"Snips, Snails, & Dragon Tales" Discussion - Poll + Unmarked Spoilers [Archive]

The Giant

2011-08-04, 12:05 AM

This is an all-purpose thread for discussion of the content of Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales. It is intended for people who already have the book and have read it; as a result, you do not need to mark spoilers in this thread.

If you want to discuss the shipping or arrival of the book, continue to use this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205184) for the time being.

In addition to the general discussion, I am gathering data regarding what people thought of the book's content, particularly in regard to which sections you thought were good enough to support an entire book sometime in the future. While the poll allows you to choose as many responses as you like, I would ask that people choose no more than three responses; otherwise, the data will not be as useful as it could be.

Keep in mind that this poll will be non-binding, as I may choose to do products that don't necessarily "win" the poll. Also, try to ignore the difficulties in pre-ordering when answering; assume that by the time I announce the book, it's already sitting in a warehouse printed.

PLEASE ONLY VOTE IF YOU HAVE READ SNIPS, SNAILS, AND DRAGON TALES!

EDIT: Poll has been edited to remove the "Prequel" option, as I felt people were always going to vote that rather than give me a fair judgment of their favorite parts of the book. Also, killed the "Unlikely to buy anything" option, because they can simply not vote.

Mutant Sheep

2011-08-04, 12:16 AM

This is an all-purpose thread for discussion of the content of Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales. It is intended for people who already have the book and have read it; as a result, you do not need to mark spoilers in this thread.

If you want to discuss the shipping or arrival of the book, continue to use this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205184) for the time being.

In addition to the general discussion, I am gathering data regarding what people thought of the book's content, particularly in regard to which sections you thought were good enough to support an entire book sometime in the future. While the poll allows you to choose as many responses as you like, I would ask that people choose no more than three responses; otherwise, the data will not be as useful as it could be.
Yay spoiler thread! Soon Elan and the Beanstalk shall be examined so thoughly any hints will be discovered and seen, then incredibly over analysed! This is a great day for the world! So was yesterday I guess...
I think the Mummy Queen and the rest of Julio Scoundrel could be a book, because its Julio Scoundrel! Wait, not supposed to say it yet and wait for you to set up poll., Oh, there's the poll, top of page *facepalm*

The Giant

2011-08-04, 12:21 AM

Mutant Sheep

2011-08-04, 12:23 AM

trebledawson

2011-08-04, 12:46 AM

Zevox

2011-08-04, 12:51 AM

Mine arrived this afternoon, and I've already read through it.

I loved the "Invaders from the Fourth Dimension" story. Even having never played 4e or read any of its rules, seeing the two editions clash was very amusing, and just having read a few edition arguments online enabled me to get some of the jokes about 4e itself, plus of course some were self-explanatory (all their abilities being short-range, for instance, or 4e Roy abusing his ability to make others do things on his turn).

However, to address the poll, as a result of that very lack of familiarity with 4e, I'd be unlikely to buy a book centered around the 4e Order. It was the clash between them and their 3.5e counterparts that fueled my enjoyment of that story the most, not the 4e jokes alone.

I also greatly enjoyed the "Stick Tales" section. "Greenhilt: Prince of Denmark" was my favorite part of the entire book, and easily the one that elicited the most laughs out of me (which is a bit surprising, since I've never seen/read Hamlet, but I guess I know enough of it from other things referencing it to get most of the parodies anyway, and of course all the jokes that don't require knowledge of the original). "Elan and the Beanstalk" was pretty good too. The other two a little less so, though I think in "Goldenleaf's" case its brevity is as much responsible for that as anything - hard to get as many laughs as the others when the story is only two and a half pages. But that's not to say I didn't like them either, as I definitely did.

Anyway, for those, I would buy a book of stories of that sort.

The Dragon Magazine stuff was amusing, in the way the Dungeon Crawlin' Fools era strips were. Not much to say there, though I fear the fact that I never read the magazine and am not really familiar with its history caused some of the jokes of the final few strips to be lost on me (for instance, I didn't get the joke of the uncensored version of that Mr. Potato Head panel at all).

The Julio Scoundrel stuff... eh. I found myself mostly happy that it was short. Not that it was bad, but it didn't entertain me the way the other parts did. Wouldn't buy a book based on that I'm afraid.

Random observation: in black and white, Lien and short-hair Haley are nearly indistinguishable when not in outfits they usually wear. I thought Haley was the girl in "Goldenleaf" for the couple of panels before Lien identified herself by name.

Zevox

The Giant

2011-08-04, 01:12 AM

(for instance, I didn't get the joke of the uncensored version of that Mr. Potato Head panel at all).

Appropriate references: Superman II (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081573/) and Peter Adkison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Adkison).

Explained-until-the-humor-is-gone-version:
In Superman II, evil General Zod's most famous line is, "Kneel before Zod, son of Jor-El!" demanding that Superman kneel before him in allegiance. Since WOTC was founded by Adkison, or "Adki's Son," the potato, or Spud, is commanding him to kneel before him, satirizing Hasbro's subjugation of the previously independent WOTC. And yes, it isn't funny at all if one didn't recognize that the moment it was seen.

Zevox

2011-08-04, 01:26 AM

Appropriate references: Superman II (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081573/) and Peter Adkison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Adkison).

Explained-until-the-humor-is-gone-version:
In Superman II, evil General Zod's most famous line is, "Kneel before Zod, son of Jor-El!" demanding that Superman kneel before him in allegiance. Since WOTC was founded by Adkison, or "Adki's Son," the potato, or Spud, is commanding him to kneel before him, satirizing Hasbro's subjugation of the previously independent WOTC. And yes, it isn't funny at all if one didn't recognize that the moment it was seen.
Yeah, lack of familiarity with any of that would be why I didn't get the joke I'm afraid. Oh well, there was plenty of great stuff I did enjoy anyway. :smallsmile:

Zevox

Asarlai

2011-08-04, 01:29 AM

Several are appealing, but gotta go for Mr. Julio Scoundrél.

Katana_Geldar

2011-08-04, 01:31 AM

Giant, I have to say now there's only one book that has my vote: a prequel book on the Linear Guild.

DreadArchon

2011-08-04, 01:35 AM

Thank you for the Potato-Head joke explanation, I didn't get it either.

Poll:
I wouldn't buy much of the 4th Dimension stuff, but I answered that and "prequel." If I could change my answer I'd add Sticktales. But actually, I would like to see something with one-off joke strips that don't fit the main story (like the Dragon strips) if you ever build up a stock of ideas. (I might go for books of the main OOTS cast illustrated like the art page at the end of the Scoundrel story, though!)

Book Spoilers:
Wow this was an awesome book. :smallbiggrin:

The back cover was the first thing I read, and it was funnier than I was expecting. That was a good start.

The snail motif on the covers is fun. I hope that guy shows up in the main comic someday. Also, I predict him to be one of the "sides" that is after the Gates... :smalltongue:

The joke on the copyright page is cute.

The Scoundrel story was my least favorite part of the book, but I didn't hate it. And hey, it all got better from there! Rock on!

"In the Realm of the Dragon" was pretty funny.

I greatly enjoyed about 2/3 of the Dragon strips and bonuses (the rest were just OK), especially Psteve! I laughed to the point of pain a few times in this section and completely forgot the Scoundrel chapter existed until I came to the forums. :smallbiggrin:

Edition Wars has a limited scope, but this chapter is even better than the previous at some points. The Commander's Strike jokes are worth the cost of the book by themselves. And of course, there is the Zombie Hooker page, and Edward Cullen fighting 2 Durkons. :smallamused:

The Sticktales are less consistent, but fun overall. I do like that there is a lot of potential for future material of that sort.

The Giant

2011-08-04, 01:51 AM

Giant, I have to say now there's only one book that has my vote: a prequel book on the Linear Guild.

Actually, I think I am going to remove the prequel option, as it is muddying the intent of the poll. The goal here is to determine what parts of the book people liked the best, not for people to choose my next product.

The chances of additional prequels are very high, but there are issues of timing that prevent certain backstories from being told before specific facts have been revealed in the online comic. Therefore, publishing another type of book first will not actually affect whether I publish additional prequels or not.

Also, please: Do not vote in the poll if you have not read Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales. That defeats the point of asking which part you liked enough to buy again.

The Giant

2011-08-04, 01:57 AM

But actually, I would like to see something with one-off joke strips that don't fit the main story (like the Dragon strips) if you ever build up a stock of ideas.

This isn't in the poll because it's simply not going to happen. As I indicated in the commentary, coming up with random unconnected gaming jokes page after page was harder for me than writing a story, and I have no interest in trying to crank out an entire book of that.

NerfTW

2011-08-04, 10:33 AM

But it's Mr. Potato Head. He IS funny. He is Funny incarnate. It is funnier with words though.It is supposed to be Mr. Potato head right? or am I blind to the reference?

And since some people might not get the full joke, Mr. Potato Head is a Hasbro product.

Anarion

2011-08-04, 10:53 AM

Just got mine last night. It was awesome :smallbiggrin:

For the poll, I picked that I would buy anything that the Giant releases, but I'll go on record as stating that Stick Tales was the best part of the book for me. Hamlet in particular was done spectacularly, and I burst out laughing when I saw the flumphs as Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. That was also a neat trick to prevent resurrection at the end, as I was sure leading up to it that the Giant was going to subvert the ending by reviving everyone.

The Julio Scoundrel section really impressed me artistically. After reading the Giant's commentary, I went back through and just looked at the panel layout without reading any dialogue to see how the Giant was trying to set it up, and I think it worked out mostly very well. My one comment there was that I think the discussions on the airship could have benefited from action going on in the background. For example, while Julio was discussing jumping down to the pyramid, there could have been multiple crew members fighting the horuses (horusi?) all over the ship.

Also (and I'm sure you can see by my avatar that I'm a bit biased) I WANT A DUSKPONY!

tmacdevitt

2011-08-04, 02:11 PM

Thank you for explaining Hamlet to me. I was always to intimidated to dive into due to its length.

The stick tales are like a cross between fractured fairy tales and Marvel presents. It's a winner as a stand alone.

MoonCat

2011-08-04, 02:34 PM

First off, brava, this was excellent, I'm incredibly happy to see the book out, and it is spectacular.

Julio was interesting as a parody of comic books, but I wouldn't be interested in seeing more of it, as a parody of the same thing again seems a risk to just rehash some of the genuinely amusing jokes in this one.

The Giant's sketch art interested me, I've only ever seen it in Five Foot Steps and Nale and Thog's drawing, so I thought that was cool. Nothing else to say really.

Realm of The Dragon was very funny, especially since I recognized (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html) them from before. I actually quite like the black and white single strip versions with NPC characters, this and the dirt farmers was great.

Dragon Tales, highlight of the book, I loved them dearly (not just because the color made it very easy to read, which is a blessing with my bad eyesight). Even if many jokes I didn't understand because of my being an utter DnD newb, and the only game I've ever played being 4e at that. I loved the occasional references to the webcomic (you're invisible!), and enjoyed that the strips were really about showing their personality instead of plot (which I'd hate online, but getting to see more interactions and conversations in book format where I don't have to wait, a whole strip devoted to it is quite nice).The ending was sweet, even if I couldn't figure out any of the references except for WoTC. Thanks for supplying the alternate panels by the way!

Invaders from The Fourth Edition Dimension, that was allright. In a book of snips and such it was nice, even if I really had no idea what was going on part of the time (it was really game based, so I got lost a bit), but a whole book devoted to them seems like a waste of your time and work. I wouldn't mind seeing them show up in a black and white strip in a compilation (like the dirt farmers or the Dragon Empire) though. Best part of that section was the panel where they destroyed the other games, I laughed long and hard at the idea of playing some dreadful first person shooter and having Belkar pop up with two blades about to stab me, and felt utter empathy for the poor chessplayer who had TWO Elans singing encouragement to him (Roys probably told Elans that they needed to help him win the game to achieve the proper effect). That was great, excellent game choices there Giant.

StickTales I loved, especially Greenhilt, although I truly loved Goldenleaf as well. Good choices in parodies and story tellers (imagine a story by V guys. I think I'd fall in love.) What is expecially awesome is that it technically counts as part of the continuity (which means that on Read-OoTS-Cover-To-Cover-With-Only-Half-An-Hour-On-The-Computer-Necessary-Day (anniversary of when I started reading OoTS) I get to include part of this book! Yays!)

I liked this book a lot, enjoyed most of it, definitely support doing more with some of them if you run out of words on the commentary pages, great book. Well worth the wait and cost.

Just some other stuff, liked the list of what was and wasn't in the book, the constant Jones and Rodriguez appearances, the Forewoard by Xykon, and I think the first time I've seen a drawing of the Giant smiling.

-MoonCat

Shott

2011-08-04, 04:25 PM

I was very impressed with the book. I especially enjoyed the 4th Edition and Stick Tales. It was nice seeing some non-canon strips that still flowed as a story.

DreadArchon

2011-08-04, 04:41 PM

Julio was interesting as a parody of comic books, but I wouldn't be interested in seeing more of it, as a parody of the same thing again seems a risk to just rehash some of the genuinely amusing jokes in this one.
This sums up my thoughts on the Julio comic more clearly than I did.

Realm of The Dragon was very funny, especially since I recognized (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html) them from before.
Ooh, thanks, I missed that!

I wouldn't mind seeing them show up in a black and white strip in a compilation (like the dirt farmers or the Dragon Empire) though.
I second this. This would be the best way to handle them now that they exist, I think.

ss49

2011-08-04, 05:17 PM

Well, I'll vote when I finish, but I love the shoutout to "What's New with Phil and Dixie"!

ETA: And, of course, the later nod to more of the back page denizens, although I only recognized Fin and Wormy. I still have a few of those ooooold Dragons....

AgentofOdd

2011-08-04, 06:15 PM

Got the book around 7 hours ago, and just finished reading it. :smallbiggrin:

Have to say, I'd definitely prefer to have another anthology. That way one gets a little bit of everything. A story following the 4th edition OotS would also be nice, as long as it isn't a simple retelling of the webcomic with a 4E twist. And last, but not least, more tales from the public domain would also be cool.

DreadPirateDB

2011-08-04, 08:02 PM

I simply HAD to register, specifically to write the following sentence:

The Order of the Stick interpretation of Hamlet was quite possibly the most amazing thing I have ever read, ever. And I've read House of Leaves.

I agree that was brilliant! I loved all the bit characters getting cameos, and Xykon Xlaudius getting killed by Norwegians.

Velaryon

2011-08-04, 08:35 PM

I got the book yesterday and immediately read all the way through it. There was not a single thing between the front and back cover that I didn't enjoy.

I thought the Julio Scoundrél story was fun, and I enjoy the pulp-fiction feel of the story. I don't think it's as good as the main strip of course, but I would buy further Scoundrél stories.

The Dragon strips were pretty cool, though I am also one of those people who needed the joke in #358 explained to me. I caught the Zod reference and figured that Mr. Potato Head was representative of Hasbro, but I didn't know who Adkison was so that part went right over my head. Now that I get it, it's much funnier than the version that ran in the magazine (thanks for sharing the print version of the panel though, Giant!)

My favorites of the dragon strips are actually the bonus strips, like Psteve and Read It and Weep. #356 also cracked me up.

Invaders From the Fourth Dimension was awesome, and contains some of my favorite moments in the entire book. However, like Zevox, I would be far less interested in the further adventures of the 4e versions of the OOTS. I wouldn't get most of the system-related jokes, and while I might read it anyway, it wouldn't be the same for me.

Stick Tales was also excellent, though I was surprised to find myself agreeing with most of Belkar's objections to the others' stories. I wish this section had been longer, and would definitely like to see more of these. I'd prefer another collection of briefer story adaptations over a longer story, but both would, I'm sure, be excellent.

As to the poll, here are the three things I voted for, arranged in order of my preference:

1. Another anthology like this one, with various unrelated stuff
2. Further StickTales, either as a collection of stories or a longer adaptation
3. A collection of Julio Scoundrél comic book tales

Overall, I definitely enjoyed this book. I feel that it's the best money I've spent on OOTS since Start of Darkness (though I really do love my Zombies T-shirt).

DreadArchon

2011-08-04, 10:09 PM

Maybe we could combine items and have Sticktales in the Julio Scoundrel art style and/or sketchy art style.

I just think it'd be cool to have official representations of existing characters in modified art forms, rather than random new characters or a very limited selection of existing side characters.

Skavensrule

2011-08-04, 11:51 PM

For the record I would almost certanly purchase ANY OoTS book released but of the choices offered I enjoyed the "Stick Tales" the best so thats what I voted for. I didn't realize I could vote for more than one choice at the time, but I am still sticking with that answer.

I have been wanting to find out what happened in most of the dragon strips for years, particularly since #475 mentioned a strip from Dragon that I had missed. I had issue 358 of Dragon that I had dug out and reread while waiting for the book to arrive last week so I recognized the changed panel right away and I like the uncensored version way better even though I didn't know who Adkison was until I read the extended explanation, I did catch the Superman II referance. So Thank you Rich for allowing those of us who missed some/most/all of these wonderful strips to relive the carefree days of the early Order.

Julio Scroundrel: I liked the story as a one-shot but would not miss never seeing him again as a main character. Loved the hand-drawn examples but would much rather have a longer story in future books than the more intensive art style. There used to be some links to some art by Rich that was in a realistic style in a thread but those links don't work anymore.:smallfrown:

Fourth Edition Dimension: Loved the story and the jokes even though I have never played 4th ED (never played 2nd ED either) Like Zevox has said it is real easy to catch on to most of the jokes even if some are surely going over my head. But like the Julio story this is best as a one-shot.

Stick Tales: I can't say the number of ways I enjoyed these strips. My only regret is that there are not more of them.
Now to reread the book again.

And Thank you Rich! You wonderful Giant.

tmacdevitt

2011-08-04, 11:55 PM

I would like to mention that the art differences in Scoundrel were subtle, but nice. Any chance of seeing thicker limbs and drop shadows in the strip?

ss49

2011-08-05, 01:53 AM

More Julio Scoundrél? Sure, as long as it isn't too icky (sex with that mummy, bleah!)

4th Edition? Maybe, but the story presented made fun of 4E repetitiveness. I'm sure RB could write them well, but I don't want it to detract from the current story. (Maybe as OOTS Book 2.)

StickTales? Sure. Longer ones, too.

Anthology? Best of all worlds. Would've voted twice for it if I could. (Hush)

Non-OOTS- Big possibilities. Least known. But I'm open to this.

No to the last. I didn't think it was a serious choice, but the poll results surprised me.

The Giant

2011-08-05, 02:42 AM

I would like to mention that the art differences in Scoundrel were subtle, but nice. Any chance of seeing thicker limbs and drop shadows in the strip?

Not likely. The art style on Julio took about 2-3 times longer per page, and that was in black & white. Creating the shading in color would be even more time-consuming. I would only consider it for a project like this, where I finished the art for it before anyone knew the book even existed.

pendell

2011-08-05, 09:56 AM

Mea Culpa. Mea Maxima Culpa.

I voted in the poll BEFORE I read the Giant's strongly worded request to wait until the book has actually arrived.

Is there any way to cancel or undo the vote?

I will now proceed to say 5 Our Thors, and 4 Hail Tiamats in penance ...

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Ted The Bug

2011-08-05, 10:27 AM

Quick question: Are the Dragon strips the only strips in colour, or are some of the other bonuses colour as well?

Blisstake

2011-08-05, 10:42 AM

Quick question: Are the Dragon strips the only strips in colour, or are some of the other bonuses colour as well?

The Dragon strips and bonus Dragon strips are in color. Everything else is greyscale.

Anarion

2011-08-05, 10:57 AM

Not likely. The art style on Julio took about 2-3 times longer per page, and that was in black & white. Creating the shading in color would be even more time-consuming. I would only consider it for a project like this, where I finished the art for it before anyone knew the book even existed.

Huh. Would this work maybe as a special style for end of chapter splash pages? I really liked the shading in the Julio Scoundrel section and would like to see the Order drawn that way at least once. Or, if not for the online comic, perhaps as a bonus page for the next book?

Zelthax

2011-08-05, 02:30 PM

I have received and read SSDT, and enjoyed every minute. Here are a couple of brief responses, should anyone wish to hear a slightly different feedback than what's already here:

I enjoyed Julio Scoundrel for it's wackiness that was subtly different than OOTS main strip material. It did take me by surprise, but I have to say that, given an option, I would probably buy a book of these tales. I would prefer to see the OOTS storyline come to a close first, though.

Concerning 4e:
I actually was led to casual D&D because of this comic. I am a fairly knowledgeable general gamer, so only the D&D specific jokes, things like saving throws and skill checks, were what eluded me. I decided to pick up the pastime with a couple of friends who were in my situation as well. Naturally, we ended up picking up 4e, as it's what's being sold, and we weren't in any gaming circles who could teach us 3.5.

So I actually have never played and 3 or 3.5e D&D. To me, the 4e stuff was hilarious in and of itself, not just the clash between the editions!

I guess, then, all of the above was to say that I would be first in line if you released a small adventure concerning our 4e heroes.

Tvtyrant

2011-08-05, 08:43 PM

I voted for the 4E comics, but I also love the scoundrel comics. Both are amazing! They were also more action based then OOTS normally is (other then the siege arc) and proved that stick figure action comics are possible to me.

Fitzclowningham

2011-08-06, 01:56 PM

I'm going to reread the book before commenting on it, but I do want to say now that I find 4e uninteresting in general. That's not to say that Rich didn't succeed in the 4th Dimension, or that he couldn't succeed in something else, but the game just isn't as interesting as any of the previous editions. I like real differentiation between classes (and therefore characters), and find healing surges and all of that absurd. "Video gamey" indeed.

Oh, and absolutely *thrilled* to hear about more prequels. Will buy as many as you make, Rich. I'd wait on line overnight in a blizzard to get my copy of Solt Lorkyurg, Unremarkable Spice Trader Volume I: Infancy.

Cheiromancer

2011-08-06, 04:12 PM

I don't understand the "Sean Bean" reference in 'Elan and the Beanstalk'. Can someone please explain it to me?

Edit: Thanks for the death reel, Lord Jadawin!

Deuterium Dawn

2011-08-06, 07:04 PM

I don't understand the "Sean Bean" reference in 'Elan and the Beanstalk'. Can someone please explain it to me?

I'm guessing that?

Hiro Protagonest

2011-08-06, 08:55 PM

Decent explanation in the 4e section for why Roy isn't a warblade. He could just multiclass into it, though.

I voted for the adventures of 4e OOTS (I want to see Miko as an avenger) and a collection of Julio Scoundrél comic book tales.

MoonCat

2011-08-06, 09:10 PM

I'm guessing that?

Who is Sean Bean?

Deuterium Dawn

2011-08-06, 09:16 PM

Who is Sean Bean?

Some actor I think. Wiki says he was Boromir in Lotr.

Occasional Sage

2011-08-06, 09:18 PM

Who is Sean Bean?

Boromir. Ned Stark. Other good roles, and some mediocre ones.

MoonCat

2011-08-06, 09:22 PM

Some actor I think. Wiki says he was Boromir in Lotr.

Oh yeah! that dude who looks vaguely like Chuck Norris!

Back on topic, the clothing in Greenhilt was interesting, as nothing like that had been in the comic before, IIRC, so that was cool. It seemed to have odd proportions though, the women seemed to shrink in comparison (the Queen in particular) to their clothing, and Shojoius had a similar effect with his clothes as well. Not quite sure what caused it though, since having ball gowns going only to their ankles ought to make the women seem larger. Hmm, strange.

Oh hey, Queen Greenhilt has three ankles in one panel.

Lord_Jadawin

2011-08-06, 09:54 PM

Who is Sean Bean?

I'm not a big movie buff, but Sean Bean is pretty famous for playing characters that die, usually very violently. You can see a spoiler-filled bloody montage of such right here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEhtsgu6bJg) if you wish.

Giant, due to my lack of reading comprehension I only checked one answer (that I'll probably buy whatever you put out) but had I been observant enough to check multiple boxes, the StickTales compilation would have been a choice as well. Those were hilarious.

Peanut Gallery

2011-08-06, 10:09 PM

I thought StickTales was very hit and miss. Like the Beanstalk and the Red Riding Hood stories felt drab to me. All the interruptions on the Beanstalk one actually felt like they broke up the narrative a little too much. I liked a couple pieces of it: Like Elan's first ending where they lived off the beanstalk beans, or Roy going "Not again!" when he fell to his (temporary) death then getting up complaining that fall damage couldn't possibly kill him. Red Riding Hood I'm just going to write off as Haley and Belkar aren't my favorite characters and they were featured heavily so I'm unfairly biased against it.

But I loved the Hamlet story. All the cameos were pretty amazing: I realized I kinda missed Miko and I positively cheered when Therkla made her very brief appearance. I guess I'd go on but I enjoyed pretty much everything about it. I think Roy just makes a really relatable protagonist to me and his humor is always fun.

Loved the Dragon Magazine stuff. Made me all nostalgic and stuff. :smallsmile:

MoonCat

2011-08-06, 10:23 PM

But I loved the Hamlet story. All the cameos were pretty amazing: I realized I kinda missed Miko and I positively cheered when Therkla made her very brief appearance. I guess I'd go on but I enjoyed pretty much everything about it. I think Roy just makes a really relatable protagonist to me and his humor is always fun.

<looks closer at book> I had thought Therkla was Sabine! No wonder she had fangs. Wow, I like Therkla as a Player much better.

Toper

2011-08-06, 11:31 PM

Realm of The Dragon was very funny, especially since I recognized (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html) them from before. I actually quite like the black and white single strip versions with NPC characters, this and the dirt farmers was great.
Wait, the dirt farmers are in this? Why can't I find them? I'm actually wondering a teeny bit if I got a early print version or something, since it has no page numbers and a fair number of typos.

Anyway, the book is excellent. The 4th edition battle is perfect, the Dragon strips are great, and the Stick Tales are creative and funny.

Oh, by the way:

You'd be surprised how hard it is, even in this information age, to find images from magazines printed in the 1970s.
I am surprised at that, because TSR sold scanned issues 1-250 (http://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Magazine-Archive-Magazines-Electronic/dp/0786914483) on CD, and you could have just Ebayed it. (I own this, and man, they were pretty terrible for a while. But it got better.)

MoonCat

2011-08-06, 11:35 PM

Wait, the dirt farmers are in this? Why can't I find them? I'm actually wondering a teeny bit if I got a early print version or something, since it has no page numbers and a fair number of typos.

No, they're in DStP, in the same style, one black and white page with NPC characters we saw from before. And hilarious.

Fitzclowningham

2011-08-07, 01:32 AM

Thanks for the info, Toper! I have copies of something like 50-126, but would love to read the rest. Thanks for letting me know they're available. Hope it doesn't cost what it's worth.

Shadoww0lf

2011-08-07, 11:07 AM

I voted for more Stick Tales.

Julio was ok. Like the art style, but that was about it. The story felt... "off". Maybe it was just too short for my tastes.

OOTS 4D was enjoyable. I'd never played any other edition and I greatly enjoyed the ripping of 4e. I may be interested in something from this, but can't put a definitive yes or no on it.

Stick Tales was great. Easily the best part and definitely something I would spend more money on.

I bought the book for the dragon stuff. I never read the magazine, and original RPGs are a casual, newer hobby for me, but I was interested in OOTS making fun of it to the hardcore niche. There's some good stuff in there and I enjoyed it.

Oh and Xykon's preface. That was HILARIOUS.

Dreammosaic

2011-08-07, 03:10 PM

I am in the group that didn't love the Julio stuff. It wasn't bad, it just didn't do nearly as much for me as the rest of the book.

The rest was great though. Don't think I would go for a 4E book myself, thought it was perfect as it was presented. The Sticktales and another anthology got my votes. Would probably grab a Linear guild prequel book if you did so as well.

Typewriter

2011-08-07, 03:21 PM

I voted. I'll buy anything that gets put out.

The fourth Dimension was my favorite in the book, but only because of the conflict between the heroes and the 'invaders'. If it was just a focus on the fourth editioners I don't think I'd have enjoyed it as much. It would be interesting to see the 'main group' interacting with people from other realities though I understand that would require a lot of system knowledge. Seeing their opinion on Pathfinder and/or things like Exalted and WoD would be entertaining.

As I said, I'd purchase anything that gets put out but something I would love to see is a book that shows the different afterlives. Or different characters in the afterlife. One of my favorite parts of the main story so far was seeing Roy deal with all the tidbits of dying, and it would be really cool to see Miko, or the gnome Belkar killed, or any number of villains or other random NPCs in the afterlife.

Loopy777

2011-08-07, 07:45 PM

I have to say, I loved this book. As much as I keep coming back to OOTS for the story, it was great just getting wall-to-wall gags with the cast. My favorite portions were the storyline with the 4E Order, and the Sticktales.

I'd buy any and all OOTS books, and although more Sticktales is what I think I'd enjoy the most, I could see the further adventures of the 4E Order being fun. Not necessarily because of the system- I haven't played D&D since before 4E came out- but because the Alternate Universe nature of things might make for fun adventures. (You know, like having the Miko analogue replace Belkar, and then they have a one-book quest where anything can happen, since it won't affect the main storyline. It could be a lighter, more gag-oriented kind of story, since 4E offers more new rules jokes to make than 3.5E at this point.)

I especially enjoyed Roy's retelling of Hamlet, because it was so true to the original while ridiculing outrageously, and Xykon really stole the show with his scenes. (Also, Elan forcing Optimus Prime into Roy's story really got me.) Elan & The Beanstalk was also a lot of fun, since everyone kept interrupting him and he just went with their requests. (I loved the subtle "Giant in the Playground" visual pun, too.)

The Dragon Magazine strips were all good OOTS, and I'm glad to finally be able to read them. I honor them as the reason this FUN book exists.

Fiery Diamond

2011-08-07, 10:59 PM

Loved the book. Got it last night and read it all at once.

Things I liked:

1) Julio Scoundrel's comic book. Firstly, I loved the shadows and shading. It really did make it feel more actiony. If you did another Julio, I would hope to see it done in a similar fashion. Besides the art, the best part was the letters at the end, especially his "send things having to do with me fathering your kids to a different post box number" and the letter with the fan complaining that the shadows and such (which don't exist in the Stickverse) were unrealistic - that letter and its response being a hilarious parody of people complaining about your stick figure art when you deliberately chose it and are quite a capable artist. I would hope to see any future Julio include a letters section for each "issue" also. Julio was one of my votes, but without the art style and without the letters, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting.

2) The Stick Tales. It was hilarious, brilliant, and completely awesome. The whole concept of them telling stories to each other while stuck on the boat was hilarious in the first place. Then there's Elan and the Beanstalk, which was truly excellent, complete with him going along with everyone's interruptions and suggestions. Little Red Riding Hoodlum wasn't quite as good, but that's mostly because I felt sorry for the Belkar analogue. He didn't actually do anything bad but he still got messed up by Red Riding Hoodlum, the true villain of the tale. Then came Goldenleaf, which was short and sweet, and the best kind of ending ever. I wish more villains were that intelligent. Also, "No, Mr. Greenhilt, I expect you to diet" was hilarious. Finally was Greenhilt: Prince of Denmark, which was the most masterful parody of Hamlet I have ever seen. Plus, you know, it had the OoTS characters. The only thing missing: stories told by V and Durkon. I totally want to see what kind of story V would come up with. If V was really into it, the tale would probably be full of complicated maneuvering and Xanatos Gambits. What tale would be chosen for that, I wonder? This was my second vote.

=My third vote was another general assortment collection=

3) Invaders from the Fourth Dimension was great, even though I only have a teensy bit of knowledge about 4E. I wouldn't want to see one of their adventures, though, because it was the interaction of the two Orders that was so interesting, and I don't have enough familiarity (or interest) in 4E to fully appreciate a comic devoted to it.

4) Dragon Comics: Reminds me of early on in OoTS. Best of all, however, was the snail. I want more of that snail. He'd make a great recurring side character, like the Flumphs.

Midnight Lurker

2011-08-08, 12:24 AM

I'd like to see more of the 4DOoTS (pronounced "fourdoots"?); at the very least it'd be nice to see them in full color. (And the 4D Linear Guild! What kind of completely-missing-the-point multiclass hybrid Frankenstein build has Nale saddled himself with?)

Kinda want a reg-OoTS story in Scoundrelvision, just for the lulz.

And more Stick Tales, oh very yes. :smallbiggrin:

Ftep

2011-08-08, 08:49 AM

... While the whole book is hilarious, there is a gag in the 4th Edition section that's pretty much worth buying the book for by itself.

Please tell me you're talking about Belkar's comment regarding 4e Roy's facial hair. Because that seriously made me laugh out loud, and was certainly the dirtiest joke in OotS since this last panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html).

Also, has the word a**h***s appeared anywhere in OotS before this book? (regarding Goldenleaf's target demographic)

Finally, did anyone else hear "The Boys are Back in Town" in their heads when the 4e and 3e OotS ganged up on all the other hobbies and activities? Completely hilarious!

Great book, Giant, I thoroughly enjoyed it all! My favorites were the Dragon comics, 4e Invaders, and Greenhilt, Prince of Denmark.

Nimrod's Son

2011-08-08, 10:00 AM

Also, has the word a**h***s appeared anywhere in OotS before this book? (regarding Goldenleaf's target demographic)
It sure has. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html)

Hileria

2011-08-08, 10:25 AM

Quick question: Are the Dragon strips the only strips in colour, or are some of the other bonuses colour as well?

The dragon strips are the only ones in color. I'd have rather seen everything in color, personally - and would have been willing to pay a premium for it.

However, I greatly enjoyed the book. My only critique with it was that in several panels (Elan's Sticktales), Mr. Burlew used a dark grey text box with black text that I found very hard to read.

Umberhulk

2011-08-08, 10:33 AM

I was half expecting to see Haley and Roy as an item in the 4e comic, along with an 'alignment doesn't matter in 4e' gag. I liked the turns in the battle and the team up at the end. I don't know how far their story line could go though

I was excited to see the Julio art style. I hope we'll see it again, even if only for special features.

Honestly though my favorite feature was the last three Dragon comics. I have found that all of the tributes Rich has written (I'm including those to Gygax and Arneson) have been quite moving.

In the future though I'd like just to see a compilation of whatever the author is most inspired to write.

MoonCat

2011-08-08, 01:03 PM

Please tell me you're talking about Belkar's comment regarding 4e Roy's facial hair. Because that seriously made me laugh out loud, and was certainly the dirtiest joke in OotS since this last panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html).

I hadn't seen that in my read through, so I went back and looked for it. I dunno, it didn't strike me as hilarious, but each to his own.

And I kind of like the goatee he had.

TheNovak

2011-08-08, 03:27 PM

Just wanted to say, I got the book a couple days ago and just finished reading it. Loved all of it, but the Invaders From the 4th Dimension story blew me away with the epicness and the humor. I'm stuck playing 4th myself despite my constant campaigning to give Pathfinder another shot, and you did a remarkably fair job of pointing out the benefits and drawbacks of each system. Very well done.

Bagelz

2011-08-08, 03:45 PM

I just finished reading and loved pretty much the whole thing.
The visual style of Julio looked great while keeping the feel of the stick figure comic.
Part of me wants to say that I wish more of it were in color, but I understand that greatly increases the cost, and I'm not sure how much more I'd pay for a book just to get it in full color.

Overall I'm very happy. Keep up the great work Mr. Burlew

Whiffet

2011-08-08, 03:46 PM

Invaders was sheer brilliance, especially since right now I'm stuck with 4E players. It's okay, but the comics showed everything I don't like about it. :smallbiggrin: Even though I liked them, I wouldn't want more comics about it.

I did love StickTales. Especially Greenhilt. I enjoyed and repeatedly read Hamlet, even though it is so depressing, so I caught all the jokes. For some reason, the line "Alas, poor Yikyik. You slew him, Horatio," had me rolling.

Anarion

2011-08-08, 04:04 PM

From reading over the comments, I'm getting the sense that Invaders from the 4th edition dimension requires a lot of rules knowledge for people to like. I chuckled mildly through the whole section and thought it was a good portrayal of many of the 4e changes (that I personally don't like). However, I've only played AD&D, 3.0, and 3.5 in actual games. My 4e knowledge is limited to a single read through the player's handbook, so I suspect that I missed a few jokes and may not have laughed as hard as other people in this thread.

In contrast, stick tales probably has the broadest demographic, since nearly everyone knows the classic fairytales and at least a bit of Shakespeare. I also really like the characters of the order portraying classic characters because it provides some insight into the core of each character's personality (e.g. Haley as red riding hood is still a thief and Roy as Hamlet still complains about how irrational the rest of the world is around him).

turkishproverb

2011-08-08, 07:50 PM

Per requests on the other thread, here is the bowdlerized version of the panel from #358. This is what actually ran in the magazine, as opposed to the version in the book, which is what was rejected. As you can see, it's not especially funny.

http://www.giantitp.com/Images/OOTSDragon358_CENSORED.gif

I saw a tiny bit of humor in the first version, if you consider that the Wizard is being subjugated to someone with that look on his face.

A thousand times worse than the other one.

Personally, I'm not sure which parts were my favorite, but I'd like to see a bit more of most of them. I'm not as confident I'd want full book length chunks of any of them all together though. I could see a few pages with any of them showing up at the same time.

I'd like to see the "dimension" thing expanded sometime though> I can just picture the reactio nto the "Whitebox" OOTS.

Belkar: He's a HOBBIT!?!
V: Why do I..the other me...have a sword?
Then the invariable who's on first parody over WB Durkon's class.

Gift Jeraff

2011-08-08, 07:51 PM

Got it today. Loved it. My only complaint would be that the greyscale made Lien look a lot like haircut Haley, so I was disoriented for a bit.

I voted for Julio, StickTales, and "anything." Though I actually enjoyed Edition Wars more, I feel that was due more to its length, and I feel Julio has a lot of potential.

I absolutely loved StickTales. I would love to see stories told by Durkon, Blackwing, Xykon, the MitD, Thog, and Sabine. :smallbiggrin:

Sylthia

2011-08-08, 08:09 PM

It probably wasn't intentional, but the actual act of them censoring the Mr. Potatohead strip made me laugh.

The Glyphstone

2011-08-08, 08:28 PM

I'd like to see more of the 4DOoTS (pronounced "fourdoots"?); at the very least it'd be nice to see them in full color. (And the 4D Linear Guild! What kind of completely-missing-the-point multiclass hybrid Frankenstein build has Nale saddled himself with?)

Ironically, Nale would probably actually be a Bard, since it's the only class that allows unlimited MC feats. It being a Leader also fits with him.

Nevereatcars

2011-08-08, 09:13 PM

I originally thought that Sean Bean was just some famous person that nobody liked. But Boromir and Ned Stark are much more epicker.

CloakedDancer

2011-08-08, 09:40 PM

(1) I wasn't the biggest fan of the Julio Scoundrel story. I thought the style change for the art was fantastic, and I appreciated the parody aspect of it; however, I really didn't like the story itself. I honestly had more fun reading about how you approached the art than I did reading the story itself. (2)The strips from Dragon magazine were great fun to read. I really appreciated all the references at the end to the old strips. (3) I loved Edition Wars, mostly because of the ending montage of them attacking the other hobbies...I mean worlds... but also because the jokes about 4e were great. Well done. (4) I enjoyed Stick Tales. I would love to see more classics given the OOTS treatment. It's a fun diversion from the main strip.

mini_magician

2011-08-08, 11:11 PM

I wish "I would buy anything" hadn't been an option. Most the people that bought this book are probably going to buy almost anything The Giant puts out. I felt obligated to pick I'd buy anything, because I will, but I only got to vote for two things...

Kareasint

2011-08-09, 05:27 AM

This was a good book not only because of the comics. Some of the commentary was interesting to read (especially the comparison of 3.5e to 4e).

The rapid shot page of the 3.5e/4e team going after the other "diversions" was awesome.

OnlineDM

2011-08-09, 08:19 AM

bengator

2011-08-09, 10:12 AM

Enjoyed the book. I loved the dragon cartoons, especially the last few being an old guy who recognizes the old cartoons.

Not so into the 4th ed stuff, as i am an old school first edition kind of guy. While the 3rd ed jokes when you first started the strip were funny just because of the 4th wall stuff, the subtle differences between the editions is somewhat lost on me.

I know the one off stuff is the hardest to write, but great things aren't always easy! You have a remarkable sense of humor, and it really shines through on the one time gags. I'd love to see a book of those developed over time where no one knows you are working on it so there are no deadlines and you can create them as they come to you.

Regardless, loved the work and keep it coming! And more from the vampiric snail!

WeLoveFireballs

2011-08-09, 01:40 PM

Stick Tales was great! And while I would probably buy anything you put out (milky's manure not included) I would be more excited about Stick Tales.

And in conclusion:
SWARM OF PUFFINS!

jidasfire

2011-08-09, 02:39 PM

Just got my copy yesterday, and I loved it. Particular things:

Xykon's preface was both hilarious and absolutely horrifying. Maybe it's just because it's been a long time since he was in the comic, but I was quite glad to hear a bit of his voice again.

Julio Scoundrel was a lot of fun. I think it would be fun to see more of his adventures, but probably not every single one, as they might run together after a little while. It would be enjoyable to check in with him from time to time, though.

I am now a huge fan of the Snail. I realize the main story of the Order has moved on a bit from the early wacky days, and it might be hard to bring him back, but if he finds his way into another story, such as one of these anthologies, it would make me very happy.

The Order from the 4th Dimension was fun, though I don't really see it having legs to keep going, as it's basically the same characters with some slightly different jokes. That said, I kinda wondered if Belkar's deaths in that story would count as his death prophecy (no, for the love of all that's holy, please don't debate it, I'm not serious).

The Sticktales were a lot of fun, particularly Hamlet. The Flumphs as Rosencrantz and Guildenstern was probably the best bit, along with Optimus Prime showing up during the play. Only complaint about the tales is that Durkon alone didn't get one! Even in the side material, he gets short-changed!

That said, lots of fun all around. I love the actual plot of OOTS, but once in awhile, something like this is incredible fun, and I would pretty much buy anything like it.

Zevox

2011-08-09, 03:02 PM

Only complaint about the tales is that Durkon alone didn't get one! Even in the side material, he gets short-changed!
Not true - V also didn't get to tell a story. Only the humans and Belkar.

Zevox

MoonCat

2011-08-09, 03:48 PM

Not true - V also didn't get to tell a story. Only the humans and Belkar.

Zevox

Can you imagine a story by Vaarsuvius? Here, I'll script it.

Haley: Now it's your turn V!

V: :smalleek: I... what? No!

(Elan is pushing V towards the center)

Elan: Aw, come on V! Your turn!

Belkar: :smallamused: Nah, leave V alone. Ears couldn't string two coherent words together anyway.

V::smallmad: (rant at Belkar about being hypocritical and incorrect)

Belkar: :smallamused: Well v, if you're so brilliant, you'll have to demonstrate it to us now, wont you?

Roy::smallannoyed: Oh gods.

V: :smallfurious: ...fine

V: :smallannoyed: There was, once in an unspecified time period intended to be as unclear as possible to avoid anachronisms by inferior authors, which has now become the initial few sentences for infantile fictional tales to use in...

(all black panel with white lettering)

Two and a half hours later...

(Elan and Belkar are passed out, Elan leaning on Haley with Banjo in his hand and sucking his thumb, Belkar flat on his back with Mr scruffy on top of him. Durkon is awake but has woozy eyes and Haley is reading a hair magazine. Roy is sitting straight upright looking annoyed. He has a stopwatch in his hand. It is not ticking.)

V: and therefore, in the basest sense of 'happily', considering the multiple plot holes left behind and with considerations towards the aforementioned undefined time period, the few remembered characters that the typical author is narrow minded enough to consider 'main' may possibly have a 'happy' finish to this section of-

Roy: :smallannoyed: Alright, very good V, but story time is over. EVERYONE WAKE UP.

Durkon: Whuh? Is tha tale finished ye'?

Elan: <yawns> But I don't WANT to go to school today Mommy.

Haley: :smalleek: What? No, great story V. I was totally into it. Honest. Not listening would be wrong.

Belkar: :smallmad: Ugh, FINALLY! Hey Ears, you might want to prune down on that, just overcompensating for your inability to talk intelligently once doesn't change the circumstances. :smallamused:

V: :smallfurious: ...I loathe you.

Roy: :smallannoyed: Okay, now everyone GO TO BED. We're landing in Sandsedge tomorrow and I want everyone sleeping properly.

Belkar: :smallannoyed: Some of us were until you woke us up, BrainCell.

WeLoveFireballs

2011-08-09, 06:09 PM

But I do think that Durkon's tales of Thor could be interesting if you want to include those in the next batch of Stick Tales. And I do remember the Giant mentioning he wanted to include more of Thor in Dungeon Crawlin Fools so by all means throw them in if you get any ideas! (and yes I am saying there will be more sticktales like it's a foregone conclusion but come on there is a 47.9% chance it will be)

Whiffet

2011-08-09, 06:26 PM

Can you imagine a story by Vaarsuvius? Here, I'll script it.
-snip-

And this, my friends, shows that MoonCat is far superior to the rest of us. We have no choice but to despair and go to sleep tonight knowing we can never hope to achieve MoonCat's level of brilliance.

MoonCat

2011-08-09, 06:33 PM

And this, my friends, shows that MoonCat is far superior to the rest of us. We have no choice but to despair and go to sleep tonight knowing we can never hope to achieve MoonCat's level of brilliance.

:smallredface: Aw, thanks. I actually had it rattling around my head ever since I read StickTales, I'm glad I got to share it.

Hiro Protagonest

2011-08-09, 07:02 PM

Loved the book. Stick Tales, Julio and the Dragon Magazine strips were great.

I actually didn't like the 4e strips, but that's probably because my introduction to D&D was:

2003 - Learn 3rd edition; never got a chance to play much
2009 - Discover OotS, love it
2010 - Start playing D&D regularly with 4e

So, I'm mostly a 4e player, and I was surprised to see some of the vehemence about the system in this book. I expected jokes about the rules, but I didn't realize Rich felt so strongly negatively toward the game (and yes, I read the explanation in the book).

I liked the end of that section, where the editions team up to kill off other hobbies. But I was bummed to see that the 4e stuff was handled as a literal edition war, with the OotSers fighting their counterparts rather than just meeting and being confused by them with hilarity ensuing.

Some of the jokes were still funny here, but the tone was off-putting for someone like me. I wouldn't want to read more of that.

Keep in mind all the stuff about wizards being bad was said by Vaarsuvius, a shallow wizard who wants ultimate power and doesn't take into consideration the fact that if you spend decades on magic, you'd be a mid- to high-level wizard, compared to if you just spend some time in a bad neighborhood you'd be a low-level expert with rogue-type skills.

The other points said were spot on. Realism of the fact that you can only use a certain thing once per day, no matter what the conditions (because really, conditions are the only possible explanation, and that was blown when 4e Haley managed to knock out giant Durkon), inability to use tactics that would make a significant difference over other tactics, etc.

Keep in mind, I like 4e. I prefer 3.5, but if I got a chance to play a full 4e campaign (instead of just those one-shots and mini-campaigns that last only one adventure at the game shops), I would.

Dr. Magic

2011-08-09, 09:23 PM

My thoughts on the book, after letting it sit in my head for a night.

1: Julio Scoundrel - I feel it worked. Fun, funny, actiony, and well drawn. I could do with a Julio Scoundrel back-up in every book from now on.

2: Dragon Comics - I think these were probably a product of their time, and probably a LOT funnier if you play D&D - which I don't. They were nice, but the lack of a continuing story made it hard for me to focus on them.

3: 3.5E vs 4E - however, when the same group of characters got to a continuing story, I was hooked! I don't get the references, but "alternate reality" stories are always a hoot, and this was an exceptional one. I enjoyed the end, and don't really see the need for more 4E stories... i feel it's sort of done.

4: Sticktales - 3 out of 4 ain't bad! I loved Elan, Haley, and Belkar's story. Belkar's was especially great, but Elan and Haley's were well done too. Hamlet just dragged on a bit - as a Shakespeare fan, I got the references, but i felt like there were actually TOO many references, and we had every scene included... It was good but not "A+" material, as most OOTS is.

Overall, the parts I liked the most were the quick short stories (Julio, Beanstalk, Red Riding, Goldenleaf), as well as the continuing narrative with the main cast (sort of) in the version wars, as the main cast interacting is truly the OOTS's strength.

Aside from Prequels and further Sequels to the series, I think the book I would be most interested in is a series of short stories from around the world of OOTS - things like Julio, the episodic adventures of the 4E crew, sticktales, follow-up with random side-characters we met one time and will never see again, or something different like "OOTS Stick Art Genre Attack!" where we see short Sci-Fi, Action, Superhero, Horror etc stories in the OOTS style.

Thanks for puttin' the books out!

-Doc M

Renegade Paladin

2011-08-10, 10:24 AM

In my ever so humble opinion, the best joke in the entire book is on the copyright page, wishing swift death to the enemies of the Forest Stewardship Council. :smallbiggrin:

MoonCat

2011-08-10, 01:01 PM

In my ever so humble opinion, the best joke in the entire book is on the copyright page, wishing swift death to the enemies of the Forest Stewardship Council. :smallbiggrin:

I think I liked the one from the other books better, about them not being the secret enemy of dwarves.

DreadArchon

2011-08-10, 04:10 PM

I wish "I would buy anything" hadn't been an option. Most the people that bought this book are probably going to buy almost anything The Giant puts out.
I don't see any good reason to just blindly make that assumption. I wouldn't buy a book of Julio Scoundrel stories, and it looks like not many people would automatically buy a book of stories totally unrelated to OOTS.

Also, as I write this, fewer than 50% of those surveyed say they would buy anything. That makes it look like a fairly poor assumption.

Reverent-One

2011-08-10, 07:47 PM

So, I'm mostly a 4e player, and I was surprised to see some of the vehemence about the system in this book. I expected jokes about the rules, but I didn't realize Rich felt so strongly negatively toward the game (and yes, I read the explanation in the book).

I liked the end of that section, where the editions team up to kill off other hobbies. But I was bummed to see that the 4e stuff was handled as a literal edition war, with the OotSers fighting their counterparts rather than just meeting and being confused by them with hilarity ensuing.

Some of the jokes were still funny here, but the tone was off-putting for someone like me. I wouldn't want to read more of that.

I sort of agree with you, though I don't see it as vehemence on Rich's part, more of Rich (as he said in the forward) trying to get out a lot of jokes in a short number of pages, plus the fact that the invaders were enemies of the protagonists for most of the story. Some of the jokes were more blunt than usual for Rich, and since they were also things often used to bash 4e in the edition wars (like the comments on the encounter/daily powers, non-magical healing, and abandoned verisimilitude), that it came off a bit harsh. There were a number of solid jokes in there as well, like Roy's (ab)use of Commander's Strike, the pruning of the other dimensions, and how the Durkon's responded to this whole event. All that plus things like a 4e Linear Guild and Avenger Miko means that I'd be up for a book focusing on their continuing adventures, I think it would be more of the stuff you and I liked from this one.

RMcMurtry

2011-08-10, 08:17 PM

Liked the Julio Scoundrel and Dragon Strips; i'd never seen them before. Not interested in a 4e book. I think a better ending for the strips would have been 2nd and 1st and 3.0 edition parties showing up and saying, "look, we've learned to live with both of you so you can learn to live with each other." But that's me.

Oh, and bring the snail back. Loved the snail strips.

Shmuel

2011-08-10, 11:11 PM

On the whole, I liked the Dragon strips. The rest of it... not so much. Especially the Stick Tales, and especially the Hamlet parody, which struck me as tedious and forced. Probably the best of the bunch was the Julio Scoundrél comic, but I still wouldn't pay for more of it. (Now, another prequel tying into the main plot would be a different story...)

Thanatosia

2011-08-11, 02:17 AM

My thoughts on the new book:

Julio Scoundril - honestly, just did not captivate me. I rapidly found myself impatient to get past it and onto the other segments. It was not horrible or anything tho.

Dragon Tails - Loved it. The Snail was awesome. I would love to see some more non-cannon or semi-cannon just random OOTS adventures.... but as much as I love it, I think I love real OOTS with Story & Plot even more.... so while I very much enjoyed it and would buy more, I recognize any effort spent making more would take away time from working on the Real OOTS strip, so would prefer not to do that! So Great material, absolutely loved it, but stick to real OOTs going forward is my vote!

Invaders from the 4th Dimension - Loved it loved loved it. I dunno how 'tapped out' the comedic potential for contrasting 4e to 3.5e is now, as I have little working knowledge of 4e, but would be glad to see more material in this vein. My only complaint - why is it in Grayscale? Gray made sense for Julio and prequels, but I think this would have been better in color. Does it greatly increase the amount the time to produce the strip in color?

Stick Tales - Totally mixed feelings here. Little Red Riding Hoodlum and the Beanstalk ones kind of bored me and didn't interest me much, except for Roy's character in the Beanstalk. Goldenleaf was hilarious but short, loved it.

I was kind of confused with the Red Riding Hoodlum and Beanstalk stories because reading the Giants Intro made me think that a large part of why he was writing the stories was to delve into how D&D mechanics played havoc with traditional story telling - ie, ready access to abilities like Teleport, commune, raise dead, etc.... and then I see the stories pretty much 'told strait' without D&D mechanics throwing any sort of monkey wrenches into them.... oh sure, the characters make the story go off-rails a bit, but the closest thing to a D&D mechanic subversion of the stories that happens is when Roy the Giant survives the fall from the beanstalk due to giant HP > Max falling damage.

But I think the Hamlet tale totally stole the show for the book. I'm amazed at how well the characters sled into the hamlet roles while maintaining their 'OOTs" archtypes so closely. It was really well done, and have to give a Bravo for it. As with the 4th ed tale tho, I wish it was in color.

Hiro Protagonest

2011-08-11, 01:49 PM

My only complaint - why is it in Grayscale? Gray made sense for Julio and prequels, but I think this would have been better in color. Does it greatly increase the amount the time to produce the strip in color?

He does this for a living. He's not going to spend money on color ink unless he did it that way in the first place. See the prequel books.

Gorgon_Heap

2011-08-11, 01:58 PM

I'll be frank about this - I was most looking forward to see what Rich had to say about the editions, and most enjoyed that section.

He did well to express the good and bad points of both third and fourth editions without stressing a personal bias. I appreciate greatly that he did so and how he did so. He's very good at taking two sides of an argument.

The rest I merely enjoyed for what it was. Though I'm rather sad to say I knew "Greenhilt" was supposed to be something by Shakespeare but didn't know what. My unfamiliarity with the subject meant I really didn't get it, though it seems to have been a hit.

Congratulations on a great new book. I look forward to more ...

Ya know. More whatever.

Edit - I'd forgotten I wanted to mention that in "Elan and the Beanstalk" how very cool and subtle it was where Giant Roy landed. Excellent touch.

UtimaII

2011-08-11, 04:48 PM

This was a good read from cover to cover. I especially liked the Dragon Tales strips. I had never seen them before and they were nice to see. It was quite like the earlier stips of the prime series, and reminded me of why I got in to OotS in the first place. As for the rest, Edition Wars and Stick Tales were equally awesome in and of themselves. All in all, it was a well made anthology of self-contained stories.

Thanatosia

2011-08-11, 11:37 PM

He does this for a living. He's not going to spend money on color ink unless he did it that way in the first place. See the prequel books.
Huh what? I mean, if your argument was that he didn't do the original Dragon strips in color then he's not going to go back and colorize it, that would make sense, but the Dragon Strips were in color and most of the new content was grayscale.

MoonCat

2011-08-11, 11:59 PM

Huh what? I mean, if your argument was that he didn't do the original Dragon strips in color then he's not going to go back and colorize it, that would make sense, but the Dragon Strips were in color and most of the new content was grayscale.

It's cheaper to only have part of it in color, don't you think? The same way Start of Farkness had a bit of color.

DreadArchon

2011-08-12, 12:16 AM

It's cheaper to only have part of it in color, don't you think? The same way Start of Darkness had a bit of color.
Redcloak even mentions this as a break-the-4th-wall joke in Start of Darkness.

Manga Shoggoth

2011-08-12, 04:01 AM

It arrived yesterday. Bang went that evening...

I have really mixed feelings about this book (and the poll).

I enjoyed the book, and don't regret buying it, but I would think very hard before buying another book like it.

Rich is at his best when telling a story rather than making one-off or very short strips. This is, of course, why I have stayed with OOTS, and why I thought Start of Darkness was better than On the Origin of PCs.

A lot of the shorter strips would have been excelent bonus material.

Ted The Bug

2011-08-12, 12:34 PM

Finally got my hands on it last night! Up til four finishing it, which is always a good sign.
I thought that the Julio comic was very fun, but a little short. I'd be interested to see how that same story would have played out with a couple more pages of content to flesh out the action (action meaning the adventure-y fight scenes, not the zombie 'action'). I don't play D&D, but I still managed to get at least a decent enough portion of the 4E v. OOTS jokes to enjoy the story. Really liked StickTales with the minor exception of Greenhilt, which probably had more to do with the fact that I haven't read 'Hamlet', and generally don't like Shakespeare all that much.
*hides from the wrath of the forum*
IMO, the Dragon Strips were far and away the best of the book, though. Really fun to read, with good pacing and some really unique gags. Loved the snail!
Finally, even though it was literally just a page, 'Realm of the Dragon' deserves a mention because, well, I guess I really like the concept of random one-off strips involving super minor characters from before.

Overall I enjoyed the book, and I'm looking forward to the next!

EDIT: Tho I couldn't help but wonder why the Five Footsteps comics weren't thrown in there somewhere. Does Rich have access to those?

Reverent-One

2011-08-12, 06:57 PM

Huh, I just noticed that it seems Belkar's story in the Sticktales section is apparently set in a 4e world. The mooks are in fact Minions, with the 1 hp of 4e minions, and Roy talks about making an Athletics, not climb, check.

Thomos

2011-08-13, 12:30 PM

My copy arrived yesterday and I read it today.
I'm glad I bought it.

I found the Julio Scoundrél and Magazine Strips enjoyable but wouldn't buy a book on them.

As a 4E player, I found the 4E OOTS great and had much fun in seeing how the old and new editions were put side by side.
I'm not sure if a standalone book about 4E OOTS would work out, but if anyone can make fun of 4E it is Rich :smallsmile:.

I found Stick Tales and the Greenhilt story in particular hilarious and would buy a standalone book about it.

KenderWizard

2011-08-13, 12:53 PM

I think the title is the cleverest part of the whole thing, which is saying something, because I really enjoyed the book.

I enjoyed 4E vs 3.5E, probably because I play a lot of 3.5 (and the very similar Pathfinder) and don't like 4E. It's not for me.

For the poll, I'd probably buy most of those things, although I'd likely want more information about a "grown-up art style" book before I bought it. I'm not sure any of the other things could be sustained for a whole book, but if anyone could do it, it'd be the Giant. :smallsmile:

Thanks for a great book!

Kish

2011-08-13, 01:45 PM

I expected jokes about the rules, but I didn't realize Rich felt so strongly negatively toward the game

But--

(and yes, I read the explanation in the book).
But, but, but--*head explodes*

You read the explanation in the book, but you discarded it in favor of taking every negative thing about 4ed said by the 3.5ed-OotS as Rich speaking directly to the audience, while dismissing the negative things said about 3.5ed by the 4ed OotS, why exactly?

Loopy777

2011-08-13, 02:38 PM

Really liked StickTales with the minor exception of Greenhilt, which probably had more to do with the fact that I haven't read 'Hamlet', and generally don't like Shakespeare all that much.
*hides from the wrath of the forum*

Liking Shakespeare at all and reading Hamlet do not necessarily go hand in hand. :smallamused: I myself only read it so that I could enjoy Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosencrantz_and_Guildenstern_Are_Dead) more.

WickedWizard17

2011-08-14, 11:16 PM

I voted for "anything," because well duh, all the stuff the Giant puts out is awesome. I also voted for StickTales because they were just too too awesome not to. I was SOO disappointed not to see ones from V and Durkon! Next time :smallwink: Ones from the Linear Guild would be awesome too. I loved making fun of 4E, because I dislike it, but for that same reason I am not interested in seeing more of them.
Watching the two Durkons take down Edward Cullen, though, that was the biggest laugh I've gotten maybe ever :smallbiggrin:
If the prequel option had still been around I would have picked it too, because I bought Start of Darkness with SSaDT, and I loved, loved, LOVED it. I'm getting OtOoPCs for my birthday :smallwink:
I would like to see the background on the Linear Guild, but what I wish to see most would be the story of the Order of the Scribble, especially after SoD (no spoilers!) Maybe when OotS is done we can have them if not in a book :smallsmile:
About the ending of the Dragon strips, when the OotS thanked the Dragon for "Everything," I cried. Literally. I loved Dungeon and Dragon and was SOO upset when they were cancelled. :smallfrown:

Ksheep

2011-08-15, 12:08 PM

Got the book last week, read it, loved it.

I really think that some more StickTales would be good, as those were probably the highlight of the book (aside from having all the Dragon strips together). Really liked the dragon strips as well. Invaders from the 4th Edition Dimension were fun, having played a little bit of 4th myself (but mostly sticking with 3.5).

However, I'm trying to figure out if something is a typo or if I'm just missing something. In the last of the Snail appearances, when V and Haley are tied up and Elan is dominated, the snail says "Now that I have three/ninths of the Order of the Stick…". Is that a typo, or is he counting Psteve and the two interns in that? I wouldn't think they would count since Psteve died before meeting the snail, and the other two probably didn't survive very long after their appearance either, if I had to guess.

Typewriter

2011-08-15, 12:44 PM

Whiffet

2011-08-15, 03:09 PM

However, I'm trying to figure out if something is a typo or if I'm just missing something. In the last of the Snail appearances, when V and Haley are tied up and Elan is dominated, the snail says "Now that I have three/ninths of the Order of the Stick…". Is that a typo, or is he counting Psteve and the two interns in that? I wouldn't think they would count since Psteve died before meeting the snail, and the other two probably didn't survive very long after their appearance either, if I had to guess.

3/9 = 2/6

I thought the snail was trying to sound smart and he wasn't counting Elan. Plus three-ninths sounds better than two-sixths.

WickedWizard17

2011-08-15, 04:32 PM

3/9 = 2/6

I thought the snail was trying to sound smart and he wasn't counting Elan. Plus three-ninths sounds better than two-sixths.

Or, y'know, one-third. That's the most simplified number/fraction.

Plus, am I the only who now desperately wants a t-shirt that says "Little Red Riding Hoodlum?" A red shirt, of course :smallwink:

Whiffet

2011-08-15, 05:09 PM

Or, y'know, one-third. That's the most simplified number/fraction.

Well, yeah, but there are six members of the Order. Making it out of six is reasonable.

Logalmier

2011-08-15, 08:02 PM

I demand a prequel book recounting the adventures of Psteve the psion! I will not rest day or night until such a book becomes available!

(Also, the Sticktales portion of the book was hilarious. Roy's take on Hamlet was extra awesome. I would love to see more of those.)

Ksheep

2011-08-15, 09:26 PM

3/9 = 2/6

I thought the snail was trying to sound smart and he wasn't counting Elan. Plus three-ninths sounds better than two-sixths.

But why wouldn't he count Elan? Elan was just as helpless as the others, or so he thought. I still think counting Psteve and the interns make the most sense... unless it's just a typo.

Whiffet

2011-08-15, 09:54 PM

But why wouldn't he count Elan? Elan was just as helpless as the others, or so he thought. I still think counting Psteve and the interns make the most sense... unless it's just a typo.

The snail says directly to Haley and Vaarsuvius, "Tremble, three-ninths of the Order of the Stick!" Elan is dominated, so by my thinking the snail has no reason to speak to him.

Hardcore

2011-08-16, 02:09 AM

Go the book yesterday. Took only five days to deliver to sweden.!!

Really nice content. Awesome as always. But... yeah, I agree with RB; stick figures FTW! Realistic style doesn't work.

The Giant

2011-08-16, 02:11 AM

The snail says directly to Haley and Vaarsuvius, "Tremble, three-ninths of the Order of the Stick!" Elan is dominated, so by my thinking the snail has no reason to speak to him.

This is correct. He's only addressing the people who are not mindslaves at that point, and he is using a non-reduced fraction because he is an idiot and he thinks it makes him sound like he's captured one more person than he has.

North_Ranger

2011-08-16, 08:33 AM

In order: StickTales, Julio, anthology.

But who am I kidding here, Giant? You could get hammered like an Irishman on St Patrick's Day and write a story about Roy's toes coming to alive to claim the half-rotten hamburger that MitD once ate, and I'd still cough up the cash for it ;) I have been utterly enamoured with OOTS since the day I first came across it, and I can't wait to see what you come up next.

That being said, of the options available I went with the three mentioned earlier. StickTales I loved as parodies of classic tales and showing off how each character put their own spin on them - and then how those stories could be fudged up if D&D elements were introduced ;)

Julio Scoundrél's story I liked because of the satirical touch, playing on the clichés of the pulp adventure stories. I wouldn't mind reading more of those.

DragonTales I absolutely loved, especially V's breakdown when they came across the cavern of the deep halflings. Darkwaiter... hee hee hee... ^^

I liked the 4e part because of the juxtaposition of the 3.5e and 4e characters, each system's pros and cons and how in the end they found a way to resolve their conflict without actually claiming one or the other as the clear-cut winner. As for further adventures of the 4e Order... well, personally I wouldn't think that as my cup of tea, seeing as most of the comedy in the Invaders story came from that conflict between editions. But seeing as how you managed to make the dirt farmers' one-shot story funny, I'm not adverse to seeing more of them.

Loved the book, will be reading and re-reading it to the detriment of my exercise schedule :smalltongue:

MoonCat

2011-08-16, 11:28 AM

North_Ranger

2011-08-16, 11:43 AM

I would be fascinated with that story, partly because to have toes at all I think he'd need to be a goblin. :smallamused:

Le gasp!

Maybe Roy is a goblin minstrel in blaaaaand I don't think I wanna go there :smallbiggrin:

But yeah, I realized that too. Maybe he could write about fingers instead?

Tundar

2011-08-16, 02:58 PM

Thank you for explaining the Kneel before Spud joke. It's actually quite fun when you read it the second time now :)

I just got my copy today and I love most of it.
Only Julio Scoundrél is... well.... just not to my liking.

On the other hand, Prince of Denmark is absolutely hillarious and my favourite. Hamlet will never be the same for me :smallbiggrin: Brilliant cast of charachters! Especially Belkar as Horatio.
Yorick - YukYuk, it's almost the same, bwa hahahaha!!

Cizak

2011-08-16, 03:50 PM

The Giant

2011-08-16, 07:51 PM

Excuse me for being slow, but can you still order the book? Ookookdook says nothing about it being out of print, and there's an "add to cart" option. If someone could clarify this for me, I'd be most grateful.

Yes, it's still available. We have a fair number still left, hopefully enough to last through the Christmas season (but maybe not, it's tough to say).

The Glyphstone

2011-08-16, 07:53 PM

Beautiful. Just beautiful. Sqrt(-Pi) squamous tentacles up.

Warren Dew

2011-08-17, 12:00 AM

I voted for more 4th edition adventures, sticktales, and another anthology like this one. However, there are some nuances about my votes.

I would probably only buy the 4th edition adventures and the sticktales books if they were in color. The black and white is getting too difficult for me to read, and is generally less enjoyable for me. I am willing to pay extra money for color pages, or accept fewer pages.

I liked the 4th edition group not only because Haley and Vaarsuvius were hotter, but also because the group seemed a little different in personality. Getting rid of Belkar would also help with the differentiation, at least until Belkar dies in the regular strip. I'd love to see more of Miko, but I'm unsure she could ever work with the rest of the order; what she really deserves is her own prequel books, which I suspect would be quite popular.

I thought "Greenhilt" was way better than the Shakespeare version. Interruptions and other tie ins with the online strip added to the various stick tales, I thought. I liked the ending in "Goldenleaf", especially with Belkar telling it.

I would buy another anthology like this one, but it's to be noted that a lot of what I liked about this was was the original Dragon strips. Given what the commentary says about the difficulty of writing those strips, I suspect any anthology that actually got written would not be sufficiently close to this one that I would buy it.

Finally, I note that I haven't bought Don't Split the Party, so the books I would buy here come ahead of that book in my preference order. This is probably because for me, I get more enjoyment from jokes than from the story line.

B. Dandelion

2011-08-17, 12:31 AM

My ranking was roughly:

StickTales >= Dragon strips > Edition Wars >> Julio Scoundrel

...which I feel sort of bad for saying since it's not like I hated the Julio Scoundrel comic. But it didn't really grip me, and mostly it was grinworthy where the other features were at least once laugh-out-loud funny.

Juggling Goth

2011-08-17, 01:31 AM

My absolute favourite part was Vaarsuvius getting hir rant on about dark this and deep that. The cleverest long bit was probably Greenhilt, Prince of Denmark, but I love a good rant.

Can't help noticing that Belkar died and Miko returned... nicely done.

Also, I am a big nerd, and I really like reading the commentaries.

Ancalagon

2011-08-17, 04:05 AM

I very much liked the Scoundrel comic. The art was a pretty cool upgrade to the plain 2D figures and I'd really love to see more stuff drawn like that.

Even the main comic would probably be look better this way (but it's not possible due to the increased time to create it).

The book is a very nice collection of stuff and all content is good. The Stick Tales got a bit stale in the end. Having read them is good but I'd rather see other bonus content in the future.

Anyway, what I came to say is: It's a good book, awesome art upgrade in the Scoundrel-part.

Short-review:

Xykon's preface is pretty much like him. I hope his appearance here does not prevent him from writing another preface in one of the comic books.
The scoundrel story is awesome and catches a specific action-oriented light-hearted fun atmosphere very nicely, the content is a bit *yuck* though. The stick-art got much better by adding shades and a 3rd dimension. 8/10.
The Dragon-comics are (mostly) one of the best stand-alone comics OotS has. It's nothing more than funny stand-alones but they excel at that. 10/10.
The Attack from the 4th Dimension is pretty funny and has a very nice resolution. It also has some pretty to-the-point content. 10/10. Despite this high rating I would not wish to see more of them... the point this line of strips came to make were made, whatever comes now can only have a lower impact.
The Stick Tales were good in general, but they got somewhat silly and stale as they ran on. While I surely would not mind one or so thrown in here and there, another collection of them is not on my wishlist. 7/10
Of the stories, I liked Haley's take best, followed by Belkar's.

Hazelnut

2011-08-17, 08:09 AM

Well I messed up the vote by not reading closely enough. I voted for 4e, stick tales and anything.

I enjoyed the 4e/3.5e section of book D the best by far. That's what I thought I was voting for, but I'm really not sure I'd want to read a book with 4e OOTS without the 3.5e OOTS I know and love.

Stick tales was good, and more would be nice. Then I figured I'd probably buy any OOTS related books sooner or later anyway.

One final note, I did enjoy the Dragon strips as well - the bonus strips were extra superb. I think the colour helped immensely, I did not like the B&W style except for the Julio Scoundrel section. Can't vote for this, but wanted to mention.

I think I would go for a full length Julio Scoundrel if I didn't think it would end up being the same joke repeated ad infinitum. If there'd be more to it than 'ooooo, he's a scoundrel' I may be up for it.

One poll option not available is:

- Spend the time working on the core OOTS story and books.

And that's the one I would vote for the most! I don't want to get to the end any time soon, nooooo, but I do want to pick the pace up a little if at all possible. One book a year would be nice, rather than one per 18-24 months (ish), as I get so much more out of reading the books than online. They're almost the only comic books I own (barring the Firefly ones) and I want (to pay you for) more Giant!!!

:smallbiggrin:

Warren Dew

2011-08-17, 09:04 AM

I saw a tiny bit of humor in the first version, if you consider that the Wizard is being subjugated to someone with that look on his face.
For what it's worth, I would have found it hilarious due to the visual joke had it been the first version I saw, and I still like it better than the book version. That's in part because I've come to see the Hasbro acquisitions in the hobby field as a positive, though, and likely guided by genuine gamers on the Hasbro staff, based on their policy of freely releasing the rights to low circulation wargames that don't have the volume to fit Hasbro's business model so that those games can be republished by others. A grinning, goofy Mr. Potato Head seems appropriate and unexpected for that.

Of course, that may apply more to the AH acquisition than to the WotC acquisition, and even the AH acquisition was initially seen as a negative by most gamers, including myself.

squidbreath

2011-08-17, 09:34 AM

I think the Giant is way better at telling longer stories, since the gag strips didn't really pull me in.

The actiony part of the Julio comic felt kinda rushed. Sky pirate's got potential though, maybe with a more epic plot and more charm from the man himself (didn't feel any of it until the second last page)...

As for the new art style, I liked everything but those "unrealistic" blurry, oddly shaped little pools of darkness underneath people's feet. Bit ugly and out of place with the whole crisp edge vector gig imo.

Found the preface, the spot giant Roy fell onto and V's rant about the world underneath especially hilarious. Just wish poor Durkon'd lose a bit o' his blandness.

MoonCat

2011-08-17, 12:00 PM

You know, thinking it over I have another reason why I didn't like the Julio stuff. The Giant did his job too well, and it felt pretty much exactly like a comic book. And I hate comic books. They drive me batty. So that's interesting.

M.A.D

2011-08-17, 04:05 PM

What's a phonebook?

MoonCat

2011-08-17, 05:09 PM

What's a phonebook?

Is that a reference? I don't get it.

Katana_Geldar

2011-08-17, 05:46 PM

Well, cops use them to "convince" people...

My favourite is a close tie between Fourth Dimension and Greenhilt, and Hamlet is my favourite Shakespeare play.

I don't want any more fourth edition, as it'll probably just mean edition jokes than the story, which is what I love about OOTS. It was pretty much all I wanted and have been asking for: the Order of the Stick encountering a party that uses 4th ed rules.

M.A.D

2011-08-17, 05:55 PM

I enjoyed all of the current stories, but what I'm most interested in are continuations for Stick Tales and Julio Scoundrél's adventures. Wouldn't mind an anthology, though

Is that a reference? I don't get it.

I don't get it either. They didn't put it in the book

Well, cops use them to "convince" people...

Erm... I still don't get it

MoonCat

2011-08-17, 06:03 PM

I don't get it either. They didn't put it in the book.

What? Why did you ask what a phonebook was?

M.A.D

2011-08-17, 06:07 PM

What? Why did you ask what a phonebook was?

Look at the back of your book, to the section "Stuff we didn't put in this book" (the one in white) and tell me you aren't wondering why I would possibly be interested in Azure City's phonebook. The porn, I would have understand, though..

Katana_Geldar

2011-08-17, 06:07 PM

I know there is a mention of the Azure City phonebook on the back cover, maybe that's why.

:smallsigh: It's a joke!

M.A.D

2011-08-17, 06:09 PM

:smallsigh: It's a joke!

That's the part I didn't get :P

MoonCat

2011-08-17, 06:10 PM

Look at the back of your book, to the section "Stuff we didn't put in this book" (the one in white) and tell me you aren't wondering why would we possibly be interested in Azure City's phonebook. The porn, I would have understand, though..

The joke is that's why it was left out. That's stuff they didn't put in, like you said.

But why did you ask what a phonebook was?

Katana_Geldar

2011-08-17, 06:13 PM

Rich has talked in a previous commentary how some people would prefer pages of the phonebook to the Miko strips.

BTW, did anyone get the Penny Arcade reference? It was very subtle.

M.A.D

2011-08-17, 06:16 PM

Aww man. Now I really want to read those phonebook pages

MoonCat

2011-08-17, 06:19 PM

Rich has talked in a previous commentary how some people would prefer pages of the phonebook to the Miko strips.

BTW, did anyone get the Penny Arcade reference? It was very subtle.

Which book? Now I want to find this.

Nope, where is it?

M.A.D

2011-08-17, 06:26 PM

But why did you ask what a phonebook was?

So that I won't have any regrets once I say goodbye to my teenage years

BTW, did anyone get the Penny Arcade reference? It was very subtle.

Which page?

Katana_Geldar

2011-08-17, 06:30 PM

Which book? Now I want to find this.

Nope, where is it?

In No Cure for the Paladin Blues, I think

So that I won't have any regrets once I say goodbye to my teenage years

Which page?

In the fourth dimension strips, with the fight between the Belkars. It's very subtle. 3.5 Belkar says that one of 4e Belkar's powers is "Care Bear Stare" 4e Belkar tells him to be quiet, and talks about how American Greetings will sue webcomics, and that's what happened to Penny Arcade when they did a parody of Strawberry Shortcake.

DaveMcW

2011-08-17, 06:55 PM

That parody has already been done by stick figure comic.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/join_myspace.png (http://xkcd.com/146/)

Katana_Geldar

2011-08-17, 07:00 PM

That parody has already been done by stick figure comic.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/join_myspace.png (http://xkcd.com/146/)

Taste the rainbow!

And I think 4e OOTS are level 9, if the power Knock Them Down is any indication.

Skavensrule

2011-08-17, 09:58 PM

What? Why did you ask what a phonebook was?

Meta-humor, look at #6 of "Stuff we didn't put in this book"

M.A.D. is claiming that he/she is under 20 years old and has never seen a phonebook.

I could really confuse people and mention 8tracks and reel-to-reel, or why we use the term "dial" for phone numbers.:smalltongue:

M.A.D

2011-08-18, 12:56 AM

@Katana_Geldar: Thanks

@Skavensrule: Actually, I metaphorically and indirectly and therefore unofficially claimed that I have never seen the kind of phonebook for which the SS&D's younger demographic would require a definition.

And yes, I am under 20, at least for the duration of approximately another 20 days.

Thattaman

2011-08-18, 05:42 AM

OK, my book arrived yesterday, and has now been read cover to cover, including the commentry.

I voted anything you bring out in the future because frankly, I'm in love with the Order of the Stick, Rich. It is in my eyes, the greatest work of fiction I've ever read/seen/listened to.

I started by reading the back cover. Unsurprisingly, I found it very amusing.

I haven't seen a whole lot of love for Julio from what I've seen on this thread, but I enjoyed it as much of the rest of it. I'm glad you didn't do it in a classic comic book style, though, as those sketches just didn't quite look right to me. Although the slightly altered art was nice to look at for a change.

The Realm of the Dragon (I think that's what it was called) was an unexpected treat. I thought there might be a sequel to the Farmers of Dirt seen in DStP, but alas no. The RotD was just as good, though. And I've seen them in the comic before!

The Dragon strips. Heh. I loved the snail, the 'Dodging Game' made me laugh out loud, but Psteve... Psteve could have been the main character for the entire book! I hope Psteve makes an appearance in a future volume. I know its unlikely but he's just so COOL!

I have to say, as someone who has never read a single copy of Dragon magazine in his life, the last few strips really meant nothing to me. Fortunately, the commentry and comments on this thread helped me understand the humour, so I appreciate that it was a good work of comedy. It just didn't really mean a whole lot to me.

4e strips. My brother's a 4e player (I don't play DnD at all) so I've played a few games with him - enough to get a fair amount of the jokes seen in this section. The zombie hooker joke and the scene where Vaarsuvius catches a glimpse of the Feywild were both classic OotS moments. This also contains my favourite page of the book - where the two parties travel to the different 'worlds' to make people have more time to play DnD. I think some of favourite jokes in the webcomic have been the ones that satirise pop culture, for example the 'Macebook' strip and the characters from Sesame Street on parade in the Empire of Blood.

The Stick Tales, I felt, were the start of a glorious new age of Oots comedy. The tragedy of Greenhilt had me laughing in pleasure at the sheer brilliance of it. Hats off to you, Giant. I would definately buy a book of stories like this, more so than any of the other sections.

Just one thing I would say, I felt like the majority of the book should have been in colour. I think the greyscale works well for the prequels, but not for these 'just for fun' strips. It doesn't really spoil my enjoyment, though.

And so concludes my longest ever post.

Savil

2011-08-18, 06:05 AM

What I'd really like to see is further struggle of the OOTS against H.T.Snail :smallamused:

Voted for anthology, 4th Edition and StickTales.
Fourth Edition, IMHO, has the best potential for a book, with alternate universe providing opportunities for plot and 4e D&D providing material for jokes (as seen even in minion joke in 'Goldenleaf' :smallbiggrin:).
Liked the StickTales and was saddened by the fact that V and Durkon hadn't the chance to mock 'Wizard of Oz' or 'Snow White' or whatever :smallsmile:

WampaX

2011-08-18, 12:14 PM

Got mine yesterday.

I didn't realize that you had so much trouble finding images of the old strips in Dragon Magazine until I read your commentary. I own the old CD-Rom collection (http://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Magazine-Archive-Pc/dp/B00002EIWS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1313686843&sr=8-4) of the first 250 issues on PDF that TSR released right before they went under. When you published it the first time, I went back through the files looking for the old characters in the back of the mags.

Still like the last panel of the Dragon flying off into the sunset, even though it tugs on the heartstrings a little less in the compilation than when I first read it on the last page of the last print Dragon. It really was the end of an era and you gave it a fantastic send-off.

Zherog

2011-08-18, 12:34 PM

...you gave it a fantastic send-off.

Agreed. It was the perfect close to the final issues. While a bunch of people (including me, I'll add sheepishly) were spewing vitriol at WotC for killing the magazines, you went and crafted a wonderful tribute.

I'm still digging my way through Snips*, I've generally liked what I've seen. Julio was interesting, but I don't know that I'd want more of it as a complete book. Maybe another small segment as filler/bonus material.

The 4th dimension stuff was fun; it was nice to see the 4e jokes and a vision of the OotS as 4e characters. As to whether I want more... that depends. If you're going to craft a story - even a short one - then I'm interested. You're an excellent story-teller (have been as long as I've known you, really), so I'd be interested in more of that. Even something closer to full sized. If, instead, you're talking about more edition gags... eh.

I'm still reading the Stick Tales section. I've enjoyed the ones I've read so far. I think there's room to expand here, too, with a bigger collection of "twisted" stories.

Mostly, I wanted to post here to thank you (again) for the fitting tribute to the end of Dragon. It really touched me back when it ran, and even now I get a little verklempt reading it. But since I'm here, I figured I'd give you some of the info you're asking for in the poll, too.

* I do most of my reading right before bed, and I'm finding the text hard to read. Not a complaint by any stretch; I certainly don't expect you to compensate for my deteriorating eyesight. ;)

factotum

2011-08-18, 04:30 PM

Just finished reading. Liked the Dragon strips, the 4E stuff, and Julio Scoundrel. Wasn't actually a big fan of the Sticktales, though--don't know why, they just didn't gel for me in the same way that your purely original material does.

As for the Hasbro joke, I think I got completely thrown because I thought the potato head was announcing HIMSELF as being the "son of Adki", even though I'm familiar with Superman II...it wasn't until I came in here I realised there was another interpretation of what he said! Didn't help that I wasn't aware of Adkison's role in founding Wizards, of course.

Felixaar

2011-08-18, 07:45 PM

Got it a few days ago, really enjoyable. For future books I would prefer things that build on the Oots-world. Not necessarily directly focusing on the Oots, or even highly plot relevant, just some that show off your world-building skills.

I would probably only buy the 4th edition adventures and the sticktales books if they were in color. The black and white is getting too difficult for me to read, and is generally less enjoyable for me. I am willing to pay extra money for color pages, or accept fewer pages.

This, too. I didn't see any logical reason why most of this book was in grey, and it kind of bothered me when characters would reference the colour of something in a grey page. Please never bring the IFCC into greyscale :smallamused:

Hiro Protagonest

2011-08-18, 07:58 PM

This, too. I didn't see any logical reason why most of this book was in grey, and it kind of bothered me when characters would reference the colour of something in a grey page. Please never bring the IFCC into greyscale :smallamused:

Some of us aren't so willing to pay extra money for full color. Between video games and D&D books, there's more than I can afford and would prefer to spend as little as possible on things.

Gamgee

2011-08-19, 10:42 AM

Crap I voted for stick tales, this does not represent my view. I didn't like that part to be honest, just didn't really fit in.

silversaraph

2011-08-19, 11:02 AM

On the back cover it said that "hardcore stick figure porn" was left out of the book. Was there softcore stick figure porn? If so, I missed it. :smallfrown:

Seraphem

2011-08-19, 06:35 PM

let's see

Julio's adventures-Liked it, didn't love it, just liked. Would possibly be interesting to see another story or two as bonus material in future books, but not as it's own stand alone book, though best part was the letters column

Dragon Strips-Some were meh, others were hilarious, would really love to see more of the heavily-templated-snail, and found the final strips quite touching, even though first time I'd even heard of Dragon magazine was from the earlier OotS strip mentioning the Dragon comics.

4e invaders-hilariously amazing, was definitely my favorite part, but wouldn't really be interested in seeing just the 4e Order on there own, it was the conflict with the 3.5'ers that made the story. Now, if we got to see some expanded adventures of the two groups going to different "worlds" and kicking ass, that could be interesting.

Stick tales-Definitely the part I'd most be inclined to by as a stand alone, they were all amazing and would love to see more of them.

Over all very glad i bought the book, and of the options the two I'd be most eager to purchase would be either a Stick Tales book, or another anthology like this one.

Felixaar

2011-08-19, 07:30 PM

Some of us aren't so willing to pay extra money for full color. Between video games and D&D books, there's more than I can afford and would prefer to spend as little as possible on things.

What, a few dollars? If Rich came out with yet-another-must-buy every week I'd want him to keep the costs down, but given the rarity of new books I think a $5 difference is okay.

But, to each their own. Oots is about the only thing of this kind that I buy :smalltongue:

pcgneurotic

2011-08-20, 02:48 AM

I just wanted to say that reading the last Dragon strip made me cry, again! I'm sure there are a lot of people who remember reading it at the time and being absolutely devastated, and reading it again now really brought it all back. Great book Rich, great stuff man. :smallsmile:

Ksheep

2011-08-20, 08:17 AM

4e invaders-hilariously amazing, was definitely my favorite part, but wouldn't really be interested in seeing just the 4e Order on there own, it was the conflict with the 3.5'ers that made the story. Now, if we got to see some expanded adventures of the two groups going to different "worlds" and kicking ass, that could be interesting.

3.5 and 4e teams going up against a Pathfinder and/or GURPS version of themselves, maybe?

willpell

2011-08-20, 08:18 AM

Most of the Dragon strips were tepid, and Julio Scoundrel was crap IMO. The Edition Wars was a very cute one-off, but I have no interest in seeing it continued. However I loved StickTales; it is the main reason I will eventually buy the book.

FafnerMorell

2011-08-20, 08:48 PM

I enjoyed all the sections - but StickTales, especially the Hamlet tale, were the best by far.

Having another anthology would be fine for items too short to warrant a full book - maybe more info on the Linear Guild, Order of the Scribble, etc.

Mordokai

2011-08-21, 01:29 AM

Julio Scoundrel comic: it was amusing in it's own right and I love seeing the parody of so many old superhero comics. Coupled with the fact that I'm lately on a superhero movie watching streak, it was a very good addition. However, I don't think I would buy another book consisting solely of adventures of a good captain, since I think I would get bored fast.

Invaders from 4th dimension was hillarious, but I don't think I would like reading another book dedicated just to them and their own dimension. While the comic itself was fun and I eventually learned to accept and even love the 4E, I would prefer to keep my Oots 3.5, thank you very much.

I was amused by stick tales. I would maybe buy another book consisting solely of these.

I would most certainly not buy a book consisting solely of more realistic style of drawing, like the one on Julio Scoundrel bonus page. It's not bad, far from it, but I just got used to sticks too much.

The Dragon magazine comics were the prime reason I bought this book and they didn't dissapoint. They were funny, each and every one of them and I loved the bonus comics. I didn't get into DnD way after Dragon and Dungeon were canceled, but I own a few of them anyway and have some pdf and they were great. The last three comics made me nostalgic. If you'd decide to do another compilation of these, I would certainly buy that book. I know you said you wouldn't(I read your commentary), so I know it won't be done, but I had to say it anyway.

My vote went to buying another anthology like this one. All in all, this book did what I wanted it to do: it amused me for a few hours, so I consider it money well spent. However, with all due respect toward you as an author, I don't think a book consisting solely of one of these themes would manage to hold my attention for as long as the mix of all of them did.

Take my two cents for what they are worth to you.

Zar Peter

2011-08-21, 04:43 PM

Well, I loved the book and would definitely buy again if given the choice.

Julio Scoundrel is good as story and I would like to see some more stories. Don't know if he carries a whole book, though.

The Dragon Tales were good, some easy jokes, some great ones. I really liked the Snail, she/he had a level of incompetence that was really funny.

Edition wars were funny but since I know that the 4th edition exists but nothing more I didn't get involved in that so much.

The Stick tales at last were great, especially Roy as Hamlet. That was comedy genius in my eyes, although I'm sorry to admit that this comic at least doubled my knowledge of the original play. Anyway, Xykon as Uncle who can't remember the name of his nephew and Belkar as Horatio... still laughing inside.

All in all it's a buy I don't regret, thank you Giant for this piece of art.

Caractacus

2011-08-21, 05:48 PM

Thank you, Giant, for a very good read.

For the first time, I was not entirely confident about a book of yours when I ordered it. I knew that I wanted more of your high-quality output, and I knew that I did not want to miss ANYTHING that may be main-storyline canon (thank goodness, since the Stick Tales were in-Oots-universe), but I worried that the non-storyline Dragon tales might be a bit hard to relate to, as I identify with the characters as somehow 'real'.

However, I very much enjoyed the entire book. Thanks!

Comments and Thoughts

Julio Scoundrel: Very good. However, his adventures may get repetitious - as those of his genre often do. So it's not clear to me whether he could carry an entire book alone. Nonetheless, I would buy such a book.

Dragon Tales: Fun, but I am uneasy with alternative plotlines / universes. I am not keen on this kind of strip as a future idea.

Edition Wars: This was really entertaining, but surely the majority of what was obviously going to be funny / worth saying has now been used? I don't want another Oots team that is 4th Edition. If we ARE going to have a 4th Edition parallel world, then I think it should have no replica characters from 3.5 Oots even if the characters can travel between the 'versions'. Otherwise, 2 Haleys, 2 Roys, etc? Not working for me at all.

Stick Tales: This was brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. I liked Goldenleaf and Little Red Riding Hoodlum but loved Greenhilt: Prince of Denmark. The premise is good with characters telling tales to pass the time (next layover in Southwerk at the Tabard?), and I would happily listen to V and Durkon - even if the former will wax so prolix that s/he will need pretty much the entire book to him/herself. I also feel that other stories from other Oots characters could be done, but with a caveat that they were still considered to be a real part of the Ootsverse.

I REALLY like the fact that these Stick Tales are actually a part of the main narrative. They don't advance the story in any way (I assume), but they fill us in on what they were doing whilst travelling and give us more of the Order interacting.

(In some ways I like it better for not advancing the plot but being main-storyline canon - it delays that sad day when Oots will end, whilst still fulfilling my Oots needs...)

I find that the jokes are easy as the characters are in a 'real' world, and they have a history that is real to them, and a future, too. So more Stick Tales or any other kind of elements that round off what the Order has been doing thus far.

Finally, I'd like to echo Felixaar: more Ootsverse material, whether it is side characters, stories or the adventures of Scoundrél.

There is a whole world out there, and I want to know more...

Thanks, Rich.

zql

2011-08-22, 03:32 PM

My vote goes for Julio Scoundrel, although I enjoyed the Sticktales a lot too. I prefered Julio because that badass/bonafide/witty action-hero genre is a classic that never grows old. The Sticktales... I don't know if I want to read an entire book of that.

The 4th dimension thing was a little boring to me at some point, since I've never played that version.

Rhothaerill

2011-08-22, 10:42 PM

I wasn't originally going to buy this book since I had all the dragon magazines that were collected here, and didn't realize there would be so much new content.

But then of course I gave in since I couldn't stand the thought of missing out on having the entire OOTS book collection if this went out of print before I picked it up. ;)

And...I liked it. Julio Scoundrel was okay, but I liked everything else. I'm not up on 4th ed. rules, but I could follow along with the OOTS and their 4th ed. dopplegangers fighting each other. It worked well.

I also really liked Stick Tales. Looking forward to more of those.

Vectner

2011-08-23, 02:33 PM

Read it and Weep is the funniest thing I have ever seen, I couldn't finish reading the panel where Elan was doing the tap-merenge fusion. Could you ever get more anoying than that, Brilliant!

Stick tales were also a hoot. I would love to see more. Hamlet was a wonderful adaptation and Zykon was perfect for Claudious.

I enjoyed the whole book, but would have liked more of it in color, maybe the next one can be full color?

Thanks Rich for a fun read.

Surfing HalfOrc

2011-08-24, 04:31 PM

Druness

2011-08-24, 04:33 PM

...something I would love to see is a book that shows the different afterlives. Or different characters in the afterlife. One of my favorite parts of the main story so far was seeing Roy deal with all the tidbits of dying, and it would be really cool to see Miko, or the gnome Belkar killed, or any number of villains or other random NPCs in the afterlife.

OH YES. It was when I was reading the comics with Roy in the afterlife that I decided I had to have all the books. Seeing the other Planes would be fabulous.

Lira

2011-08-24, 04:48 PM

I got my copy in the mail today and just finished reading it a few minutes ago. It was definitely worth every penny (and worth the wait), as OOTS books always are. There were parts in every section that made me laugh, though I did enjoy some parts better than others.
If there are going to be more books like this, my preference would be for the options that focus on the main six members of the OOTS, rather than minor characters. So I voted for StickTales and 4th Edition options. For the former, I really would love to read some stories told by Vaarsuvius.

Stabbey

2011-08-24, 04:49 PM

I enjoyed the book quite a bit, particularly the Dragon strips and the Fourth Edition ones.

Julio Scoundrel
This was only okay, it didn't do much for me. Julio Scoundrel was a rather one-note character, although the ending was funny. I probably wouldn't buy a book just of him, though.

Adventures of the Fourth Edition
This could be interesting to see more of. I don't know a lot about the fourth edition, but I don't know that much about 3.5 E and I still enjoy regular OotS. It would have to have a different main plot, and that could be interesting to see.

Stick Tales
These were generally good. I would have liked to see a Durkon and a V story, but I guess their characters might make it hard to write ones which were good. Roy's tale and Belkar's tales were the best.

Kish

2011-08-24, 09:36 PM

During the Team Up between "Our" 3.5 ed Heores and the 4th ed Heroes, they went to create more time by breaking up other games...

What was the vampire game they were breaking up? Vampire, the Masquarade? Or something else, possibly including sparkly vampires? Never played that one, but my sister once bought me the t-shirt cause she thought it looked cool. It did, and it has long since been worn out.
I think they weren't just breaking up other games--they were destroying other pastimes, such that people would have nothing to do for recreation but play D&D. As such, the scene with the vampires was them attacking Twilight.

turkishproverb

2011-08-25, 04:41 PM

In other words, a definite GOOD act

Denyala

2011-08-26, 08:36 AM

I enjoyed the whole book, but the 4e section was my favorite. Unlike some other posters who don't know the 4e rules and thus are not interested in following the 4e counterparts, I have the opposite problem. Although I've read the comic for years, I was never able to find a group to play DnD with until recently with the 4e. This is my long winded way of saying I LOVED actually understanding the jokes centered around 4e rules. It struck a cord with me that the current OOTS couldn't. (Don't get me wrong, I dearly love OOTS.)

So this is my opinion (plea?) to continue the 4e in other books. :smallredface:

pendell

2011-08-26, 09:40 AM

Just finished the book.

The entries in order of my liking of them, from best to worst:

1) Dragon Tales. This is the part that really tickled my funny bone and made me laugh out loud. Especially the recurring villain with his umpty-kazillion templates.

2) Hamlet, by OOTS. Not only is Xykon and Roy comedic gold, we actually get to see Redcloak, Xykon, and Miko again! Now if only Tsukiko would have been there also, my joy would have been complete.

This is in no way a veiled comment that it's been too long since I've seen those characters in the main comic and want them back :wink:.

3) Goldeneye. It was a brutal ending, but I'm frankly getting tired of seeing Belkar used as a punching bag.

He's killed three times throughout the book as a whole, and enslaved by a druid

And I loved his "NO, Mr. Greenhilt, I expect you to diet!" line.

4) Julio Scoundrel.

This character has potential, but TBH he's not enough by himself. This one off of Julio scoundrel was more like "Julio and his band of nameless, interchangeable crew and enemies".

Julio can't carry a story himself. If Rich decides to explore this character, we need a foil, or a sidekick -- some other characters of interest to counterpoint Julio and give him something other than cardboard to interact with. I guess the main story spoiled me.

5) The other stick tales.

6) Invaders from the fourth dimension. Too many OOTS characters for too long. I don't mind the 4E OOTS, and I don't mind they had some conflict with 3.5 OOTS, but the whole meeting felt forced.

Remember that this is ROY we're talking about in both continuities. He negotiated with orcs rather than simply resort to violence. I have a hard time believing he'd give orcs more of a break than he'd give his own 3.5 self and characters.

The conflict didn't feel real or believable. It was more like kids fighting with action figures.

One final observation.

I can't help but noticing that as a rule the biggest difference between the older dragon material and the new material added just for the book is that the dragon material was funnier . More comedic, more zany, more lighthearted. The new material at times seemed dyspeptic or even cruel, especially with Belkar in his continually recurring role of punching bag.

Perhaps that's why I liked Hamlet the best of the new strips, not only is Xykon good at physical comedy, but he's cruel and nasty. He's like a magnet for nastiness -- since *he's* the one who's doing all the vicious and nasty things, it frees up other people to be lighter. The entire order seems to lighten up a bit, at least by comparison, when Xykon's on stage.

I also have to wonder just how much of this book is a test-marketing of ideas and themes which may yet appear in the main continuity. Belkar, as mentioned above,

is killed three times in three different ways

I have to wonder if Rich isn't using the extra comic book to test reactions to these events, in order to decide which way he'll take the main continuity. He's told us that the strips are known in broad outline, but response to the comic may give him ideas as to what works or doesn't when he starts drawing the specific strips.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

King of Nowhere

2011-08-26, 11:59 AM

just a quick question regarding the preface, maybe already asked and answered, but the thread is already too long to check entirely and i'm not good at using the search bottom;

why Xykon don't like monks???

Hiro Protagonest

2011-08-26, 01:32 PM

King of Nowhere

2011-08-27, 05:43 AM

The book was fantastic, as always.
My personal favourite is the tragedy of grenhilt, but maybe only because I know hamlet enough to get all the references. It was a close call anyway.

I owe an apology to the italian mail system. I was sure they wouldn't deliver the book before october, but I guess in italy we complain too much about our public services.

lothos

2011-08-27, 06:25 AM

Just finished reading it, overall impression was that it was well worth the wait. Thanks Rich !

My opinions:
The 4th Edition/Dimension story was my favourite part. I've never actually played either 3.5 or 4.0 edition (or even 3.0 or 2.0 for that matter) but I loved the rules jokes. It was reading OOTS that inspired me to read the 3.5 edition rules so I could get the jokes. I might actually have a second read through of the 4th Edition rules just to make sure I get all the nuances of the jokes in this story.
Wonderful to finally see all the dragon magazines. I had actually seen the original templated snail strip in an old Dragon magazine. I really appreciated his return and the joke about the fine/diminutive anvil was just brilliant.
Julio Scoundrel.... not bad at all. Funny enough, but not my 1st preference
Stick Tales - I really liked Elan and the Beanstalk, but I was kind of half expecting the Giant who lives in the clouds not to be Roy, but to be Rich's avatar from the forums :-). Goldenleaf made me think of the Evil Overlord (http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html) Troupes. Red Riding Hoodulum wasn't bad. The Hamlet parody.. the problem is I've never read Hamlet and have only a passing knowledge of the story so I probably missed a ton of jokes. That's really my problem of course. I guess I should actually read Hamlet one of these days :-)
I liked the Dragon Empire one-off strip and failed to recognise them from strip 501, so was very pleased when it was pointed out in the first page of this thread.

So what else would I be very keen to buy... well Rich has already said prequel books are likely, I'd be dead keen to buy prequels on any of the following (in order of preference, highest preference first):
The Order of the Scribble (Soon, Girard, Lirian etc)
The Paladins of Azure City - especially if Miko, Hinjo, Shojo, Lien and Sangwaan were in it... and lots of O-Chul !
Tarquin's party
The Linear Guild

To be honest though, I'd probably buy almost anything Rich chooses to put out in the style of OOTS.

I think they weren't just breaking up other games--they were destroying other pastimes, such that people would have nothing to do for recreation but play D&D. As such, the scene with the vampires was them attacking Twilight.

I'd assumed that was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Not having watched any of Twilight or much Buffy, I just assumed it was the Vampire-genre show I was most familiar with. Buffy was in a single panel in On the Origin of PCs... unless I've got that wrong too :-)

They were definitly breaking up other passtimes though.. I was actually kind of expecting to see "Go" there as well as Chess, given strip 651 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0651.html).

Crazeemeel

2011-08-28, 11:11 PM

I would buy anything written by Rich as I've yet to find any of the books much less than "very entertaining".

My dream though is for there to someday be a prequel book for The Order of The Scribble. Their story highly intrigues me. The only problem is that it might be an extremely large chore, considering that they were epic level characters by the time they created the gates.

Delcor

2011-08-29, 01:05 AM

I loved the entire book, great job Rich. The allegories were well done, the art was fantastic, the humor was unbeatable.

MoonCat

2011-08-29, 02:39 PM

A question for the Giant, does the StickTales part count as canon? Canon for the main continuity I mean? The Order did actually sit around and tell stories and make fun of Belkar?

The Giant

2011-08-29, 02:43 PM

A question for the Giant, does the StickTales part count as canon? Canon for the main continuity I mean?

The framing device scenes? Absolutely. At least as much as anything counts as canon around here.

Sidenote: I had originally placed Gannji and Enor among the background spectators of the final duel of Hamlet, and then I remembered that at the point the stories were being told, they hadn't met them yet. Whoops. :smallredface:

MoonCat

2011-08-29, 02:45 PM

Ah, thank you. Great to know. To the WMG-mobile!

Whiffet

2011-08-29, 03:52 PM

Wait, the framing device in StickTales is canon? But near the end of DStP in a bonus strip Belkar references Hamlet while speaking to Hinjo. Yet the StickTales makes it quite clear that the story is unfamiliar to the characters. Clearly this is a major clue to what will happen later in the story! It must point to the true nature of the world in the rift!

Whatever is going on, it certainly isn't just a line from Belkar that was supposed to be funny. It's not like this comic uses pop culture references for jokes or anything.

The Giant

2011-08-29, 04:50 PM

Wait, the framing device in StickTales is canon? But near the end of DStP in a bonus strip Belkar references Hamlet while speaking to Hinjo.

Like I said:

At least as much as anything counts as canon around here.

I spent a good deal of time trying to figure out if I could retcon or explain that Hamlet joke from DStP away, and in the end decided that I didn't care enough about continuity between two print-only bonus content strips to not do the Hamlet StickTale. Not when I've already made a mess of whether the Dragon strips are the same continuity as the regular ones.

Whiffet

2011-08-29, 05:10 PM

Awww, I was just joking around. I didn't mean for that to be taken seriously. I'm sorry. :smallfrown:

ZMikeSner

2011-08-30, 06:00 AM

Julio Scoundrel- I loved the art style used there. It was different and familiar at the same time. The story was funny, the jokes were great, I'd love to see more.

Dragon Magazine Strips- All just as funny as I remember, and the bonus ones were great! I loved the observation of deep and dark defining living underground

Edition Wars- Contained many of my favorite jokes, but I thought the ending was a tad weak. I think this should stay a one time deal, but I'd read any future installments you might do.

StickTales- Hamlet was by far my favorite. Xykon's character traits added to Claudius...god that was hilarious. Favorite thing in this book:

:roy: "You married her like a week after my father died in his sleep."

:xykon: "Sorta fast, don't you think?"

:roy: "YES!! Yes, I do in fact think it was "sorta fast.""

I was in stitches. I'd love to see more of these in the future, most definitely. Keep up the great work, Giant! I'll keep reading, as always!

Sgt Pinback

2011-09-01, 07:51 AM

I think it would have to be another compilation with various bits thrown in. That has a certain charm, and there's something in it for everyone. Maybe that can contain something else entirely rather than the poll options? Surprise us!

I really enjoyed the dragon strips for pure gag-value, and the Stick Tales.

Julio Scoundrel I'm not entirely sure about; I think potentially he was misplaced at the start of the book - maybe people were impatient with him wanted to get to the OOTS material? Odd that despite the artwork he's more 2-dimensional than most of the regular characters. I think he has potential though if given something interesting to do.

The only thing I'm not particularly interested in is more 4e.

Of course I'll probably buy anything you put out, and I'd pay for full colour. I disliked the way this book was announced, however ("buy now or there's a chance you won't get it"), and I would prefer it if I could buy future books from my usual vendor again (who offers payment options other than giving our credit card details on the internet) rather than more Ookoodook exclusives.

nli10

2011-09-01, 08:23 AM

Loved the new book - well worth shipping to the UK. Waiting just makes it more like Christmas. The surprise of getting the parcel with the book the day after the e-mail saying international orders may be a month away was great - I guess ordering the second I knew it was available put me at the head of the queue.

As in the Poll I liked the variety & I'd probably grab anything you sell! The 4th Ed. stuff was different and cool, but I'd be happy for you to wander off wherever your imagination & pencils take you. Even non-fantasy stuff!

My LGS seemed annoyed that this was online only after they 'took the risk' on the earlier books, but as the only reason I'd started re-visitig them was to collect your books and have since turned into a regular I don't think they can complain too much. :smallbiggrin:

The Giant

2011-09-01, 10:05 AM

My LGS seemed annoyed that this was online only after they 'took the risk' on the earlier books, but as the only reason I'd started re-visitig them was to collect your books and have since turned into a regular I don't think they can complain too much. :smallbiggrin:

I'm as big a fan as the next guy of supporting gaming stores, but I hate the attitude that a small minority of them seem to have that I am obligated to put their bottom line above my own. I don't publish OOTS as part of an elaborate scheme to support gaming stores, I do it to support myself. If that happens to help them out too, then awesome. Everybody wins. But I don't think they have a right to get annoyed at me for making decisions that make financial sense for my (very small) company.

Tobrian

2011-09-01, 11:30 AM

My copy of OotS: SS&DT has arrived in Germany! Yay!

I didn't catch the hidden jokes on my first read-through, but on the second time around I noticed some hidden meta-jokes: :smallbiggrin:

In "Elan and the Beanstalk", page 3, first three panels, the Sean Bean joke: of course Boromir from Lord of the Rings would meet his end at the point of an orc's arrow. (Although in the movie it was three arrows if I remember correctly. But then, an actor has fewer hitpoints than a high-level fighter. :smallwink:

In "Elan and the Beanstalk", page 11, 4th and 5th panels, when the GIANT falls off the beanstalk he drops into a PLAYGROUND (visible faintly in the background)! :smalltongue:

In "Greenhilt: Prince of Denmark", page 28, last panel, when Belkar makes a lewd proposition to Jenny, the bard girl from the Thieves Guild, we get a nice "Stratford-upon-Avon" joke there (Stratford-upon-Avon being the town which is the birthplace of William Shakespeare).

In "Goldenleaf", Belkar channels various Bond villains (the name, the white cat, the mangling of the "No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die." line) although these are less of a hidden meta-joke and more like annotations.

Are there more?
-----------------(change of topic)------------------------

I'd like to see more of the 4DOoTS (pronounced "fourdoots"?); at the very least it'd be nice to see them in full color. (And the 4D Linear Guild! What kind of completely-missing-the-point multiclass hybrid Frankenstein build has Nale saddled himself with?)

Actually, I don't. I prefer the 4E OotS characters to stay a one-time joke, not for the "4th Dimension" alter egos of our heroes and villains to evolve into a full alternate comic strip. Because as ironic as it sounds, the point that Rich made about there only being limited time for roleplaying and different D&D editions/RPG systems/hobbies having to time-share is equally valid when it comes to comic strips: Ever strip that features the Wacky Adventures of the 4E characters takes away time from our Order of the Stick! Any 4E strip Rich has to draw is one less strip about our OotS!

Also, it's not like these are technically new characters, so what's the point? As much as I love alternate takes on characters (i.e. Mirror Universe stories), those are only interesting when you contrast them with the Prime universe characters. Unless you want to start a whole new continuity and end the old continuity (i.e. superhero comics, the Star Trek movie relaunch).

And making a whole storyline only filled with the 4E Order of the Stick would mean for the audience to know the 4E rules, just to get the 4E in-jokes. In the crossover story, I could get the jokes fine despite only having a fleeting knowledge of the actual in-depths 4E rules (everything I have heard and seen and read about the changes to the setting, classes, races, and most importantly the way 4E plays convinced me I won't like it, but I didn't get into the minutiae of the rules crunch, because why waste my life on that?).

Alaska Fan

2011-09-01, 04:50 PM

Giant, skimming through the first two pages of comments I didn't see this addressed, so maybe it is just me. But my preference would be to have you focus on the main story. The compendia, while amusing, simply aren't at the same level as the main tale. For me, at least, the stuff in "Snips" comes off as a one-off, and can't compare to the writing, plot development and characterization in the primary story.

I think, in the end, you'd make more money at it, too.

The Giant

2011-09-01, 10:53 PM

Giant, skimming through the first two pages of comments I didn't see this addressed, so maybe it is just me. But my preference would be to have you focus on the main story.

It's not included as an option because there is only so much main story to write. Whether or not I work on any of these projects will not increase the amount of story there is to tell, and these will extend the overall OOTS experience between now and the day that it ends for good. I'm not going to pad the main story more or invent prequels for trivial minor characters; the number of prequels I still have planned is pretty much fixed in my mind, I just can't publish them until certain facts have been revealed in-comic so that they aren't massive spoilers for future events.

So, the choice isn't between "this stuff" and "more of the main strip," it's between "this stuff and the main strip" and "just the main strip." I appreciate the compliments, but part of good writing is knowing when not to drag a given plot out and beat it to death. I don't want OOTS to be the webcomic equivalent to a TV series that goes 11 seasons when it should have only gone 7.

Sunken Valley

2011-09-02, 09:10 AM

I don't want OOTS to be the webcomic equivalent to a TV series that goes 11 seasons when it should have only gone 7.

So does this mean that there will be 7 non-prequel books? Also your comment on prequel books give strong hints that Prequel book -2 will be Order of the Scribble orientated, as they are the only major group whose backstory has not been revealed.

pendell

2011-09-02, 09:18 AM

I don't want OOTS to be the webcomic equivalent to a TV series that goes 11 seasons when it should have only gone 7.

And this is why I'm a fan. Bill Watterson and Lynn Johnston were comic strip geniuses because they had the good sense to end their stories when they ran out of things to say. Compare and contrast with the zombie-like Peanuts which still runs in some newspapers despite the fact that the author has been dead for more than ten years!

I suppose some people will keep flogging a dead horse for money long after it's not only expired, but decayed to bone. Thank God -- and thank Rich -- OOTS won't suffer that fate. Better to go in a blaze of glory.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

silversaraph

2011-09-02, 09:54 AM

Hmm... It seems to me that everyone liked the "prince of Denmark" story and not the Julio one. Definitely the other way around for me. The latter was funny and action-packed, while the former kinda droned on forever.
and...

On the back cover it said that "hardcore stick figure porn" was left out of the book. Was there softcore stick figure porn? If so, I missed it. :smallfrown:

martianmister

2011-09-02, 10:05 AM

Stick tales > Other stuff. :smalltongue:

2011-09-02, 11:09 AM

Well, count me in the minority that wants more 4E OotS tales. While I am an almost exclusively 4E DnD player these days, and some of the jokes originally came off to me as a bit harsh; I understand that you have done much the same for 3.5 in previous strips, and that it probably only seems more diluted because it was more spread out (take the dragon strip devoted to obscure and "complicated" combat moves like grappling and overrun, for example). Furthermore, most of the shots at the system were perfectly legitimate (in particular, the strategy employed by the 3.5 OotS by attacking at long range WOULD be a major problem for almost all 4E parties), and in retrospect, it effectively displays several problems with 3.5 as well (surprising absolutely no one, it was spells cast by 3.5 Durkon and V that dominated the final battle between the two parties, in addition to a deluge of consumables).

Just seeing more references to the system I run, play, and prefer would be awesome. And in any case, the 4E version of the OotS seems fun enough in and of itself, with tons of joke possibilities popping up in everyday combat for them (Commander's Strike was the best example from the strips themselves, but there are others). Seeing other characters like Miko, Xykon, Redcloak, and the Linear Guild in the 4E syle would be pretty awesome.

Regarding the rest of the book: the dragon strips were enjoyable, the Julio Scoundrel comic not so much. I'm not really sure what it was about the Julio strips that I didn't like, perhaps it's just I was never a fan of serial comic books in general. The art style was also somewhat off-putting to me. Most of the stick tales struck me as kind of forced, but I loved the over-the-top humor found in Greenhilt: Prince of Denmark. In my opinion, Belkar and Xykon totally stole the show there, especially Xykon's exaggerated version of his "canon" self (a little less violent, a lot more apathetic). I would say if you did more StickTales, definitely make them more like the Greenhilt story than the others.

NerfTW

2011-09-02, 11:22 AM

So, the choice isn't between "this stuff" and "more of the main strip," it's between "this stuff and the main strip" and "just the main strip." I appreciate the compliments, but part of good writing is knowing when not to drag a given plot out and beat it to death. I don't want OOTS to be the webcomic equivalent to a TV series that goes 11 seasons when it should have only gone 7.

You can even find plenty of examples in webcomics of this.

So does this mean that there will be 7 non-prequel books? Also your comment on prequel books give strong hints that Prequel book -2 will be Order of the Scribble orientated, as they are the only major group whose backstory has not been revealed.

Assuming your first line was a joke, we don't know the Linear Guild's entire backstory yet either. Straight off the bat we know Sabine's real loyalties and mission are still up in the air. The latest strip can be taken either way, especially given the title "Where her loyalties lie", which can be straightforward or implying she's lying to one of them. There might be details about Tarquin's group we don't know. Girard might still tie into it somehow, given that Tarquin knows him.

Blisstake

2011-09-02, 11:59 AM

Oppolo

2011-09-02, 12:52 PM

So does this mean that there will be 7 non-prequel books? Also your comment on prequel books give strong hints that Prequel book -2 will be Order of the Scribble orientated, as they are the only major group whose backstory has not been revealed.

There are plenty of major groups who haven't had their backstory revealed. The Order of the Scribble, the Linear Guild (and the IFCC), Tarquin's group (if he stays important to the story), Haley's parents (assuming her father stays important to the story). V's past hasn't been fully revealed, even though we've been given hints about her family and mentor, and it may be important.

Of course, there are still options that we don't even consider. Maybe the Snarl and the Gods will require a prequel? Maybe some inhabitants of the world in the Rift will necessitate a backstory? There are any number of options!

Capt Spanner

2011-09-02, 09:50 PM

I really enjoyed the Julio stuff. It was really nice to see more variety in the panel layout, and angles, and stuff. I'd certainly buy a book centered around him, partially because I think he has an excellent scope for new material: The Giant can have him do almost anything without worrying about spoiling the main plot, or becoming inconsistent with it. The writing style also comes from a different angle (as stated in the commentary) which makes this a doubly interesting angle to explore the creative possibilities.

The fairy tales were a bit of a mixed bag. Elan and the Beanstalk didn't tickle me much, and Goldleaf felt a lot like stuff I'd seen before, but the Hamlet parody was absolutely brilliant. It's a neat idea, but truth told I have the feeling there's only so long that particular joke can last before it outstays its welcome.

KingFlameHawk

2011-09-03, 02:00 PM

Really loved the book. I really enjoyed the 4th/3.5 wars as I started out with 4th edition and I liked a lot of the jokes in the section. I would also like to see more about them but also agree with others that an entire book about them may not be the best idea. What I think would work good would be in another book of short stories like this one 20 or so pages could be devoted to strips like in the begining of OoTS were every page is about one joke about the system and the Order are going through a dungeon crawl or something.

Also (And I apoligize if this sounds like complaning, it is not) I have a small question about the 4th strips as well. on page ten of theose strips 4th Roy says that he was planning to use Forced Retreat on the order, indication he has the Battle Captain paragpn path. But in strip number 18 he uses Skirmish Ploy from the Combat Veteran paragon path. Is this just a simple mistake or some joke I don't get or something. And if it was answered before in the forum I missed it so just direct me there if it is. Thank you.

The Giant

2011-09-03, 05:32 PM

Also (And I apoligize if this sounds like complaning, it is not) I have a small question about the 4th strips as well. on page ten of theose strips 4th Roy says that he was planning to use Forced Retreat on the order, indication he has the Battle Captain paragpn path. But in strip number 18 he uses Skirmish Ploy from the Combat Veteran paragon path. Is this just a simple mistake or some joke I don't get or something.

Simple mistake. Also one of the things that I disliked the most about writing the 4e section, I pretty much was forced to determine in advance all the powers they would use rather than keeping it nebulous like I do in the regular strip.

Katana_Geldar

2011-09-03, 09:37 PM

Giant, Roy could easily have been using a homebrew Paragon path that included both, similar to Elan's Dashing Swordsman.

Warren Dew

2011-09-04, 06:53 PM

Giant, Roy could easily have been using a homebrew Paragon path that included both, similar to Elan's Dashing Swordsman.
Or he was planning to use Forced Retreat only because he didn't realize he didn't have it.

derfenrirwolv

2011-09-04, 08:36 PM

More kingdom of the white dragon please! Thats one dragon that knows what they want and how to get it.

Swarm of puffins seemed odd, then i remembered that you can call a baby fox a baby, kit, cub, or pup. Or Larry.

Sunken Valley

2011-09-05, 06:24 AM

There are plenty of major groups who haven't had their backstory revealed. The Order of the Scribble, the Linear Guild (and the IFCC), Tarquin's group (if he stays important to the story), Haley's parents (assuming her father stays important to the story). V's past hasn't been fully revealed, even though we've been given hints about her family and mentor, and it may be important.

Of course, there are still options that we don't even consider. Maybe the Snarl and the Gods will require a prequel? Maybe some inhabitants of the world in the Rift will necessitate a backstory? There are any number of options!

Oh there are plenty of groups. There just aren't any major ones. Linear Guild and Tarquin can have bits of the book like Eugene GreenHilt and MitD did in SoD. But they can't run a whole book. Besides I think the linear guild as an organisation will be dead by the end of book 5. Nale and Sabine might get away but it's curtains for Thog, Z, YukYuk's free will and Anti Durkon. It also can't be anything in the rift otherwise the very existence of the book would be spoilerifc. The Order of the Scribble, if you just look at the front and back of the book, are not spoilerific. Thus they would be the best option. What is more, I think we are missing some big reveal from the Scribbles history (which is why Rich wrote this book instead of prequel -2). When we get that reveal, Scribble book won't be far away.

danielmayer

2011-09-07, 06:48 AM

I'd surely like some stories about "Black Elan" = Elan using or trying to get rid of the not-sure-if-it's-magical-black-sword. I loved the strip when it was published in Dragon and always waited for a sequel :)

Gift Jeraff

2011-09-07, 10:50 AM

Now that I think about it, I'm curious why more adventures in the Dragon universe isn't an option. I would have loved to see more of that snail.

Oh there are plenty of groups. There just aren't any major ones. Linear Guild and Tarquin can have bits of the book like Eugene GreenHilt and MitD did in SoD. But they can't run a whole book.I don't know, I feel a Linear Guild/Tarquin book has most of the basic ingredients that SoD had:-A villainous protagonist who seems like a nobody before the prequel (Nale/Redcloak).
-An antagonist who is sort of on the protagonist's side, but not really (Tarquin/Xykon).
-A tritagonist who is also sorta on his side (Sabine/Right-Eye).
-[A] Scribbler[s] we get to see more of (Girard/Lirian and Dorukan).
-The big, dumb comic relief (Thog/MitD).
-The small, wisecracking comic relief (Yikyik/the roaches).
-A fairly major subplot we get to see bits of (the IFCC/Eugene).

And the commentaries call O-Chul, Tsukiko, and the IFCC--all characters less prominent than the core Linear Guild--"major," so I think you're being a little stingy with who you consider major. :smalltongue:

pendell

2011-09-07, 11:36 AM

Having thought about it, and having reviewed SS&DT, I stand by my original assessment that, of all the features in the book, I would most prefer more Julio Scoundrel. This despite the fact that I liked Hamlet and the dragon tales comics better.

Fundamentally, Hamlet is someone else's story. "OOTS does Shakespeare" is great as a one time gag. I'm not sure I would enjoy it so much if I had the complete Shakespeare theater done by those characters.

The Dragon Tales, in a similar vein, are wonderful gags with the existing OOTS story -- but as Rich has explained, OOTS is a story with a beginning, a middle, and an end. We are past the halfway point. I'm enjoying the story but I don't want to artificially prolong it, or keep characters around once the story is done.

Julio Scoundrel, to me, has the greatest potential for an original and interesting tale -- if the character can be fleshed out somehow, make it so he doesn't constantly take all the oxygen on the screen. Give him sidekicks or a truly memorable antagonist.

This doesn't really exist in the Julio Scoundrel we've seen -- but then, it wasn't for several hundred strips before the OOTS story was really fleshed out, either!

So that's why, if I had to choose one feature to have more of , I'd choose him. Because to my mind he had the greatest potential for a truly new, original tale.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Edna

2011-09-07, 03:15 PM

Imagine the scene at our house last night after dinner: I managed to get my hands on our new book (the one *I* ordered and paid for), and had to put up with two kids and a husband hovering over me, ready to snatch the book if I dared to put it down for a moment. I did finally convince the kids that if they stopped interrupting me every five minutes, I would be able to read the book faster :smallsmile:

The best part of the book: Sticktales, especially Greenhilt, Prince of Denmark (an absolutely brilliant combination of OotS personalities with Shakespeare’s characters)

The worst part of the book: some of the boxes in Elan and the Beanstalk had dark text on a dark grey box, and were difficult to read for those of us with older eyeballs. Actually, a lot of the grayscale pages are harder to read than color ones, especially by the light of my bedside lamp, but I understand the necessity of keeping the printing costs under control.

I voted for “anything you put out in the future,” because I will! (This explains the two giant OotS posters upstairs, the collection of Christmas ornaments, the T-shirts for all family members, the Christmas cards in my drawer, the full collection of books, and the Twelve Gods clock on the kitchen wall.)

Capt Spanner

2011-09-07, 07:33 PM

Surfing HalfOrc

2011-09-07, 07:52 PM

Minor question, possibly based on faulty memory:

A long while ago, a Forumite member decided to "help" the other members by posting the first Dragon OotS strip, the one where they battle the giant land lobster thing (I'll remember the name after I hit submit). At the end of thr battle, Roy had X's over his eyes, indicating he was dead. But the Dragon Tales book only shows closed eyes, indicating unconsiousness. So for anybody with a paper copy of the first Dragon strip, was Roy killed by the chull(?), or just knocked out?

Sunken Valley

2011-09-08, 03:52 AM

WickedWizard17

2011-09-08, 09:18 PM

I had voted most happily for StickTales and "anything," but the former is what I really wanted to see. I was quite disappointed not to see tales from V or Durkon. I would LOVE to see our favorite cleric tell an OotS version of Snow White - and the Seven DWARVES! :smallwink:

Gift Jeraff

2011-09-10, 02:33 PM

Some things I noticed:

-Does the third snail strip indicate that Dragonverse Elan has some levels in Dashing Swordsman? Or were the puns just for the sake of punny-ness? :smalltongue:

-In regards to the cosmic orrery doodad in The Tragedy of Greenhilt, does that mean that the Outer Planes are actually at the center of reality, and all the mortal planes (each with its own set of Inner Planes) lay "outside" the Outer Planes? Or am I interpreting it wrong/looking too deep into things?

EDIT: I think I get it now: The Outer Planes are in a different "layer" or level of reality from the material and Inner Planes, based on my understanding of standard D&D cosmology.

ref

2011-09-13, 02:40 AM

What's a phonebook?

See, back in the days, people didn't own their own phone, there was like one phone in each house, and you couldn't take them with you when you went outside. So, in effect, when you used your phone you were calling somewhere, rather than someone.

There was also some big books that were just a list of all the family names that lived in a city, and what their phone number was, so if you didn't remember the number to the place you wanted to call, you could look it up there, because those non-mobile phones of old days didn't have memory, either.

Hiro Protagonest

2011-09-13, 02:49 PM

I'm in my mid-teens and I know what a phonebook is.

Did anyone else get the brunette wig joke in LRRH?

martianmister

2011-09-13, 05:12 PM

Did anyone else get the brunette wig joke in LRRH?

I did not.

The Black Cat

2011-09-13, 06:41 PM

This book has been chasing me all over Canada for a month, and it finally caught up with me today! And it was well worth it.

Started laughing from Xykon's introduction (no monks) all the way to the end (Hamlet, my favourite part). Also during the middle. (I really enjoyed the 4th dimension from a tactical battle standpoint, though I do not particularly care about 4E jokes).

I love these books so much.

OracleofWuffing

2011-09-17, 07:14 PM

Clearly, the solution is to have an unrelated anthology of a fourth edition Julio Scoundrél depicted in a more realistic art style narrating a collection of stories. Underwater. :smalltongue:

Finally got around to reading the book, being one of the folks that got it in the first few days they started to arrive. :smalltongue: I kind of felt that the 4th edition team kind of got bogged down a bit in explaining the extended gag and trying to talk peace, basically Roy being what Roy would do in the situation. My curiosity just wants to see what they'd do when diplomatic processes aren't as viable as it was in this situation, as well as other differences in the universe (Miko being an Avenger and also possibly replacing Belkar, for example, was really neat for me).

goblin mook 42

2011-09-20, 04:24 PM

Arrowstorm122

2011-09-20, 05:35 PM

My favorite is still the Fourth Dimension, but StickTales on a second spot!

The "other dimensions" page was probably a favorite, And I could see myself reading 100 pages or more with the Order of the Stick in them :smallsmile:

FireDrake

2011-09-22, 06:32 AM

I've finally got my copy. I ordered it with The Shortening, and I'm in the UK so I knew it'd take ages. Right now I'm just glad it's arrived before I leave for university.

I voted Sticktales, Another Anthology and I'd buy anything you release.

The Julio Scoundrel chapter was definitely my least favourite. I wasn't a big fan of the art-style, (I'm guess I'm just too used to the lack of shading on stick-figures) and I wasn't particularly keen on Julio's character in the first place. However I did like the Pirate Mailbag page, especially the letter complaining about the art-style not being 'realistic' enough.

I've recently bought and skimmed over all the 3.5e core rulebooks, and I hope to start playing DnD when I get to uni, so I actually understood most of the Dragon Comics, all of which were fun to read. I even felt a bit of the nostalgia on the last page, despite never having read Dragon magazine.

I don't really know anything about 4e, but Invaders from the 4th Dimension was interesting and funny. I liked the MitD joke, the Larry Gardener appearance, and Belkar's death... twice. (which is funny considering what the oracle told us a while ago)

My favourite section by far was StickTales. While I'm not all too familiar with Hamlet I got enough of the references to make it funny. My favourite story was Elan and the Beanstalk, especially page 11 where Roy comments on his familiarity with the falling rules, but mostly because of the gag based on where the giant lands (swings, slides and a see-saw... hmm?)

Overall another brilliant release from Rich Burlew. But is it bad that I'd actually really like to see "Meticulously preserved scans of the stick figure comics Rich drew when he was 12 years old". I mean come on, maybe just one Mr. Demon comic scan as bonus material at some point :D

Sunken Valley

2011-09-24, 11:19 AM

Hello.

I voted for 4e OOTS, Stick Tales and anything you put out (although I will not be buying any preorders again).

Julio I didn't like. Don't think it holds up well as a book.

I know Rich finds an unrelated anthology hard to write and it shows. Didn't vote for this.

4e OOTS was fun. The references made me want to try out 4e. One question about this: if the order are 700ft away from 4e Order, how come maximised fireball hits? Would it not stop at 250ft? I would like to see (once comic is done) a "4e order abriged" showing briefly how the comic would have worked if they'd been using 4e.

Stick tales was not as good as 4e OOTS. I still would like this. V and Durkon stories.

Although some options are not on there and these are my true choices: Prequel book -2 on LG and Scribble and using the spare time to focus on the comic and thus books 5, 6 and 7 (there won't be a book 8. Not enough story for book 8).

Crisis21

2011-09-24, 11:08 PM

I finally got my copy the other day and I have to say I love it!

The adventures of Julio Scoundrel were fun, the 4e OotS was amazing, and the Stick Tales were hilarious!

Though, I have to say my favorite bit was the Vastly Over-Templated Snail. A recurring villain who is more incompetent than any member of the Order itself! That alone was worth the price of admission. I'd love to see him return for another round of humiliating defeat in the future.

grimbold

2011-09-25, 04:21 AM

a julio scoundrel book?
nerdgasms

YES

Sunken Valley

2011-09-25, 03:22 PM

Does the Giant still read this thread? If he does I have some questions please:

1. Was the maximised Fireball that was able to travel 700ft a mistake or V using the Forgotten Range feat? Because Fireball should only travel 200 or so ft.

2. What level are 4e OOTS? 3.5OOTS in this non-canon extract are 11th level. If 4e OOTS were 11th level they'd be fighting a threat beyond their power. So what level were they?

3. In the 4e part of the book, 4e Belkar jokes about American Greetings sueing a webcomic in a heart beat. Did this happen?

4. What is the monster that Psteve kills?

5. Does 4e Elan have a homebrew "prestige class"?

6. When Elan fights the snail, why does he make puns, yet does not have the prestige class (armour messes with it).

7. In Golden Leaf, Roy mentions making an "athletics check". Is this a mistake or a reference to another rule system? Because a climb check should scale spikes.

8. Why is Belkar given such flak in this? In 3 out of 4 stick tales he is the antagonist, in the 4e bit he is only contributes by fighting 4e Belkar and let's not forget his nigh uselessness (due to his teammates competance) in fighting Linear Guild recently in the main comic. All he does is make his unique brand of humour. Is this you easing him out of the spotlight so he can "die"? I don't expect you to answer this one. You haven't been answering a lot of questions about Belkar recently.

Answer as many or as few of these questions as you like Rich.

Sunken

Kish

2011-09-25, 03:31 PM

I'm not Rich, but I do have a few answers.

Does the Giant still read this thread? If he does I have some questions please:

1. Was the maximised Fireball that was able to travel 700ft a mistake or V using the Forgotten Range feat? Because Fireball should only travel 200 or so ft.

Fireball
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)

4. What is the monster that Psteve kills?

It looks like pictures I've seen of a Hordling, but I have no clue if that's actually what it is, of course.

6. When Elan fights the snail, why does he make puns, yet does not have the prestige class (armour messes with it).

I would guess this question should properly be, "Why is Dashing Swordman Elan wearing his armor?" but I could be wrong.

8. Why is Belkar given such flak in this?

Because the rest of the Order hates him. As well ask why Roy is openly pleased, in the main comic, that he'll be dying soon.

Hiro Protagonest

2011-09-25, 08:44 PM

2. What level are 4e OOTS? 3.5OOTS in this non-canon extract are 11th level. If 4e OOTS were 11th level they'd be fighting a threat beyond their power. So what level were they?
Er, where did it say that?

3. In the 4e part of the book, 4e Belkar jokes about American Greetings sueing a webcomic in a heart beat. Did this happen?
Read the thread. It was mentioned some time back.

5. Does 4e Elan have a homebrew "prestige class"?

Why? Bards already get cha to damage.

Sunken Valley

2011-09-26, 03:25 PM

Er, where did it say that?

Logic. Durkon and Vaarsuuvius only cast up to 6th level spells therefore they are at least 11th level. 4e Roy exclaims about how Katie (CR12) is more powerful than 3.5 OOTS. Therefore, 11th level.

Whiffet

2011-09-26, 04:48 PM

7. In Golden Leaf, Roy mentions making an "athletics check". Is this a mistake or a reference to another rule system? Because a climb check should scale spikes.

Reference to another rule system, specifically 4E. Another reference is the minions, who only have one HP each.

NerfTW

2011-09-29, 06:52 PM

3. In the 4e part of the book, 4e Belkar jokes about American Greetings sueing a webcomic in a heart beat. Did this happen?

It was Penny Arcade, for a "gritty" reboot of Strawberry Shortcake that mocked the original Alice game when it was announced. It involved BDSM and some rather risqué outfits. There aren't many more details outside the fact that they were sued, lost, and took the comic down.

You should be able to google more info.

factotum

2011-09-30, 01:53 AM

NerfTW

2011-09-30, 10:27 AM

Oh yes, I remember that...pity the actual comic isn't available anymore, it was great! Can't help but feel that American Greetings might not have bothered if it weren't someone as big as Penny Arcade that tried it, though.

Correction, they tried it because it was someone as small as Penny Arcade. They were nowhere near "big" at the time. They were still two guys getting scammed in publishing deals who were barely making money off their work when that incident occurred.

Palthera

2011-09-30, 10:47 AM

Reference to another rule system, specifically 4E. Another reference is the minions, who only have one HP each.

3.75 (Pathfinder) also has "athletics" rather than individual skill checks.

Topus

2011-09-30, 11:48 AM

I find Xyxon very disturbing, even if it's a fictional character, so I can say that, for me, the whole price of the book is corresponded in a single panel: page 37, when the norwegian king (Hinjo) split the skull of the lich, in a cathartic "SMITE EVIL!".

However, i found excellent also the rest of the book, particularly the Stick Tales (they are wonderful!).
I'm not very interested in the rules jokes, i found them funny, but i prefer a work more narrative oriented, so i voted for stick tales and the anthology of mixed stuff.

I find Scoundrel funny, but he lacks the depth that other characters have been able to develope; maybe a big book about Scoundrel, depicting his whole life and adventures can make him more interesting, but now it's a sort of pulp character that, for me, is funny for short stories.

By the way, i enjoyed very much SSaDT :D
Thank you, Giant

Hiro Protagonest

2011-09-30, 12:09 PM

3.75 (Pathfinder) also has "athletics" rather than individual skill checks.

No. Thats only in 4e.

Sunken Valley

2011-09-30, 12:47 PM

3.75 (Pathfinder) also has "athletics" rather than individual skill checks.

What Mongoose said, but you are close. "Acrobatics" was a new skill created to replace Balance, jump and tumble. Not climb though. That's still it's own skill.

Unisus

2011-09-30, 03:08 PM

I really liked the book, so here my opinions to the selection above:

Julio Scoundrel: I'm still searching for the earlier episodes, especially for #73 and #120. Yes, i really would like to get through all his adventueres (which should make more than only one book, i guess *smile*)

4th-Edition-OotS: As funny as they could be, i don't think there is much room for more than a few stories, as all the good RPG/Fantasy-gags and quotes are already part of the "original" OotS and would somehow feel repetitive if reused for OotS4.

StickTales: Please more of them - a whole book of them (maybe with one or two strips with the 4th-Editioners at the borders) and of course a story told by V.

Anthology: Also a good idea, especially if there are not enough StickTales for a whole book or if Scoundrels adventures can not be recollected.

Fantasy in other art-style: i really don't know. The Order of the Stick cought my heart with it's humor mostly - maybe i would give a more realisticaly drawn comic a try, but don't count on that. It's more the spirit that has to catch me, not the art.

Anything: definitely not. I only buy things that i like or at least am sure to like, but i'd never buy something just because it exists.

So, as i did not find Scoundrel-comics anywhere in the net (maybe i did not search hard enough?) i guess they don't really exist, the problem with 4th-Ed-OotS is obvious and the StickTales may not sum up enough for a whole book - when can we have the next Anthology? ;)

Palthera

2011-09-30, 05:06 PM

What Mongoose said, but you are close. "Acrobatics" was a new skill created to replace Balance, jump and tumble. Not climb though. That's still it's own skill.

Bleh, I'm playing a wizard. I knew it began with an "a". :D

Avalon2

2011-10-02, 10:51 AM

Well, let's see:

Julio Scoundrel: Really liked the art and thought it was a good change of pace, and might like to see more strips in books forthcoming.

Realm of the Dragon: For one page, it was nice, and definitely funny, but too brief. If the OOTS characters had been there, it might've been more interesting.

The Dragon Tales: Although I'm not too familiar with the Dungeon companies, I did get the Wiz of the Coast and D/D references. However, I absolutely didn't understand the Room of Odd-Looking People (not my era, maybe?)

The Magazine Strips: Hilarious random stuff. Totally busted up during the Clyde the Conjurer and Psteve strips.

Invaders From the Fourth Dimension: Cute. I especially liked the part where they battle the other hobbies.

Stick Tales: Goldenleaf was lame, but then it was supposed to be. The others were cute. I didn't get the Hamlet reference, but Greenhilt was funny anyway.:smallsmile:

All in all, GREAT BOOK!!!

Unisus

2011-10-03, 02:50 PM

The Dragon Tales: Although I'm not too familiar with the Dungeon companies, I did get the Wiz of the Coast and D/D references. However, I absolutely didn't understand the Room of Odd-Looking People (not my era, maybe?)

The explanation on this room is found on the page before the comic #356 - it's just all the old comics that were running in "Dragon" earlier.

WoodStock_PV

2011-10-04, 07:05 AM

I finally got the book. Two months waiting for almost three hours of reading, but it was well spent three hours.

My favorite part was the little strip called "in the realm of the dragon" and the dragon OOTS strips. I voted for more sticktales and another anthology of unrelated stuff. I would be awesome to read a book with just some jokes for the sake of simple humor.. like the realm of the dragon strip, the Intermission strip and the dragon magazine strips.

All in all a good book well worth the waiting, keep'em coming giant!

Parlik

2011-10-06, 05:42 PM

Well would personally love to see a prequel with Dorukan's group, but I suspect you hear that a lot, hence the lack of it as an option

WickedWizard17

2011-10-06, 09:16 PM

\Stick Tales: Goldenleaf was lame, but then it was supposed to be. The others were cute. I didn't get the Hamlet reference, but Greenhilt was funny anyway.:smallsmile:

All in all, GREAT BOOK!!!

I've both seen and read Hamlet - and so oh MAN was Greenhilt hilarious!!!!!!

Well would personally love to see a prequel with Dorukan's group, but I suspect you hear that a lot, hence the lack of it as an option

YES oh my God I would LOVE to see that! But no way is it ever gonna happen, at least not til OotS ends (heaven forbid) and it could get done as a prequel or something. Otherwise there'd be way WAY too many spoilers.