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breakdownjason
2011-08-06, 08:49 AM
So I have a session to run tomorrow (my group is alternating DM until everyone gets back into town so we can go back to our usual campaign) and I was thinking of having an entire dungeon full of trappy goodness. The only problem I have is that I'm absolutely TERRIBLE at utlizing traps in a fun yet still relatively deadly way. Any ideas/opinions/advice anyone can give me to run a good trap dungeon?

Yora
2011-08-06, 09:09 AM
http://blogs.woodtv.com/files/2010/02/Admiral-Ackbar-230x300.jpg

I think when making a trap based dungeon, it's highly important to not make it end as the rogue saying 2000 times "I search for traps" and "I make a Disable Device check".
To make it fun for everyone, the players have to know when they are facing a trap. Walking down a corridor and suddenly having a spear in the chest without any chance to prevent it except not entering the dungeon is not fun for anyone.
However, what can be great fun, is to have the trigger and part of the mechanism to be relatively obvious to the players. Then it's their part to come up with solutions how to circumvent the trap, prevent it from triggering, or protect themselves from the damage.

For example, have a corridor that has a back wall that constantly shots poisoned darts when someone tries to go down the hallway and reach one of the side corridors. When the characters reach the trap, put a corpse inside the corridor that is full with darts, so they know they should not just walk in there. Then one solution would be to take a large wooden board that the warrior holds in front of him, which allows him to walk down the corridor and put it in front of the holes the darts are shot from. Or have the players find out that touching the floor triggers the darts, which would allow a wizard to levitate to the dart wall and plug all the holes with tanglefoor bag goo.
The Disable Device skill would still come into play, when the rogue attempts to jam some gears that reset a trap. Everyone can try to jam an old dagger into the gears, but it requires a rogue with some ranks in the skill to do it in a way that the dagger does not simply snap when the gears start to turn. In some cases the party might have to work together to get the rogue to one of the mechanism by which he can disable the whole trap. Warriors could cover them or spellcasters could use their magic to get them safely to the other side.

Traab
2011-08-06, 09:28 AM
I would suggest doing layered traps. Basically, triggering one trap activates a second one further in. Or think of it as a rube goldberg device. You step on a trigger which launches knives at you, you dodge, but the knives hit a trigger that opens a pit trap, you hug the walls to avoid falling in but that triggers a wall crushing trap, etc etc etc. Its possible to disarm a trap and intterupt the sequence, but its a very tight window of reaction times. Also, there may be times when it would be a better idea to let the trap hit you in order to avoid triggering more traps that are deadlier.

The knife trap for instance wouldnt be lethal unless you got a really bad string of luck on the damage roll, but the pit trap could be easily lethal, so once your party sees the multi trap trigger for the first time, they will have to decide whether they want to let that trap hit them to stop the cycle, or try to dodge it out until they get a less dangerous trap they can accept the damage from, or the rogue is able to jam/disable the device before the next trap goes off.

SowZ
2011-08-06, 09:44 AM
Traps on top of monsters can be fun and deadly, (while you fight the zombies, beware of the traps!) but if the whole focus is traps be careful since the rogue is going to get a lot of action while the Barbarian is just going to be making fort saves. For the major traps, Fora is right in how to handle those. But even then, helping the rogue disable mechanisms is probably not the character concept the parties sorcerer had in mind. So just don't overdo it.

DontEatRawHagis
2011-08-06, 09:49 AM
I suggest mixing traps with combat. In my opinion traps have one main feature that makes them different than monsters, you want to see what they do.

ie
Traps end one of two ways:
I disabled the trap.
or
I activated the trap and the ceiling opens and wild mongooses fall with spikes on their bottoms.

Have a couple of obvious traps in a battle.

Traab
2011-08-06, 09:57 AM
Thats actually an interesting idea. Combat in trap filled rooms. The party can just work on avoiding the traps they know of, or they can try to maneuver the enemy into triggering the traps and being killed. Also, I once read a story where the hero and his group had to travel through a trap filled labyrinth that also had small squads of soldiers attacking from side passages constantly. They would wipe out most of the enemy, capture a couple, and force them to walk out in front of the party, so any traps they triggered would kill the enemy, and not them.

breakdownjason
2011-08-06, 10:26 AM
Well last time I ran a trap session, I had the party walk past a bunch of triggered traps and dead adventurers mixed in with the occasional active trap. When they got to the end of the dungeon (really it was just more of a spiral hallway, I had a dead adventurer covering the chest they were after. When they pushed his body off of the chest, BOOM!, everything in the dungeon reset. Of course they've all heard this story though so I don't want to do something else like that. There was a thread or post on the forum some time ago though about a kobold trap smith using adventurers to show off his latest designs to prospective buyers, so I was thinking of maybe playing off of something like that. For example...

Scene: The party has just stumbled into a wide mouth pit trap.

Enter Kobold and three mysterious figures.

Kobold - And this gentlemen is the Pit Trap XL5000. Wide mouth comes standard, and it's ready for weaponization with customizable runes. Market price is 7500 gold but I'll knock off an extra 10% if you buy the lair package.

DontEatRawHagis
2011-08-06, 02:06 PM
A friend did this for a campaign a while ago.


DM: You find yourself in an empty entryway with a door on the other end.

Players: We move foward
DM checks passive perception
DM: Under your foot you feel a latch triggered and the sound of rushing air coming from holes in the wall. However nothing else happens.

The first space was where most people died so the dart trap was empty there.

I had the idea of doing a challenge where the players are running away from a boulder down a trapped corridor. Traps that caused slow and disrupt movement. Have to figure out how long it would be.

hamishspence
2011-08-06, 02:15 PM
Dungeonscape's speciality is interesting traps, designed to work more like combat encounters.

Shadowknight12
2011-08-06, 02:19 PM
Have the players wake up in a dimly-lit room, manacled or chained to something, and have the traps be readily visible to them. After a few seconds of them gathering their bearings, have a Magic Mouth appear and say "Hello. I want to play a game."

Then fill the dungeon with traps that force them to horribly maim themselves in order to escape.

Bonus points if you make it all thematic and have some hypocritical ethics behind it all.

A gold star if the villain is an unkillable Mary Sue.

Traab
2011-08-06, 02:21 PM
Heh, just had a mean thought. Create a trap with a timered pressure plate on it. Then place it at the entrance to what looks like an unremarkable hallway, you know, exactly the sort of thing that would make an experienced group nervous. While the rogue or whoever is trying to find the trap you just know is there, the timer is counting down, and 10-15 seconds later, /click the trap is triggered, all because they stood there waiting for the rogue to check whether it was safe up ahead.

Make the first trap of this type not lethal, it will help create a mood where the party doesnt dare wait too long in any single spot, and could also cause havoc as they rush to avoid more timered traps only to stumble into regular ones because the rogue didnt have enough time to finish searching everything.

Yora
2011-08-06, 02:27 PM
I had the idea of doing a challenge where the players are running away from a boulder down a trapped corridor. Traps that caused slow and disrupt movement. Have to figure out how long it would be.
The problem with such traps is, that it works well in video games, where you can die 10 times until you figure out the right sequence. In a pnp game, you have only one shot at it, and as the number of chances to make mistakes increases, the probability to make at least one fatal mistake is approaching 100%.

DontEatRawHagis
2011-08-06, 03:37 PM
The problem with such traps is, that it works well in video games, where you can die 10 times until you figure out the right sequence. In a pnp game, you have only one shot at it, and as the number of chances to make mistakes increases, the probability to make at least one fatal mistake is approaching 100%.

I figured that out in a way, not realistic but good enough to keep it from killing the players all the time. The boulder has three stages of momentum that changes based on if it comes into contact with obstacles(Note this is not the real stat block I made):

Barreling Boulder:
Trait Speed Stages: At the end of each move action that the boulder makes without hitting an obstacle or player the boulder gains momentum and changes to a different stage(First: Slow, Second:Average, Third: Fast)
Trait Full Stop: If Boulder is stopped by an immovable object(Such as a stone pillar) the boulder destroys it, but is forced back to slow stage.
Trait Big Mover: Boulder always double moves.

Speed: Slow = 3(6), 6(12), 9(18)
Attack: When Boulder makes contact with a viable target it makes the following attack
Bash - Average attack Bonus at all stages
Damage: Based on stage(Slow does Low Damage, Average does Average, Fast does High)
Effect: Knock back 1 square, if the target is knocked back into another player they are both knocked back and they are both prone; Boulder moves down one stage. If player is knocked into a pillar they take +1d6 damage. Boulder's Speed moves down one stage.

Full stop is achieved when the boulder is not on slanted terrain. Where upon it goes down a stage each turn, after the slow stage it stops and can no longer attack.

Its meant for low level players and allows for use of abilities and skill checks to by pass it. Moves that cause slow and aren't poison or diseases, will work on the boulder, also if the players had a blunt weapon they could try to slow down the boulder with a good hit, maybe even cracking it.

Zen Master
2011-08-09, 07:46 AM
I think people misunderstand traps. They think that a trap is related - perhaps very directly - to a pressure plate that triggers a crossbow. Or to Indy Jones swapping a rock for a golden idol.

Of course, those are traps. but they are not terribly clever traps.

Um ... don't expect me to come with terribly clever suggestions, btw. Just ... opinions.

A goblin pulling a lever that drops portculisses at either end of the corridor the players are in is also a trap. Once trapped thusly, the next step is free for all - releasing swarms from the ceiling, archers firing from both ends, pouring in hot, burning magma, or whatever.

Fights that aren't what they seem are also traps - a room with a small squad of covering goblins, with invisible (or just hidden) ogres waiting in the wings is a trap. Or the ancient 'exploding zombie' trick (also known as the brass draconian trick).

Choke points can also be traps. Well - so long as the players cannot bypass them via teleport or the like. Back when drow all had levitate, I had one of their surface access points be a vertical shaft without stairs or handholds, at the bottom of which was a ring of arrowslits guarded by archers. The sheer dread the players felt at the thought of going down there still fills me with joy. They were level 9, after all, with their enemies only level 2. They almost died too.

Eric Tolle
2011-08-09, 08:14 AM
Any ideas/opinions/advice anyone can give me to run a good trap dungeon?

That cute but girl at the bar during "Retro Goth Vampire" night at The Basement says she's 21, no, 18 but....

...Oh wait, wrong sort of dungeon, wrong sort of trap. Never mind.

dsmiles
2011-08-11, 04:54 AM
Two words:

Grimtooth's Traps

DontEatRawHagis
2011-08-11, 11:53 AM
Half of the traps I see usually involve the DM being pissed off at the players for something they do all the time. Its a wrist slap, if your slapping the person's wrist with a broad sword.

For example:
Delvermatic Dicer and Malingerer Trap
A trap created because a guy's party kept opening secret doors without going through them. It is designed to kill a party of four. And to push the door opener through a fiberwire entrance. Thus showing the players if they come across a secret door they should never touch it.

LTwhitebread
2011-08-11, 01:14 PM
One of my favorite traps comes from Shamus Young (of twenty sided (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/) fame) and his campaign record. It was basically a standard pressure plate pitfall (step on the pressure plate, the floor falls out), except it activated on the fourth time weight is applied to it. This can make things somewhat interesting for clerics/wizards/other squishy types, as they tend to be near the center of the group. It's a simple, unusual twist that makes a standard trap way different.

Also, dire polymorph rune, causes the person to be turned into a squirrel. Useful for making intruders less scary and more manageable. Or a Hideous laughter spell, not terribly harmful, but weird and alerts whoever might be in the dungeon to the PCs presence.

B1okHead
2011-08-11, 03:07 PM
I just did something like this. The key is to allow other party members besides the rogue to do something.

erikun
2011-08-11, 04:56 PM
These seem like they would be recommended reading.

http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/90/bad-trap-syndrome/
http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/91/bad-trap-syndrome-curing-the-bad-trap-blues/

Basically, a bunch of traps that are just *roll* damage, or even *roll* ability damage, tend to be rather boring. You go in, you disable or trigger what's there, you leave to heal up. The trap-or-die variety isn't really much better, just requiring new characters rather than resting for a day.

Melayl
2011-08-13, 09:43 AM
Two words:

Grimtooth's Traps

Indeed. When I was younger (and my brother was my DM), we suffered through many a trap from Grimtooth, and enjoyed every minute of it. I think the "Harlequin Goose" was my favorite.

You should be able to find a used copy online somewhere. I know it won't help in time for the adventure you noted in the OP, but it will help later on.

Have fun!

Autolykos
2011-08-16, 01:49 PM
Thats actually an interesting idea. Combat in trap filled rooms. The party can just work on avoiding the traps they know of, or they can try to maneuver the enemy into triggering the traps and being killed. Also, I once read a story where the hero and his group had to travel through a trap filled labyrinth that also had small squads of soldiers attacking from side passages constantly. They would wipe out most of the enemy, capture a couple, and force them to walk out in front of the party, so any traps they triggered would kill the enemy, and not them.
That's pretty much the only good way to use traps. Make them (semi-)obvious, but deny the players the time to disarm them carefully (hacked solutions like using a shield to block a dart trap or pushing enemies in the trigger should work). Like they say, an obstacle not covered by fire is not an obstacle.
This can be combined with tailoring the dungeon to the defenders. If they use ranged attacks, turn parts of the dungeon into difficult terrain (bonus points if this is not detectable at first glance, like tripwires in a dimly lit room); if they are good at charging, use long, narrow passages with traps on their sides (poorly concealed pit traps work fine...).
Traps used in combat also don't have to be extremely deadly. Just a little damage plus the lost time (for standing up, climbing out of the pit or avoiding the spikes slowly sinking from the ceiling) should be enough to give the defenders the edge. During combat, even falling into a one meter deep pit trap can ruin your day.

Jay R
2011-08-17, 06:16 PM
However, what can be great fun, is to have the trigger and part of the mechanism to be relatively obvious to the players. Then it's their part to come up with solutions how to circumvent the trap, prevent it from triggering, or protect themselves from the damage.

For example, have a corridor that has a back wall that constantly shots poisoned darts when someone tries to go down the hallway and reach one of the side corridors. When the characters reach the trap, put a corpse inside the corridor that is full with darts, so they know they should not just walk in there.

Right. A clear, obvious trap that they then have to think about how to get past. And while they try to figure out the non-existent trap, the goblins who left the corpse there attack from the rear.

Jalor
2011-08-17, 10:16 PM
The players in my Planescape campaign once found a portal to Eberron and attempted to rob a House Kundarak bank. Cue trap-filled dungeon; mainly Spell Turrets from DMGII and illusion-based obstacles. There's one in particular that deserves special mention, because it was the most devious thing I could come up with and was actually intended to kill at least one player.

The vault/portal room had a pair of magical doors leading to it; when the outer door opened, the inner door slammed shut, and when the inner one opened, the outer one closed. Once inside the room, they'd have to contend with multiple higher-level than usual Spell Turrets, all of which Summoned monsters in addition to hitting them with Streamers, Wrack, and Orb of Cold. As they battled, they'd have to make periodic Constitution checks or fall unconscious. Why? The air was an illusion. The room was actually a sealed vacuum, and those strange double doors were a magical airlock.

Unfortunately, my players managed to brute-force this trap without even realizing it. The Wizard's preferred methods of attack were Fireball and Disintegrate, and he managed to destroy BOTH doors while fighting blinded. Trapfinding, Michael Bay style.