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ShiningStarling
2011-08-08, 07:30 AM
The Paladin

Hit Points: d10
Alignment: Lawful Good
Skills: (4+Int. Mod.)*(lvl+3)
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Listen, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope

{table]lvl.|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spells|1st|2nd|3rd| 4th|D1|D2|D3|D4|D5|D6
1|+1|+2|+2|+2|Detect Evil, Turn Undead, Smite Evil 1/day, Aura of Good||1||||1||||||
2|+2|+3|+3|+3|Mettle, Lay on Hands||2||||1||||||
3|+3|+3|+3|+3|Smite Evil 2/day, Divine Health||2||||2||||||
4|+4|+4|+4|+4|Aura of Guarding, Bane of Undeath||3||||2||||||
5|+5|+4|+4|+4|Smite Evil 3/day, Divine Grace||3|1|||2||||||
6|+6/+1|+5|+5|+5|Evasion, Turn Evil Outsiders||3|2|||2|1|||||
7|+7/+2|+5|+5|+5|Smite Evil 4/day, Special Mount ||3|3|||2|1|||||
8|+8/+3|+6|+6|+6|Aura of Holy Wrath, Improved Smite||3|3|||2|2|||||
9|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6|Smite Evil 5/day, Graced Touch||4|3|1||2|2|||||
10|+10/+5|+7|+7|+7|Slippery Mind, Bane of the Infernal||4|3|2||2|2|1||||
11|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+7|Smite Evil 6/day, Special Mount Beatification||4|3|2||2|2|2||||
12|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+8|Aura of Shielding, Greater Smite||4|3|3||2|2|2|1|||
13|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+8|Smite Evil 7/day, Aura of Grace||4|4|3|1|2|2|2|2|||
14|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+9|Improved Mettle||4|4|4|2|2|2|2|2|1||
15|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+9|Smite Evil 8/day, Special Mount Improvement ||4|4|4|3|2|2|2|2|1||
16|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+10|Aura of Righteous Fury||4|4|4|3|2|2|2|2|2||
17|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10|Smite Evil 9/day||4|4|4|3|2|2|2|2|2|1|
18|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+11|Improved Evasion, Righteous Smite||4|4|4|4|2|2|2|2|2|1|
19|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+11|Smite Evil 10/day, Special Mount Ascension||4|4|4|4|2|2|2|2|2|2|
20|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+12|Holy Ascension||4|4|4|4|2|2|2|2|2|2|[/table]

Class features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Paladin is proficient with all armor and shields, as well as with all simple and martial weapons.

Auras: The Paladin gains access to auras over her career, but only one may be active at a time.

Spells: A Paladin gains the ability to cast a certain number of divine spells. A Paladin need not prepare her spells in advance. At the indicated levels she gains access to new spell levels, provided she has a high enough Charisma stat (10+ spell level in question). Bonus spells and DCs are determined by Charisma. The spell levels marked “D” are special domain slots. She may cast spells from any of her deity’s domains through these slots. She also gains the special power of one of the domains, chosen each day when mentally readying to cast spells. As the "D" spells are essentially domain slots, they are not eligible for bonus slots for high Charisma.

Detect Evil (Sp): The Paladin, at 1st level, gains the ability to discern whether or not a creature is evil by looking at them. The ability to do so is as the spell, but is always active, and is not dispellable.

Turn Undead (Su): A Paladin may turn undead as a good cleric of her level a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Cha modifier.

Smite Evil (Su): At 1st level, the Paladin Gains the ability to smite evildoers for a combat. This ability is usable 1 time per day at 1st level, and 1 more time per day at each odd numbered level. When a Paladin uses this ability, a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, she designates a creature she has determined to be evil, via Detect Evil or direct evidence, such as slaughtering an innocent creature. For one attack action or full attack action, she gains a bonus to hit against this foe equal to her Cha modifier, and a bonus to damage equal to 2 times her Paladin level. If the subject is not evil, or someone who has commited an evil act in the presence of the Paladin, then the ability has no effect and the use is lost.

Aura of Good (Su): A Paladin emits an alignment aura as would a Cleric of her level of her deity.

Mettle (Ex): Whenever a Paladin of at least 2nd level is subjected to an effect that allows a Fortitude or Will save for a lesser effect, her deity inspires her to instead suffer no effect on a successful save. She still suffers the full effect on a failed save. Any effect that would render a deity incapable of communicating on any level to the Paladin negates this ability.

Lay on Hands (Su): At 2nd level, the Paladin gains the ability to heal wounds without the expenditure of effort represented by the casting of a spell. She gains a number of points equal to 2*her Cha modifier*her Paladin level. These may be used to heal her or an ally at a rate of one hit point healed per point expended. They may also be channeled as positive energy for another purpose, such as harming the Undead. For this purpose, make a melee touch attack, the success of which will yield 1.5 times the expended points in damage, rounded down. The uses of this ability may be spread out as the Paladin wishes

Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, the paladin becomes immune to all diseases, magical and non-magical.

Aura of Guarding (Su): A Paladin is immune to fear starting at 4th level. This aura also grants a paladin and a paladin’s allies a +4 bonus against fear effects and mind-affecting effects, as long as they are within 20 ft. of the Paladin.

Bane of Undeath (Ex): A Paladin receives special training in the hunting and destroying of the undead, in arts martial and otherwise. At 4th level, the Paladin gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, and damage rolls when they are used against the undead, similar to the Ranger’s Favored Enemy ability. This bonus increases by 2 every 4 levels, to a maximum of +10 at 20th level.

Divine Grace (Su): At 5th level, the Paladin gains her Charisma as a divine bonus to all her saving throws.

Evasion (Ex): As the Rogue ability of the same name, except that it is attained at 6th level, and any effect that would render a deity incapable of communicating on any level to the Paladin negates this ability.

Turn Evil Outsiders (Su): At 6th level, the Paladin gains the ability to turn evil outsiders as a cleric with the Good domain of her level a number of times per day equal to 3+ her Cha modifier.

Special Mount (Sp): As detailed in the PH, p.44-45, but at 7th level. Also, the mount may go from the celestial realms and back at the Paladin’s whim. However, the mount must be in the celestial realms for a full minute for any healing effect to occur.

Aura of Holy Wrath (Su): At 8th level, the paladin emanates a will to destroy evil. All creatures within 20 ft. of the Paladin gain a +2 sacred bonus to hit and to damage rolls against Evil creatures.

Improved Smite (Su): At 8th level, the Paladin’s smite is treated as a Good, Lawful, Magic, and Silver Attack for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction whilst smiting.

Graced Touch (Su): As a standard action, once per day, starting at 9th level, the Paladin may touch a willing subject, granting them the same benefit that they themselves receive from the Divine Grace ability as a morale bonus. The Paladin does not lose her own bonus through this action. This lasts for 24 hours and may not be dispelled.

Slippery Mind (Ex): When a Paladin of at least 10th level is subject to an Enchantment spell or effect and fails her save, she may attempt the save again 1 round later. This 2nd save does not then trigger another use of this ability. Any effect that would render a deity incapable of communicating on any level to the Paladin negates this ability.

Bane of the Infernal (Ex): At 10th level, the Paladin receives rigorous training in eliminating the denizens of Lower Planes. She receives a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, and damage rolls when they are used against evil outsiders. This bonus increases by 2 every 3 following levels, to a maximum of +8 at 19th level. In addition, she may now channel her Lay on Hands as a touch attack to deal damage to evil outsiders as well as undead, though against evil outsiders, it is a 1:1 ratio of points expended to damage dealt, rather than the 1.5:1 against undead.

Special Mount Beatification (Su): At 11th level, the Paladin’s mount projects a Bless effect constantly for the Paladin and her allies, and projects a Bane effect constantly for her foes. Both are treated as if cast by someone of the Paladin’s level in caster levels. If dispelled, the effect is suppressed for 1 round, and then automatically reactivated. Needless to say, the effects are not projected when the mount is not present. The Paladin may choose to suppress this ability if she wishes.

Aura of Shielding (Su): At 12th level, the Paladin begins constantly projecting an aura granting her and her allies a +4 sacred bonus to AC, as long as they are within 20ft.

Greater Smite (Su): At 12th level, the Paladin may use her Lay on Hands to channel damage through her smiting, as she would with a touch attack normally. This only works on the undead and evil outsiders, as with the touch.

Aura of Grace (Su): At 13th level and beyond, The Paladin projects her grace to her allies. All allies within 20 ft. of the Paladin receive the bonus she receives from her Divine Grace ability. Those under the effect of Graced Touch do not gain the bonus twice, but the Graced Touch will carry on if the subject leaves the Aura.

Improved Mettle (Ex): At 14th level, the Paladin not only suffers no ill effect when successfully saving against spells and effects offering a partial effect on a successful Will or Fortitude save, but only suffers the specified partial effect when she fails her save. Any effect that would render a deity incapable of communicating on any level to the Paladin negates this ability.

Special Mount Improvement (Su): At 15th level, a Paladin’s Special Mount gains an additional 10 feet of base land movement. In addition, the mount gains a supernatural ability to fly at its land speed with good maneuverability. Its load bearing capabilities are the same flying or running, and any affect that would render it unable to run also renders it unable to fly. If something suppresses its ability to fly, it falls at 60 ft. per round, and takes no damage on landing, and lands safely even with a load.

Aura of Righteous Fury (Su): At 16th level, the bonus from the Paladin’s Aura of Holy Wrath increases to +4. Also, once per encounter, each ally may make one attack or full attack action as if it was affected by your smite ability, as long as they are in the Aura when they do it.

Improved Evasion (Ex): At 18th level, whenever the Paladin is subject to an effect that allows a Reflex save for half damage, she instead suffers no damage on a successful save, and only half damage on a failed save. Any effect that would render a deity incapable of communicating on any level to the Paladin negates this ability.

Righteous Smite (Su): At 18th level, the Paladin’s smite instead adds twice her Cha bonus to hit and 3 times her level in damage. In addition, any time an undead creature is smitten, it is subject to a turn undead check, treated as if it originated from the Paladin. Both rolls may be substituted by the to hit roll of the smite. Also, any time an evil outsider is smitten; it is subject to a Banishment spell, caster level equal to the Paladin’s level. The Paladin herself, her weapon, and her holy symbol all count as objects the creature despises. These effects do not use spells or turn attempts.

Special Mount Ascension (Su): The Paladin’s mount at 19th level becomes much tougher and more terrible. The mount gains 4 more hit dice, the Improved Natural Attack feat for all its natural weapons, the Trample feat, and adds 20ft to its base land speed. It is also constantly under the effects of a Freedom of Movement spell, not dispellable or suppressible.

Holy Ascension (Ex): At 20th level, the Paladin becomes a true herald of a deity’s ideals. Her type changes to Outsider (native), but may still be returned to life by any means that would have worked before her transformation. She gains damage reduction 15/evil and magic. She gains spell resistance equal to 11+ her Paladin level+ her Cha modifier. Her skin naturally deflects attack, giving her a base natural armor of +2. She gains the angel subtype and all its benefits. The auras gained from this subtype (the Magic Circle and the Globe) are subject to the same restictions on the number of auras a Paladin may have active at a time as the ones gained from this class, meaning the Paladin may have only one of any aura she possesses at a time. She gains the ability to a once a day choose to use the Gate spell (but only to summon beings that her deity approves of) or alternatively request a Miracle (as the spell).

ShiningStarling
2011-08-08, 07:33 AM
Reserved for insightful sayings.

Like maybe...

Yes, this Paladin can be altered to fit any alignment.
No, I am not posting for every alignment.

Let's see what else we can get!

Thanks to Only1doug for the Holy Ascension and Smite Evil fix!

only1doug
2011-08-08, 10:31 AM
Heh, another Alternate Paladin version.

I like the increased power from the domain slots, thematically linked to deity and not overpowered as limited to 6th level at maximum.

Smite Evil increased to last entire combat and increased uses, I wonder if the paladin will eventually find that they have lots of uses left at the end of the adventuring day. I'm not convinced it is right for me, I feel that smite evil should feel special (and this would eventually be the default.

Lots of abilities: perhaps too many abilities to keep track of?

Mount Upgrades: nice, the Mount needs love to keep him special.

Grace touch, aura: Nice, the Paladin should be able to share with his allies.

Holy ascension: Nice, I like the change to angel etc but Gate and Miracle may be too much, perhaps a either / or choice on a shared timer.

I hope you find my thoughts helpful.

If you have a chance please examine my Paladin re-do (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210315) and return the favour of comments.

ShiningStarling
2011-08-08, 11:19 AM
Smite Evil increased to last entire combat and increased uses, I wonder if the paladin will eventually find that they have lots of uses left at the end of the adventuring day. I'm not convinced it is right for me, I feel that smite evil should feel special (and this would eventually be the default.
That is why it is only one enemy per use. You can use it for the whole combat, but only if that enemy is the last one. You see this way you would have to budget its use in crowd situations. Plus, you'll never be too screwed by the BBEG.

Holy ascension: Nice, I like the change to angel etc but Gate and Miracle may be too much, perhaps a either / or choice on a shared timer.
Good idea, done, let me know if the wording is awkward.

Lots of abilities: perhaps too many abilities to keep track of?
Most of them are improvements to earlier ones, and most mimic pre-existing abilities, evasion, mettle, etc. The only completely different abilities are the Auras, really. But there are a lot. That was kind of the point really, the vanilla Paladin just has sooooooo many dead levels, its not worth giving up every other class. So my goal was to weld a PrC's level of abilities to the Paladin, in hopes of encouraging those who will stick to it.

Also, notice the lack of a Code. This gives the Paladin to go to other means of furthering Good, like being able to associate with other party members even if one springs on you that their playing a Dread Necromancer. That was the biggest pain, having to be the Party Police. I hope this fixes the points I hope it does. :smallsmile:

Treblain
2011-08-08, 11:59 AM
Wow. 3 good saves, Evasion, Mettle, Slippery Mind, Divine Grace... is there any reason you didn't just put in a class feature that said "you are probably unaffected by any effects requiring a saving throw?" I'm just wondering if a class that is nearly immune to various effects is actually fun to play. It's boring when nothing can hit you, and the consequence will be that the enemies will just target your allies instead.

About the auras: multiple auras active at once are a pain to keep track of. You have to keep telling other players "Don't forget you've got +X from my aura if it's that kind of effect! Stay within 20ft of me!" It gets annoying and slows things down. Having only one aura active at a time is generally easier and adds a feeling of versatility to the class, making you have to choose which aura to use for a situation.

Also, again with the immunity problem. IMO, being entirely immune to a certain method of attack at all times is boring. Having Magic Circle Against Evil active at all times makes you to possession, charm, dominate, and certain attacks by summoned creatures. Suddenly you've taken a lot of options away from the DM without even taking an action.

I don't mean to critique everything. The paladin is a class that does need a lot of improvements. I like the domain spells and the mount stuff a lot. But it has a lot of abilities that are very powerful without requiring the character to do anything, and that can mean less fun for both players and DM.

only1doug
2011-08-08, 02:29 PM
That is why it is only one enemy per use. You can use it for the whole combat, but only if that enemy is the last one. You see this way you would have to budget its use in crowd situations. Plus, you'll never be too screwed by the BBEG.
With it lasting on one enemy for the entire combat its unlikey to need to be budgeted at higher levels unless you encounter swarms of minor enemies (for which you are unlikely to need it at all).


Good idea, done, let me know if the wording is awkward.

She may use in the summoning manner, to summon beings her deity approves of or she may request a Miracle. 1 of these powers may be used once in a day, not both in one day, nor 1 power twice in one day.

Kind of awkward, try:

She gains the ability to a once a day choose to use the Gate spell (but only to summon beings that her deity approves of) or alternatively request a Miracle (as the spell).


Most of them are improvements to earlier ones, and most mimic pre-existing abilities, evasion, mettle, etc. The only completely different abilities are the Auras, really. But there are a lot. That was kind of the point really, the vanilla Paladin just has sooooooo many dead levels, its not worth giving up every other class. So my goal was to weld a PrC's level of abilities to the Paladin, in hopes of encouraging those who will stick to it.

Yes, but also consider Treblains point: if the paladin is immune to everthing and has every possible ability then they become too much. If you become superman then every serious enemy ends up carrying Kryptonite (and if they don't have Kryptonite then they weren't serious enemies and thus no real threat so where is the glory in defeating them).


Also, notice the lack of a Code. This gives the Paladin to go to other means of furthering Good, like being able to associate with other party members even if one springs on you that their playing a Dread Necromancer. That was the biggest pain, having to be the Party Police. I hope this fixes the points I hope it does. :smallsmile:

Codes and party police are a roleplaying issue not a rules issue, how you write the class description isn't going to affect how other people play them.
(but writing a suggestion regarding how Paladins should interact with other alignments in the same party is a good idea. (and something I will do for my thread).

ShiningStarling
2011-08-09, 10:53 AM
Wow. 3 good saves, Evasion, Mettle, Slippery Mind, Divine Grace... is there any reason you didn't just put in a class feature that said "you are probably unaffected by any effects requiring a saving throw?" I'm just wondering if a class that is nearly immune to various effects is actually fun to play. It's boring when nothing can hit you, and the consequence will be that the enemies will just target your allies instead.
Well, yes, you are good against magic, but that was a key design point, your deity loves you and helps you a bit more than others. And the enemies might try to attack your allies, and as deities would guess that as a likely outcome, enter auras as another class feature. Because protecting your allies is important.


About the auras: multiple auras active at once are a pain to keep track of. You have to keep telling other players "Don't forget you've got +X from my aura if it's that kind of effect! Stay within 20ft of me!" It gets annoying and slows things down. Having only one aura active at a time is generally easier and adds a feeling of versatility to the class, making you have to choose which aura to use for a situation.
Yes, it can get annoying, but what is more annoying, at least to me, is the person who contributes nothing to the group. Other people don't have to follow the Paladin around, but the Paladin is a leader and those who follow her are rewarded with bonuses. This "passive bonus" system helps with spellcasters getting closer to the battle, fighters not needing as many buffs. I understand the hesitation in all the power, and it is a lot, but for a class that never gets to take aany other class, its gotta be worth taking. Though the one aura at a time is ok, I'll do that.

Also, again with the immunity problem. IMO, being entirely immune to a certain method of attack at all times is boring. Having Magic Circle Against Evil active at all times makes you immune to possession, charm, dominate, and certain attacks by summoned creatures. Suddenly you've taken a lot of options away from the DM without even taking an action.
That is a good point. I was trying to give it earlier than 20th level, as the Circle is a side effect of being an Angel type, but I think I could dumb it down a bit for earlier levels, it is a bit much for that early.

Codes and party police are a roleplaying issue not a rules issue, how you write the class description isn't going to affect how other people play them.
(but writing a suggestion regarding how Paladins should interact with other alignments in the same party is a good idea
Well, it does affect the class when the GM says that your party just did something too evil and you associate with them so BAM no more coolness, but I see your point, maybe that will come later.

Also, I've figured out exactly hhow i really wanted to word Smite Evil, so that's fixed.

Thanks for the feedback!