(PF) Reloading Firearms quickly?

[koeldflare]

Hey guys,

I just got my copy of Ultimate Combat and was looking over the gunslinger and the firearm rules. I'm trying to build a character that uses 2 one handed guns, and quickly reloads them to shoot enemies multiple times in a round.

The question I have is this: Is there any way with pathfinder only rules that you can reload a one handed firearm faster than a move action? I would take rapid reload tog et it down to a move, but this still isn't very good. I'm not looking to carry between 4-8 guns on me to use in 1 full round, I just want 2 guns that I can load quickly.

TLDR: Is there a way to load a one handed firearm using ONLY pathfinder rules faster then a move action?

[Kenneth]

Yes, I cannot remember exactly what feats and such (like using grit points) you use, but It is possible at lvl 9 to be able to get off 5 attacks a round as a gunslinger dual weidling pistols.

this of course if 100% PF materials only.

if i had my books at hand I would bring specifics.. but alas. I do not.

[Curious]

Use Revolvers.

[subject42]

The gunslinger class can take the "Lightning Reload" deed, which can reduce your reload time. I think it maxes out at around 11th level.

[koeldflare]

Thanks for the quick responses. I must have missed the lightning reload deed when I was looking over the Gunslinger earlier. It seems to do exactly what I need, but it kinda stinks that you only get it more then 1/2 to level 20.

Quick question about Lightning Reload though. The wording makes it seem like even if you have Rapid Reload you can still only reload any particular gun, or one barrel of a gun, once in a round. I would certainly rule otherwise but what do you guys think?

[Starbuck_II]

If you had a scroll or levels in a caster class: Ultimate magic has a 2nd lv spell called Reloading Hands (last 1 rd/lv) and it reloads for you (but same time as takes you).
So that might help some.

[Luckmann]

Use Revolvers.

This.

After glancing at the Firearms rules for PF, the only way I'd ever play a dual-wielding Gunslinger (or Holy Gun, in my case; I really, really want to play a Paladin Holy Gun/Divine Hunter/Warrior of the Holy Light, with a single level in Gunslinger Mysterious Stranger for Grit points) is with Revolvers.

Everything else is just.. too much to be worth it. First to get the Dual-wield feats and then to get reloading done faster, it's just too much of an investment.

Edit: I just realized that if I did the aforementioned build, I could actually use Wisdom and Strength as dump stats. As a Paladin. Is there any race that gives a bonus to Dexterity and Charisma? :smallbiggrin:
Edit 2: Dhampir and Drow? That's like the opposite of what I wanted. T_T
Edit 3: How the hell could I miss Halfling? Fgdsfg! So yeah, Halfling Paladin, Fearless/Sure-Footed replaced by Practicality; a 6-Str, 8-Wis Paladin. :smallbiggrin:
Edit 4: Add Gun Tank archetype to that 1-level Gunslinger level, for the only reason as to give yourself full armor & shield proficiencies. They'll probably never get used, but without it, the Holy Gun Paladin archetype leaves you with only Light Armor. There's no downside to taking Gun Tank, since I'm only taking a single Gunslinger level anyway. It almost feels like cheating. :smalltongue:

[grarrrg]

This is probably a little out there, but I just stumbled across a feat and had a ridiculous idea.

Leaping Shot Deed (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/playtests/paizo---ultimate-combat/gunslinger/grit-feats/leaping-shot-deed)
move up to your speed and make firearm attacks at your highest base attack bonus with each loaded firearm you are wielding.

Now the Alchemist has a few new discoveries as of Ultimate Magic
Vestigial Arm (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/vestigial-arm-ex) and Tentacle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/tentacle-ex). These can, effectively, give you an extra "loaded firearm you are wielding" for every 2 Alchemist levels you have. (recommend stopping at Alch 4 and +2 arms)
That's (up to) 5 attacks at your highest bab.

Do with this what you will.

[Luckmann]

This is probably a little out there, but I just stumbled across a feat and had a ridiculous idea.

Leaping Shot Deed (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/playtests/paizo---ultimate-combat/gunslinger/grit-feats/leaping-shot-deed)

Now the Alchemist has a few new discoveries as of Ultimate Magic
Vestigial Arm (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/vestigial-arm-ex) and Tentacle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/tentacle-ex). These can, effectively, give you an extra "loaded firearm you are wielding" for every 2 Alchemist levels you have. (recommend stopping at Alch 4 and +2 arms)
That's (up to) 5 attacks at your highest bab.

Do with this what you will.
*quickly files this under 'A' for Awesome*

Oh, also, I couldn't help but to notice; "at your highest base attack bonus". O_o

[Bhaakon]

TLDR: Is there a way to load a one handed firearm using ONLY pathfinder rules faster then a move action?


The rapid reload feat reduces it to a move action, then using alchemical cartridges reduces that move action to a free action. If there's a restriction on the number times a single weapon can be reloaded in this way in a round, I didn't see it.

[glennfrogknight]

You can't take both Holy Gun and Warrior of the Holy Light/Divine Hunter, because they're both Paladin variants, and you can't take two different types of the same class. At least I heard that somewhere and it sounds very right.

EDIT: I guess you can, but neither can alter the same class feature, which at least Divine Hunter + Holy Gun do, Divine Bond. IDK about Holy Light.

[Silus]

This.

After glancing at the Firearms rules for PF, the only way I'd ever play a dual-wielding Gunslinger (or Holy Gun, in my case; I really, really want to play a Paladin Holy Gun/Divine Hunter/Warrior of the Holy Light, with a single level in Gunslinger Mysterious Stranger for Grit points) is with Revolvers.

Everything else is just.. too much to be worth it. First to get the Dual-wield feats and then to get reloading done faster, it's just too much of an investment.

Edit: I just realized that if I did the aforementioned build, I could actually use Wisdom and Strength as dump stats. As a Paladin. Is there any race that gives a bonus to Dexterity and Charisma? :smallbiggrin:
Edit 2: Dhampir and Drow? That's like the opposite of what I wanted. T_T
Edit 3: How the hell could I miss Halfling? Fgdsfg! So yeah, Halfling Paladin, Fearless/Sure-Footed replaced by Practicality; a 6-Str, 8-Wis Paladin. :smallbiggrin:
Edit 4: Add Gun Tank archetype to that 1-level Gunslinger level, for the only reason as to give yourself full armor & shield proficiencies. They'll probably never get used, but without it, the Holy Gun Paladin archetype leaves you with only Light Armor. There's no downside to taking Gun Tank, since I'm only taking a single Gunslinger level anyway. It almost feels like cheating. :smalltongue:

Since you seem to be in the know about Firearms more than myself, can two-handed firearms be fired one handed (like at a penalty)?

Armored Master/Gun Tank with a Tower Shield and a Shotgun. May not be optimized in any way, but the image is kinda awesome.

[Curious]

Since you seem to be in the know about Firearms more than myself, can two-handed firearms be fired one handed (like at a penalty)?

Armored Master/Gun Tank with a Tower Shield and a Shotgun. May not be optimized in any way, but the image is kinda awesome.

I believe you could manage this with enough levels of Phalanx Fighter, although it may only apply to polearms. Otherwise, no.

[TwylyghT]

take 1 level in summoner and make a bipedal 4 armed eidolon to follow you around and take reload actions?

hmmmm... now I want to make a Huge eidolon with eight arms, multiweapon fighting huge revolvers.....

[Curious]

take 1 level in summoner and make a bipedal 4 armed eidolon to follow you around and take reload actions?

hmmmm... now I want to make a Huge eidolon with eight arms, multiweapon fighting huge revolvers.....

Shiva? Since when were you a cowboy?

[Bhaakon]

Since you seem to be in the know about Firearms more than myself, can two-handed firearms be fired one handed (like at a penalty)?

Armored Master/Gun Tank with a Tower Shield and a Shotgun. May not be optimized in any way, but the image is kinda awesome.

Two handed firearms can being wielded one handed at a -4 penalty.

Also, I think there might be a way for a titan mauler (barbarian archetype) to dual wield cannons. They can enlarge while raging at level 14, and they possess special abilities to let them both use over-sized weapons and use 2-handed weapons one handed. Creatures of size category large and above can use siege firearms of one size category smaller as 2-handed weapons. So while raging a high-level titan mauler would be enlarged and therefore able to wield medium-sized siege weapons 2-handed. But a titan mauler's special ability lets them wield weapons above their size category, so they might be able to one-hand--and therefore dual wield-cannons (a large siege weapon, which a large creature would otherwise be unable to wield by hand). The big problem here--besides the fact that I'm bending a lot of RAW to shoe-horn in this ridiculous dream--is that I don't see the weights for siege weapons listed anywhere, so there's no way to tell if the character could even lift a cannon.

[Rising Phoenix]

Two handed firearms can being wielded one handed at a -4 penalty.

Also, I think there might be a way for a titan mauler (barbarian archetype) to dual wield cannons. They can enlarge while raging at level 14, and they possess special abilities to let them both use over-sized weapons and use 2-handed weapons one handed. Creatures of size category large and above can use siege firearms of one size category smaller as 2-handed weapons. So while raging a high-level titan mauler would be enlarged and therefore able to wield medium-sized siege weapons 2-handed. But a titan mauler's special ability lets them wield weapons above their size category, so they might be able to one-hand--and therefore dual wield-cannons (a large siege weapon, which a large creature would otherwise be unable to wield by hand). The big problem here--besides the fact that I'm bending a lot of RAW to shoe-horn in this ridiculous dream--is that I don't see the weights for siege weapons listed anywhere, so there's no way to tell if the character could even lift a cannon.

O_O... Dungeon crawls have turned to dungeon sieges ladies and gents...

[Luckmann]

You can't take both Holy Gun and Warrior of the Holy Light/Divine Hunter, because they're both Paladin variants, and you can't take two different types of the same class. At least I heard that somewhere and it sounds very right.

EDIT: I guess you can, but neither can alter the same class feature, which at least Divine Hunter + Holy Gun do, Divine Bond. IDK about Holy Light.You can take as many archetypes as you want, as long as they don't replace the same class features. Granted, Divine Hunter and Holy Gun overlap on a single replacement (Divine Bond) but if you actually take a look at the replacement, it is identical, except that the Holy Gun has to take a gun.

There's also some minor issues that I quib about here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11555290&postcount=101).

So I'm fully aware of the issues, but they are also extremely easy to reconcile and thematically, they just fit eachother much, much too well not to be done. Without reconciling them, your choice is basically between being a great ranged Paladin without guns or a crappy ranged Paladin with guns. :smallsigh:


Since you seem to be in the know about Firearms more than myself, can two-handed firearms be fired one handed (like at a penalty)?

Armored Master/Gun Tank with a Tower Shield and a Shotgun. May not be optimized in any way, but the image is kinda awesome.Eh, I don't really know that much about the actual firearms rules, but my gut says no. Unfortunately.

But as for the idea.. Adeptus Arbites much? :smallamused: It's awesome either way.

Edit: Oh, nevermind, Bhaakon to the rescue. -4 Penalty, not that bad I suppose. Not to realize an awesome character concept, anyway.


Two handed firearms can being wielded one handed at a -4 penalty.

Also, I think there might be a way for a titan mauler (barbarian archetype) to dual wield cannons. They can enlarge while raging at level 14, and they possess special abilities to let them both use over-sized weapons and use 2-handed weapons one handed. Creatures of size category large and above can use siege firearms of one size category smaller as 2-handed weapons. So while raging a high-level titan mauler would be enlarged and therefore able to wield medium-sized siege weapons 2-handed. But a titan mauler's special ability lets them wield weapons above their size category, so they might be able to one-hand--and therefore dual wield-cannons (a large siege weapon, which a large creature would otherwise be unable to wield by hand). The big problem here--besides the fact that I'm bending a lot of RAW to shoe-horn in this ridiculous dream--is that I don't see the weights for siege weapons listed anywhere, so there's no way to tell if the character could even lift a cannon.

It doesn't list weight? By RAW, that's, like, weightless then, amirite? :smallbiggrin: