Constructs and overland movement

[supermonkeyjoe]

Given that constructs are immune to both fatigue and nonlethal damage, how far would a construct be able to go in a day?

Take the case of a shield guardian, its master gives it the command come to my new location as fast as possible, he then teleports a thousand mile away. The Shield Guardian uses its Find master ability to head directly towards its master as fast as possible. Examining the overland movement rules:


Walk
A character can walk 8 hours in a day of travel without a problem. Walking for longer than that can wear him or her out (see Forced March, below).

Fine, the guardian can easily do this but it's too slow:


Hustle

A character can hustle for 1 hour without a problem. Hustling for a second hour in between sleep cycles deals 1 point of nonlethal damage, and each additional hour deals twice the damage taken during the previous hour of hustling. A character who takes any nonlethal damage from hustling becomes fatigued.

Again, no problem, the Guardian can hustle along quite happily all day being immune to nonlethal, but can he go any faster?


Run
A character with a Constitution score of 9 or higher can run for a minute without a problem. Generally, a character can run for a minute or two before having to rest for a minute.

A character can’t run for an extended period of time.


Can the Shield Guardian even run seeing as it has a CON score of -? Assuming it can run can it run all day as the rules seem to specify that "A character can't run for an extended period of time"?

[Tenno Seremel]

Constructs cannot run AFAIR.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Constructs cannot run AFAIR.

So in the case of the Shield Guardian, every day he's hustling? :smallbiggrin:

I don't see anywhere in the construct description where it says they can't run, is this just a function of not having a CON score or is it specifically spelled out anywhere?

[Tenno Seremel]

So in the case of the Shield Guardian, every day he's hustling? :smallbiggrin:

Yes, I think so (^. ^)

I can't find it in construct description anywhere too, although SRD says "You can run for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution score", which construct do not have.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Yes, I think so (^. ^)

I can't find it in construct description anywhere too, although SRD says "You can run for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution score", which construct do not have.

So living constructs can run but regular constructs without CON scores, seems fair enough. There goes my dream of dozens of golems thundering across the plains at full speed.

[Tenno Seremel]

Well, you can try to boost their speed somehow. You'll need to double it to get the same speed as run (x4).

[Fouredged Sword]

If your dm rules that they can run then take the distance that they travel in one turn and use that as thier movement speed to calculate thier normal movement without hustleing.

The math works out that this would be thier rate of movement per 8 hours. They can travel three times this far per day.

If they can't run then they can travel three times thier 8 hour hustle distance per day. They will still outtravel any martal army.

Or you could make some effigy mounts with high fly speeds to carry them, or just effigy dragons.

[beyond reality]

Had a similar situation not too long ago, during a chase scene the party warforged decided to charge ahead on his own and just keep walking while the rest of the party was resting. He ended up covering a truly impressive distance and that one thing proved to me why a group of warforged really is the ultimate army.

Of course when he caught up to the people they were chasing he got his butt kicked all over the landscape and the rest of the party found him in a crumpled heap by the side of the road when they finally caught up.

[Fouredged Sword]

That is why you need 20 or 30 warforged with slings. They don't need to stop ever and just kite thier foes running away olny to return to throw more slingstone. Run around them to cut off supply lines and keep them moveing or dodging slingstones.

You just need to keep pushing until they drop from lack of sleep, water, or food.

Then you go in for the kill.

[deuxhero]

Actually, a "-" score is considered a +0 modifier (most typically brought up for hit points).

By the RAW as it says "greater than 9" instead of "does no have a penalty" or such, still no though.

[Fouredged Sword]

That would let a flying effigy with a 200ft fly speed able to move 800ft per round.

That is a lot of ground in 24 hours!

But yeah, an all warforged party that takes percautions to not need rest for very long / at all will be a scary force on the open road.

Or get a warforged big and storng enough to carry everyone else in a wagon. A warforged with pernancy enlarge person would qualify for warhulk.

[Ravens_cry]

So living constructs can run but regular constructs without CON scores, seems fair enough. There goes my dream of dozens of golems thundering across the plains at full speed.
As Going Postal showed, they don't have to run. They can just keep moving.

[Tenno Seremel]

Actually, a "-" score is considered a +0 modifier (most typically brought up for hit points).

Modifier is not a score though.

[beyond reality]

This is more of a case where the rules don't properly address the situation I think. There's no rule that constructs and undead can't run during Tactical movement for example and actually enforcing that rule would have several strange consequences (for instance it would mean that although a human transformed into a vampire is physically superior in almost every way they suddenly can't move faster than a light jog).

It's really obviously just a case where they created the rules with the PCs (living humaniods) in mind and didn't ever bother to create specific rules for the odd ones out like undead and constructs.

[Ravens_cry]

They can hustle forever, never taking non-leathal damage by virtue of being immune to it, but they can't run. Simple.
They are the Implacable Man, the ultimate Endurance Hunter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting).
This fits thematically for non-living constructs as well as most undead, in my opinion. Remember Mr. Pump following Moist Von Lipwig? How about serial killers in slasher movies? Or Zombies in most zombie movies?
They don't run, but they keep moving.

[beyond reality]

They can hustle forever, never taking non-leathal damage by virtue of being immune to it, but they can't run. Simple.
They are the Implacable Man, the ultimate Endurance Hunter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting).
This fits thematically for non-living constructs as well as most undead, in my opinion. Remember Mr. Pump following Moist Von Lipwig? How about serial killers in slasher movies? Or Zombies in most zombie movies?
They don't run, but they keep moving.

What about vampires? Ghouls? Not all undead are shambling monsters. Likewise not all constructs are big lumbering hunks of stone and metal.

And not having a Con score is explicitly not the same as having a Con score of 0. The rules for running simply do not address the difference so it's equally valid to claim that constructs have an effective con of infinity as it is to claim that they have a con score of 0 for the purposes of the running rules.

[beyond reality]

actually all we had to do is read the rules:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities

A creature with no constitution can run indefinitely unless it's stats say explicitly that it cannot run.

[Fouredged Sword]

If I was Dming I would implement a ruleing allowing Contructs and undead to run, but implement a system for lethal damage taken over long runs (measured in intervals based on Str likely) as minor damage that doesn't heal over time builds up.

This is pure houserule teritory, but it would allow undead and contstucts and undead to run in tactical situation, better than mortals likely, but be restricted for over land movement.

[Ravens_cry]

actually all we had to do is read the rules:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities

A creature with no constitution can run indefinitely unless it's stats say explicitly that it cannot run.

There you have it folks, thread over, we can go home now.

[Tenno Seremel]

And I've even used search… Weird %)

[Funkyodor]

Yes, and he will be going as fast as possible toward you in a straight line. So most of the time the shield guardian won't be using roads, trails, or paths (x3/4 or x1/2 movement); also traveling directly through towns, camps, and cities. It would be easier just to bring it with you when you teleport.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Yes, and he will be going as fast as possible toward you in a straight line. So most of the time the shield guardian won't be using roads, trails, or paths (x3/4 or x1/2 movement); also traveling directly through towns, camps, and cities. It would be easier just to bring it with you when you teleport.

So the the controlling wizard should say come to my new location as fast as possible and staying on roads and paths if it would be quicker, how adept are constructs at pathfinding algorithms? :smalltongue:

I just love the image of the guardian thundering up to its controller covered in bits of tree mud and feathers from when it has run through forests rivers and the farmers chicken coop :smallbiggrin:

[Greenish]

That is why you need 20 or 30 warforged with slings.If you've bought 20-30 warforged at 5-6k each, you can probably afford to equip them with something better than mere slings.

[Fouredged Sword]

Does your construct have an intelegence score? If it does it will atempt to make a knowledge geography check to get to you along roads.

Or it could make a gather information check to find the information it needs.

Otherwise it behaves stupidly and will attempt to follow your directions blindly.

- Slings can fire stones you pick up off the ground. No resupply period. Yes you are likely to give them bows to begin with, but if you are makeing a deep penitration team to harass oponents they are better off with a good backup weapon that they can aquire ammo for easily.