Know (nature) 20, Know (planes) 20, Know (religion) 20, Spellcraft 4, Truespeak 20, Use Magic Device 14, Collector of Stories||
Resistance to Acid 5

18|
Divine Crusader 8|
+13/+8/+3|
+9|
+5|
+13|
Concentration 16, Know (arcana) 21, Know (dungeoneering) 21, Know (history) 1, Know (local) 21, Know (nature) 21, Know (planes) 21, Know (religion) 21, Spellcraft 4, Truespeak 21, Use Magic Device 14.5, Collector of Stories|
Practiced Spellcaster|
Darkvision

19|
Divine Crusader 9|
+13/+8/+3|
+9|
+6|
+13|
Concentration 17, Know (arcana) 22, Know (dungeoneering) 22, Know (history) 1, Know (local) 22, Know (nature) 22, Know (planes) 22, Know (religion) 22, Spellcraft 4, Truespeak 22, Use Magic Device 15, Collector of Stories||
Resistance to Acid & Electricity 10

20|
Divine Crusader 10|
+14/+9/+4|
+10|
+6|
+14|
Concentration 17, Know (arcana) 23, Know (dungeoneering) 23, Know (history) 1, Know (local) 23, Know (nature) 23, Know (planes) 23, Know (religion) 23, Spellcraft 4, Truespeak 23, Use Magic Device 16, Collector of Stories||
Perfect Self[/table]

{table=head]Attribute|Points|Base|Age|Level|Total|Mod
STR|0|8|-1|0|7|-2
DEX|3|11|-1|0|10|+0
CON|3|11|-1|0|10|+0
INT|13|17|+1|4|22|+6
WIS|0|8|+1|0|9|-1
CHA|13|17|+1|1|19|+4[/table]

{table=head]Level|Utterances Known
1|Minor Word of Nurturing
2|Universal Aptitude
3|Lesser Word of Nurturing
4|Perceive the Unseen; Keen Weapon
5|Hidden Truth
6|Seek the Sky
7|Vision Sharpened; Analyze Item
8|Moderate Word of Nurturing; Fog from the Void
9|Greater Speed of the Zephyr
10|Spell Rebirth[/table]

That Which Shall Come to Pass in Battle:

Levels 1-5: Whenever possible, you'll be hitting enemies with a reversed word of nurturing. Against appropriate heavy targets, feel free to tack Mortalbane onto it (since utterances are SLAs), and you'll be dealing a respectable amount of damage for your level. Granted, as Knowledge Devotion comes online, you have a way to boost your to-hit and damage on mundane melee or ranged dagger attacks, so you don't have to waste your utterances on every single mook you need to dispatch. Collector of Stories ensures that your Knowledge Devotion bonus will be sufficiently high, and you can couple it with Universal Aptitude or Hidden Knowledge when you really need to pump the check. You can select any Knowledge for your Knowledge Focus; it has been my experience that my DM throws more humanoids at us during lower levels of play. Keen Edge can double your dagger's crit range to multiply the Knowledge Devotion damage more frequently, as well. On the defensive side, Perceive the Unseen can aid in either piercing or creating concealment. Since you're relatively squishy, imposing miss chances against you is a good thing. Total Truespeak modifier @ Level 5: +20 before items (+25 with Universal Aptitude, +32 including items*)
Levels 6-10: Weapon Focus helps us qualify for the Secret Ingredient and boosts our dagger attacks for the times when we're not uttering, but the real star of these levels is Quicken Utterance. Affiliation with the Paragnostic Assembly and a Silvertongue Amulet should ensure that our Truespeak checks are high enough to Quicken--Universal Aptitude helps if we're still not making those checks, though. Two more Knowledge Focuses can be added to taste, though I've found Religion and Nature to be most useful in my typical campaigns. You can spread them out differently if you'd like, or stack the bonuses on one type if they're everywhere in your campaign. Seek the Sky at level 6 gives us flight (and the delightful ability to take it away) in line with the time most casters receive it. Vision Sharpened allows us to pierce invisibility or create it for ourselves--the 50% miss chance is higher than that of Perceive the Unseen, and we can stagger the two to avoid that pesky Law of Resistance a little bit. Fog from the Void allows us a decent amount of battlefield control, while Greater Speed of the Zephyr provides us some buffing/debuffing capability beyond that which we already had. The extra attack from the Haste-like effect means more chances to add on bonus damage, while Analyze Item lets us identify loot without the material cost. The last utterance we snag is Spell Rebirth, and it's so good it gets its own blurb below. Suffice it to say that this utterance is the reason we stayed in Truenamer until 10 without picking up a full-BAB base class. Total Truespeak modifier @ Level 10: +25 before items (+30 with Universal Aptitude, +42 including items*)
Levels 11-15: Divine casting gets added to the mix, and your primary domain helps you fulfill your schtick of being the party know-it-all. Granted, it also helps you learn the personal truenames of other creatures as well. You snag Truename Training because the Paragnostic Assembly maddeningly won't let you have it as a class skill, but then you pick up Extend Utterance to make sure you worry about the Law of Resistance less frequently. Granted, the Law of Sequence is still in play, but I've found that to be less restrictive. While waiting for an utterance to end, you can simply attack with your dagger or cast a few spells. Weapon Specialization comes on board to ensure even more bonus damage on your dagger attacks. Total Truespeak modifier @ Level 15: +35 before items (+40 with Universal Aptitude, +62 including items*)
Levels 16-20: Your casting continues to improve, bolstered by an added point in CHA to ensure you can cast your delightful 9th-level spells. Perfect Self, in conjunction with your ranks in Use Magic Device, allow some delightful shenanigans as always (see below), and Practiced Spellcaster bumps up your Divine Crusader CL in order to get more duration off your spells (especially Choose Destiny...again, see below) as well as making your spells harder to dispel. Of course, your CL still isn't as high as it could be, even with the appropriate gear. If the bad guys are still dispelling your spells, just stick your tongue out and utter Spell Rebirth (once again, you guessed it...see below). Total Truespeak modifier @ Level 20: +40 before items (+45 with Universal Aptitude, +77 including items*)

*including items means the following:
Level 5: Lesser Amulet of the Silver Tongue, Masterwork Tool
Level 10: Greater Amulet of the Silver Tongue, Masterwork Tool
Level 15: Greater Amulet of the Silver Tongue, +10 Competence Item, Masterwork Tool
Level 20: Wand of Polymorph (Logokron Devil), Greater Amulet of the Silver Tongue, +10 Competence Item, Masterwork Tool

That Which Shall Align in Harmony:

Master of My Domain(s): Someone jokingly pointed out on another forum that the best thing about Truenamers is that they get Use Magic Device as a class skill. However, that's nothing to sneeze at. Open up your copy of Complete Champion and turn to page 128. Starting in the bottom left, you'll find Substitute Domain, a delightful second-level cleric spell. Now, this spell is actually pretty lackluster for clerics; you switch out one domain of your deity for another. However, when it's used by someone with levels in Divine Crusader, it gives you the ability to rewrite your entire spell list on the fly. Even better, it lasts for 1 day/CL, so you can keep a substituted domain for a few days if it's being good to you--I'm looking at you, Destiny Domain. The 10-minute casting time is obviated by a scroll (since spell completion items only take a standard action to activate via UMD). While you still have to prepare your spells as normal, you can use this scroll right before you prepare spells for the day. Use one of your last Knowledge spells (like Divination) with your +1 CL at night to determine which domain Istus thinks you should prepare tomorrow, then do so in the morning. Even in the middle of a day, if you just NEED one of Istus' granted domain powers, you can use the scroll to snag it. Of course, it's a little hazy whether you keep your already-prepared spells or lose them until your next daily meditation, but it's a great panic button. The domains available to you are Law, Luck (reroll!), Mind, Oracle, Chaos, and Destiny (reroll for a friend!). The Law and Chaos domains open up Summon Monster IX for either Lawful or Chaotic creatures, allowing you to tap a deep reserve of creatures with SLAs or independent spellcasting, thus expanding your spell list even further. Nine spells are plenty when you can swap them out daily between 7 lists of nine, some of which grant further spellcasting access within themselves. :smallbiggrin:
Hopelessly Devoted to You: Of course, not every domain power and spell list is a winner. Luckily, there are some alternative options. I'd keep the Luck domain power over Luck Devotion any day, but Law Devotion? Yeah, that's right up my alley--a scaling bonus to either AC or attacks is always nice, especially when it's a sacred bonus that stacks with the insight bonus from Knowledge Devotion. If you're a little more dangerous, Istus also offers Chaos, for the slightly dicier Chaos Devotion. Either way, they're only 1/day. However, using our above trick, you can swap to the Domain via Substitute Domain, swap out the domain power and spells for the devotion feat (as pg 53 of Complete Champion specifically indicates that clerics or any other character who gains access to a domain can snag the devotion feats in place of the domain). Since Substitute Domain is a (D) spell, you can simply dismiss it once the duration of your devotion feat wears off, sending you back to a Knowledge Domain full of spells. Devotion feats, like many good things, can be found in Complete Champion.
Organization is Key: Truenamers tend to stick together. They take the same feats to boost their checks, they buy the same items to boost their checks, and they join the same organizations to boost their checks. The Paragnostic Assembly (found where else but Complete Champion) rewards people obsessed with knowledge with various goodies. Depending on your affiliation score, you can snag either a +5 or +10 unnamed bonus to...Truespeak! This is honestly the only mention of Truespeak I was able to find in a WotC source besides Tome of Magic...and it stacks with the bonuses we already have! This is awesome, so we'll make sure to pay our dues on time. Luckily, your affiliation score will be through the roof, as follows:
{table=head]Criterion|Affiliation Score modifier
Character level|1/2 level
Knowledge (any) 5-9 ranks|+6 from levels 2-6
Knowledge (any) 10+ ranks|+12 from levels 7+ (replaces the above, I believe)
Has levels in a class that has 3+ Know skills in-class|+1
Can cast 3rd-level or higher divination spells|+3[/table]
By a conservative count, you could reach Paragnostic Scholar (up to +5 Truespeak) at level 2, Sage of Worldly Matters (+2 Diplomacy in some circumstances) and Seeker of Unseen Words (add Spellcraft as a class skill for all classes) by level 7, Master of the Unturned Page (up to +10 Truespeak) from level 14, and Exalted Philosopher of Paragnostic Truths is well within reach based on multiple-use benefits. Just be sure to write detailed reports and go on risky missions for the sake of the Assembly. Some things might even be allowed by a kind DM; while you don't have Skill Focus (Knowledge), some DMs may let Skill Focus (truespeak) count. Also, while you don't worship Boccob or Wee Jas, "other knowledge deities" like Istus are listed under Sage of Worldly Matters, so you may be able to swing it for another +1 to your affiliation score. No matter how you slice it, being a part of the Assembly is nothing but solid gold for Sortes.
You devil, You: So, Perfect Self makes you an outsider, which is all sorts of cool. Your ranks in Use Magic Device allow you to change into all sorts of silly things, most of them with Alter Self alone. However, for the big guns you want to use Polymorph, as it allows you to change into creatures of your own type (now outsider) of up to 15 HD. While it's a bit expensive, snagging a CL 15 wand or some scrolls of Polymorph will allow you to change shape into a Logokron devil, which provides a +10 racial bonus to Truespeak checks. If you want to go a little tamer, the Word Archon at 10 HD can provide you a +5 racial bonus. Arguably, you could polymorph into an 11 HD Garbler to eliminate the need for any Truespeak checks, but some believe that only applies to the Garbler's innate utterances. Still, a garbler gets free action utterances every round. On the downside: the effects are random, the utterance used is random, and you're basically a pile of mouths. I'd rather go with the Logokron.
Undo the Undoing: So, your caster level. It's...abysmal, really. Sure, toss in Practiced Spellcaster and it's a step. Wear a necklace of prayer beads with a bead of karma for +4 CL on your divine spells. Toss in an ioun stone for another +1...or just play a Truenamer and laugh at people who dispel your spells. Spell Rebirth allows you to undispel any effect dispelled within the last round with naught but a Truespeak check. An effect. For those playing along at home, it doesn't even need to be a spell. Just a Truespeak check within a round, and it's undispelled. Congratulations, you just created a double negative.

Of course, the reversed version is just as sweet: Spell Rebirth simply dispels the spell with the highest CL on the target. No need to roll a dispel check or anything, just another Truespeak check. Granted, the editors wised up and put "spell" instead of "effect," but they still left the little loophole of ANY spell effecting the target. Wave goodbye to that area of effect.
Say my Name, Say my Name: Sortes is REALLY good at truename research. He's got the skills, he's got the Truename Research feat, and he's got the magical divinations that can really pump the knowledge checks (at which he happens to excel). The only problem is that truename research is basically useless for a truenamer. It makes your Truespeak check go up by 2, and in turn raises save DC and CL to overcome spell resistance by 2. That's fantastic, aside from the fact that we've selected utterances that don't allow saves. To add salt to the wound, the truenamer can just raise their Truespeak DC by 5 to automatically overcome spell resistance, rather than raising it by 2 to have a slightly better chance.

So why bother with it? Truename spells, baby! While they're usually not great, if you've got an astronomical truespeak check and knowledge of your target's personal truename, you can use them to great advantage via UMD. Augment Truefriend can buff all of your melee friend's physical attributes at once. Bane of the Archrival is a great buff to toss up as you're going into a boss fight to make the enemy's life difficult (keeps them at least 20 feet away, grants a +4 deflection bonus to AC and saves, and blocks mind control). Scramble True Position doesn't require a personal truename, but I had to include it because it's a great 1st-level spell that can have hilarious results (and reminds me of a favorite 4E power that has let me move multiple enemies over cliffs and off bridges on more than one occasion). Spurn the Supernatural can be squeezed into a bard wand (as it's level 4 for them), and can mess up the day of any enemy whose personal truename you know that relies on supernatural abilities. It usually only suppresses 1 ability, but you can suppress more if your Truespeak check is high enough. Luckily for you, high truespeak checks are the name of the game. True Prayer of the Faithful can give your team a +1 luck bonus to life, essentially. All in all, they're a bunch of useful spells...IF you can make the Truespeak checks. Luckily, that's what Sortes does best.

That Which Has Been Destined:

Spellcasting & Domains: Usually a Divine Crusader has access to only nine spells for his or her entire life. When combined with Substitute Domain, however, you get as many domains as your deity grants access to. You could always pick a "God of Everything" to net yourself one metric crapload of domains, but I wanted to make sure Sortes had two domains set in stone: Knowledge & Destiny. Istus provided both, along with a handful of other good ones, so I've decided to dedicate a bit of time to each:

Domain Powers and Devotion feats:

Chaos: The granted power makes the spells slightly more potent while using them, but the Devotion feat can grant a varying bonus in combat when you've already used Law Devotion for the day.
Destiny: Granting a willing creature a reroll once per day is awesome, especially when a party member flubs an otherwise easy roll. Being able to hand out mulligans to your party is sure to make some friends. Between this and the spells below, Destiny is your go-to Substitute Domain choice.
Knowledge: We snag all knowledge skills as class skills, and get a +1 CL boost to a whole school, which is pretty solid even if that school is divination. I was tempted to swap this for Knowledge Devotion, but realized I would need to pick up the Knowledge skills in-class another way, as well as giving up access to the spells. Instead, sticking with it pays off in spades; the granted power is only helpful when levelling up or casting divinations (usually done in downtime). When we Substitute Domain, we don't lose the utility of our Knowledge Skills--Curmudgeon confirmed in the Simple RAW thread that you don't lose skill ranks you've already invested. Just be sure to dismiss Substitute Domain right before you level in order to keep knowledge skills in-class as you proceed.
Law: Much like the Chaos domain, the granted power is a bit lackluster. The Devotion feat, however, can grant us some decent combat OOMPH with a scaling :smallbiggrin: sacred :smallbiggrin: bonus to attacks or AC that WE get to pick. Again, though it's only 1/day, it's one of my favorites.
Luck: If you'd rather save your own butt than the party's, the Luck domain power is for you! Reroll one flub per day. If you ever think about taking the Devotion feat instead, just reread the domain power and remind yourself how much better it is.
Mind: You're not the party face, so you don't really care about a bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive. However, since you get a small situational Diplomacy bonus from affiliation with the Paragnostic Assembly, you could pop on this domain as well if you wanted to plead your case before an appropriate authority.
Oracle: An even bigger bump to CL than the Knowledge Domain, this gives you extra oomph with divinations. If your DM rules that you can keep spells you've already prepared when you Substitute Domains, you can prepare Knowledge Domain spells and then switch to Oracle domain for a +2 CL instead of the regular +1.
Domain Spells:

Chaos: While most of the spells are only useful against lawful or nonchaotic creatures, Shatter lets you play the party rogue. Animate objects can be fun, and Summon Monster IX opens up a whole world of SLAs and independent spellcasting when you just need a particular spell.
Destiny: Omen of Peril and Augury aren't really my favorites, but I think the rest of this list is solid gold. Delay Death is great as always, while the Curses give you a decent non-Truenaming debuff. Stalwart Pact can buff you up a bit, while Warp Destiny can turn the tide when need be. Moment of Prescience is good as always, but Choose Destiny is a fitting capstone here. "Reroll life" is a great spell, especially when Practiced Spellcaster gets you more bang for your buck. My favorite part is that this lets you reroll your Knowledge checks for Knowledge Devotion as well as your Truespeak checks. Sure, sure, you can reroll little things like attacks and saves, but this keeps a flubbed Truespeak check from ruining a round (which can happen all to easily for your typical truenamer). Even if a mighty caster can dispel your precious baby, you can just Spell Rebirth it back up again and rain down hurt on them.
Knowledge: Your business is knowing things, and this domain lets you do it best. Divination and Legend Lore provide truename research bonuses, Detect Secret Doors guides you to the fattest lewt, Detect Thoughts allows you to play a crucial role in social interactions and interrogations, Clairaudience/voyance lets you scout without scouting, Divination and Legend Lore can help you with anything from puzzles to plot points, True Seeing can keep your party alive, Find the Path and Discern Location let you play ranger, and Foresight gives you a prescient edge. The domain power helps Sortes, but the spells make him the best in his field.
Law: Much like Chaos, some of these spells are situational. However, Hold Monster and Summon Monster IX both provide decent always-available power to your arsenal.
Luck: Entropic Shield is great to intersperse with Perceive the Unseen to make sure you have some degree of concealment as often as possible, Aid is always a great little boost, Protection from Energy can supplement the resistances you already have by providing resistance to other elements, Freedom of Movement is a get out of jail free card, Break Enchantment can save your party from nasty effects, Mislead is a defensive double-whammy, Spell Turning can give nasty casters a taste of their own medicine, Moment of Prescience is good as always, and Miracle is freaking Miracle! A great domain for both the spells and power, this is my backup Substitute Domain choice after Destiny.
Mind: These spells can make you the party face in a snap, between reading thoughts, detecting lies, telepathy with your party, and understanding all languages. At higher levels, it gets even better between the all-day protection of Mind Blank and the lethal power of Weird.
Oracle: This sibling of the Knowledge domain helps you REALLY know everything. It allows you to snag some spells that Knowledge didn't provide like Identify, Scrying, Commune, and Greater Scrying, but a lot of these spells are already on the Knowledge list. Still, it fills in some nice gaps while keeping the more powerful of the Knowledge domain's spells.

Aura of Neutrality: This is fantastic! Overzealous paladins and horrible fiends alike never know quite what to make of you. While an aura is usually a giant "AIM AT ME" beacon for those of opposite alignment, an aura of neutrality keeps possible enemies on both sides of the fence guessing. Resistances: These can protect you from a bit of damage. Beyond that, you can always go with Luck Domain to protect yourself from various energies as well, allowing this class feature to act as a lesser version against electricity and acid.
Weapon Specialization: in conjunction with Knowledge Devotion and Weapon Focus, you're hitting harder and more often than a dedicated Truenamer. With the haste ability of Greater Speed of the Zephyr and the Keen Weapon utterance, you've got an extra attack per round and a greater chance to crit...two things that make static bonus damage very happy.
Darkvision: If Psionics/Magic Transparency is in effect, you can grab some psionic items to manifest Control Light, thus putting the screws to anyone without darkvision. Alternatively, you can always carry around a Dark Lantern (Tome of Magic), though the item might create magical darkness which trumps darkvision. Ask your DM.
Perfect Self: You're an outsider. Need I say more? As mentioned above, everyone's first choice will be to start Alter Self-ing until the cows come home. Of course, you can also use polymorph to snag some larger outsider shenanigans as well. While magic weapons are everywhere by the level you get this, you do pick up DR 10/magic as well, which can keep your butt protected against a volley of mook arrows and the like.

That Which Is to be Sought:

Amulet of the Silver Tongue (lesser): 2,500 for a +5 enhancement bonus on Truespeak. Necessary. Available with 3rd-level WBL, but only realistic at 4th and above.
Amulet of the Silver Tongue (greater): 10,000 for a +10 enhancement bonus on Truespeak. Available at level 6, but realistic at levels 8 and above. Replaces the lesser version above, so you may be able to trade up. Necessary, and great because it stacks with...
Competence Item of Truespeak +10: 10,000 for a technically custom item. Plead with your DM for the Truenamer's equivalent of a ring of Jumping. If they're nice, see if you can get a higher bonus. Also available by level 8, but you'll probably have better luck snagging the Silvertongue amulet first. Included on the table above at level 15.
Truespeak Masterwork Tool: A tome of cribsheets or the like, we'll snag whatever we can get for 50 gp.
Wand or scrolls of polymorph: Useful for various outsider shenanigans, as well as transforming into a Logokron Devil for +10 racial bonus on Truespeak.
Wands and scrolls of Substitute Domain: as already listed above.
Wands or scrolls of Truespeak spells: as already listed above.
Dark Lantern: Only if your darkvision can pierce it. Otherwise, go with psionic items of Control Light.
Stat-boosting items of INT and CHA: Standard Stat boosters help to pull up your checks and spell save DCs.

That Which May Not Fly:

LA Buyoff: If this powerful variant is allowed, you may want to play as a Phrenic creature. Not only does this template provide bonuses to INT and CHA (your two main stats, allowing you to supercharge them or redistribute some points to other stats like DEX and CON), but it also provides you some always-augmented psi-like abilities, including some straight blasting power that this build admittedly lacks. The power of a Truenamer is not psionic novaing, but their ability to bypass many of a foe's defenses. This option adds a whole new side to Sortes, for those times that you just want to roll a bunch of dice.
Flaws: Inattentive and Noncombatant are always good flaws, especially since you can still throw daggers at your foes and gain the bonus of both Knowledge Devotion and Weapon Specialization. In exchange, you could take Truespeak Training at level 1 to open up the later feat slot, along with a feat of your choosing (I'd go with Combat Expertise, just for a little additional defense). Alternatively, if your DM doesn't allow our Substitute Domain shenanigans, you could even take Able Learner (which just seems a whole lot more boring) to keep all Knowledge skills in-class. If you do this, you're free to choose whichever domain you like for Divine Crusader, and I'd choose Destiny. If your DM DOES allow it, however, you can use one of your free feat slots later to take Heretic of the Faith (found in Power of Faerun), which allows you to pick a domain not normally available to your deity. So if the list above wasn't good enough, and you just need to get a different one, you can scrap any one domain your deity offers and choose a new one. As a side note, you can change the favored weapon as well. As written, of course, the feat requires heavy DM adjudication, so we're keeping it to this section.
Divine Crusader doesn't work that way!: Now, some naysayers (or more conservative ayesayers may tell you that Substitute Domain is of no use to a Divine Crusader, since "She may only prepare and cast spells from her chosen domain" (Complete Divine, page 34). However, Subsitute Domain allows you to "swap one of your current domains for another that your deity offers" (Complete Champion, page 128). Simple as that: you no longer have this one, but now you have that one. You still have the same alignment and worship the same deity, so I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

That Which Has Been Written:

Tome of Magic
Complete Divine
Races of Destiny
Complete Champion
Book of Vile Darkness
Complete Arcane
Unearthed Arcana (Adaptation only)
Expanded Psionics Handbook (Adaptation only)
Power of Faerun (Adaptation only)

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 08:39 PM

That's all of them, folks. The judging period begins now!

DeAnno

2011-08-17, 08:41 PM

Of the three ideas I had, I picked one, and the other two were both used by different people! The 11 domains for 11 entries was pretty fortuitous indeed.

BillyBobJoe

2011-08-17, 08:41 PM

0.0

Wait what... Truenamer... what is this I don't even?

flabort

2011-08-17, 09:12 PM

I've heard true naming is poorly built and otherwise bad. I don't know why.

But this seems ok, regardless. No-ones allowed to say (yet), but I wonder who submitted that one. :smallconfused:

kestrel404

2011-08-17, 09:44 PM

Wow. I wish I was judging this one. There's a LOT of good stuff here.

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 10:38 PM

Don't forget to vote for honorable mention. Only votes for entries placed 4th or lower count, however.

I'll cast the first vote, for Vald Lokkur, the Wolf of Winter.

BillyBobJoe

2011-08-17, 10:42 PM

I vote for Sortes.

Vandicus

2011-08-17, 10:48 PM

I vote for *scrubbed till I find out

*EDIT

Oh wait, it says vote by PM. Is it acceptable to do both, does a post here suffice, is a post here not supposed to be done by contestants?

Private-Prinny

2011-08-17, 11:04 PM

Both forms are acceptable, but I don't think an anonymous vote for honorable mention is necessary. I would also prefer if contestants didn't vote at all just to avoid the temptation of voting for yourself.

The Gilded Duke

2011-08-17, 11:13 PM

I'd also like to vote for Vald Lokkur, the Wolf of Winter. Never thought of using Arcane Archer together with this prestige class ever.

Zaq

2011-08-18, 01:38 AM

Hmm, nobody used either of my ideas, which is nice to see. My first idea was a raptoran using the Animal domain to get into Skypledged, thus opening up a hell of a lot of new spells (low-level, sure, but everything counts). That fell through when I couldn't think of what class to start out as. My second idea was to use the Incarnum domain on either a Totemist or a Soulborn . . . I was really, really close to just going VoP Totemist 10/Divine Crusader 10 with the Incarnum domain, but 1) I didn't know how people would react to me fudging the whole holy symbol/VoP issue, and 2) I ran out of time. (I had also considered using a Soulborn and then going into Wonderworker at the end, thereby snagging more 8th- and 9th-level spells than anyone else would get.)

I need to look at my free time over the next week or so. I MIGHT judge this. That's quite a few entries, though.

The Gilded Duke

2011-08-18, 02:06 AM

I was considering a Raptoran Crusader/Paladin/Divine Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator.

Worship Wee Jas, use the Magic Domain to get Anti Magic Field.
Fly around, use Crusader and Shadow Hand maneuvers and stances that counted as EX abilities even when they really shouldn't. Fly around in a widened Anti-Magic Field, Shadow Jaunting across the battlefield to shut people down.

Thurbane

2011-08-18, 02:24 AM

I really appreciate those entries who bother giving a brief description of the character (i.e. Race Class A/Class B/PrC A/PrC B) outside of the progression table - it makes it so much easier to get your head around the concept at a glance, rather than having to slog through to whole table before you even get the basics. Nice.

I haven't had much time on these forums lately (my work blocked access to this a bunch of other sites which I used to browse a lunchtime and other breaks), but if I had, I would have submitted something like Paladin 2/Binder 3/KotSS 5/Divine Crusader X/KotR X).

I really wish I'd been more active on the forums, this is one comp I really would have liked to enter, as I've thought about DC builds quite a bit...c'est la vie. :smallbiggrin:

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-18, 04:21 AM

Before I begin judging, allow me to say this:

Wow.

No, really. You guys really stood up to the plate and took a good swing at this one. I don't see ANY builds which are BAD (a couple with some mechanical issues, perhaps, but not bad).

You've brought me a veritable smorgasbord of culinary delights, and I shall take my time savoring every individual flavor.

No matter who wins the competition, everyone who submitted a build deserves should know that their creation was certainly worthy of the contest, and acquitted themselves honorably.

And here I thought I was going to be a jerkface judge this time 'round, with comments like 'Wrong! Please don't try to do it again, you'll only embarrass yourself and sicken myself'. Instead I find myself struggling to not shed at tear at the sheer craftsmanship involved in these builds.

You may still end up with 'Morbo say it not work that way!', but please know that I use this with tongue-in-cheek. Even a master can improve, it is simply that the improvements become more subtle. If I offer suggestions or constructive criticism, it is primarily to help you achieve even higher pinnacles of perfection in following competitions. It's tough to get better when you are on this level of excellence... but I shall do my humble best to help you improve.

I'll also say that I think that the Creative scores this round are going to be much higher than average. All of these builds are unique (Barring Shadowcraft Gnome CharOp build copypaste), and leverage abilities in ways that I never thought of going. Using such sub-par classes as Arcane Archer and Truenamer... effectively!

term1nally s1ck

2011-08-18, 05:16 AM

I've heard true naming is poorly built and otherwise bad. I don't know why.

But this seems ok, regardless. No-ones allowed to say (yet), but I wonder who submitted that one. :smallconfused:

Truenamer is hard to use because the DCs to cast spells scale the more you use them each day, you can only have one cast of each spell going at once, and your effects are about as good as spells, so the chance of failure isn't really worth it.

EDIT: All I'm saying is, I did something here I've never seen before anywhere. And I don't even count myself in the top 3 for most inventive. This round is absurdly high-quality.

OMG PONIES

2011-08-18, 08:04 AM

Eleven builds, all alike in dignity...seriously, I second term1nally s1ck. I'm excited to see the judges' comments this round.

gbprime

2011-08-18, 08:31 AM

For those keeping track at home, our submissions this time are...

{table=head]Main Class|Second Class|Domain Chosen
Hexblade | Arcane Archer | Winter Domain
Paladin | Bone Knight | Hunger Domain
Swordsage | fighter | Time Domain
Hexblade | Shadowcraft Mage | Illusion Domain
Bard | Warweaver | Healing Domain
Blackguard | Ocular Adept | Strength Domain
Duskblade | - | Community Domain
Hexblade | Paladin of Slaughter | Luck Domain
Favored Soul | Fighter | Protection Domain
Duskblade | Nar Demonbinder | Destruction Domain
Truenamer | - | Multiple Domains[/table]

I honestly thought there would be more Duskblades. The ability to channel a high level spell into a melee attack is delicious. But then, there's no shortage of deliciousness on this list. I almost wish I was judging. :smalltongue:

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-18, 09:53 AM

Going over these a little more in detail, I may end up the jerkface judge after all.

Game mechanics are there for a reason. Many of the builds have rather gross mechanics violations. Ignoring CL caps, ignoring prerequsites, ignoring swift action limitations... each build will have it set up in my judging post.

Just remember, I'm doing this to help you improve your optimization skills, not because I enjoy being a meany-face.

Everyone here is definitely above par for average skill. But the devil is in the details, and a couple of builds look a bit rushed, and some of those details got left behind, and now they're coming back to bite you in the arse.

Private-Prinny

2011-08-18, 12:18 PM

Notice: I received a PM from the creator of Braham, with regards to his Divine Crusader spell table. His copy of Complete Divine was misprinted (verified by a scan), and gave him an incorrect table for spell progression. This is now fixed.

cd4

2011-08-18, 12:49 PM

I will give a vote to Sortes for the Honourable Mention.

My idea was a social rogue/X/DC with the trickery domain but I couldn't work out an X that would make DC worthwhile and I had real difficulty finding a god that gave trickery and had a finessable weapon that fit thematically. I also debated on using a non-D&D god and picking the weapon I wanted but I thought the judges might penalise that too much.

Kefkafreak

2011-08-18, 01:03 PM

I originally wanted to use psionics, but I discarded the idea pretty soon. I see nobody used them either.

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-18, 01:24 PM

SCORING

Build 1: Vald Lokkur
Okay, you really surprised me, in several ways.

First off, I thought I was going to slap you down in the mechanics department about Arcane Archer, but then, after re-reading the ability Imbue Arrow, you are correct on both points: that it does not limit it to ARCANE spells, and that it flat defines the casting time + shooting arrow as a standard action. Bravo, man.

Second off, you do an excellent job of leveraging everything. You even leverage Weapon Specialization, by taking Ranged Weapon Mastery. Again, I thought I was going to have to smack down Elegance since I thought that Ranged Weapon Mastery required Fighter levels, as Weapon Specialization normally does. I was pleasantly surprised to find that I was incorrect.

And third off, kudos on making an excellent story, and blending it all together into a cohesive whole.

Points:
Creativity: 4.5
No, really. Arcane Archer? And I would have never thought of Abjuration Champion to combo with Hexblade!

Power: 4.0
Casting spells that normally take 10 minutes as a standard action? Yes, please! Setting up Battlefield Control, then being immune to it? Awesome! The only reason you didn't score higher is that your 9th level spell is... sub-par. XP cost, and a lesser version of Control Weather for a 9th level spell limits your power, compared to, say, Miracle. Also, while your battlefield control is high, your damage output, for a high-end character, is generally sub-par.

Having said that, awesome synergy with Arcane Archer, your entire spell list, Ranged Weapon Mastery, and your other class abilities!

As a question: you explicitly mention Intimidate as a skill you kept capped. Why didn't you go for Imperious Command and leverage it into an actually useful SoL ability?

Elegance: 4.5
Why was it not a perfect 5.0? Arctic Elf. I passionately dislike templates. It would normally have brought it down a full point, but seeing as how it wasn't over-powered, and fit in with the whole thing, I cut back the penalty in half.
Furthermore, I don't see what advantage Abjurant Champion had over more Hexblade. The only spell which is modified by this dip is an auto-quicken and auto-extend Protection from Law. Granted, it's handy, both for negating mind-affecting and for the bonus on AC, but really... there's no reason you had to blow a feat to get into this PrC. At Hexblade 7, you get Greater Hexblade Curse, which makes up for the lost AC, and it's not like you can't pre-buff yourself before combat, since the build focuses on ambushing anyways. If you absolutely HAD to go AbChamp, I'd have gone AbChamp1 and Hexblade7. You get the auto-extend for your Protection from Law, AND your Greater Hexblade Curse.

For either of these, I might have forgiven it entirely. But the combination of these two points lost you a half point and kept you from attaining a perfect 5 in this category.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 5
I don't often pass out 5's. To me, a 5 means 'this is the epitome and defining iconic build of this category' or 'this is the bar to which all others must strive to attain'. This build is both. You could not have done what you just did with any other class. You utilized EVERY aspect of the Secret Ingredient to blend together to make a more complete whole. Your entire build's flavor, from level one on up, immortalize and emphasize being a champion of your chosen deity.

Total score: 18
I never expected to see anything like that. Having seen it, I must change my viewpoint, and wonder how anything else can compare.

Build 2: Norrin Radd of Zenn-La, Herald of Galactus
You Magnificant Bastard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard)! You killed your chances at decent UoSI score, but I strongly suspect you considered it a willing sacrifice for your other stats.

You've got some mechanical... questions... in your build. That's going to hurt your Elegance score. Mind you, it could have been a LOT worse for you if you hadn't explained yourself, so you actually DO get an okay Elegance score. But... yea.

Having said that, this build is my choice for Honorable Mention.

Points:Creativity: 3.0

Known Cheese: DMM, Enervation optimization. As a general rule of thumb, if you can legitimately say 'You all know the drill here', then expect this to be a hit here. Furthermore, Paladin was an expected entry. Having said that, you did have some unique concepts in this build, so it all kind of balances out.

Power: 3.0
You've got some powerful combinations, but lots of things are immune to your shtick (constructs and undead, mostly), with almost nothing you can do if they are, unless you try for Minionmancy shennanigans, which will hurt you a LOT more in the Elegance department. So I'm going to assume you aren't trying to bypass the 'no leadership' clause through Fill The Ranks.

Elegance: 2.0
Okay, really? On the one hand, I have to give you props: you used a splatbook I don't personally own (Five Nations). However, you've got some mechanical problems here.

First, you used a Trait. That's almost as bad as a flaw, but not quite.

Second, you are using material from both Eberron AND Forgotten Realms. Pick one or the other, but not both, mmmkay?

Third, you're using templates. Granted, it's an acquired template, and you played fair with it, but it's still templating. So instead of the full point dock, you're only getting a half-point dock.

Fourth, you used sourcebook so obscure that I don't even OWN it.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1

Only took one level of Secret Ingredient. In fact, you barely qualified for this competition.

In short: Bone Knight hurt you *FAR* more than it helped. I don't really see what it did, other than turn Paladin abilities back on, which other classes can do equally well without questionable rules interpretations. This is being nice and assuming you aren't going for Minionmancy, which would have... well... you wouldn't have liked what would have happened then.

TOTAL SCORE: 9
Having said that, you captured the essence of the Silver Surfer. The chosen Domain *PERFECTLY* suits Galactus, and I must give you mad props for doing this. Mechanically, your build may be iffy, but it's got one of the best flavors of the competition.This build gets my vote for Honorable Mention.

Build 3: Mighty Casey
Well, Casey certainly certainly stepped up to the plate here. Too bad you've got some issues.

Creativity: 2.0
it seems to be a blend of well-known cheese... Knockback + Dungeoncrasher + Pouncebarian. Setting Sun throws + Dungeoncrasher is also well documented. Ubercharging without the Uber. I was half-expecting a self-buffing (with DMM Persist) Ubercharge build, but this isn't precisely that, thankfully.

Power: 3.0
You're a Charging Dungeoncrasher with casting support. You've negated some of the problems inherent in chargers (unable to reach flying, unable to target invisible), but when it all boils down to it, you're still just a charger with a few extra tricks. Also, you only get ONE swift action per round, so while you can very easily go Quicken True Strike at the start of your round, then charge and apply true strike to your first attack, it won't help the rest of your iterative attacks, barring RKV shenanigans.

Furthermore, you have some insanely powerful options that you completely neglect or frivolously squander. You practically ignore Contingency, you waste Time Stop, and you only have a passing mention for Foresight.

It's like purchasing a nuclear reactor so you'll always have hot water for your morning cuppa.

Having said that... you're still a Charger. You've got damage output, although it's fairly weak tea compared to most charge builds, and a decent chance of applying it.

Elegance: 1.5

You get a single Swift action per turn. Relying on True Strike is mutually exclusive with Pounce, since it doesn't affect iterative attacks, only the first one. So the Lion Totem dip is completely pointless. No, you can't have more than one swift action, your shady rules clarification forgot to mention one tiny little detail...

Swift Action

A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn. . This hurt you. Badly.

You have the insanely powerful Time Stop... then you squander it by being unable to do anything with it barring a bit of rebuffing. You fail to leverage Foresight or Contingency. You fail to leverage

You've got Dips. Almost the first half of your build is nothing but 'go into this class for x, and this class for y, and this class for z'. In eight levels, you have three base classes. Pouncebarian was the worst, since you can't really leverage your True Strike at the same time you Pounce, making them mutually exclusive.

And you have failed to meet prerequisites for Sudden Leap at 2nd character level, because it requires one other TC maneuver.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5

To be fair, this is about what I was expecting, but you failed to even leverage the most broken spells in the game. You would have done much better to not bother with DC and just gone boilerplate-standard Ubercharger. Your damage output and attack rolls would have been higher. However, you did at least take all 10 levels.

TOTAL SCORE: 9
In short, Casey didn't quite strike out, but he could've done a lot better if he hadn't ignored the first two pitches.

Build 4: Glimwyn Mardwicket, The Shadow Gnome
When you said 'shadow gnome' I shuddered. When I saw 'shadowcraft mage', I cringed. And then you went there. Maybe not as badly as That Damn Gnome, but you're using the same trick.

You forgot to list Planar Handbook as a cited source for Chaotician.

And you would've done better to have boosted Hexblade casting than Divine Crusader casting. As it is, you pretty much created dead levels for yourself, wheras if it had advanced Hexblade casting, you could've gotten 2nd level arcane spells.

Points:
Creativity: 1
Shadowcraft Gnome, by any other name, still smells as cheesy. Okay, so you didn't go all 5 levels for the extra 20% realism, but it's the same damn trick. The only reason you didn't get a 0 here is because Shadowcraft Gnome typically uses Sorcerer and arcane casting rather than divine.

Power:4.5
The primary reason you don't get a 5 here is that you don't have the 'greater than 100% realistic' code turned on, and you have limited endurance. But casting any spell ever? Yea, it's kind of like that. The other reason you didn't net a 5 is because you are now an Outsider, and didn't take advantage of Alter Self shennanigans.

You could also have used Shadowcraft Mage to advance Hexblade casting, instead of DC, which would have given you Alter Self, combined with Outsider, for all kinds of cheesy shenanigans.

Chaositician did nothing for you, power-wise. But it was good for the flavor, and there wasn't much else that could have slid in here that would have been more powerful.

Also, your build doesn't 'turn on' until level 18. That was the other deciding factor on not giving you a 5 on power.

Elegance: 3.0

One of the advantages of copypasting a CharOp build is that the CharOp guys make sure their builds work.

You lost Elegance by advancing DC and not Hexblade. By doing so, you created dead levels that could have been avoided, lost on the opportunity to exploit your outsider type. You gained Elegance because you only have a single base class, and everything mechanically fits.

I was strongly tempted to dock you more here for using Shadowcraft Mage, since most GM's would have hit you with your copy of Races of Stone for using it, but ultimately... it works by RAW *and* by RAI.

Chaotician is from an obscure source, which is not commonly found, much less accepted. That also docked a half point.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
Honestly, I don't think any other domain could have been leveraged as much by That Damn Gnome as the Illusion Domain. Having said that, I don't see why you didn't just use UrPriest for your 9's, with more spells per day. You went all ten levels, you leverage your spells properly. So it all balances out.

TOTAL SCORE: 11.5
Well whaddya know, copypasting CharOp builds CAN net you a decent score...If the Silver Surfer gained my vote for Honorable Mention, this one earns my vote for Dishonorable Mention. Copypasting CharOp builds is bad, mmmkay?

Build 5: Mother Theressa
You keep using that name PrC, but I don't think it means what you think it means.

Specifically, There's some limitations on War Weaver that you seem to be unaware of.

First off, Eldritch Tapestry means you need to build the weave, and you may only weave in a number of individuals equal to your primary arcane casting stat (CHA in your case). Granted, you started off with an 18, bumped it up to 23 with boosts, then I'll grant a +6 item for a total of 30. That gives you a maximum of 9 individuals in your weave. Not 'everyone within 30'.

Second off, Eldritch Tapestry may only be used on spells with a spell level equal to your War Weaver level. This means 2nd level spells at most.

You should also explicitly state that most of your healing comes from Healing Hymn. I am graciously going back and editing my judging with this ability in mind, but a mention would have been helpful, mmkay?

You get Mass CLW, which does what you try to do with War Weaver and CLW... only better, because it actually *DOES* hit everyone within Close range. In other words, a single spell just obviated your entire convoluted shenanigans.

Besides, at level 20, you have Mass Heal, which hits everyone within Close range for 110 points of healing, and removes almost all negative status effects. Why are you worried about CLW?

Points:
Creativity: 4
I'll grant you this, I wasn't expecting Bard/War Weaver.

Power: 1.5
In combat healing is sub-optimal. And you can't even do that very well. You have Heal, Mass Heal, and Regenerate... and you are focusing on Cure Light Wounds.

Heck, even the spell Mass Cure Light Wounds obviates your dip into War Weaver, since it CAN heal everyone within Close range 1d8+ (CL) max 25. So at cap, with the Healing Domain benefit, you can heal for 1d8+11 + (perform ranks). So you obviate your 2 level dip into War Weaver with a single spell you pick up as a domain spell from your chosen domain. Huh?

Draconic Aura (Vigor) only provides Fast Healing 1 to those less than 1/2 health. If you had taken the feat Dragontouched, it would have been Fast Healing 5, but still caps out at 1/2 max health. Sorry, but Silverbrow Human only lets you take the feat, but doesn't boost it up.

Elegance: 2

Basically, you only use one base class, which is good. You pick up a PrC which normally does a lot for that class, but since you only took two levels, doesn't actually do much, and you don't have anything other than Reach CLW that benefits from it, and you pick up Mass CLW which obviates it and mass Heal which blows it away. Then you pick up DC, and... well... everything you did prior to that is kind of obviated.

Since CLW doesn't do what you think it does, Mass CLW obviates War Weaver, and you've got spellcasting which is stepping on each other's toes, rather than working together... yea.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2Your Secret Ingredient gains NOTHING from your previous levels, and you apparently don't bother leveraging anything FROM your Secret Ingredient. You do, however, at least take the Secret Ingredient class all the way.

TOTAL SCORE: 9.5
Ave Maria. It was a nice concept, and certainly one I was not expecting, but considering you have 9th level spells, and are focused on incorrectly using a 1st level spell... well, at least your heart is in the right place.

Build 6: Maken'srelli "Mad Maks"
Mad Max... you, sir, get a cookie just for that.

Using a 3.0 resource is pretty ballsy.

Points:
Creativity: 4
Ocular Adept I did not expect. Paladin I expected, and Blackguard, as the most obvious way to have an Evil Paladin, other than a Paladin of Tyranny (which would have been much more mechanically viable). However, Ocular Adept came out of left field, and I certainly wasn't expecting the Great Mother.

Power: 1.5
You've got three different spellcasting lists, none of them have more than a 6th level spell, and none of them particularly powerful. Paladin/Blackguard is a T5 class for a reason. Ocular Adept really didn't add much to power. And only taking 6 levels of a class that goes 1-9 in 10 levels really crippled you.

Well, actually, taking the Strength domain is what crippled you, since it doesn't have any spells over 6th level worth bothering with. And it's abilities really do almost nothing for you.

I almost see a glimmer of 'charge build', but without the charging. As it is, you have sub-par to pathetic damage output (even WITH Combat Brute, you still have no way to accurately hit your target, you'd have done better with Shock Trooper, honestly), and that's... pretty much the focus of your build. You have no way to target creatures with reasonable mid to high level defenses (flight, invisibility), and no way to compensate for your weaknesses.

Elegance: 3
No glaring rules violations, at least. One base class. Blackguard level exchange. Ocular Adept was in there, granted, for storyline. I can see that. And hey, since Strength Domain spells after 6th level suck anyways... why not?

Also, you did correct in NOT getting all 10 levels, plus Ocular Adept, because you wouldn't have been able to gain the abilities of an Ocular Adept, being a Native Outsider, rather than a Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid.

However, you've got three sub-par spell lists to draw from. That's very kludgy. You've got a damage multiplier (Combat Brute), but a) it's hard to activate (triggers the round FOLLOWING a charge... and if you didn't kill it with your charge, you're probably not going to survive the full round attack in response), and b) you have no accuracy enhancers to make sure that any of your attacks actually LAND.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2

You didn't finish it off. You do, however, at least use what you get. It would have done better with UrPriest, however. In fact, Pal1/Blackguard10/UrPriest9 would have done a much better job overall. Lack of BAB would have been overcome with Divine Power, you get Righteous Might, and much less hassles overall.

TOTAL SCORE: 10.5Despite not being all that strong, I love the way you blended the flavors together. It's a very tasty entree, but rather weak overall.

Build 7: Braham, the half-elf Messiah
Wow, now this is an interesting build. Half-Elf and Duskblade I did *NOT* expect. Very well done, and well put together. He's definitely viable Party Support, and a passable Tank as well.

I love the flavor, I love the simple, elegant, yet solid build.

Points:
Creativity: 4.0
Half-elf I was not expecting, nor Duskblade.

Power: 4

You go out of your way to pick up the SRD Community domain for Greater Status, then you back it up with a solid line of buffs. Resistance looks nice... until you realize that everyone is already going to have at least a +1 resistance item, and it doesn't stack. Dimension Hop is a cute way to play Shell Games with everyone, and Swift Invisibility can either give a Rogue that one sneak attack he needs to finish a mob, or as a buff to conceal an ally from an almost certainly devastating counterattack from a not-quite-dead opponent. Bless is fun, but it won't stack with bardic inspiration. Swift Fly is a great way to make sure that you, or your allies, can reach flying targets, and Resist Energy is an excellent situational buff to tell a dragon, or a blastomancer, to go smeg off.

Most of your Duskblade spells are debuffs. Great for Arcane Channeling. Touch of Idiocy is an excellent way to nerf opponent casters. Ray of Enfeeblement is another good debuff. Every single one of your cantrips can be channeled. Not so good for Greater Status use.

Quick Cast + True Strike = good times. Excellent for hitting opponents with significant miss chance or insane AC. Swift Fly lets you still smack down something flying. Toss on Arcane Strike for additional damage output, bringing your damage capacity to 'below par for a striker, but adequate for your role as party support'. And it gives you something to use those slots that you don't need to use for the rest of the day. What would you do with three Hero's Feasts anyways? The duration lasts all day long.

And you are a viable Party Operator. How may I direct your call? And you do have good buffs. Hero's Feast, for example, Protection from Energy for those times when things throw energy damage around, Regroup and Refuge and Dimension Hop to shuffle the party around to their best benefit.

And decent bonus damage with Knowledge Devotion.

So, better than average, but not by much.

Elegance: 5
You have two classes, and one of them is the Secret Ingredient. You draw from a few, specific, commonly used sourcebooks (SRD + Complete + PhB II). It all works together. It just doesn't get more elegant than this.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.5
And the primary reason it's not a 5 here as well is because you only have two real spells you plan on ever using in Greater Status. You take it all the way, you get into it early, you use all of it, and you do it well. Status kind of goes by the wayside once you get Greater Status, but you've got uses for everything else, and you can always use your 2nd level slots for more Bless if you don't have a party Bard.

TOTAL SCORE: 17.5
And all I have to say is... good job.

Build 8: Lord of Misfortune
Well now, if any of these builds was truly a bastard, it's this one. Fortunately, that actually nets you points in a competition like this.

You've got some amazing synergy of abilities, all along the same theme of 'swing the nerf bat'.

You did surprise me with taking Divine Might and Divine Shield. I would have sworn that DMM would have been your shtick, particularly with Miracle being any spell you ever wanted to buff with. Divine Might is a free action, but Divine Shield is a Standard Action. Keep this in mind when planning for action economy.

Points:
Creativity: 3.5
Paladin, and their variants, were expected venues of entry. Hexblade was not surprising either. Combining both... well, not really. Hexblade has Mettle, Paladin has CHA to saves... they go well together.

I didn't expect Chaosititian nor the Luck domain.

Power: 4

You have miracle as a spell. You use Deadly Touch in a unique manner. You've got solid defenses. You've got several nerf-bats, and self-buffs. You've got 'Get out of Trouble' cards, and ways to simply say 'no'. Oh yea, and you have Miracle. And, unlike the other build who uses it, you actually use Chaotician as a shut-down of casters with Babble.

DMM would have boosted this, but I can understand wanting to avoid Known cheese and a possible Elegance hit as well.

Elegance: 4.5
The Chaotician is from a very obscure source which might not be accepted at all tables. That's the primary thing that kept you from getting a 5 score here.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4
You get in early, you go all the way with it, you use the spells you get well, although I think you skipped on mentioning Miracle cheese simply because you were afraid of getting docked more points in Elegance than it would gain you in Power. This whole domain is full of 'No' buttons, with a couple of 'do anything I want and get away with it' badges.

TOTAL SCORE: 16If you are going to be a bastard, be a magnificent bastard like this guy.

Build 9: Uruk, Guardian of Ulutiu
Honestly, the first thing I thought when I saw the build was 'oh gods, not another dungeoncrasher knockback charger build'. And... yea, that was pretty much a good description.

Points:
Creativity: 2
Known Cheese... pretty much the first half of your build was boilerplate Charger, switching out Whirling Frenzy Pouncebarian for Favored Soul so you can qualify for secret ingredient earlier. I was expecting buffing chargers, and here's another one.

Power: 3
You run up and hit things. You do a lot of damage when you do so. But unfortunately, you don't have any way of hitting things with mid/high end protections (flight, invisibility,etc...). About the only advantage you have over more typical charger builds is Mind Blank.

AMF isn't as useful as you think it is. To use it like you want to use it, you first need to close with a caster. By this level, you don't have the means to do so. And you have no way, barring magic items (which are shut down in an AMF), of reaching flying opponents. And they have *MANY* ways of dealing with you, even with you being in an AMF. Like most of the Conjuration college.

Elegance: 1.5
Oh, come on now. Feral template? REALLY? And you did NOT expect to see a major hit on Elegance over it?

Jotunbrud is from Races of Faerun. At least you're keeping to one setting, I'll give you that, but it's still a rather obscure source.

Favored Soul also docked you for not being in keeping with the rest of the build.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5
Well, you took it all the way to the end. You make use out of most of the spells, however you obviate the Weapon Specialization, since you can get that already, by virtue of having more than 4 levels in Fighter.

However, most of the heavy lifting is the fact that you are a Charger. A Charger with Third Eye: Conceal does what you can do. And do it better. Therefore, this is effectively interchangeable with any full BAB class out there that you qualify for.

TOTAL SCORE: 9Your primary ability you brag about is decidedly a joke, and in the end, you're just another Charger with some self-buffing ability that could be duplicated with magic items.

Build 10: Nefarious Tate
Well, it's different, anyways. I wasn't expecting a Nar Demonbinder. But you have one slight problem... nowhere in Nar Demonbinder OR in Divine Champion does it say that their CL stacks. So on that, you are incorrect. They have separate caster levels, because they have separate spell lists. Nor can you swap spells out on the two spell lists. This will hurt you in Power and Elegance.

Oh, and telling us which domain you used might have helped as well. I can only assume you chose the Destruction domain, since it's the only one with Harm and Implosion on it.

Points:
Creativity:4
I didn't expect Duskblade, and I sure didn't expect Nar Demonbinder. Pious Templar gives Mettle, one of the few ways to do so, actually, and I was kind of expecting it. However, using it to qualify for Nar Demonbinder's requirement to cast Summon Monster is cute.

Power: 3
Where did you ever get the idea that you could swap spells out between spell lists and combine caster levels? If it has it's own spell list, it has it's own caster level. And even then, you're explicitly wrong because of this cute little part:

Nar demonbinders cast their demonbinder spells as sorcerers, and learn spells from the demonbinder spell list as shown below:

So your Nar Demonbinder caster level is 4. Your Pious Templar caster level is 2, your Divine Crusader caster level is 13 (due to Practiced Spellcaster). Your Duskblade caster level is 5. I will agree that Nar Demonbinder casting is a good place to sac spell slots to power your Arcane Strike feat. However, you can't use them to cast Harm and you can't stack caster levels.

Now then, the Destruction domain (which is the one I'm assuming you took due to the spells you said you got from it) has a LOT of good spells to combo with Arcane Channeling. Disintegrate, Harm, and various Inflict spells, and of course, as you noted, you can heal yourself with Harm and Inflict spells.

The whole demonbinding thing... well... either it's not very strong, or it takes a nose-dive into Known Cheese. For your benefit, I will assume the former, as the latter will net you a 1 on both Elegance and Creativity, and drop your UotSI score as well, since that's where most of your power comes from.

Elegance: 2
What did you expect? The combo you rely on... doesn't work. You had to jump through hoops just to barely qualify for Nar Demonbinder, then your only use for it is as Arcane Strike fodder. Fortunately for this score, you only have one base class, so you don't have any dipping penalties.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5
Didn't take it all the way, docked for that. Since the combo you said was great at leveraging DC doesn't work, you don't get anything else here.

TOTAL SCORE: 11.5Honestly, where do you get the idea that PrC's with separate casting lists stack their CL's?

Build 11: Sortes
I did a double take. Then I did a triple take. Then I rubbed my eyes. Then I hit Refresh. Nope... it was still there.

Mad props to you, sir, for going with Truenamer. Some of the tricks you use will dock you elegance (custom magic item, reliance on items to be functional), but my hat is off to you for making the attempt.

Points:Creativity: 5
You used Truenamer. Do I *REALLY* need to go any further? Actually, I should clarify that... you made Truenamer WORK. Now *THAT* is worth a 5 on Creativity.

Power: 3
You can re-write your spell list whenever you want to. Knowledge Devotion gives you passable damage output. However, you've got a problem with that... namely, all your Knowledge skills go cross-class whenever you switch out your domains. Temporarily gaining access to things like Miracle (through Luck domain) is definitely worth it, but if you try to combo Law Devotion with Knowledge Devotion, you'll probably lose more than you gain.

Elegance: 3.5
I hated doing this, really I did. But you've got some real mechanical problems to offset the elegance of having two classes, one of which being the base class.

First off, you are relying on magic items to hit your Truespeak checks. Yes, I know, you need to, but it's still a hit. Second, you're using a custom magic item. Again, I know, it's necessary to make Truenamers functions, but it's still a hit. Relying on Polycheese at later levels is another ding.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.5
You finish it. You use it. You use every aspect of it. It certainly enhances what you can do. It isn't a 5 because you could've done the same thing with UrPriest. And probably done a better job of it.

[B]TOTAL SCORE: 16While you couldn't do everything you thought you could do, it was still a solid build.

So to recap the final scores:

Vald Lokkur: 18
Norrin Radd: 9 - Vote for Honorable Mention
Mighty Casey: 9
Glimwyn Mardwicket, The Shadow Gnome: 11.5
Mother Theressa: 9.5
Maken'srelli "Mad Maks": 10.5
Braham, the half-elf Messiah: 17.5
Lord of Misfortune: 16
Uruk, Guardian of Ulutiu: 9
Nefarious Tate: 11.5
Sortes: 16

In all... good job, people. No score under a 9. From me, that's actually a good thing.

Some things I saw which hurt people:

1) Casting classes with their own spell lists have their own caster level. No, they don't stack.

2) If you are going to use an obscure PrC from an obscure source, make sure you read the details first.

3) Read the spell before you assume it does what you think it does.

Private-Prinny

2011-08-18, 01:45 PM

I will point out that Lord of Misfortune actually received a score of 16. It would be a shame to see someone lose a place due to an error in the spreadsheet.

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-18, 01:48 PM

I will point out that Lord of Misfortune actually received a score of 16. It would be a shame to see someone lose a place due to an error in the spreadsheet.

Ahh, thank you. I was wondering how he ended up so low... I really liked that one.

flabort

2011-08-18, 02:10 PM

I really like Vald, and I really like Sortes.
Is Honorable Mention just the one you liked the best? And is the vote for that limited to just judges or can anyone cast in a vote?

If yes and anyone, Can I cast 1/2 vote for each Vald + Sortes? I really can't decide.

Also, While it's obvious the judges need to know their stuff, and the competitors, does the host need to know his stuff besides where to find the secret ingredient and it's general theme and stuff?
'Cause if I don't need to know anything, or much, I may start a desert round soon, myself.
And by desert, I mean the SI is GitP-HB.

term1nally s1ck

2011-08-18, 03:09 PM

Kefkafreak

2011-08-18, 03:50 PM

There are some really high marks :O and three characters with a 5.

In defense of Vald, Arctic Elf is not really a template, just a variant race from UA.

DeAnno

2011-08-18, 03:56 PM

(Not the person who submitted Mother Teresa)

In combat Healing really gets a bad rap in the optimization crowd, but especially with high numbers like this, and leveraging Delay Death, it can be really effective. The model of frail alpha strikers with good saves supported by a durable healer is really good for ripping stuff apart.

Piggy Knowles

2011-08-18, 04:21 PM

Shneekey, I really suggest you check out Healing Hymn from Comp Divine Complete Champion

Fixed. But yes, the Healing Hymn ACF does give a +1 sacred bonus per Perform rank to conj (healing) spells on top of the 1d8+CL that they normally heal.

The ability is worded a little bit oddly*, but it's pretty clear that the sacred/profane bonus to conj (healing) spells is separate from the normal 1d8+5 cap you'd otherwise have.

*For instance, the first bonus only says it works when allies cast a spell, but the second ability explicitly effects you AND allies - does that imply that a spell you cast isn't effected, despite the term allies generally including yourself? And does the bonus also work on, say, Lesser Restoration, or just on spells that heal HP damage?

term1nally s1ck

2011-08-18, 04:29 PM

Huh. I woulda sworn a Divine ACF was from the Divine book. Oh well, my bad. It's actually CDiv in the Mother Teresa post as well, so I didn't go check.

flabort

2011-08-18, 04:49 PM

I'm almost ready to launch the first Dessert Competition, just need to decide on the deadlines.
Private-Prinny, do you mind if I PM you what the OP will look like, so you can tell me anything I need to "fix", such as wordings? Or suggestions on where to use more/less copy/pasta?

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-18, 05:49 PM

Shneekey, I really suggest you check out Healing Hymn from Comp Divine, since it's the key part of Mother Teresa's trick and all, and the sole reason she has bard levels.
EDIT: And I'd assume that the focus on CLW is because that's the only healing spell she can cast with Reach Spell and still War-weaver it.

As for in-combat healing being suboptimal, that's because the average damage output of a creature out-strips the healing output of most builds. Mother Teresa kinda obliterates that with an average healing of 162.5 if only half her max targets need healing.

However:

1) Her creator should have mentioned this explicitly. It was not stated anywhere in her (very brief) submission

2) War Weaver *STILL* may only affect a number of targets equal to her charisma modifier, which was omitted

3) Mass Cure Light Wounds, and Mass Heal *STILL* obviates the War Weaver dip

4) Even healing 30 damage is *STILL* not effective when opponents are dishing out 100+/round or applying status effects.

I have edited my judging to reflect this, but the points remain where they are. In-combat healing doesn't work very well, and the only trick she mentions, Reach CLW through War Weaver, doesn't even do that particularly well.

term1nally s1ck

2011-08-18, 06:06 PM

However:

1) Her creator should have mentioned this explicitly. It was not stated anywhere in her (very brief) submission

2) War Weaver *STILL* may only affect a number of targets equal to her charisma modifier, which was omitted
Agreed, the submission wasn't explicit enough, since apparently figuring out the way a build works in order to judge it correctly isn't necessary.

3) Mass Cure Light Wounds, and Mass Heal *STILL* obviates the War Weaver dip
5th level spell vs 2nd. The CLW castings can take up *MUCH* less effective spell slots, and hit the same number of targets, since her max CL is 11.

4) Even healing 30 damage is *STILL* not effective when opponents are dishing out 100+/round or applying status effects.

Except she can keep up that level of healing for a very. very. long time, and has the upper spell slots free to deal with status effects via Heal.

And, in fairness, you're giving 3s and 4s in power to classes that do less or similar damage to what she can heal.

EDIT: Oh, and the *only* class that is giving her Mass Heal as well as significant numbers of Cha-based spell slots to use on her bread and butter is Divine Crusader, or potentially Ur-Priest, whose fluff is *completely* abhorrent to the concept.

NoldorForce

2011-08-18, 06:09 PM

My choice was for the Summoner domain and a White Raven Crusader base, but I ran out of time before heading off on vacation. Them's the breaks, I suppose.

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-18, 06:28 PM

5th level spell vs 2nd. The CLW castings can take up *MUCH* less effective spell slots, and hit the same number of targets, since her max CL is 11. Still has a MUCH more limited number of targets than her builder posted. And STILL has very limited number of spell slots. Please go back and re-read Heroes of Battle, page 112.

When you weave
an eldritch tapestry, you can connect a number of allies
equal to your bonus in your arcane spellcasting ability
score (Intelligence for wizards, Charisma for sorcerers and
bards).

How does caster level have any say in this?

Except she can keep up that level of healing for a very. very. long time, and has the upper spell slots free to deal with status effects via Heal.As for 'lots of spell slots', et's look at this, shall we?

Bard9 (since War Weaver eats a casting level) can cast 3 2nd level spells, and 2 3rd. If she's planning on buffing anyone up, this severely eats into this. If she's going to Inspirational Boost for IC bumping, she can't be playing her healing hymn. So that's a direct contradiction, unless she plans on 'twisting'. She doesn't really have Melodic Casting, so she'll need a Harmonizing weapon. And if she's planning on boosting everyone with Heroism, that's more spell slots she doesn't have.

A Divine Crusader, at cap, has 3 of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (because 5th+ should be Mass CLW or actually useful spells). Which would mean deliberately not using your 2nd, 3rd, or 4th level domain spells. But that's a total of nine of them per day.

Not so much, really.

And, in fairness, you're giving 3s and 4s in power to classes that do less or similar damage to what she can heal. In fairness, it's because of their ability to debuff, nerf, battlefield control, and otherwise make opponents unable to do anything useful, not because of damage output. You may note that the two charger builds never scored higher than a 3, and they both have *FAR* more damage output than you can heal with CLW.

EDIT: Oh, and the *only* class that is giving her Mass Heal as well as significant numbers of Cha-based spell slots to use on her bread and butter is Divine Crusader, or potentially Ur-Priest, whose fluff is *completely* abhorrent to the concept.

Which isn't even mentioned, and the implication is that she's actually using those slots for CLW's...

Particularly in a high-end game, you need to be able to deal with status effects and Save or Lose conditions in order to be a decent healer. And 30 damage is pathetic. In fact, I believe that was precisely the word I used to describe someone else's damage output which was around this level.

Ahh, here it is... Read up Mad Max's Power entry. He ended up with a 1.5 Power score because... his damage output was around what you can heal (more, if he can actually find a way to hit the broad side of a barn), and yea, I called his damage output 'sub-par to pathetic'.

I am, at least, being consistent in my judging.

Vandicus

2011-08-18, 06:33 PM

Forgive me if I'm wrong Shneeky, your judging knocks off points for two builds for being from a 3.0 source, but wasn't Chaotician brought into 3.5 by the Planar handbook on page 61?

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-18, 06:35 PM

Forgive me if I'm wrong Shneeky, your judging knocks off points for two builds for being from a 3.0 source, but wasn't Chaotician brought into 3.5 by the Planar handbook on page 61?

It's still a very obscure source, and wasn't Planar Handbook 3.0 still?

Vandicus

2011-08-18, 06:38 PM

No planar handbook is 3.5. The book is listed in the 3.5 errata and identifies itself as 3.5

*EDIT
Manual of the Planes was the 3.0 source I believe.

term1nally s1ck

2011-08-18, 06:41 PM

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-18, 06:44 PM

No planar handbook is 3.5. The book is listed in the 3.5 errata and identifies itself as 3.5

*EDIT
Manual of the Planes was the 3.0 source I believe.

Ahh, you are correct. I was thinking that it was one of the '3.25' books, contemporary with BoED/BoVD/Fiend Folio and others.

However, the Planar Handbook is still an exceptionally obscure source. I had to go out to my storage locker to find my copy. If it's so obscure that I have to go to my storage locker to get the book, it's worth a half-point dock.

The build which actually used it got a boost in Creativity for it. The Shadowcraft Gnome clone would have, had he not been a defining case of 'flat 1' for creativity for using a known CharOp build.

Vandicus

2011-08-18, 06:48 PM

However, the Planar Handbook is still an exceptionally obscure source. I had to go out to my storage locker to find my copy. If it's so obscure that I have to go to my storage locker to get the book, it's worth a half-point dock.

It is pretty obscure. I borrow it when I use it myself. Had to check online to even see whether it was truly a 3.5 book. :smallbiggrin:

*EDIT

As a side note, that was a great movie. I like characters who capture that moment of Patton shooting at a fighter plane with his pistol.

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-18, 06:54 PM

Mass CLW is 1 target per caster level. The highest CL is 11 at Div Crusader 10. Not unlimited.

Full casters get 2 more spell slots per level. Div Crusader gets 3.

Plus, you now get double the bonus spells for low levels from Cha.

And comparing someone who heals 10 people for ~30 almost at-will, and has access to Heal and Mass Heal, to a person who can hurt 1 person for 30....do I really need to explain why that is just silly?Couple hundred, actually, if he could land a blow.

And yeah. 3.0 power for a charger who can do what, a hundred damage? two hundred?

The healer with access to Mass Heal, and healing for up to 300 damage over 10 targets with a 2nd level spell gets 1.5 Per hit. With Pounce and Shock Trooper. In other words, you were dishing out 30's, they were dishing out 100's....

Oh, and yes, the high level spells were mentioned.

"her choice of Domain (Healing) sets her up to take 9th level healing spells and still be able to heal everyone with a LOT of spell slots."

Your problem, sir, is that you are adding up all the damage spread out over a group of people, rather than concentrated. You can keep a group of level 5 people up all day long. Level 20 people, however, have more than 30 hps, and are generally taking more than 30 damage per character per round. Plus have status effects, negative levels, and other unpleasant things being thrown at them.

Sure, you can keep a low-level mob going. I'll even grant that I forgot to calculate in bonus spells from your Charisma, although you still have limited number of spells if you plan on using any spell other than Reach CLW in your bard spell slots.

But you don't keep up with the ball curve. When opponents are dealing 100+ damage per target, you're healing 30 per target. That's not keeping up with the Jonses.

In brief, a Healer, a Tier 5 class, can heal better than you can, with more flexible options. That's... a pretty low bar you slid under.

A class with Turn Undead and the feat DMM Chain Spell would have been far more powerful than War Weaver, because at least then you could've chained something other than CLW.

term1nally s1ck

2011-08-18, 07:02 PM

No, the healer *really* can't. It can do slightly less with much higher spell slots. I have literally dozens of spells more to heal on that level with.

EDIT: And again, DMM chain spell on heals will finish up with less spell slots, less healing from the spell slots, and is a DMM Cleric.

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-18, 07:10 PM

No, the healer *really* can't. It can do slightly less with much higher spell slots. I have literally dozens of spells more to heal on that level with.

Ahem...

You have HALF the spells a Healer has, actually. Go open up the miniatures Handbook again. They end up with 6's up to 6th level, then 5 7th and 8th and 4 9th. So they actually end up having a lot MORE than twice on the important spells.

A one-level dip in anything with Turn Undead nets a Healer the ability to DMM Chain, using the same reach trick you do, and duplicate your effect with ANY spell they can cast. And while the casting list for a Healer is notoriously sub-par, it happens to include all the spells you are bragging about.

Then they have a Unicorn as a pet, which has his own supply of healing to dish out.

I stand by my assessment. If Healer is a mechanically stronger option than your build, you deserve a 1.5 in power. But don't worry, you aren't the only one.

The ability to heal 10 targets of 30 damage is FAR inferior to healing one target 300 damage.

And having TWICE your Caster Level, he gets a lot more use out of his Heal spells. And can Chain Heal and hit multiple targets for 150 damage AND remove all status effects as a 6th level spell.

term1nally s1ck

2011-08-18, 07:23 PM

IF I was going to make builds to do something like that, dipping cleric to get DMM, I'd not be competing in this.

And the Healer cannot do *anything* like the above at that spell level. Their Cure serious wounds is comparable in amount healed (with a DMM dip, which is *incredibly* cheesy), at 4th level spells.

A Healer can probably have that combination at level 10, when Teresa is fully online. It would be able to heal an average of 23.5 using 3rd level slots, or an average of 14.5 using 5th levels without chain spell. It can probably do that maybe 5-6 times before running out of TU.

Teresa can heal for 22.5 across 5 targets using (not assuming any items) 7 spell slots.

So, it's ability to heal is comparable to a Healer with a DMM cleric dip. Yeah, I don't really see the power level being equivalent to a tier 5 class there.

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-18, 07:26 PM

IF I was going to make builds to do something like that, dipping cleric to get DMM, I'd not be competing in this. Umm... read the thread title...

Iron Chef OPTIMIZATION challenge. The optimizer's challenge is to balance Power with Elegance. You avoided known cheese. But you also avoided doing anything useful.

And the Healer cannot do *anything* like the above at that spell level. Their Cure serious wounds is comparable in amount healed (with a DMM dip, which is *incredibly* cheesy), at 4th level spells.

A Healer can probably have that combination at level 10, when Teresa is fully online. It would be able to heal an average of 23.5 using 3rd level slots, or an average of 14.5 using 5th levels without chain spell. It can probably do that maybe 5-6 times before running out of TU.

Teresa can heal for 22.5 across 5 targets using (not assuming any items) 7 spell slots.

So, it's ability to heal is comparable to a Healer with a DMM cleric dip. Yeah, I don't really see the power level being equivalent to a tier 5 class there.

And at 12th level, a Healer is healing 120 damage to multiple targets, and negating status effects at the same time. Your point?

Doesn't have to be a cleric dip either, just anything with Turn Undead.

And 'cheesy' is a hit in Elegance, not in Power. We're discussing power, not Elegance.

Let me explain something:

You have access to 9th level domain spells, and you choose to heal ~30 damage per target. While other characters are getting access to Miracle, Mind Blank, Implosion, and other, actually useful abilities... you are healing ~30 damage per target.

Vandicus

2011-08-18, 07:27 PM

So, it's ability to heal is comparable to a Healer with a DMM cleric dip. Yeah, I don't really see the power level being equivalent to a tier 5 class there.

Think about what you just said for a few seconds. The healing power level is equivalent to that of a DMM cleric. Yet besides mass heal(which is still undoubtedly weaker than miracle, but that has an xp cost for raising one's allies) healing is generally not all that effective in combat, even for a DMM cleric. Heck in my games I make them all ranged automatically just because healing is so bad in combat.

Private-Prinny

2011-08-18, 07:33 PM

I have no problem with facts. Whether a book is 3.0 or 3.5, or whether Karrnath is a location instead of a deity (read Five Nations a bit closer, it's a city), they are small things that can be pointed out if a judge gets confused.

What I do have a problem with is this. When a judge is kind enough to provide an incredibly swift, detailed, and fair judging, they shouldn't have to spend half a page defending himself. This is exactly the type of situation I was trying to avoid by taking out the disputes. The entries need to stand on what was presented, not what was presented + half a page of expository arguing.

If this argument about Mother Teresa continues any farther, I can and will pull her out of this competition.

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-18, 07:44 PM

I have no problem with facts. Whether a book is 3.0 or 3.5, or whether Karrnath is a location instead of a deity (read Five Nations a bit closer, it's a city), they are small things that can be pointed out if a judge gets confused.

Ahh, I was not aware of that, all I had to go on was what I could google. However, I can't ding two other builds for using an obscure source and not also ding him for it. So the scoring comes out the same.

Seriously, though, mad props for pulling out a book I don't own.

Kefkafreak

2011-08-19, 01:32 AM

Thurbane

2011-08-19, 02:14 AM

In defense of Vald, Arctic Elf is not really a template, just a variant race from UA.
Indeed. There is an "acrtic" template kicking around, but as Dragon Mag material, it would be out of the allowed sources for the comp anyway. This is why it's generally good practice to list your sources somewhere in your entry, as it helps avoid confusion.

...as an aside, each judge is free to set their own criteria, of course, but some people seem to have a much broader definition of what constitutes an "obscure source" than I would have expected. I mean, maybe that's because I own basically every 3.0 and 3.5 non setting specific book (and a good deal of the setting specific ones, too)...or maybe I have become subconsciously indoctrinated by the op community! :smalltongue:

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-19, 03:48 AM

Also, in defense of Braham, Swift Fly and Resist Energy are also touch buffs, and you didn't mention Arcane Strike in the Power section. (Please note that in this comment and the one about Vald I'm not complaining about the judgment and I don't expect anything will be changed, just pointing out some things that I noticed).

Edit: I don't know if a contestant can vote, but I vote for Sortes for Honorary Mention.

Both Swift Fly and Resist Energy are 3rd level spells, he can only cast up to 2nd through Greater Status.

Arcane Strike is part of his reasonable damage output. Still not spectacular, but fortunately, he's got other things he can do as well. Consider that a Warlock is considered to have sub-par damage, without Hellfire + Binder + Legacy Champion combo, and Arcane Strike barely keeps up with it, on a more limited usage budget.

And honestly, if he doesn't mention it, why should I? Where in his entry, other than in the build chart, did he once mention Arcane Strike?

...as an aside, each judge is free to set their own criteria, of course, but some people seem to have a much broader definition of what constitutes an "obscure source" than I would have expected. I mean, maybe that's because I own basically every 3.0 and 3.5 non setting specific book (and a good deal of the setting specific ones, too)...or maybe I have become subconsciously indoctrinated by the op community! :smalltongue:

As a general rule of thumb, if I have to go out to my storage locker to get it, or if *I* don't have it, then it's pretty dang obscure. The only ones being dinged for 'obscure source' were the 3.0, the Five Nations (which is one of the few books I don't have), and the Planar Handbook. Those are all pretty dang obscure, at least in my opinion.

Kefkafreak

2011-08-19, 03:50 AM

Hmm? Resist Energy is level 1 and Swift Fly is level 2. I guess you're right about Arcane Strike, though he did mention it in passing.

He's definitely able to hold his own in melee combat, wearing Mithral Full Plate Armor, and using Arcane channeling, Power Attack (he holds his Longsword with both hands) and Arcane Strike, but that's not his main strength.

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-19, 03:53 AM

Hmm? Resist Energy is level 1 and Swift Fly is level 2. I guess you're right about Arcane Strike, though he did mention it in passing.

Okay, going back over my PhB II, it seems that the Duskblade gets access to both FAR earlier than most people do. I will edit my scoring appropriately.

Kefkafreak

2011-08-19, 06:00 AM

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-19, 06:09 AM

By the way, I think it's impressive how fast you posted the scores, specially being as detailed as they are. I hope I didn't bother you with my nitpicks :smalltongue:

Even if I don't win, this round is really exciting. I can't wait for the rest of the judges to finish.

It was my mistake that I thought that Duskblades got Resist Energy and Sudden Flight as a 3rd level spell like everyone else. Next time, however, you might want to explicitly point this out.

Furthermore, if you wish an ability to be recognized, you need to explicitly state it.

If you've got a Win Button, you need to tell the judges what it is, where it is located, and how you press it. If you've got a Denied (http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=priceiswrong&play=true) Button lying around, the judges need to know about that as well.

We judge on the level you present to us. Remember, presentation is an important part of any entree. If you don't tell us about it, don't expect us to know it. Part of this is knowing what your character you have built can really do, and knowing how to leverage it properly.

OMG PONIES

2011-08-19, 09:09 AM

{table=head]Main Class|Second Class|Domain Chosen
Hexblade | Arcane Archer | Winter Domain
Paladin | Bone Knight | Hunger Domain
Swordsage | fighter | Time Domain
Hexblade | Shadowcraft Mage | Illusion Domain
Bard | Warweaver | Healing Domain
Blackguard | Ocular Adept | Strength Domain
Duskblade | - | Community Domain
Hexblade | Paladin of Slaughter | Luck Domain
Favored Soul | Fighter | Protection Domain
Duskblade | Nar Demonbinder | Destruction Domain
Truenamer | - | Multiple Domains[/table]

Someone besides me made a table? I am so...*weep*...proud of you all.

By the way, I think it's impressive how fast you posted the scores, specially being as detailed as they are.

Seconded. Thanks for both the speed and quality of comments, Shneekey! And now, even though it's silly...

Tallies After One Judge
{table=head]ENTRY|PLACE|TOTALS|AVERAGE
Vald Lokkur|GOLD|18|4.5
Braham|SILVER|17.5|4.375
Deckard Malgus|BRONZE|16|4
Sortes|Fourth|15.5|3.875
Glimwyn Mardwicket|Fifth|11.5|2.875
Nefarious Tate|Fifth|11.5|2.875
Maken'srelli|Seventh|10.5|2.625
Mother Teresa|Eighth|9.5|2.375
Norrin Radd|Ninth|9|2.25
Mighty Casey|Ninth|9|2.25
Uruk|Ninth|9|2.25[/table]

Piggy Knowles

2011-08-19, 09:09 AM

Indeed. There is an "acrtic" template kicking around, but as Dragon Mag material, it would be out of the allowed sources for the comp anyway. This is why it's generally good practice to list your sources somewhere in your entry, as it helps avoid confusion.

To be fair, when Arctic Elf was mentioned in Vald's entry, it did link to the SRD entry on the Arctic Elf variant. But you're right, it never did list UA as a source, which would have definitely cleared up all doubt.

Also echoing what others have said about being impressed with the speed and quality of judging thus far. Looking forward to seeing other judges chime in!

Amphetryon

2011-08-19, 03:01 PM

Here are my scores on the builds. Congratulations to all contestants, regardless of score, for creatively approaching a difficult puzzle, in trying to make Divine Crusader do something unique.

Note: In light of Prinny's comments about debating and defending scores, I'll not be responding in thread to any concerns about any scores, in order to avoid potentially disqualifying one of these fine contestants.

Scores:
Vlad Lokkor
Originality: One of 3 Hexblades in this contest, this one using the very obvious and vanilla Abjurant Champion splash. Improved Familiar for Winter Wolf is pulled straight out of the Hexblade Handbook. While you make decent use of it, Arcane Archer appears to have been chosen specifically to make Divine Crusader look good in comparison, a move judges have been deducting for of late. It's also made a few appearances in IC contests prior to this one. The concept here is pretty much an "old, reliable" one.
Originality Score: 2.

Power: The Hexblade base makes your early levels a real slog, especially given how few Curses you get and how little ancilliary support you were able to afford for the Curses. You'll be a competent archer at most levels, but you'll be unlikely to dish out enough damage through the majority of a 1st through 20th level adventuring career to be the primary damage dealer, since Weapon Specialization + Ranged Weapon Mastery = a paltry +4 damage. Your main trick for power comes primarily from Imbue Arrow, which means the build's fuel is more Arcane Archer 2 than Divine Crusader 10, and Arcane Archer is a notoriously weak PrC.
Power Score: 2.5.

Elegance: Divine Crusader is entered on time, with a single hiccup in its progression. You didn't use any sketchy rules interpretations, but you did use a UA variant. If your chosen deity were one focused on storms or slimes to synergize with the Elemental Resistances Divine Crusader offers, I'd be able to overlook that hiccup in progression for a higher score, but as it is, I have to stick with my rubric.
Elegance Score: 3.5.

UoSI: As I mentioned in the Power section, you're primarily using Divine Crusader to fuel Arcane Archer, rather than the other way around. Aside from your minimal Curses and the Winter Wolf - neither of which come from the Secret Ingredient - there's little here that an Aasimar Favored Soul/Contemplative couldn't do as well or better.
UoSI Score: 2.5.

Total: 10.5.

Norrin Radd
Originality: Building a famous comic book character is fun and all, (trust me, I know (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9465019&postcount=96)), but it's not original, either in the sense of the concept or the contest.
Originality Score: 2.

Power: Yeah, you're powerful enough. We all (should) know that Mystic Wanderer gets some pretty boss toys, to go along with your "DMM and Quicken shenanigans."
Power Score: 4.

Elegance: Double-dipping campaign settings, adding on a template (and a trait, but you note that it's not "technically" necessary), two separate single level dips, Alignment shifting, not even attempting to finish the SI . . . the build's pretty messy, by contest standards. Several levels were even left devoid of skill selections, I'm guessing because the deadline loomed large (It's also "loses" not "looses"). In comparing this build to my given metrics, I cannot give a good score here in good conscience.
Elegance Score: 1.5.

UoSI: You knew this was coming. You only took a single level of the PrC that is the focal point of this contest. Props for the courage to do it, but it has to cost you in this category.
UoSI Score: 1.

Total Score: 8.5.

Mighty Casey
Originality: I figured this round would see Swordsages, Favored Souls, and Fighters, for the least painful ways to get Weapon Focus, and you grabbed 2 of the 3. Dungeoncrasher Spirit Totem Barbarian with Powerful Build, Shock Trooper, and Leap Attack is pretty stock-standard, as well. Both of these factors inhibit your Originality score, unfortunately.
Originality Score: 2.

Power: Thog smash. Thog smash good. Thog not smash as good as he think he do, though. Short of Ruby Knight Vindicator shenanigans, you can't use more than a single Swift Action in a round. That means, according to your writeup, you're using most of your spells in order to reliably hit twice in a given round, with luck deciding the fate of any additional attacks. Your additional attacks, sadly, are in short supply, with a paltry +15 final BAB for a charger, relying in large part on Wolf Fang Strike's pseudo-TWF, and offsetting the penalties by charging. Had you included a reroll mechanic of some sort, you would have reduced Lady Luck's role on your rolls a good bit more. Because you're dedicating so many resources to being able to Quicken True Strikes every round, you'll fall prey to most of the pitfalls of a straight Dungeoncrasher, struggling against more mobile defenses such as Flight or Dim Door, as well. Nice thought there, but the execution needs more work, and less shaky rules interpretation.
Power Score: 1.5.

Elegance: Surprisingly for a charger, 10th level was the earliest you could enter Divine Crusader due to BAB concerns. You adhered to favored class rules, and took Divine Crusader in a straight shot, with no other PrC to muddy the waters. Were it not for the Goliath's LA, your huge pile of source books, and the faulty logic on how Quickened True Strikes improve the build, this would be outstanding in the Elegance department.
Elegance Score: 4.

UoSI: As with Vlad, there's little here to indicate why you're using Divine Crusader instead of Contemplative; an Aasimar Favored Soul/Contemplative would do most of what this build does, and what it misses comes from Swordsage and/or Barbarian, not Divine Crusader.
UoSI Score: 2.

Total Score: 9.5.

Glimwyn Mardwicket
Originality: Gnome Shadowcraft Mage, really? Well-known cheese is well-known. Hexblade litters this contest in what is apparently an effort to snag Originality points, not counting the number of appearances Hexblade has made in IC contests to date. Chaotician even showed up again in this particular round.
Originality Score: 1.

Power: A Shadowcraft Mage is powerful; who'd have thunk it? You and the Silver Surfer, up above, are probably the strongest here in power (for reasons having almost nothing to do with Divine Crusader).
Power Score: 4.

Elegance: One of the reasons the Gnome Shadowcraft Mage is so well known is that it does its job so seamlessly, as this build highlights. Had you but listed the spells gained from the Illusion Domain within your entry (since it's not in the SRD), I'd probably have been forced to give this build full marks in the category. As it is, you still score well here.
Elegance Score: 4.

UoSI: You're a Shadowcraft Mage, not a Divine Crusader. You took a CharOp build, excised some levels, and slapped Divine Crusader in there; you could just as easily have chosen Divine Oracle or Contemplative, with precious few changes, had the contest been about those. That falls short of almost any positive metric for UoSI that I can think of, sadly.
UoSI Score: 1.

Total Score: 10.

Mother Teresa
Originality: I didn't exactly expect to see Bard or War Weaver, but the two are so often paired that the unexpected nature of their appearance is, at best, muted. Building characters after well-known people has traditionally faired poorly in Originality for these contests, to boot.
Originality Score: 3.

Power: Bard and War Weaver are often paired because they synergize well for considerable power. Unfortunately, you've used that synergy in order to be really good reactively, rather than proactively. In other words, Mother Teresa, as presented, is all about negating the effects of the enemy's actions, rather than eliminating the enemy or otherwise rendering them unable to act. It does the trick reasonably well, but there are many better, more powerful tricks from which to choose. Note also that their synergy doesn't rely especially on the SI.
Power Score: 3.

Elegance: You got into Divine Crusader as early as you could, given the poor BAB of Bard and War Weaver, which of course dictated the rest of your levels for you. Most of your feats and skills work to support your 1st 10 levels, rather than the SI. (Note: I'm not deducting for it, but please don't leave the judges to guess how many Skill Points you allocated to which Skills. It forces us to make assumptions, and you know what they say about assuming). However, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are both otherwise unsupported mechanically, and somewhat goofy thematically. I know they're required for the contest, but the fact that they're such poor fits for the inspiration for the build seems a bit inelegant.
Elegance Score: 3.

UoSI: I know I keep harping on it, but I'm forced to say it again: Contemplative (+ Southern Magician) does most of what you want Divine Crusader to do here, with no other changes except ditching the aforementioned goofy Weapon Focus/Specialization. The bits that an Aasimar Favored Soul/Contemplative can't replicate have nothing to do with Divine Crusader, and everything to do with Bard and War Weaver, which are not the focus of the contest.
UoSI Score: 2.

Total Score: 11.

Maken'srelli
Originality: Although Paladin has been noted before as a curious IC mainstay, Paladin retrained into Blackguard is unusual here in the IC contests, I'll give you that. Ocular Adept is sort of a clever way to snag some ranged attacks as well, and not often seen.
Originality Score: 4.

Power: While early in the 3.X cycle Blackguard may have been at least decent on the Power scale, it's no longer anywhere near strong these days. Having limited your Feat choices to the PHb and CWar (plus a single foray into Libris Mortis that doesn't increase your Power, only your survivability - marginally), you'll lag behind most party members or comparable front-liners in the damage category unless you can simultaneously Smite and Sneak Attack your foe, a combination which seems unlikely to crop up with great frequency on your Skill set. With three separate sets of spells, you'll probably have enough of them to get through a given day, but they'll also be of limited use because of the fractured nature of your casting.
Power Score: 2.5.

Elegance: You built off a fairly small base of sources, which this contest encourages. There's no backstory here at all, which hurts. Normally, I'd ding you for the Alignment shift and retraining, but Blackguard explicitly allows it without needing to open up the Big Book of House Rules. Unfortunately, you wait until really late to start on the SI, for which I must deduct.
Elegance Score: 2.5.

UoSI: This really hurts. You couldn't finish the SI, or make use of much of it. By your own admission, entering Divine Crusader slows down your build in effectiveness, and it takes several levels to recover. The Weapon Specialization Bonus Feat comes online so late that it's almost entirely inconsequential, even compared to its normal level of utility. That reads as "actively hindering the concept presented" from here, which means I have to score it as such.
UoSI Score: 1.

Total Score: 10.

Braham
*Note to Braham's author: That thing you linked isn't the SRD, but the wiki. Here (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm) is the SRD.
Originality: Divine Crusader lends itself to a Gish concept, and Duskblade is a Gish in a can. It's not especially surprising or original to see the pairing, though it's a bit surprising we didn't see it more. Apparently the CHA synergy with Hexblade made that entry more tempting, though it's not the only Duskblade in this contest. Your abilities as a swordsman and party buffer are decent, but a standard Bardadin can copy a majority of your shtick without effort.
Originality Score: 2.5.

Power: This category gives me a real problem with this build. By your own admission, much of the build's power comes from the spell Greater Status, which is not found on the most recent version of the Community Domain list (see Elegance, below). If you're in a campaign that allows your version of the Community Domain, the build functions as advertised. If not, much of it just fizzles.
Power Score: 2.

Elegance: Entry into Divine Crusader is as swift as possible, and you used only 2 classes. Dispite only two Classes, your combination leaves you MAD as a hatter. There's a bigger problem than the MAD, though: your Domain choice. As you specifically mentioned, the version of the Community Domain which you've used is found, in its primary source, in the Book of Exalted Deeds. Unfortunately, because the Community Domain was reprinted in the Spell Compendium (check the publication dates), it means the version in the Spell Compendium supersedes the version in the BoED. Note also that it had previously existed in Defenders of the Faith as a Prestige Domain, which Divine Crusader would not get access to, per Curmudgeon's ruling on the RAW. That means Braham's build is hinged on a now-defunct version of the domain's spell list, which only existed for a relatively brief period of time. A given player would have to tap-dance fairly carefully with most DMs to get this version of the Community Domain into the game.
Elegance Score: 2.75.

UoSI: While the majority of your power comes from Divine Crusader, it's not from something that the Divine Crusader alone could offer. Any other method of accessing (that version of) the Community Domain would accomplish the same thing with Greater Status, and the majority of the other highlighted tricks of the build come via the Duskblade, rather than Divine Crusader.
UoSI Score: 2.5.

Total Score: 9.75.Braham gets my "honorable mention" vote.

Lord of Misfortune
Originality: By presentation order, the 3rd Hexblade in this round, and Hexblade makes regular appearances in past rounds as well. Chaotician is also not unique to this round; come to that, Hexblade and Chaotician were paired together elsewhere in this very round.
Originality Score: 2.

Power: You're a Divine Might Hexadin with less than full BAB, relying on manipulating the dice to tilt the odds in your favor, which is part and parcel of what a Hexadin normally does on full BAB. Reliance on both a one-handed Exotic Weapon and a Heavy Shield further cut into your damage potential. The Deadly Touch ability is nice, and all, but by the time you get it, the spellcasters you say it's aimed for have Alter Self and are flying above you. Yes, you gain access to Miracle a whole level ahead of when a bog-standard Cleric would, but that's not especially difficult. In trade-off, you're losing a whole mess of other spells. Speaking of spells, what Paladin of Slaughter spell did you take?
Power Score: 2.5

Elegance: No single-level dips at all, and appropriately early entry into the SI. However, you're relying heavily on UA for the Paladin of Slaughter, and the order of the Classes means you'd suffer multiclass penalties from a stickler DM.
Elegance: 3.5.

UoSI: While you used all of the levels, the Luck Domain is the only thing you're really using from Divine Crusader; that lands it squarely as a 3 on my scale.
UoSI Score: 3.

Total Score: 11

Uruk
*Judge's note: Didn't we have another contest entrant with this same name, some time ago? Interesting confluence, if so.
Originality: I figured this round would see Swordsages, Favored Souls, and Fighters, for the least painful ways to get Weapon Focus, and you grabbed 2 of the 3. Dungeoncrasher with Knockback, Shock Trooper, and Leap Attack is pretty bog-standard for the archetype, too. Both of these factors inhibit your originality score, unfortunately.
Originality Score: 2.

Power: There's a reason a Feral, Jotunbrud Dungeoncrasher with Knockback, Shocktrooper and Leap Attack is the standard for the type. It does what it says it does, and does it pretty well. Your slowed BAB hurts in that regard. With the Protection Domain, most of your spells are reactive rather than proactive, which is not often a winning strategy in D&D combat. You also suffer from most of the problems associated with Dungeoncrashing, namely an intelligently played spellcaster is just going to avoid being hit by you, and use spells that don't care about AMF to make you a sad feral panda. Many of the Protection Domain spells are somewhat contingent on knowing what you're about to face, and you're sorely lacking in the ability to find that out on your own. "Far and away the most deadly mage-hunter around" is a tall order for someone conspicuously missing the Mage Slayer Feat chain.
Power Score: 2.5.

Elegance: Feral template, eww. That's melee-variety limburger at its finest, right there. I suspect you knew that, too, which is why it didn't make it to the level-by-level table. Ducking into Divine Crusader at level 9 has the unfortunate problem of being preceded directly with Fighter 5, which is often considered a waste of a level and therefore a poor leaping-off point. You had to orphan the better Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6 level until 15th level, which is awfully late.
Elegance Score: 2.75.

UoSI: Continuing your Favored Soul base Class would have gotten you Specialization at 13th, just as your entry into Divine Crusader did. It would have gotten you Perfect Self as well, and even more Energy Resistances than Uruk currently enjoys, not to mention free Wings for better mobility. Your Feats would be largely unaffected due to your slow BAB, which precisely matches a Favored Soul 20's by the end. I can't think of a Dungeoncrashing benefit that a Favored Soul can't replicate or improve upon via spells, so. . . why aren't you a Favored Soul 20?
UoSI Score: 1.5.

Total Score: 8.75.

Nefarious Tate
Originality: Divine Crusader lends itself to a Gish concept, and Duskblade is a Gish in a can. It's not especially surprising or original to see the pairing, though it's a bit surprising we didn't see it more. Apparently the CHA synergy with Hexblade made that entry more tempting, though it's not the only Duskblade in this contest. Nar Demonbinder was somewhat surprising, though.
Originality Score: 2.75.

Power: As a Divine Crusader, all of the power is coming from the particular Domain chosen, rather than on anything otherwise unique to the PrC; all remaining power rests on the supporting classes. He pulls some relatively impressive tricks, but most all of them are in spite of, rather than because of, the SI.
Power Score: 3.

Elegance: All of the Feat selections move Nefarious Tate toward a unified, stronger goal. However, Divine Crusader is left without its capstone, and the Class progression is somewhat jumbled in the name of power. While a god that mirrors Cyric's portfolio is not a far stretch, the fact that Nar Demonbinder is setting specific would be problematic in some campaigns. The fact that it's from Unapproachable East, which further limits access, could increase those problems.
Elegance Score: 2.5.

UoSI: As noted in Power, Nefarious Tate's abilities are almost in spite of, rather than because of, Divine Crusader. Pious Templar is entered but conspicuously dropped a level before it would grant Weapon Specialization, a minor bonus which Divine Crusader would still find superfluous. The vast majority of your summoning ability comes via Nar Demonbinder, rather than the SI. Duskblade 5/Pious Templar 3/Ur-Priest 8/Nar Demonbinder 4 would, as far as I can tell, get you identical benefits in essentially every area, with any difference easily made up in readily available items, and the same holds for Duskblade 5/Pious Templar 3/Nar Demonbinder 4/Contemplative 8, though it requires some finesse.
UoSI Score: 3.

Total Score: 11.25.

Sortes
Originality: I knew it would come up sooner or later: someone would take a chance on the shock-factor of using a Truenamer in order to bolster Originality. It's an interesting gambit, given the number of times comments have come up about a given choice having been made "just for the contest," I'll give you that.
Originality Score: 4

Power: Assuming all those Truenamer-boosting items are available, you'll be okay in the Power department. You won't be great, but you'll be okay. Note that's a potentially large assumption. However, the entire "trick" you're pointing out with Divine Crusader has issues. It's reliant on items (scrolls). It's reliant on a UMD check (yes, you have ranks, but failure is still eminently likely at low levels and is still going to blow your fun up for the day). It's a spell that any Cleric could choose to cast, without needing either of the preceding, yet isn't that good for them, but is somehow amazing for Divine Crusaders. If you're casting off a scroll and relying on UMD anyway for your power, why not just stock up on the scrolls and wands and such you'll find useful, rather than jumping through this hoop? If your trick is dependent upon this item, is there some reason every Divine Crusader in the contest (who presumably adventures with a party) can't use the item? Finally, it's nice that you can talk about whacking things with a dagger for meaningful damage with a straight face, but it was pointed out to me with Kaycha (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11498540&postcount=153) (twice! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11537819&postcount=181)) in the last round that relying on Knowledge Devotion to power up your attacks is not enough to be impressive, and your BAB is sorely lacking as a melee combatant. Given the exact set of tools you covet, you can do fine. Without them, you'll be in Dagger and Crossbow mode really, really quickly.
Power Score: 2.75

Elegance: As you probably gathered, I'm calling shenanigans on your Substitute Domain trick. Otherwise, you got into Divine Crusader as soon as you could, and took it straight through. Assuming your DM doesn't run screaming from the idea of a Truenamer, most of this build comes off reasonably cleanly, if extremely dependent on items.
Elegance Score: 3.5

UoSI: So, the main tricks you're highlighting are Truenaming (your other class), and your ability to UMD a scroll (not a class feature at all) to change your Domain (and emphasizing your Domain lands as a 3 on my UoSI rubric). I suppose that fits reasonably in the scale I provided.
UoSI Score: 2.25

Total Score: 12.5

Vandicus

2011-08-19, 03:21 PM

Incredibly speedy judging. As a side note, the Lord of Misfortune rating has a comment stating that he recieves XP penalties for multiclassing in that order, but the character is human and doesn't recieve an XP penalty from multiclassing.

*EDIT

So far, Vald Lokkur still holds first place with 28.5
In second is Sortes, with 28
Braham holds third with a score of 27.25
Deckard Malgus:27
Nefarious Tate:22.75
Glimwyn Mardwickey:21.5
Maken'srelliy:20.5
Mother Teresa:20.5
Mighty Casey: 18.5
Uruk: 17.75
Norrin Radd:17.5

It seems the top four are heavily contested positions so far, while the rest of the contestants seem to be dropping behind. However, Nefarious Tate and Mother Teresa recieved some of the higher ratings(both scoring higher than our current front runner) in the most recent judging, and if that proportion keeps up, they may be able to secure one of the top positions themselves.

Kesnit

2011-08-19, 03:32 PM

Something I've noticed in the judging in several past Challenges, but Amphetryon's judging made me want to bring it up. (Not specifically dinging on you, Amphetryon. Just what you wrote made me decide to comment.)

The idea of the IC is to use PrCs that don't get used. They don't get used because they are - to be honest - underwhelming. Amphetryon commented several times "you could get the same thing from Contemplative," which is true. Shneeky brought up comparisons to UrPriest, which are also valid. But if that is the judging criteria, why not mark down people that use Fighter instead of (say) Druid, or Paladin instead of Crusader?

The SI was DC, not Contemplative or UrPriest. I do not see marking down people because they used what the SI gave them, even though something else could give more. That "something else" wasn't the point of the competition.

Cieyrin

2011-08-19, 03:39 PM

My build idea was Divine Crusader (Time) into Swiftblade, as it doesn't specify anywhere in the prereqs that Haste has to be arcane. The arcane advancement hurts a little bit, since you can't advance Divine Crusader casting with it, but it's an interesting alternative. Again, my brain was elsewhere on how to go about it and not remembering that I could in fact make a build to submit but, having failed to succeed to ever manage to make a build in a timely manner for any IC comp, my brain decided to gloss over that I did have time this time. Ah well...

OMG PONIES

2011-08-19, 03:55 PM

flabort

2011-08-19, 04:13 PM

The tallies...they've already been tallied...:smallfrown:

But seriously, kudos to yet another speedy judge for ICO XXIII: Lightning Round!

You can still put them in a nice, neat table with averages :smallbiggrin:

OMG PONIES

2011-08-19, 04:26 PM

You can still put them in a nice, neat table with averages :smallbiggrin:

:smalltongue: I mean, if you insist...

Tallies After Two Judges

{table=head]ENTRY|PLACE|TOTALS|AVERAGE
Vald Lokkur|GOLD|28.5|3.5625
Sortes|SILVER|28|3.5
Braham|BRONZE|27.25|3.40625
Deckard Malgus|Fourth|27|3.375
Nefarious Tate|Fifth|22.75|2.84375
Glimwyn Mardwicket|Sixth|21.5|2.6875
Mother Teresa|Seventh|20.5|2.5625
Maken'srelli|Seventh|20.5|2.5625
Mighty Casey|Ninth|18.5|2.3125
Uruk|Tenth|17.75|2.21875
Norrin Radd|Eleventh|17.5|2.1875[/table]

Kesnit

2011-08-19, 04:29 PM

:smalltongue: I mean, if you insist...

Tallies After Two Judges

I can't believe Sortes is in second. I love the build, but my first thought when I read it was "TrueNamer? Oh, that is going to get hit so hard!!!"

Private-Prinny

2011-08-19, 04:36 PM

Regarding any and all disputes:

If you feel the need to point out something, there are exactly 2 things that I will pay attention to for the judges scores to be altered. Neither is debatable, therefore they have a place here.

1. If a judge has made a rules error that significantly affects their score, cite the correct passage i.e. Shneeky's judging of Braham or Nefarious Tate. The level of Duskblade spells, or the CL of a Nar Demonbinder (p.26 of UE) is an undisputable fact, and a clear mistake that needs to be corrected. If a contestant fears for their anonymity, they can feel free to PM me with these concerns. Always cite the book, page, and possibly passage.

2. If a judge marks down a build explicitly for a certain factor, and ignores that factor in a different build, bring it up. The judges are reasonable people, only looking to be fair. Only explicit deductions are eligible for this, since something that only deserves a passing mention may not be a large enough part of their scoring process.

The above represent the written rules regarding the entry, or a judge's consistency in their scoring. Any other disputes, such as the viability of a certain technique or exactly how original an entry is, will be nipped in the bud. They gum up the thread, accomplish little to nothing, and are otherwise unacceptable. Don't let this train wreck come to pass again. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158633&page=10)

ILM

2011-08-19, 04:58 PM

The tallies...they've already been tallied...:smallfrown:

But seriously, kudos to yet another speedy judge for ICO XXIII: Lightning Round! And Amph, to satisfy your curiosity, we've had Urog (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9111617&postcount=110) (Round IX), Wruk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9321076&postcount=149) (Round XI), and Oduk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9626928&postcount=180) (Round XIII), but never an Uruk before. You can trust me; I uruked it up :smallbiggrin:. Thank you, I'm here all week. Tip your waitresses.
Not only are the entries all impressive, the judging this time around was unbelievable. I thought about judging this one too but have a bit of work on my plate so I finally decided against; boy was I glad when I saw there were 11 contestants! But to hammer out those scores in just a few days... major kudos, guys.

Also, you still haven't sent me that Excel sheet :smallwink:.

OMG PONIES

2011-08-19, 05:00 PM

Also, you still haven't sent me that Excel sheet :smallwink:.

Sorry, I'm making some upgrades, updates, and error corrections first.

LovelyBlanch

2011-08-19, 05:34 PM

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-19, 05:42 PM

Not a dispute, just asking for a rules clarification.

Regarding Braham's Community Domain, is SRD strictly superseded by Spell Compendium? I don't really think any DM with whom I would like to play (a DM that doesn't actively try to screw over the players) would disallow it, but does RAW say anything about it? Actually, he is right, the SpC explicitly states that any previous versions of these domains are now superseded by this version.

Braham's one of my favourite builds of this round and I think it's a bit unfair that he's losing points in more than one category (I mean, a score lower than 10?) just because he used something in the SRD, which is one of the most basic and commonly used sources.He only lost it in one category for being an 'out of date source'. His primary lack of points comes from his lack of much that he does, other than a bit of minor buffing.

No offense, but I also feel like Amphetryon was too harsh on Vald, deducting points in Power just because his main strength comes from Arcane Archer, while giving builds like the Shadowcraft Mage a 4 while explicitly saying that their power has nothing to do with Divine Crusader.

Power /= Elegance /= UotSI. Shadowcraft Mage got a high score in power, because he can cast any spell in the game. Do note the 1 in Creativity AND UoSI that Amphetryon leveled on the Shadowcraft Gnome.

Vald, or so he judges, doesn't have a means of damaging opponents after he applies battlefield control. That was where the lack of Power comes from.

I see where you are coming from, Vald was one of my favorite builds as well, but I can also see his judging criteria, and given the litmus test he put forth for the builds, I would agree with his rulings.

Kefkafreak

2011-08-19, 05:53 PM

He only lost it in one category for being an 'out of date source'. His primary lack of points comes from his lack of much that he does, other than a bit of minor buffing.

Actually he lost points in Power and Elegance because of that :smalltongue:

Each judge has his or her own criteria and opinions, that's what makes it interesting :smallbiggrin:

I'm looking forward to the rest of the scores.

Tam_OConnor

2011-08-19, 05:55 PM

Only three builds left to judge. I'll finish after my game tonight. Call it... seven, eight hours?

OMG PONIES

2011-08-19, 06:34 PM

Only three builds left to judge. I'll finish after my game tonight. Call it... seven, eight hours?

If we don't have scores in nine we'll come a-knocking :smallbiggrin:.

Draz74

2011-08-19, 07:00 PM

I hate to be "that guy," but a couple more minor appeals to Shneeky:

You get a single Swift action per turn. Relying on True Strike is mutually exclusive with Pounce, since it doesn't affect iterative attacks, only the first one. So the Lion Totem dip is completely pointless. No, you can't have more than one swift action, your shady rules clarification forgot to mention one tiny little detail...

. This hurt you. Badly.
I'm not sure Casey's author ever intended or implied that he'd be using more than one Quickened Spell per round. He does mention using it in between iterative attacks (which is valid, even while Pouncing), but that could just be because he intends to assume that his first attack is going to hit anyway, then use True Strike to buff one of his iteratives (which tend to be the ones that miss ...).

And you have failed to meet prerequisites for Sudden Leap at 2nd character level, because it requires one other TC maneuver.
He takes Wolf Fang Strike at the same level, and doesn't swap it out until much, much later. This should definitely not be an issue.

gbprime

2011-08-19, 07:33 PM

or the CL of a Nar Demonbinder (p.26 of UE) is an undisputable fact, and a clear mistake that needs to be corrected.

Are you referring to this?

But you have one slight problem... nowhere in Nar Demonbinder OR in Divine Champion does it say that their CL stacks. So on that, you are incorrect. They have separate caster levels, because they have separate spell lists. Nor can you swap spells out on the two spell lists. This will hurt you in Power and Elegance.

Honestly, where do you get the idea that PrC's with separate casting lists stack their CL's?

Because yeah, that is an error.

Private-Prinny

2011-08-19, 09:27 PM

There are two factual errors regarding Sortes.

Relevant text.

Power: 3
You can re-write your spell list whenever you want to. Knowledge Devotion gives you passable damage output. However, you've got a problem with that... namely, all your Knowledge skills go cross-class. Temporarily gaining access to things like Miracle (through Luck domain).

However you have a problem with gaining Devotion feats. Specifically, Complete Champion, page 53. It explicitly states "If you are a Cleric...". But you aren't a Cleric. So you can't get devotion feats this way. Sorry.

Actually, under Deity and Domain, you'll find this passage.

A divine crusader chooses one domain from among those offered by that deity to his or her clerics and gains the granted power of the domain. (If the domain granted power includes the addition of a skill or skills to the cleric class skill list, add it to the class skill list for the divine crusader instead.) The divine crusader also gains the ability to cast spells from that domain (see below).

Sortes retains all Knowledge skills as class skills, and as far as I know, skill ranks don't disappear.

In addition, in the passage you refer to in Complete Champion, the phrase "or any other character class who gains access to a domain" appears literally right after the part you cited. The Player's Handbook defines a character class as...

One of the eleven player character types... Character class may also refer to a nonplayer character class or a prestige class.

Therefore, a Divine Crusader is a character class that gains domain access, eligible for domain swapping.

Draz74

2011-08-19, 09:43 PM

In defiance of all precedent, I've decided to judge this round. Reading these entries was just that entertaining.

=== Vald Lokkur ===
Originality: 4. I've mused before about ways to make Imbue Arrow worthwhile, but Divine Crusader isn't a method I'd ever come up with. It works, though. And you even managed to discover a new cheesy trick with Imbue Arrow, in an underpowered Core class no less, and use it in a powerful but not horrifying manner.
Power: 4. You're a mediocre archer with a few high-level spells that aren't known as the game's best -- with the possible exception of Control Weather, which does indeed get your foot in the door of the "I can actually have a strong non-combat effect on the world" club. Still ... the build's best tricks are hard to use in a party setting, and are better suited to an NPC. You're also quite bland at lower levels, and overlook a few obvious minor ways that your power could have been boosted (Hexblade 7, better Intimidate tricks, probably Dark Companion would have been better than a Winter Wolf).
Elegance: 4. You keep to the "Winter" theme admirably. No kooky rules lawyering, and even without the Imbue Arrow cheese the build is very functional. Arctic Elf doesn't bother me when it's obviously mostly for flavor (and Arcane Archer prereqs), and the lack of Constitution penalty is just the icing on the ... ice. Abjurant Champion kind of sticks out like a sore thumb, though; its Level 5 ability would have been a big boon, but you only manage to fit 3 levels. More Hexblade would have been better.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 5. Your use of Ranged Weapon Mastery, as well as your cohesive fluff, help to get you to the point where I can't imagine Divine Crusader features being utilized much more thoroughly.

=== Norrin Radd ===
Originality: 4.5. Props for gutsy moves: copying a comic character (in an original but workable way), and a neat refluffing of a domain.
Power: 4. DMM nastiness. Not much "bite" against things immune to Enervation, though.
Elegance: 2. A custom deity, setting-specific stuff, surfboard feats, DMM ... you knew this couldn't win this category. At least DMM (split ray) is a lot less of a headache than DMM (persist), though.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.5. I can't completely tank you, because I liked the focus on the Hunger theme (and Divine Crusader is supposed to be about focusing on a theme). But this contest isn't really about 1-level dips in the Secret Ingredient.

=== Mighty Casey ===
Originality: 1.5. You're a barbarian-dipping, Shock Trooping, Dungeoncrashing charger. Combining that with Divine Crusader is kinda new, but not really ground-breaking.
Power: 4.5. I'm willing to assume that you play this build intelligently, focusing less on the True Strike trick and more on the Haste, FoM, MoP, Foresights, and Time Stops than your description would indicate. (Not that True Strike is a worthless trick, but it's not your best one.) This is surely a powerful melee build, and much less of a one-trick pony than many chargers.
Elegance: 5. I appreciate the way you juggle your levels to avoid XP penalties, and the Barbarian dip bothers me less than it would thanks to your pointing out that it's a racially appropriate option. Mostly, though, I have to reward you here for the way you made me laugh when I realized that Mighty Casey was wielding a baseball bat in combat -- and it works with the Secret Ingredient's weapon restriction in an elegant way.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5. You get some points here for the way your Domain really does add a bit of flexibility to cover the traditional weaknesses of your base classes. Also for the way you will definitely put Specialization to use more than a more caster-focused build would. But nothing makes me really say "wow!"
Might Casey gets my "Honorable Mention" vote.

=== Glimwyn ===
Originality: 3. Shadowcraft Mage isn't a new way to make casters more flexible, but it's a new way to make Divine Crusader more flexible. There are some other hidden gems, too. Did you have to go the whole nine yards with Earth Spell, though? Not just Shadowcraft Mage as-intended?
Power: 4. All but one of the builds in this contest get Level 9 spells, but only one of them is more flexible in its power than you. Dark Companion is an effective combo, too ... but generally, this build starts slow and doesn't get its "main trick" until very late, which counters the flexibility.
Elegance: 1.5. You lose some points for obscure sources, for advancing DC casting beyond its limit when you could have advanced Hexblade more, and for known cheese. Furthermore, the early and late parts of the build just feel like they're two different, competing characters.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5. A clever way to make your Divine Crusader casting have lots of impact ... but was their any effort to put Divine Crusader to use, other than its spellcasting? Or even to use the spells it gets besides Silent Image and a Shadow-subschool prereq?

=== Mother Teresa ===
Originality: 2.5. Bard with War Weaver is nothing new. War Weaver and Divine Crusader is, but I'm still struggling to see the synergy.
Power: 1.5. You don't have much going for you other than having very, very large amounts of healing available. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean much in a typical campaign, where healing is only a true source of power if it's fast.
Elegance: 3.5. Simple, only one base class, nothing questionable. Unfortunately, still doesn't feel cohesive. You obviously ran out of time to really put the finishing touches on this build, which is a shame. I'd like to see whether it can be carved into something beautiful.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5. I don't know War Weaver very well, so I hope I'm not missing anything ... but it feels like this build is just a standard application of Divine Crusader with no clever synergy. You did take all the levels, and you do have a theme, but ... mechanically, why this PrC?

=== Mad Maks ===
Originality: 3. I, um, definitely didn't expect any contestant to have this many sources of spellcasting? Does that count as originality? I don't really catch the reference in the name or the deity, so I may be missing something here ...
Power: 2. A straightforward Blackguard build doesn't really impress me, and by your own admission that's this build's strongest hour. Only build in the contest without Level 9 spells.
Elegance: 2.5. Obscure sources, a headache of triple casting to keep track of, and you even admit that it can't seem to decide whether it wants to be an Ocular Adept or a Divine Crusader.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2. Doesn't complete Divine Crusader, or really even get all that the Secret Ingredient has to offer.

=== Braham ===
Originality: 4. Interesting domain choice, half-elf (why? is there a synergy I'm missing here? or is it just for the story?), and, well, I've never thought of how Duskblade could be turned into a support-style class.
Power: 3.5. You're certainly capable in combat at low levels, and have some cool tricks at higher levels ... but nothing mind-boggling. In a standard Tier-3 party, this guy wouldn't be considered useless, but at higher levels he'd probably be considered the "slow one" of the group.
Elegance: 4. Only two classes. Pretty straightforward; nothing to complain about except the reliance on an out-of-date version of a domain. Which I would allow, as the DM, but I still have you give you a small penalty here for it.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5. Only little snippets of synergy. (If only there were more cool Duskblade buffs that you could channel through Greater Status! That would make a BIG difference in this category.) I'm trying to remind myself that, in spite of the writeup's implication that this guy likes to lie in a hammock and sip pina coladas while his party does the fighting, he's got the chassis (from both classes) and the features (from Duskblade, mostly) to be in the thick of the fray, and still use his support-spells a bit at the same time. That keeps his Divine Crusader features (other than Greater Status) from being quite so neglected.

=== Lord of Misfortune ===
Originality: 2. Expected entry classes; basically a standard Charisma-based warrior with Divine Crusader adding one of the best Core domains. Nothing really shocking, but minor points for an obscure deity and the rarely-seen Divine Shield.
Power: 3.5. Sub-standard weapon choice, mandated by the chosen deity. Overall, pretty standard, with nothing extraordinarily weak or strong except for Miracle at high levels, which by itself gives +0.5 Power. I'm glad Babble finishes off the build's nominal "caster slayer" theme, even if it's not actually wonderful at caster-killing.
Elegance: 4. While there are a few things I don't love, such as the obscurity of Chaotician or the lack of a fourth Hexblade level, there is not much to quarrel with here, and the way it orders its base classes and avoids Nightstick reliance by spending feats are admirable.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3. It's got the whole caster/melee thing going, and uses all ten levels. But here, more than with the other entries for some reason, I'm left wondering why it isn't just a full divine caster.

=== Uruk ===
As a note that doesn't affect your score: the Type on your stat block should be Outsider (native, augmented Humanoid) rather than Humanoid (native Outsider).
Originality: 1.5. Expected entry classes, standard charging tactics (until high levels). Not surprising domain. One unusual feat choice.
Power: 3. Pushing people into your own Prismatic Spheres is a cute trick ... but yeah, overall you are still stuck with the usual limitations of being a charger build. No flight is a nasty crippling weakness for someone who hopes to rely on Antimagic. A fourth Favored Soul level would have been much stronger than Fighter 5. Convention says that a respectable gish is supposed to achieve BAB +16.
Elegance: 2. Feral, eww. I wouldn't allow that. You don't feel like the "caster killer" you claim to be -- you're not really all that strong when you Antimagic yourself. Otherwise, not much to say in either direction -- at least, nothing that I'm not already counting in another category.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2. Your Favored Soul levels serve to highlight, rather than obscure, the Secret Ingredient's inherent weakness; it's hard to think that you couldn't have just gone Favored Soul 17 / Fighter 2 / Contemplative 1

=== Nefarious Tate ===
Originality: 3.5. Not what I expected to see, but not really shocking either. I don't know enough about Nar Demonbinder to even consider whether it might appear.
Power: 4. He has Planar Binding and uses it a lot, for some real out-of-combat power. He uses Tomb-Tainted Soul to be able to harm enemies and help himself at the same time. Good high-level spells in his chosen domain. Arcane Strike tactics are solid.
Elegance: 2. Four different spellcasting sources = headache. I've never been a big Tomb-Tainted Soul fan, although I guess it's ok as long as it's not a whole party of "good" characters doing it. Oh yeah, and using Planar Binding (well) is Known Cheese.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3. Pious Templar dip serves to highlight that similar abilities to Divine Crusader could have been gained in other ways. The only trick here that a Cleric couldn't have done just as well is the Duskblade channeling trick ... but at least that's something.

=== Sortes ===
Originality: 5. Duh. As if Truenamer weren't enough, this build has some other gutsy tricks ... such as refusing to select a single Domain!
Power: 3.5. OK, let's be honest. Your careful optimization of Truenamer levels does not make you powerful, only tolerable. Knowledge Devotion is kind of a waste here, because you're not set up to do anything impressive with your daggers; look at your Dexterity and your feats. You are MAD as a hatter. Even with items, your Quickened Utteranes (or your Solid Fog battlefield control) are pretty shaky at some levels ... All that said, the Substitute Domain trick does work, and it makes you the most flexible build in this contest on a long-term basis -- one of only two that can cast different Level 9 spells at different times.
Elegance: 3. Equipment reliance doesn't bother me as much as it bothers some judges, and even moderate use of custom items is almost forgivable on a Truenamer. Only two classes; great flavor to tie them (and the Paragnostic Assembly) together. Jarring feat selection. (Besides Knowledge Devotion, I would have preferred to avoid Truespeech Training, instead simply paying extra skill points to keep the skill maxed. 10 skill points is not a great use of a feat.) Main trick is cool and works by RAW, but may bother some DMs.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 4. You don't get much mileage out of Weapon Specialization or other lesser class features, but you manage to use the main features of the Ingredient extensively, bypassing the main restriction they're supposed to have. And somehow you dig up unexpected synergy between these later levels and your earlier class, at the same time. Bravo!

=== Final Scores: ===
Vald Lokkur 17
Norrin Radd 12
Mighty Casey 14.5
Glimwyn 11
Mother Teresa 10
Mad Maks 9.5
Braham 15
Lord of Misfortune 12.5
Uruk 8.5
Nefarious Tate 12.5
Sortes 15.5

flabort

2011-08-19, 09:47 PM

...You gave everyone 4, 4, 4, 5. Then you list different totals at the bottom.

Copy/pasta error?

Z3ro

2011-08-19, 09:50 PM

I'll have my scores posted tomorrow afternoon, after I get home and can verify a few things with my books. And here I thought I'd be one of the first to get the judging done.

Draz74

2011-08-19, 09:51 PM

...You gave everyone 4, 4, 4, 5. Then you list different totals at the bottom.

Copy/pasta error?

Indeed. :smallredface: Fortunately I had the actual scores saved elsewhere. Fixed now.

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-19, 10:48 PM

Are you referring to this?

Because yeah, that is an error.

Where, precisely does it say in Nar Demonbinder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030502a&page=2) that it stacks with DC's casting, when it explicitly says it doesn't?

Private-Prinny

2011-08-19, 11:10 PM

Where, precisely does it say in Nar Demonbinder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030502a&page=2) that it stacks with DC's casting, when it explicitly says it doesn't?

Here it is.
Spellcasting: At each demonbinder level, the character gains spells per day according to Table 2-6. He must choose his spells from the Nar demonbinder spell list, below. The demonbinder's caster level is equal to his demonbinder level plus his levels in one other spellcasting class of his choice. To cast a spell, the demonbinder must have a Charisma score of at least 10 + the spell's level. Demonbinder bonus spells are based on Charisma, and saving throws against these spells have a DC of 10 + spell level + the demonbinder's Charisma modifier.

ShneekeyTheLost

2011-08-19, 11:19 PM

Here it is.

Ahh. Still can't switch spells out from different spell lists, but caster level is at least higher for Nar Demonbinder. It doesn't provide any boosting for the DC spellcasting, though.

Tam_OConnor

2011-08-20, 12:43 AM

Vald Lokkur
Originality: Hexblade is one of those classes that I can't stand to play without tweaking, so it's always a bit of a surprise. However, there were two other Hexblades, which diminishes the impact a bit. Didn't expect to see Adjurant Champion or Arcane Archer with a divine secret ingredient, though (+1). Winter domain was unexpected (+0.5). Score: 4.5
Power: Unfortunate discovery: Blizzard blocks all ranged attacks, so it'll work as a delaying or control tactic, but less useful if you want to actually damage them. Similarly, you get Ice Storm, not Sleet Storm. I think you might actually have better off with Sleet Storm, since Ice Storm doesn't block visibility. Aside from that, you've managed to make a capable archer and AoE damager/controller, with a few minions thrown in (+1). Score: 4
Elegance: I would have really, really liked to see a) innate cold resistance and b) ranks in Survival (-0.5). I'm also not sold on the Abjurant Champion. Yes, it's a powerful PrC, but it doesn't really seem to synergize all that well. With your AoE spells, the point seems to be not to be a target, not to bump AC a few notches (-0.5). Score: 2
Use of Divine Crusader: There really isn't much to this class besides the spells, but you manage to build off of the class features a bit, with Ranged Weapon Mastery, the potential for alter self cheese (at a very high level, admittedly), and adding darkvision to a vision-reliant build (+1). Score: 4
Other notes: Bit of a quibble: the Telchur of Complete Divine has a spear as a favored weapon. Frostburn, by contrast, has the choice of shortspear or shortbow. As such, you probably shouldn't have put Complete Divine down as a deity source.
Total Score: 14.5
Norrin Radd
Originality: Paladin? Sure, expected that (-0.5). Bone Knight? Hierophant? That blast from the past, Mystic Wanderer? Wasn't expecting that (+1). Divine Metamagic... yeah, it's been done (-0.5). Wasn't expecting the Hunger domain (+0.5). Score: 3.5
Power: Split Enervations is a nice trick, especially with Divine Metamagic. Gem Magic and Greater Potions I & II gives you some versatility. Not nearly as much as the comparable Hunger-domain Cleric, though, and that's what you're competing against (-1). Score: 2
Elegance: Mystic Wanderer has odd prerequisites, and it's really not where I expected this build to go. I mean, Mystic Wanderer is a herbalist/witch PrC, and there's not really a great transition from Bone Knight, which is an undead commander type. It's just... unfocused (-1). Furthermore, even though Mystic Wanderer isn't setting-specific by default, it is a Faerun PrC (and a 3.0 at that), and Bone Knight is an Eberron PrC (-0.5). Score: 1.5
Use of Divine Crusader: I'm with you, there's not much to do with Divine Crusader. But the whole point of this contest is to work with the PrC, not dash off a level and go swanning off with some sexier PrC (-2). That said, you do get synergy between Gem Magic and Ghoul Glyph, that you can only get through Mystic Wanderer... but then why not go Cleric/Mystic Wanderer? Score: 1
Other notes: Kind of missing the ability to do planar transitions or fly. Honestly, if you want to build superheroes, use Mutants and Masterminds. I'm being generous and not taking points off for not having a published deity, as well.
Total Score: 8.0
Mighty Casey
Originality: Spirit Lion Barbarian? Really? I mean, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper and Dungeoncrasher don't have to be cheesy, but a one-level dip for pounce certainly is (-1). Expeccted the Time domain (-0.5). Score: 1.5
Power: Ummm, wow. A pouncing charger with more versatility is always impressive (+1). Throw in all those Quickened True Strikes... (+0.5) Pity you don't have the Dex for TWF. Score: 4.5
Elegance: Really not sure what Keeper of Forbidden Lore is doing in there. The Barbarian dip still looks ugly, only I'm hitting you for a dip, not cheese (-0.5). Score: 2
Use of Divine Crusader: Late entry (-0.5). You're taking all the levels, but you only love it for the spells. Fortunately, there aren't many PrCs with 3/4 BAB and full casting progression you could go into... wait a minute. Why stay in Divine Crusader? (No deduction). Score: 2.5
Other notes: It's questionable if the Swordsage's Discipline Focus is a virtual feat like the Ranger's combat style, and so can be used to qualify for Divine Crusader. I invoke the 'No sane DM wouldn't let you' clause, but we're sort of on the edge here. Wow, that is a lot of sources.
Total Score: 10.5
Glimuryn Mardwicket
Originality:Chaotician is unfamiliar (+0.5), but Earth Spell/[Shadow] spells/Shadowcraft Mage is old hat (-1). Score: 2.5
Power: In the end, you're essentially a cleric with better spells that focus on debuffing/battlefield control. It's quite a ways from the hexblade you started as (+1). Score: 4
Elegance: On the other hand, it's a convoluted path getting there. The Chaotician is, well, dippy. I can see why you took it, I'm just not in love with it. It also takes this build a while to develop from awkward melee to TOTAL COSMIC POWER (-1). Score: 2
Use of Divine Crusader: You're not really doing anything with the class features. It's all about the delicious illusion domain. And you admit that, and it's okay (no deduction). Score: 3
Other notes: When Tiax rules, breeches shall not ride up so wedge-like!
Total Score: 11.5
Mother Teresa
Originality: Wasn't expecting Bard or War Weaver (+0.5). Certainly wasn't expecting the Healing domain (+0.5). Score: 4
Power: Even on a relative scale, you're not doing too well. Focusing in healing so much has crippled your ability to do anything else. I mean, when your options are limited compared to the Healer class... (-1). However, I do have to admit that you do hit point healing very well (+0.5). Score: 2.5
Elegance: Fairly simple and clean. It does what you want it to do very intuitively (+1). Score: 4
Use of Divine Crusader: Late entry (-0.5), with the usual 'I only love you for your domain spells' that's looking to be typical (no deduction). Score: 2.5
Total Score: 13
Maken'srelli
Originality: Paladin and Blackguard were expected (-0.5). Ocular Adept, though... What is it with this contest and obscure 3.0 Faerun PrCs? (+0.5). Didn't expect Strength domain (+0.5). Score: 4
Power: As a generic meat-shieldy type, you don't do too bad. But with no innate mobility powers, or clever tricks besides 'hit it harder...' (-0.5). Score: 2.5
Elegance: Ocular Adept is an interesting PrC, I'll give you that. But it's not doing too much for you here besides cluttering up the build. I mean, the inflict moderate wounds ray is usable 2/day, and you took Tomb-Tainted Soul to capitalize on that. It might be a different story if you took the Destruction domain, but as is, it just isn't worth the investment (-1). Score: 2
Use of Divine Crusader: Late entry (-0.5), plus not finishing the class (-0.5), plus a nagging feeling that this build would be better off with more Ocular Adept (-0.5). Score: 1.5
Other notes: Putting your race somewhere in the build would have been nice. I assumed human from the two feats at first level.
Total Score: 10
Braham
Originality: Didn't expect to see Duskblade in this contest, seeing as how they're Int-based (+0.5). Community Domain was unexpected (+0.5). Score: 4
Power: Here's the problem: your neat trick requires splitting the party. And there's very little that you could do with this trick that a Cleric 7 cohort with a bunch of wands couldn't also do. In spite of that, you're still an Arcane-Striking Duskblade with Mass Heal early and a few other little tricks (+0.5). Score: 3.5
Elegance: Nice and simple, with a fair bit of variety. I like it (+1). Score: 4
Use of Divine Crusader: Took all the levels, took it as early as possible, and don't really do much besides play with the domain (no deduction). Score: 3
Other notes: Don't get me wrong, the greater status trick is a neat idea, and it's a good way for DMs to have a DMPC healer who can't do much to affect the situation outside of healing. It's just not a very powerful trick. That said, it's a very sexy build, understated without being underpowered. Nominated for Honorable Mention.
Total Score: 14.5
Deckard Malgus
Originality: Again, Hexblade was unexpected, but others made use of it. Paladin was expected (-0.5), but Chaotician was not (+0.5). Luck domain was unexpected (+0.5). Score: 3.5
Power: It's all just sort of mediocre. Sure, you get miracle a level early, but that's it. You've got Extra Turning twice, for crying out loud. (-0.5). Score: 2.5
Elegance: Why, in the name of all that's unholy, do you not have luck feats? Your feat selection is sub-par as is, so why not add to the flavor (-0.5)? Score: 2.5
Use of Divine Crusader: Entered on time, didn't really do much with it once you were there (no deduction). Score: 3
Total Score: 11.5
Uruk
Originality: Leap Attack/Shock Trooper? Never seen that before (-0.5). Favored Soul was expected, and it's more notable when I don't see a Dungeoncrasher. Didn't expect Protection domain (+0.5). Score: 3
Power: It's a charger, but it isn't just a charger. Knockback and Driving Attack give you a bit of battlefield control, and your domain spells give you some more control and general sturdiness (+1). The antimagic field is a nice trick, but it's also a tactic that has can annoy the living daylights out of DMs. Score: 4
Elegance: ...Feral? Honestly and truly? Not classy (-0.5). Other than that, it works fairly smoothly. Score: 2.5
Use of Divine Crusader: Late entry (-0.5), and solid use of the domain. Getting Antimagic Field and Prismatic Sphere on top of a charger build is also inventive (+0.5). Score: 3
Other notes: Couldn't find the blade of blood spell; where is it?
Total Score: 12.5
Galliard Tate
Originality: Wasn't expecting Pious Templar, seeing as how it's essentially an alternative to Divine Crusader. Never actually seen Nar Demonbinder used (+0.5). Wasn't expecting the Destruction domain (+0.5). Score: 4
Power: Lots of spells and Arcane Strike, plus self-healing: hard to go wrong with that. And you've got demons for mobility and versatility. You weren't using that soul, right (+1)? Score: 4
Elegance: The Pious Templar doesn't look all that great here, especially when you could have also gained mettle through Hexblade (-0.5). Score: 2.5
Use of Divine Crusader: Entered on time, didn't do too much with the class features. On par (no deducation). Score: 3
Total Score: 13.5
Sortes
Originality: You actually used Truenamer? My hat is off (+1). Wasn't expecting anyone to actually pull off multi-domains (+1). Score: 5
Power: I don't have much of a context for Truenamer power besides Zaq's playthrough, but you're keeping up ranks in Truespeak, so there's only so bad you can get. Furthermore, Knowledge Devotion and a bunch of different domains give you much needed versatility (+1). Score: 4
Elegance: Two classes, one knowledge-grubbing concept. Feels very unified to me (+1). On the other hand, you're assuming a +10 competence item (-0.5). Score: 3.5
Use of Divine Crusader: Amazing. You actually managed to optimize not only the domain spells, but maximize the potential of the other class abilities (+2). Entered a bit late, though (-0.5). Score: 4.5
Other notes: A bit cheesy, but no more than any other usable Truenamer.
Total Score: 17

That's a wrap, baby!

Vandicus

2011-08-20, 12:52 AM

Removed Upon Request*EDIT

As a side note, I just noticed that Shneeky knocks off points for Sortes on taking Knowledge Devotion by citing page 53 of Complete Divine on trading domains for feats. However, Sortes seems to be taking this as his third level feat rather than trading a domain.

Arundel

2011-08-20, 01:03 AM

Some things are best saved for PM. Especially if it was asked they not be posted.

On topic, this is the first Iron Chef I have followed. The outstanding builds and judging has made me wonder why I haven't been watching since the beginning. Kudos to all.

Draz74

2011-08-20, 03:38 AM

Wow, that's a lot of attacks on my judging that fall outside the scope of "clear, easily proved rules misunderstandings." I await Prinny's direction about whether I should go through and reconsider things carefully, or whether such appeals are simply deemed inappropriate due to likelihood of causing extensive debates and bad feelings.

I will mention that I didn't look up the Great Mother because I thought it wasn't a D&D reference at all, but (based on the context) a comic book reference.

cd4

2011-08-20, 04:50 AM

Mother Teresa
Power: Even on a relative scale, you're not doing too well. Focusing in healing so much has crippled your ability to do anything else. I mean, when your options are limited compared to the Healer class... (-1). However, I do have to admit that you do hit point healing very well (+0.5). Score: 1.5

I have a small problem, with this part of the scoring, I assume that you start at 3 like the others seem to. The scoring is 3-1+0.5 = 2.5 not 1.5 that you have put in the total. Which is right?

Tam_OConnor

2011-08-20, 04:57 AM

...Which is right?

Corrected, thank you for catching that.

OMG PONIES

2011-08-20, 07:09 AM

The outstanding builds and judging has made me wonder why I haven't been watching since the beginning. Kudos to all.

All half-crazed competitors and blisteringly-fast judges thank you. Check out the first page of the thread; there are links to previous rounds of the competition if you find yourself with tons of free time. Having read back over them myself once I became smitten during Round IX, I can tell you that it's a good (if time-consuming) read that can really help anyone's optimization skills. I nearly shed a tear when I saw Akal Saris' Old Lob (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8441606&postcount=106), still our highest-scoring entry to date (based on average scores).

@Draz and Tam: Thanks for two more super speedy judges!

@Tam: Mother Teresa's total score reads 12.5, but adding up the categories yields a 13. Which is correct? Also, Blade of Blood can be found on page 103 of the Player's Handbook II.

Tallies After Four Judges
{table=head]ENTRY|PLACE|TOTAL|AVERAGE
Sortes|GOLD|60.5|3.78125
Vald Lokkur|SILVER|60|3.75
Braham|BRONZE|56.75|3.546875
Deckard Malgus|Fourth|51|3.1875
Nefarious Tate|Fifth|48.75|3.046875
Glimwyn Mardwicket|Sixth|44|2.75
Mighty Casey|Seventh|43.5|2.71875
Mother Teresa|Seventh|43.5|2.71875
Maken'srelli|Ninth|40|2.5
Uruk|Tenth|38.75|2.421875
Norrin Radd|Eleventh|37.5|2.34375[/table]

Private-Prinny

2011-08-20, 08:39 AM

Wow, that's a lot of attacks on my judging that fall outside the scope of "clear, easily proved rules misunderstandings." I await Prinny's direction about whether I should go through and reconsider things carefully, or whether such appeals are simply deemed inappropriate due to likelihood of causing extensive debates and bad feelings.

Seeing as most, if not all, of these complaints are highly subjective, I would ask you to reconsider only if you think he has a point. I would much prefer to see it taken down.

Z3ro

2011-08-20, 09:27 AM

Alright, here's my judging.

Vald Lokkur – 16

First off, I want to say I really liked this build on a personal level. This type of character is why I really like the Iron Chef competitions.

Originality: 4.0
A very original build. I did expect Hexblade, as did several other competitors, which lost you points, but Abjurant Champion and Arcane Archer were completely unexpected. As was the whole concept of a ranged build, which came out of nowhere and was exceptionally well done.

Elegance: 3.5
Two big hits to what would otherwise be a very strong score. Number one, I don’t see the advantage of Abjurant Champion over just more Hexblade. Sure, it’s not worse, but to me it’s not really giving you abilities that are worth getting into the PrC. The second problem is with casting 10 minute spells as a standard action. Yes, it looks RAW to me, and might even be RAI, but I can’t see many DMs allowing it at their tables (I probably wouldn’t). For that, I have to mark you down. Otherwise, no dips, everything flows well.

Power: 4.0
You get marked points off for the lack of real punch with your weapon, but you have excellent battlefield control all over the place, and some decent debuffs. Power isn’t always about punching things in the face.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.5
This build utilizes almost every facet of the secret ingredient. The only one you didn’t really capitalize on was perfect self, which is why you lose the half point. Other wise an exceptionally well built character that wouldn’t really benefit from taking levels in another class, and couldn’t function as constructed without the secret ingredient. Well done.

Norrin Radd of Zenn-La, Herald of Galactus – 8.0

Originality: 1.5
I’m sorry, but I can’t give a good score to a build that explicitly copies a well-known character. And I love the Silver Surfer, he’s always been one of my favorites, but this category is originality, and this character is definitely not original.

Besides the character, you also lose points for starting as a Paladin, an obvious entry, and using well-known DMM tricks. You do get some points for Bone Knight and Mystic Wanderer, which were not expected.

Elegance: 1.5
Some real problems here, too. First, you use setting specific material from two different settings. After that, you apply a template which docs you points. Finally, anytime Paladins change alignments, I have a hard time swallowing the situation (granted, your back story does give a good reason for the alignment change (well, the SS’s back story, anyway)).

Power:4.0
Granted, once you get pass all those problems, your trick is pretty good. It’s well known, but well known for a reason. You can inflict massive hurt on someone in a hurry. You lose points, as several types of creatures are immune to your tricks, but you have minions to back you up as needed.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.0
I’m sure you anticipated the hit here. While on the one hand PrCing out of Divine Champion at level one makes a certain amount of sense, that’s not the point of the competition. You could have set up this build any number of ways without the secret ingredient, and they probably would’ve accomplished your goals better, too.

Mighty Casey - 10.5

Originality: 2.0
This build doesn’t exactly break new ground here. Basically he’s a charger that can buff himself, hardly something terribly original. You’ve got all the bases covered, dungeon crasher, pounce barbarian, knockback. Really the only originality is the use of spells, and even those aren’t that original.

Elegance: 2.0
The build started well enough then dipped into spirit lion totem barbarian. You lose double points for that, as a dip and something that could have been accomplished through other means. Additional, the build doesn’t seem to fit together very well, as Swordsage perhaps could have been better replaced with Warblade.

Power: 4.0
If you’re a charger build, you at least have a couple of different tricks than most. You can do a lot of damage to a single target. I liked the use of quickened true strike to help mitigate power attacking, though you can only do it once a round. Mind blank and contingency give you some protections most chargers don’t have. I would have liked to see more usage out of time stop, but other than that, not bad.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5
You take all ten levels of the secret ingredient, but you don’t manage to get more out of it than you would have with a traditional charger. Unfortunately, you would have been better off with any of several different martial classes, so you lose points here.

Glimwyn Mardwicket, The Shadow Gnome – 12.0

Originality: 2.0
While I didn’t expect shadowcraft gnome, so you get some points for that, but it is a well known trick, so overall you lose more than you gain.

Elegance: 4.0
While not very original, the build is well put together. You do lose some points for advancing Divine Champion casting, which was just wasted when you could have advanced other casting instead. Otherwise the build flows and goes well together.

Power: 4.0
The build sells out for power, and I’ll give it to you that it does that well. Your spell-casting out-strips just about everyone else, but you lose points for two different things. First, your build is weaker than most at low levels, and second you didn’t get alter self when you could have. So while the build is strong, it could have been stronger.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.0
You use all ten levels, and the build definitely benefits from the illusion domain in a way that others couldn’t. But you lose points because while the secret ingredient gives you a tangible benefit, other classes could have done it a lot better and most of your punch comes from your other classes.

Mother Theressa – 11.0

Originality: 4.0
Bard and War Weaver were unexpected, as was a character focused on healing.

Elegance: 3.0
I’m actually not sure how to score this one, actually. You only use one base class, which is good, and a PrC that advances that class. In addition, the build follows the theme of healing rather well, but the abilities don’t really synergize with each other. War Weaver could have been left out without a loss of utility, and divine champion, while thematically appropriate, merely duplicates abilities you’ve already got until late in the build. As a result, you get a 3 along with a *shrug*

Power: 2.0
I’m sure you expected a hit in the power department, and I don’t see much to recommend this build. Even at its best, you’re only healing a minimal amount each turn. I am not in the camp that in-combat healing is useless, but sadly, you don’t even do that very well. I don’t see anything in your build that would recommend it over just about any other divine class focused on healing. You even make it a point to mention that at 20th level, you’re healing around 30 hp on every party member, every turn. That’s not a lot at that level; even effectively giving your party fast healing 30 won’t turn around many fights. You’d be better off focusing on casting heal on the most damaged each turn.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.0
I’m torn on this category, too. You take all ten levels of the secret ingredient, but don’t do much with them. They stick to the theme, certainly, but you could’ve done the same or better with any number of other base classes.

Maken'srelli "Mad Maks" – 6.5

Originality: 2.0
Paladin was the obvious entry to this PrC, and you and several others took advantage of that, thus the point loss.

Elegance: 1.0
I really don’t like that your build has a setup for a Paladin to fall. This basically sets up one of two scenarios: either you start at level 11 (which this competition doesn’t) or you screw over your existing party when you fall to blackguard. Without the most understanding party in the world, that’s not going to happen. The ocular adept levels could have been skipped; I have no trouble believing a fallen Paladin could become a Divine Champion in one level. In addition, planning to fall at the specific level that gets you the most benefit just feels cheesy to me.

Power: 2.0
I don’t really see where you’re going with this build. You’ve got several different spell lists, but no real winners on any of them. The chassis for a melee character is solid, but that’s about it. Whatever you were planning for the combat output falls kind of flat, hence the low score.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.5
Didn’t take all ten levels. Even more importantly, you use almost nothing from the class to enhance your character. Additionally, any number of classes could have better accomplished what your build did.

Braham, the half-elf Messiah – 14.0

Originality: 3.0
Half-elf was unexpected (and is, in my opinion, an under-appreciated race) but duskblade was, so those balance out.

Elegance: 5.0
I generally dislike giving perfect scores in any competition, but if this isn’t perfect elegance, I don’t know what is. One base class and the secret ingredient, no special tricks or complicated combos, and nothing extra added on, everything flows. Bravo.

Power: 3.0
I struggled for a bit with myself before settling on this score. On the one hand, your character is a great party buffer; you’ve got spells like bless, fly, and resist energy that can be cast on anyone at long range. You’ve got some great debuffs like touch of idiocy and ray of enfeeblement. Even arcane strike and knowledge devotion. But I don’t know, it seems too scattered and unfocused, resulting in just an average package, not to mention the lack of higher level buffs/debuffs. This score could’ve been higher if you had a little more focus; buff, debuff, tank, pick a side, we’re at war!

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.0
You take all ten levels, and use most of the spells that are given. The reason this isn’t higher is that you would’ve been better off with any number of other PrCs, or even just going Duskblade 20, and I can’t give a better than average score if you would’ve been better off staying in your base class.

Lord of Misfortune – 12.0

Originality: 3.0
You lose points for both Paladin and Hexblade, both of which were expected. Chaosititian and the luck domain were not, so they balance out.

Elegance: 3.5
Not bad in the elegance department. No dips, and avoided any kind of obscure and rules-questionable combos. Flow is okay, as I don’t see hexblade and Paladin as classes that naturally go together.

Power: 3.0
You get penalties mainly because early on, there’s nothing to recommend this build. You’re just a weak sort of gish, and most of your tricks don’t stand out. Even when your big punch comes online at 16, it’s a case of too little, too late, as in one more level full casters would get it anyway. While I like what you were trying to do, it’s just not enough to get a better than average score.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5
While you use the secret ingredient and take it all the way, I’m not seeing a huge benefit of it over some other combination of classes. And again, the real power doesn’t kick in until 16th level, hurting again in this department.

Uruk, Guardian of Ulutiu – 10

Uruk is my vote for honorable mention

Originality: 1.5
I just wanted to say that personally I love builds like this. Big guys that run around and put big hurt on things. But in the context of this contest, on originality, you lose big points. Dungeon crasher? Feral? The only even slightly original part was favored soul, and even that wasn’t terrible original, given the secret ingredient, but you get points as no one else used it.

Elegance: 2.0
No dips, which is just about all this build has going for elegance. Feral template earns you a big minus, both for being a template in general and feral in specific. Favored soul doesn’t really seem to fit into the build concept too well either, and would probably be better off replaced by more fighter.

Power: 3.5
You’re a charger build, and you can definitely do that. In addition, you have some extra spells that provided a level of protection to you that most chargers lack. The combo of throwing things into your prismatic sphere is awesome, both mechanically and visually, except that many enemies at that level can do things like fly or teleport, striping the combo of most of its usefulness. I can’t rate you much higher, as you have most of the problems other charger builds have; can’t fly, deal with miss chance, or deal big damage if you’re stuck unable to charge. The spells help, just not enough.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.0
You take all ten levels, and make good use of many of the abilities. I’d like to give you higher, but for the most part, you’d be better off with any of several other classes. There’s a reason charger builds are well known and don’t extensively use Divine Champion.

Nefarious Tate – 12.0

Originality: 3.0
Duskblade was one of the entrants I expected, and several people utilized it. Nar demonbinder was unexpected though, so they average out.

Elegance: 2.0
No dips, which is good, but having so many caster classes that don’t stack hurts your elegance. In addition, your spell list is all over the place, and I’m having a hard time understanding it. I wouldn’t normally penalize someone for their build presentation, but I am having the hardest time reading your spell list, making judging very difficult, so you lose a small point over that.

Power: 4.0
You’ve got some good tricks, mostly involving channeling spells into your melee attacks; I full expected Harm channeling, mostly because it’s a good trick. So you get some points for that, which mostly comes from the SI. Your demon binding is another good trick, giving you out of combat utility as well as some extra bodies in combat. One of the better combo melee fighter/summoner I’ve seen this side of druid.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.0
You lose a little for not taking all ten levels, but gain a little for the synergy of channeling spells with duskblade abilities you get from Divine Champion. So it’s a wash.

Sortes – 16.0

Originality: 4.0
Truenamer? Really? So now I have to spend time reading through Truenamer garbage in ToM just to understand your abilities. Hope you’re happy. (Oh, and totally unexpected and original, good show). I did have to resist my initial urge to give it a 5, as while the Truenamer was unexpected, many parts of the build, such as knowledge devotion and the reliance on spells, were.

Elegance: 3.5
No dips, one base class, so pluses for that. But you really on items to make your class work (common with truenamers, I know, but there’s reasons why they suck). In addition, I read your explanation for why domain swapping works, but some DMs might still not allow it (I’d give it to you just because you chose Truenamer, but not everyone will agree with me), so you lose just a little bit for that.

Power: 4.0
Given the Truenamer base, you sure managed to squeeze a lot of power out of it. UMD+outsider by itself is a powerful, if cheesy option. But the ability to swap out your domains gives you versatility the other entries lack, which definitely helps up your power. You weren’t quite clear on how you’re swapping out devotion feats with your domains; I’m assuming your taking the devotion feat instead of the domain power, but it’s not clear, so I’m not going to add or deduct points for it.

Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.5
You take all the levels, and manage to use all the abilities to good effect, including perfect self. The only points you lose are due to the later entry of the class.