Gestalt Wizard//Warlock

[Faraque]

My party is looking for a good arcane caster to solve the complete lack of one, as well as a ranged blaster since everyone in the party is a melee monster of some kind. From some of my perusing, it would seem that this would be the best combination of classes that allows all the arcane trickery I need, and unlimited blasting to boot.

The game is starting at 5th level, with a 5k gold budget. I kind of want to get into Incantatrix at 6th and run it to 16th. Basic Gestalt rules are in play, and the DM asked me not to cheese it up. This means while having access to the broken horse that is Incantatrix, I can't abuse it for ungodly cheese.

All that being said, can anyone help me sketch out a levelling plan for feats, skills, and build to make this work well?

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

If you don't want to be cheesy, don't take Incantatrix. The only way to avoid being cheesy with Incantatrix is to completely ignore Metamagic Effect and Cooperative Metamagic, which (along with the capstone) are why you enter in the first place. I guess you could enjoy the bonus feats and artificer-like wand usage... up to you.

5k is a bit stingy for 5th level. It also implies you're going to be under WBL the whole way, which makes warlock much less appealing. At-will invocations is, of course, a large part of their schtick, but reliably hitting UMD checks is the other half, and you're not going to have magic items to use. Look into Dragonfire Adept (Dragon Magic) for another form of at-will blasting.

You may also want to consider Magic of Incarnum classes... but I don't know enough about them to recommend anything. I just know that you *can* blast at will with certain abilities, and a lot of the abilities replicate magic items you won't have.

[Fouredged Sword]

Ask your Dm if you can take the prestige class that advaces both wizard and warlock abilities + gives you neat abilites to mix the two. Even if you give up the spell progression to turn it into a single progression class it would still be great for you.

If I remeber right it allows you to stick a spell into your eldrich blast. There are some great combos with that and fell drain / animate / weaken / freighten.

[Godskook]

Warlocks aren't as much blasters as they are alternate-weapon users who have better attack roll mechanics. You can't synergize element type for better damage, and without hellfire mechanics, you'll never get into 'nuke' territory. Compare with an optimized DFA, who can easily saturate most battlefields with energy damage, of the type least likely to get resisted. Combine with metabreath spells and 5-fold breath, and you'll say "pass me some more d6's".

[Faraque]

Would it be less cheesy to do something with HF Warlock and Legacy Champion? If I do that, I have to either convince the DM to use a book no one has, or I have to come up with a cheap way to restore the Con loss.

The money limitation is so I don't come in with stuff that overshadows the current party's gear. I still have a week to come up with the character and it's leveling plan, so I'm still flexible. There may well be better gear/money later.

Unfamiliar acronym: WBL?

Help convince me guys. I know I'm new around these parts, and I'm trying to catch up on reading a lot of stuff about the subject, but I would like opinions/ideas/builds from anyone.

[Halna LeGavilk]

WBL is Wealth By Level, the amount of gold you're supposed to receive.

I don't know much about Warlocks, so I can't help you there, unfortunately.

[Godskook]

Would it be less cheesy to do something with HF Warlock and Legacy Champion? If I do that, I have to either convince the DM to use a book no one has, or I have to come up with a cheap way to restore the Con loss.

1.Less cheesy than what?

2.Legacy Champion use to 'overclock' 3 or 5 level prestige classes is on the higher end of cheesy. Hellfire isn't the worst offender there, but it is cheesy none the less.


Unfamiliar acronym: WBL?

Wealth by level.

[Faraque]

Less cheesy than Incantatrix, seeing as under Gestalt, I can't do Incantatrix and Hellfire Warlock + Legacy Champion.

Also, thanks, both of you, for the WBL definition. I should have known that, lol.

[faceroll]

Warlock can cover black tentacles, flight, see invisibility, invisibility, dispelling, and serve as a source of reliable damage. On the other side, you've got the brutality of full wizard casting. Not super good synergy, but not awful, either.

Personally, I would go wizard5//factotum5 transitioning to wizard5/mindbender1/prestige classes you like 14//factotum20. I'm rather partial to Mage of the Arcane Order.

Factotum gets you sneak attack and int to damage & attacks with your ray spells, lots of skills, and extra actions.

[FMArthur]

Why not just take some reserve feats from Complete Mage to circumvent the whole Warlock thing entirely? They give you the same damage as regular Eldritch Blast with the same unlimited usage, and there are plenty of Wizard spells that can match Hellfire blasting. Go full Psion on the other side of the Wizard levels if you really need more blasting resources and versatility - not to mention the ability to generate multiple actions per turn to make use of your dual-standard-action gestalt.

[Zagaroth]

If you want a pure blaster, instead of wizard utility spells, you could consider warlock//warmage. A suite of damaging spells from warmage, reliable back up from EB, and some utility (see invis, flight) powers from invocations.

And both classes can cast in light armor. Sounds like you won't have much in the way of gold for bracers of armor and such.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Warlock is either a pitiful choice for a damage dealer, or it looks like an abuse of the rules. In this case, I wouldn't recommend using it for that purpose. Instead consider using archery-based damage, most likely in the form of a Wizard//Fighter.

I'd go Fighter 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Fighter 10// Wizard 3/ Master Specialist and other full casting prestige classes 5/ Wizard 2/ prestige classes 10. Definitely get Physical Prowess (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a) as it costs you nothing. Use the Thug variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) to get higher base skill points/level, get Knowledge Devotion (CC), and keep max ranks in all the creature-identifying Knowledge skills (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Nature, Religion, Planes). Use the Martial Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) variant to get more Fighter bonus feats instead of Scribe Scroll and your Wizard 5 feat. Fire Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfFire) will definitely be the best race to use for this. With two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) here's how I'd pick your feats:

Spell Focus (flaw), Point-Blank Shot (flaw), Rapid Shot (1), Precise Shot (W1), Weapon Focus (F2), Knowledge Devotion (3), Weapon Specialization (F4), open feat (6), Woodland Archer (F6), Ranged Weapon Mastery (F8), open feat (9), Manyshot (W5), open feat (12), Improved Precise Shot (F10), Improved Rapid Shot (F12), open feat (15), Greater Weapon Focus (F14), open feat (18), Greater Weapon Specialization (F16), Weapon Supremacy (F18). Those open feats at levels 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18 can be metamagic feats, reserve feats, Spell Focus, and other choices to improve your Wizard side. Possibly move Rapid Shot to your 6th level feat to get Otherworldly (PGtF) at 1st level, in order to use Polymorph to take the form of an Arrow Demon (MM3). If you get Incantatrix you can use Persistent Draconic Polymorph to stay in that form all day long, and probably deal more damage per round than anyone else in the party. Just be sure to get the proper strength bonus on your bows.

You should probably specialize in Conjuration with Enchantment and Evocation prohibited, and replace your Familiar with Abrupt Jaunt from PH2. Conjuration has the best crowd control spells, so you can throw those out as needed and full attack the rest of the time.

[Tvtyrant]

Reserve Feats remove the need for Warlock, since they grant you infinite mini-fireballs (or whatever the one you pick gives you). Then take something like Binder on the other side, which gives you lots of options without being overwhelmingly powerful.

[kardar233]

The only way I can see this working is with a melee Warlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708)//Gish combo.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Warlocks aren't as much blasters as they are alternate-weapon users who have better attack roll mechanics. You can't synergize element type for better damage, and without hellfire mechanics, you'll never get into 'nuke' territory.I'd disagree with you here. There's a cheap item in the MiC that lets you synergize elemental flavors very easily. And you can get into 'nuke' territory even without HFW, although that does certainly make it better. As a Warlock, you can Take 10 on UMD. Can you say 'wand of Divine Power' + Eldritch Glaive?
Compare with an optimized DFA, who can easily saturate most battlefields with energy damage, of the type least likely to get resisted. Combine with metabreath spells and 5-fold breath, and you'll say "pass me some more d6's".

And cry as the 2nd level rogue laughs at your inability to affect him in the slightest...

Granted, DFA's are fun, but they have some rather crippling weaknesses which you need to be aware of, not the least of which is Evasion makes things COMPLETELY immune to you (including Entangling Exhalation, due to the wording of 'anything the breath damages', combined with evasion = no damage).

[Faraque]

I appreciate all the replies to this thread.
I ended up going wizard 5/incantatrix 10/archmage 5//warlock 20.
The warlock side is giving me a simple, useable anytime ranged attack as well as permanent utility buffs.
The wizard side, I buff the party up and try not to get in the line of fire. I haven't been abusing incantatrix, per agreement with my DM, and we're having a good time so far.
I'm avoiding a lot of the pitfalls of cheese by not using spells like shivering touch, polymorph, alter self. I'm not trying to be the hardest hitting ranged attacker in the plane, but just provide fire support and have fun doing it.

Thank you again, everyone, for all the constructive criticism.