Big Bad Needs More Health

[TroubleBrewing]

I hate just making things happen due to DM fiat. I also hate it when my BBEG gets skooshed in round 1 of combat because of the chargebarian/mailman/whatever and their INSANE damage output.

Is there any way of increasing the HP of an NPC (outside of DM fiat) that does not cause an increase in CR? I don't want to resort to plot armor.

[deuxhero]

Tougness! It's always a good feat. You even take it multiple times!


Seriously though, Improved Toughtness and Magic Items dedicated to the task, exact items depend on level. I guess the Survivor PRC, and possibly any PRC focusing on defense but Survivor doesn't do much beyond make him not die and thus not a big CR change, works as well.

[Glimbur]

I like throwing in some mooks or other things to complicate the battle. A fighter with a sword is pretty easy. A fighter at the top of a column which has many projections on it seems about as easy... until you realize that he has levers up there which make blades spring out and stuff. There are several obvious answers to this, but it makes the fight more interesting.

You could try talking to your PC's about how you feel their characters are too powerful.

Shield Other (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shieldOther.htm) is a pretty handy spell.

[Urpriest]

Monster HD don't give much CR. If your BBEG is, say, an Aberration, or an Undead, then each racial hit die will only add 1/4 of a CR point. So find a creature of one of the right types capable of advancement, and make that your BBEG.

[SowZ]

Do you already give him max HP for his hit dice?

[TroubleBrewing]

While these are excellent suggestions, I confess that I'm looking for something to help me specifically for one circumstance.

My BBEG's lieutenant is getting directly involved for the first time in tonight's combat. He's a Ranger 6/Swordsage 2, and he's only got 50 HP. (I use average hit points for everyone, not just the NPC's.)

Would it just be easier to give him max HP per hit die? That'd bump him up to 76 health, but I'm still not convinced that's enough to survive the party's damage output for more than a round or so.

EDIT: Swordsage'd on the above idea.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Greater Consumptive Field: Putting the E in BBEG.

Also putting the 1d8 temp HP, +2 str, and +1 CL per useless mook killed on your BBEG, so he is indeed much tougher. Fight cheese with cheese, I say.

[TroubleBrewing]

For the BBEG, I plan on cheesing him all the way to France. For the lieutenant, I'm going to be hard-pressed to do so because he's not a full caster. :smalltongue:

EDIT: I feel like I should clarify something. My players are not too powerful; if anything, the opposite is true. All I want is for this fight to be long enough to be memorable, and worth all of the time they've spent fleeing in terror from this guy. If he goes down from one or two hits, they'll be horridly disappointed. I want to give him some added survivability without making it seem like I'm intentionally making him tougher than he should be.

[deuxhero]

If he's a ranger (with martial adept levels, which means he is surely a dual wielder) hmm...

Give him a potion of blink. If he works for the BBEG, he should have some minion who can spare an action (Wait, what is his AC? If it is something like a Monkey...) to use it on him (do the rules ever say potions are always drank? Fluff this type of potion as applied to the skin).


You not only consume the potion (no phat loot), but simply make your single attack focused PC miss.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

If he's only 8th level, the mailman hasn't come into his own yet (just got Orb of X, but can't thesis it just yet), and there are ways to deal with chargers. Mostly, put the fella in difficult terrain and let his swordsage abilities deal with it. Also, if since the BBEG has already scried on the players, his trusted lieutenant will have the right defenses/resistances. Concealment to negate sneak attack, energy resistance to negate scorching ray/combust, etc.

[TroubleBrewing]

That's pretty much what I'm resorting to. I'm going to keep him out of the party's reach for as long as I can, and then enter into combat when they're good and tenderized. Hopefully these things will be enough.

[SowZ]

Barksin Potion, (+4 AC,) Shield Potion, (+2 AC.) One is a deflection bonus and one is a natural armor bonus so it should stack with any existing armor. Bear's Endurance Potion gives an additional 16HP. It might seem cheesy, but I don't think it is. If the Lt. knows he is going into a deadly battle, 1000GP on potions that will significantly increase his survivability is a no brainer for a smart eighth level character. I assume he has some solid magical gear, too.

Plus, he's an 8th level Lt. I imagine he has a couple squads with him at all times. Throw in two 3rd level Srgt. and 8 1st level fighters. Or just one squad if that is too much for them. One 3rd level Srgt. and 4 1st. level fighters all with solid tactics being led by a competent Lt. will make for a memorable encounter.

What level is the party?

[Rei_Jin]

He may not be a caster, but he could have a special potion that his boss made for him that is a maximised vampiric touch (plus 60 temporary HP). Have him use it on a mook so that he drains them to death and then seems to glow with power.

The spell is HERE (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/vampiricTouch.htm) if you want details.

[Vladislav]

Good luck finding a mook with 50 hp.


You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal. However, you can’t gain more than the subject’s current hit points +10, which is enough to kill the subject. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later.

I suggest a potion of Alter Self. Did you know Troglodytes have +6 natural armor?

[Dr.Epic]

Tougness! It's always a good feat. You even take it multiple times!

Someone should make a fighter who just takes nothing but toughness with every feat.

[Rei_Jin]

Pfft, he's the DM, all he has to do is put a Mook there who has 50hp and who exists solely for the purpose of dying.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Pfft, he's the DM, all he has to do is put a Mook there who has 50hp and who exists solely for the purpose of dying.Well, he could also just give him 50 more HP, since he's the DM. It seems like he wants to go by the book, though. Some people like it when DMs go by the book.

[TroubleBrewing]

Some people like it when DMs go by the book.

I happen to be one of them. :smalltongue:

I've given him max HP per hit die, an Amulet of Health +6, a ring of Shield Other, keyed to his hugely optimized Dire Bat animal companion, and the Child of Shadows stance. He should be all right. :smallbiggrin:

[CyMage]

I happen to be one of them. :smalltongue:

I've given him max HP per hit die, an Amulet of Health +6, a ring of Shield Other, keyed to his hugely optimized Dire Bat animal companion, and the Child of Shadows stance. He should be all right. :smallbiggrin:

I'd suggest against the amulet unless you want the PCs to get a hold of it. Bear's Endurance and using UMD on a scroll of Heart of Earth should do it nicely.

[Rei_Jin]

You know, if you put a level 4 Dwarven Barbarian with Improved Toughness who has a 20 Constitution with average hitpoints (6.5 per level with max at level 1) next to the lieutenant, and have him Rage, he'd have 63 hitpoints that you could siphon.

Then give the players XP as if they had defeated the mook as well.

That's perfectly legitimate and within the rules.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

While these are excellent suggestions, I confess that I'm looking for something to help me specifically for one circumstance.

My BBEG's lieutenant is getting directly involved for the first time in tonight's combat. He's a Ranger 6/Swordsage 2, and he's only got 50 HP. (I use average hit points for everyone, not just the NPC's.)

Would it just be easier to give him max HP per hit die? That'd bump him up to 76 health, but I'm still not convinced that's enough to survive the party's damage output for more than a round or so.

EDIT: Swordsage'd on the above idea.

He's a Swordsage. He's got Setting Sun. That means Baffling Defense + Shifting Defense. Take a swing, he counters and you miss (or worse, Scorpion Parry... you just did your several hundred damage to one of the party members.... ooops), then he takes a 5' step out of your reach so you can't finish your attack progression.

[Crossblade]

Damage Reduction can also be useful.

[Optimator]

Perhaps a Bard minion with a Horn of Resilience (MIC 208)? 50 or 100 temporary HP.

[0nimaru]

If you haven't spent all of his wealth, contingencies as items can artificially boost his health. Mid-end healing spells bought as contingent crafted items set to go off after take a % of his hp would be by the books (Complete Arcane) and tactically counterable by a smart PC group.

Also note that you can do this multiple times since contingencies can be fairly complex, albeit not convoluted. (Cont 1 goes off when I'm below 50% hp. Cont 2 goes off when I'm below 50% hp and Cont 1 is no longer active. Cont 3... )

[Ravens_cry]

Someone should make a fighter who just takes nothing but toughness with every feat.
Puts a new spin on Ablative Armour, now doesn't it?

[TroubleBrewing]

He's a Swordsage. He's got Setting Sun. That means Baffling Defense + Shifting Defense. Take a swing, he counters and you miss (or worse, Scorpion Parry... you just did your several hundred damage to one of the party members.... ooops), then he takes a 5' step out of your reach so you can't finish your attack progression.

That's exactly how it went down, actually. The fight went exactly as I had planned; the Voidmind Bardbarian (former party member turned mindflayer slave) shot the Factotum up something nasty in the first few rounds, the Dire Bat successfully bullrushed the PsyWar to the ground, the Gravetouched Ghoul Divine Mind (also former party member turned slavering undead) did absolutely nothing aside from distract the Ardent from the real target: The Ranger.

After they eliminated two lesser threats, and only the Dire Bat and the Ranger were left, the party was down a Factotum (dead from being full attacked with Vicious Shortswords), the remaining three party members (Ardent, PsyWar, Crusader) retreated up the stairs. The PsyWar tried to charge the Ranger, but he Counter Charge'd him off the edge of the second floor, causing some falling damage. The bat rushed in to finish him off, but a timely Vigor saved him. The Crusader went toe-to-toe with the Ranger, but because of the 20% miss chance, couldn't hit him, and when he did, half of it went to the bat.

The bat, thanks to the Warbeast/Magebred templates had Evasion and kept saving against the Ardent's attempts to Energy Pulse everything. The PsyWar ran out of PP and eventually resorted to grappling the bat while Expansioned. The Crusader went down to a flurry of attacks from the Ranger, and the Ardent shot off a desperate Mind Thrust at the Ranger. He failed his save, and the bat took enough damage from the Shield Other ring to bring it to negatives, leaving only the Ranger left alive.

The Ardent and the PsyWar rallied, and just barely managed to bring down the Ranger before he was able to take a full-round action to refresh his maneuvers.

All in all, a successful end to the campaign! Two party members lived, and two of them died in the attempt. They died well, though, and everyone left happy.

Thanks for your help, playground!

[Runestar]

Temp hp is your friend.

There is this necklace in MIC which gives +12 temp hp for charge as a swift action (comes with 3 charges, so it can grant 36 temp hp over the course of the fight), or a one-shot 24 temp hp boost.

Maybe a spell storing weapon with vampiric touch?

[Godskook]

Delay Death is a clever way to make a squishy villain incredibly tanky in a tryndamere-style fashion(assuming you know about LoL). Dispel becomes very dangerous, but you'll definitely survive the mailman/ubercharger.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Didn't we just have this thread where I mentioned six digit hp in my

[Greenish]

You know, if you put a level 4 Dwarven Barbarian with Improved Toughness who has a 20 Constitution with average hitpoints (6.5 per level with max at level 1) next to the lieutenant, and have him Rage, he'd have 63 hitpoints that you could siphon.

Then give the players XP as if they had defeated the mook as well.

That's perfectly legitimate and within the rules.Except for the potion of maximized vampiric touch.

[faceroll]

That's exactly how it went down, actually. The fight went exactly as I had planned; the Voidmind Bardbarian (former party member turned mindflayer slave) shot the Factotum up something nasty in the first few rounds, the Dire Bat successfully bullrushed the PsyWar to the ground, the Gravetouched Ghoul Divine Mind (also former party member turned slavering undead) did absolutely nothing aside from distract the Ardent from the real target: The Ranger.

After they eliminated two lesser threats, and only the Dire Bat and the Ranger were left, the party was down a Factotum (dead from being full attacked with Vicious Shortswords), the remaining three party members (Ardent, PsyWar, Crusader) retreated up the stairs. The PsyWar tried to charge the Ranger, but he Counter Charge'd him off the edge of the second floor, causing some falling damage. The bat rushed in to finish him off, but a timely Vigor saved him. The Crusader went toe-to-toe with the Ranger, but because of the 20% miss chance, couldn't hit him, and when he did, half of it went to the bat.

The bat, thanks to the Warbeast/Magebred templates had Evasion and kept saving against the Ardent's attempts to Energy Pulse everything. The PsyWar ran out of PP and eventually resorted to grappling the bat while Expansioned. The Crusader went down to a flurry of attacks from the Ranger, and the Ardent shot off a desperate Mind Thrust at the Ranger. He failed his save, and the bat took enough damage from the Shield Other ring to bring it to negatives, leaving only the Ranger left alive.

The Ardent and the PsyWar rallied, and just barely managed to bring down the Ranger before he was able to take a full-round action to refresh his maneuvers.

All in all, a successful end to the campaign! Two party members lived, and two of them died in the attempt. They died well, though, and everyone left happy.

Thanks for your help, playground!

Damn, sounds good.

[Slipperychicken]

I have heard of DMs, on occasion, simply ignoring hit points in favor of protracted combat, and just letting them die when they think the PC's have had enough.

[TroubleBrewing]

That's exactly what I wanted to avoid, actually.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Delay Death is a clever way to make a squishy villain incredibly tanky in a tryndamere-style fashion(assuming you know about LoL). Dispel becomes very dangerous, but you'll definitely survive the mailman/ubercharger.This, among other things, is why the mailman has Greater Dispel Magic as a spell known, of course.

OP: Sounds like a great fight. Gods help your PCs when they encounter the BBEG.

[TroubleBrewing]

They won't, actually. That was the conclusion of the campaign. Out of the four players, one of them is moving out of state and two of them go back to school. My other gaming group comes online at the end of August, so I have until then to plan for the next game. I'll start another thread once that one gets going, as I'm sure I'll need suggestions.

EDIT: Screw it. I'm starting the BBEG tonight as I don't have anything sleepier to do. Here's the thread if you're interested. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210249)