Optimized Sorcerer

[The Underlord]

What would an optimzed sorcerer's spell list look like at level 10?

[Zaq]

Optimized for what? There's no gold standard of optimization.

[Hanuman]

Detect Magic

Magic Missile

Wings of Cover

Benign Transposition

For up to level 10, these are must have.

Personally, I'd go with Wall of Stone and Sound Lance just for kicks.

[MrRigger]

It really depends on what you're optimizing for. Sorcerers have a limited number of spells known, so a sorcerer optimized for bringing the pain (see the Mailman Sorcerer for more information) is going to look a lot different than one who is optimized for battlefield control. And both of those spell lists are going to look different from a sorcerer who focuses on enchantment and illusion.

Generally, though, there are some standouts that belong on most Sorcerer spell lists. The ones listed above are pretty useful, and some more that I can think of off the top of my head are listed below.

Wings of Flurry
Ruin Delver's Fortune
Orb of X (just pick one, I like Fire for the daze rider effect)
Wall of X (just pick one, you only need so much BFC)
Silent Image
Charm Person
Polymorph (even if you don't abuse it as hard as possible, it's still one of the best buffs around)

Really, if you're looking to add it to your spell list, ask yourself if it's a spell you can see yourself using multiple times in a day, or at least once a day. Any sort of situational spell (Break Enchantment, Identify, etc.) should be left to the wizard or kept to scrolls.

MrRigger

[The Underlord]

i want to optimized for battle field control

[Talya]

i want to optimized for battle field control

Thanks to one word in the Sorcerer class description...



A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list

...the door is open to select a few spells not on that list. Your DM should be consulted, of course, but if you are going battlefield control, there's no reason not to take one of the best battlefield control spells in the game:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/plantGrowth.htm

Other candidates: Solid Fog, Cloudkill, Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Evocation. You must take Ruin Delver's Fortune and an Orb of [Energy] spell, regardless.

[The Underlord]

You must take Ruin Delver's Fortune and an Orb of [Energy] spell, regardless.
what source is Ruin Delver's Fortune?

[erikun]

i want to optimized for battle field control
There are a few Sorcerer-only spells which are probably quite useful. You will also want to make a few choices between similar spells, such as Dimension Door (4th level) or Teleport (5th level). Beyond that, you'll probably want these spells at least - although even these could be passed on, if say you have an item that will grant flight or Web at will.

2nd level - Web, Invisibility
3rd level - Stinking Cloud, Fly
4th level - Black Tentacles, Solid Fog
5th level - Wall of Stone

Also, decide between Shadow Conjuration/Shadow Evocation now or their stronger cousin spells later.

[Talya]

what source is Ruin Delver's Fortune?

Spell Compendium. It's a defensive spell, not a BFC spell, and while both sorcerers and wizards can take it, it's useless to a wizard, and godlike to a sorcerer. It is a 4th level spell that is cast as an "immediate action" (so you can use it as a response to being attacked) that adds your Charisma bonus to a save of your choice, and gives you some nice bonus immunity in addition, for 1d4 rounds.

So, you make your spellcraft check and realize someone is attacking you with a Destruction spell? Cast Ruin Delver's, and suddenly you get +charisma bonus to Fortitude saves. Since you are pumping your charisma as high as you can get it anyway, it's damned effective.

[ericgrau]

Google "wizard spell list site:www.giantitp.com" for plenty of ideas. Most of these lists tend to be battlefield control focused. The only difference for a sorcerer is to focus on spells a wizard would always prepare, not merely have in his spellbook for a rainy day.

Here's my battlefield control sorcerer's spell list, it played out very well:



Level Name
0 Message
Read Magic
Detect Poison
Detect Magic
Open/Close
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Prestidigitation
1 Mage Armor
Shield^
Feather Fall
Alarm
Benign Transportation (SC)
2 False Life*
Invisibility
Melf’s Acid Arrow ^
Glitterdust*
Baleful Transportation (SC) ^
3 Invisibility Sphere ^
Shrink Item: on a rotating (caster level) cycle so (caster
level) items were always affected. Good for
carrying several large objects from the PH
equipment table.
Fireball
Protection from Energy
4 Dimension Door
Solid Fog*
Otiluke’s Resilent Sphere*
Greater Invisibility*
5 Stoneskin*
Wall of Stone*
Wall of Force*
6 Mass Bear’s Endurance*
Veil
7 Brilliant Aura* (SC)

^ Turned out bad in play
* Everything not ^ turned out good, but this was especially good in play.
Another mistake was not putting more morning buffs and such in the lower 3 levels of spells. I had way too many unused spell slots even after the final epic BBEG fight.

[Cespenar]

Google "wizard spell list site:www.giantitp.com" for plenty of ideas. Most of these lists tend to be battlefield control focused. The only difference for a sorcerer is to focus on spells a wizard would always prepare, not merely have in his spellbook for a rainy day.

Here's my battlefield control sorcerer's spell list, it played out very well:



Level Name
0 Message
Read Magic
Detect Poison
Detect Magic
Open/Close
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Prestidigitation
1 Mage Armor
Shield^
Feather Fall
Alarm
Benign Transportation (SC)
2 False Life*
Invisibility
Melf’s Acid Arrow ^
Glitterdust*
Baleful Transportation (SC) ^
3 Invisibility Sphere ^
Shrink Item: on a rotating (caster level) cycle so (caster
level) items were always affected. Good for
carrying several large objects from the PH
equipment table.
Fireball
Protection from Energy
4 Dimension Door
Solid Fog*
Otiluke’s Resilent Sphere*
Greater Invisibility*
5 Stoneskin*
Wall of Stone*
Wall of Force*
6 Mass Bear’s Endurance*
Veil
7 Brilliant Aura* (SC)

^ Turned out bad in play
* Everything not ^ turned out good, but this was especially good in play.
Another mistake was not putting more morning buffs and such in the lower 3 levels of spells. I had way too many unused spell slots even after the final epic BBEG fight.


Invisibility Sphere is an awesome spell, but for the right setting, I suppose. I've used it many times to great effect in a city-based game.

[ericgrau]

IC campaign was dungeon based and I already had 2 other flavors of invisibility. I think the sphere may be better for a wizard, in that he usually wouldn't prepare it until the day of an infiltration. Even then on a sorcerer you can just cast invisibility 8 times.

[Cespenar]

True, mine was a wizard, admittedly.

[Arundel]

These posts may be your friends:

Guide (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872258/Sorcerers_Guide_Your_help_wanted)
Stupendous Strategems (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871990/Solos_Stupendously_Superior_Sorcerer_Stratagems)

[Hanuman]

i want to optimized for battle field control
Walls, Ports, Clouds and

Soc/Wiz5: Dancing Chains (BoVD)

Level 10? Make 10 grapple checks or attacks per round, lasts 10 mins, climb 15' as a move action nocheck. Then there's all the questionable things you can do, and trust me, you'll be carrying around a lot of chains once you see how loosely worded this spell really is.

Move around on the end of a chain, chains go infinite speed, they can squeeze through arrow slits in a stone wall spell. If you make a stone wall around you in a cylinder you can control the chains from there while being in cover, if you want to escape move a chain infinitely fast to your position and make a climb check out the top to a sub-box (stone walls are highly customizable and cannot be uncast since they aren't magic), from there you can cast fly, invisibility, teleport, or whatever. The point being, having the spell active means that you can move vertically at any time up to 15' height.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

1. This trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4), do it.

2. Have something to attack every type of saving throw. Web, Glitterdust, and either Wall of Smoke or Stinking Cloud are pretty standard and still useful in the higher levels. If you get Sculpt Spell then Cloud of Bewilderment and Grease can be considerably more useful. If you get Fell Drain and/or Fell Frighten then Kelgore's Grave Mist combined with any immobilizing crowd control (Web, Black Tentacles, walls) is extremely brutal.

3. Try to attack a creature's poor saves (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm). Take one rank in each Knowledge skill that identifies creatures based on type (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Religion, Planes), you're automatically entitled to a check to identify a creature as soon as you see it. Always ask what their creature type is, and what the Knowledge DC is. Make a cheat sheet with each creature type, what knowledge check to use, and what its good/poor base saves are. The DC is its HD+10, so subtract ten from the DC and that's its level for what its base saves would be. Creatures with class levels such as humanoids, vampires, etc. will have different base saves, light armor is usually poor will and often fort (ranger/rogue), spell component pouch is poor fort/reflex, divine focus is poor reflex, heavy/medium armor/martial weapons is poor reflex and often will, for monks you just don't stand close enough to get full attacked by them, etc.

4. This guide's example prepared spells for a Wizard 10 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394.msg8048#msg8048) would be a good place to start. You won't need any 1/day buffs as spells known due to 1. above, so just pick what you expect to use most often and be sure to have a nice variety.