Optimizing melee damage, general?

[Bloodgruve]

How do you build an optimized melee charecter? I am trying to find ways to increase my melee damage. Generally will look at a rogue/monk for more hits with sneak attacks but with some research it looks like those classes and combo are not real great. Not real familiar with ToB either.

Is there a general rule to build melee for high damage? Do you look for more attacks? 2h vs TWF? High BAB vs utility? SA or added damage? Where do you find this damage? Interesting magical items?

I am currently running an Ardent/Divine Mind with a home brew feat to meld the classes for medium BAB and more PP/Powers. Taking powers like Hammer and Unleash Id beast(Hyperconscious, Malhavoc Press), and Claws of the beast to gain natural attacks.

Am I missing anything? Your Input is appreciated.

TYVM
Blood~

[Essence_of_War]

Pound for pound, the most efficient and powerful way to optimize melee damage is by using str based THF w/ power attack and some way to either improve your power attack returns, or allow you to power attack for a ton all of the time.

For example, the classic charger uses:

Power Attack + Leap Attack + Improved Bull Rush + Shock Trooper

Lets you power attack for your full BAB on a charge, then transfer your penalty to hit to your ac, and triple whatever your usual bonus to damage from power attack is. This can get out of control quickly. At my table, for example, we have a gentleman's agreement to just stay away from Shock Trooper unless we're planning to use it exclusively in the other two modes.

Psionic Characters can try:
Power Attack + Psionic Weapon + Deep Impact + psionic meditation.

Make a single attack at full BAB, resolve it as a touch attack. This allows you to freely power attack for full since you are bypassing most of the various armor types.

[Eldariel]

1) Spells/Powers are the biggest source of damage.
2) BAB either through Divine Power-type effects or native BAB.
3a) Power Attack with a two-hander. Combine with Charge-enhancing feats to taste (Shock Trooper and Leap Attack are the basics)
3b) Get a weapon with massive base damage die (max die Unarmed Strike on e.g. Psychic Warrior, Claws of the Beast power with max augmentation or such) and stack size increases like Improved Natural Attack, Greater Mighty Wallop, Expansion and company on it
3c) Get large amounts of precision damage (Sneak Attack, Skirmish, etc.) and get as many attacks you can, ensuring you can apply it as consistently as possible (Swift Hunter, Penetrating Strike, etc.)


That's the easiest. Simplest non-caster high-damage build would be Barbarian 5/Frenzied Berserker 10; Frenzied Berserker multiplies your Power Attack returns, you get massive Strength-bonuses from Frenzy & Rage (Whirling Frenzy for extra attack), you can trade Fast Movement for Pounce as per Complete Champion "Spirit Lion Totem" class variant for Barbarian, etc. Then you just stack charge enhancers for thousands of damage per charge.

Your plain mauling abilities are pretty decent with super-efficient Power Attack and massive Strength. Add Improved Trip from Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) for extra Power Attack and presto.


Simple casters; Cleric using Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell to have Divine Power, Giant Size & Draconic Polymorph up all day (for example) combined with Greater Magic Weapon, Spikes and similar all-day buffs for ~100s Strength. That's all you really need to wreck faces.

Wizard with Shapechange, period. You don't even need anything else.

Psychic Warrior (or Ardent or Psion/Slayer) with Claws of the Beast, Form of Doom, Bite of the Wolf, Expansion, Improved Natural Attack, etc. for massive weapon damage dice.

Just few basics off the top of my head. Damage is really easy to get.

[Drachasor]

Optimizing melee pretty much requires getting a bunch of splat books. You can look up guides too. Personally I find it one of the more annoying aspects of the game.

The other option is to familiarize yourself with the ToB. Your damage will not be the highest possible, but it will still be quite good. You'll also be more flexible. If your GM allows it, this is the easiest and most rewarding route, imho. You can do really with with just the ToB and the PHB.

But a lot of that is for new characters. I am not very familiar with psionics, so I can't help you with your current guy.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Power Attack is the greatest source of melee damage in the game. Make it better with the feat Leap Attack, and multiplier effects like the Battle Jump feat, the Valorous weapon property, the spell Rhino's Rush, using a lance from a mount with Spirited Charge, etc. Most of those multiplier effects can benefit other sources of damage (but not sneak attack), but Power Attack will be the biggest contributor to your total damage dealt.

There are many ways to (ab)use Power Attack so that you can use it all the time and always hit. Using the Shock Trooper feat to take a penalty to AC instead of to hit is one of the most common, due to being high-BAB, non-spellcaster friendly. Another way is to make your attacks resolve as touch attacks, thus ignoring most of your opponent's AC, such as the spell (Persistent) Wraithstrike, a Brilliant Energy weapon (has drawbacks), the feat Deep Impact (only one attack per round), attacking with a Pyrokineticist's Fire Lash (Power Attack works on whips, it works on the lash), etc.

For your Ardent/Divine Mind, if he's of the proper alignment, just dip a single level of Pyrokineticist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) or one of its variants (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e) (sonic is the best choice) and take Power Attack, Point-Blank Shot, and Precise Shot. Wield the Energy Lash two-handed and Power Attack for your full BAB, but keep in mind it makes ranged touch attacks so you'll take penalties to attacking into a melee without Precise Shot, and your attacks will provoke AoOs. You could use Greater Concealing Amorpha to avoid the AoOs, and with Point-Blank Shot all your attacks will get +1 to hit and damage. Note that Power Attack bonus damage is the same as the weapon's base damage, so a Fire Lash deals extra Fire damage, which is why Sonic is the best choice since far fewer creatures are resistant/immune to it.

[Bloodgruve]

Is there any other way to boost your BAB other than class and Divine Power?

TY all for the great info, I can see the bigger picture now.

Blood~

[Greenish]

Is there any other way to boost your BAB other than class and Divine Power?Leadership and Warchanter or Kensai cohort.

Thrallherd and both as thralls. :smallamused:

[Bloodgruve]

Leadership and Warchanter or Kensai cohort.

Thrallherd and both as thralls. :smallamused:

Do these increase your BAB or +hit modifier?

TY
Blood~

[Greenish]

Do these increase your BAB or +hit modifier?BAB, of course, that's what you asked for. Listing everything that increases your attack modifier would be way too much work for me.

Of course, both of those might be considered more than little cheesy [edit] as cohorts.

Also, Warchanter only increases your BAB if it's below that of the highest BAB member of your group.

[Treblain]

Warchanter doesn't increase others' BAB until 10th level of the class. If it's a cohort, it's at least two levels behind you already, and probably loses at least one point of BAB from bard levels. So before you're 18th level, it's useless, and even if you're 20th level, your Warchanter cohort has a max of 17 BAB, which is only 2 better than medium BAB. Of course, your BAB is raised higher if you have another full BAB character in the party, but the first problem is still there; it's only useful in a narrow part of high-level play.

[Bloodgruve]

BAB, of course, that's what you asked for. Listing everything that increases your attack modifier would be way too much work for me.

Of course, both of those might be considered more than little cheesy [edit] as cohorts.

Also, Warchanter only increases your BAB if it's below that of the highest BAB member of your group.

Aah, TY, must not have read far enough in to them.

[Quietus]

There's also that weapon ability.. skillful, I think? That boosts your total BAB up to the Cleric progression if it's below that.

[Tvtyrant]

Sneak Attack is a good source of damage, especially if you go the "SA Fighter" route and use the BaB to get Weapon Finesse at level 1, and then switch to Rogue at level 2.

[Greenish]

it's only useful in a narrow part of high-level play.Same holds true for Kensai, yes, but the question I set to answer wasn't "what's practical", it was "is there any way to boost your BAB".

[Edit]:
Sneak Attack is a good source of damage, especially if you go the "SA Fighter" route and use the BaB to get Weapon Finesse at level 1, and then switch to Rogue at level 2.And lose boatloads of skillpoints? :smallfrown:

[Rei_Jin]

A custom item of Divine Power with an arbitrarily high caster level?

[Hiro Protagonest]

BAB, of course, that's what you asked for. Listing everything that increases your attack modifier would be way too much work for me.

Of course, both of those might be considered more than little cheesy [edit] as cohorts.

Also, Warchanter only increases your BAB if it's below that of the highest BAB member of your group.


Warchanter doesn't increase others' BAB until 10th level of the class. If it's a cohort, it's at least two levels behind you already, and probably loses at least one point of BAB from bard levels. So before you're 18th level, it's useless, and even if you're 20th level, your Warchanter cohort has a max of 17 BAB, which is only 2 better than medium BAB. Of course, your BAB is raised higher if you have another full BAB character in the party, but the first problem is still there; it's only useful in a narrow part of high-level play.

You need to read Inspire Legion again. It's the highest BAB in the group or the War Chanter's HD, whichever is higher.

[Greenish]

A custom item of Divine Power with an arbitrarily high caster level?Boosting the caster level beyond minimum would make it much more expensive at the cost of being a bit harder to dispel. It might well be cheaper to get two than to get one that's very hard to dispel.