Spot checks lack logic

[Boci]

Does it bother that spot checks make no sense? You need to hit a DC: 10 to spot a large, unhidden object, but take a -1 penalty for every 10ft, so with a neutral spot modifier the chances are stacked against you when you try and spot an unhiiden grandfather clock in plain sight.

Has this ever been a problem for you? Personally no, because I've never seen such an aspect of game enforced. Spot checks are used to locate hidden creatures almost exclusivly.

[Boci]

Sometimes.
They fixed it with the Perception skill in 4e.
You add 10 to your Perception bonus, and now you can see things in plain sight! genius!

Isn't that just taking a 10?

[ImperatorK]

Note that sometimes people don't see something that's in plain sight, and not because it's hidden behind something but because they aren't aware that it's there.

http://www.piculous.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/animal-camouflage-07.jpg
Camouflage much?

[Vandicus]

Note that sometimes people don't see something that's in plain sight, and not because it's hidden but because they aren't aware that it's there. Camouflage much?

Or just not paying much attention. Has anyone here not accidentally missed the right road to take before? At 10 ft of distance before taking the road and it being in plain sight, by D&D RAW the DC is 1, something we shouldn't miss even on a natural 1, yet WE DO.

[Boci]

Camouflage much?

Don't ranger's get an ability called camouflage which isa described as hide in plain sight, but only in a natural enviroment?

[ImperatorK]

Don't ranger's get an ability called camouflage which isa described as hide in plain sight, but only in a natural enviroment?
Yes, they do. But it's more an ability to hide yourself when otherwise it would be impossible or very hard to do without the proper skill. Imagine someone without Camouflage ability to be someone that just lays prone in the grass and someone with the ability to do a make-shift gillie (sp?) suit and use it properly. Of course in a fantasy game like D&D you don't even need the gillie suit.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Or just not paying much attention. Has anyone here not accidentally missed the right road to take before? At 10 ft of distance before taking the road and it being in plain sight, by D&D RAW the DC is 1, something we shouldn't miss even on a natural 1, yet WE DO.
Well, there's also other DC-boosters, such as the scenery being in movement or distractions being afoot, so it's probably closer to DC 7-10. But the point still stands.

[The Glyphstone]

Spot checksD&D Rules lack logic.

There's your answer right there.

[Big Fau]

By RAW, creatures in DnD cannot see the Sun or Moon, even with a telescope (which only provides a small, static bonus to Spot). The size penalties the Sun takes to Hide are actually smaller than the penalties we take to Spot. Same with the Moon.

[The Glyphstone]

By RAW, creatures in DnD cannot see the Sun or Moon, even with a telescope (which only provides a small, static bonus to Spot). The size penalties the Sun takes to Hide are actually smaller than the penalties we take to Spot. Same with the Moon.

The invention of size categories beyond Colossal was possibly the only thing the Complete Epileptic Monkeys Handbook did right.

[Andreaz]

As said by the guy with the blue text, sometimes the rules simply don't make sense.

I use spot to identify details instead of "noticing at all": You sure can see a person mounting a horse on that hill almost a mile away, but you better pass a spot check if you want to have any idea of who is there other than "A person on a horse".
I use spot to notice something when you aren't paying attention. Like seeing through your window someone crossing the field while you are reading or talking to someone else.

[Boci]

The invention of size categories beyond Colossal was possibly the only thing the Complete Epileptic Monkeys Handbook did right.

So thanks to the CEMH, DMs no longer need to houserule that you can see the sun and the moon, and can have a quick on hand reason for their players as to why they should retire their current character and start from the bottom again.

[Silva Stormrage]

So thanks to the CEMH, DMs no longer need to houserule that you can see the sun and the moon, and can have a quick on hand reason for their players as to why they should retire their current character and start from the bottom again.

Wait what IS the CEMH? I have never heard of it.

[Boci]

Wait what IS the CEMH? I have never heard of it.

Immortal Handbook. Our dear modirator The Glyphstone has a funny habit of describing its creation as putting boxing gloves on an epileptic monkey and then correcting the typoes. Sad part is, there may be some truth in that statent.

[Silva Stormrage]

Immortal Handbook. Our dear modirator The Glyphstone has a funny habit of describing its creation as putting boxing gloves on an epileptic monkey and then correcting the typoes. Sad part is, there may be some truth in that statent.

Ah thats makes sense, I haven't read that yet. Sounds like an interesting read :smallbiggrin:

[FMArthur]

More clearly stated, it's a reference to the fact that the only thing making anything in the book special and powerful are huge numbers on everything. Many high-epic threats I see elsewhere are something like children arguing about made-up-on-the-spot, unbeatable super powers, but by all accounts (I've never read the thing) the Immortal's Handbook is just regular monsters whose stat sheets are at least a size category larger than a normal monster's. I don't honestly know which I'd prefer. Epic level play in general is worth avoiding at all costs.

[Boci]

More clearly stated, it's a reference to the fact that the only thing making anything in the book special and powerful are huge numbers on everything. Many high-epic threats I see elsewhere are something like children arguing about made-up-on-the-spot, unbeatable super powers, but by all accounts (I've never read the thing) the Immortal's Handbook is just regular monsters whose stat sheets are at least a size category larger than a normal monster's. I don't honestly know which I'd prefer. Epic level play in general is worth avoiding at all costs.

Don't forget the extra paragraph of immunities.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The invention of size categories beyond Colossal was possibly the only thing the Complete Epileptic Monkeys Handbook did right.

You mean... I can fight THESE!?

Wide image.
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/158/4/3/earth_colossus_by_zsoltkosa-d3i9rgj.jpg
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/170/6/1/earth_colossus_by_chase_sc2-d3jdoxw.jpg
http://th06.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2011/167/b/1/life_colossus_by_neisbeis-d3j1uck.jpg

[Silva Stormrage]

To be fair swiftmongoose the second one seems to be a reasonable size to attack... the first not so much :smalleek:.

[Boci]

To be fair swiftmongoose the second one seems to be a reasonable size to attack... the first not so much :smalleek:.

Second one is fightable as well. Just treat it as the Deathstar, or hideously mistitled Nirvana from Fairy Tail. Its not a creature, its an animated fortress, filled with enemies. You kill the latter, and the former will die as well.

[Lord Raziere]

DnD rules don't follow reality.

news at eleven. stop the presses.

[beyond reality]

Not that I'm claiming the rules are amazingly realistic, but I'm pretty sure there's nothing at all that says that you have to roll a DC 10 to spot a large unhidden object.

The spot check is only for situations where things are hiding or are difficult to see (due to coloring, distractions or concealment), and that's pretty much exactly what it says in the first two sentences of the skill description.

Not to mention even if you were required to use a spot check to see regular objects the DC wouldn't be that high. A Large object is -4 to Hide, and has no Dex so an additional -5. That makes it DC 1. Even at 40 feet it's still only DC 5. Seems relatively reasonable to me.

[Hiro Protagonest]

To be fair swiftmongoose the second one seems to be a reasonable size to attack... the first not so much :smalleek:.

Did you see the wide picture?

Also, "epic level".

[Silva Stormrage]

Did you see the wide picture?

Also, "epic level".

Oh I missed the wide image...

Okay the THIRD image looks like it could be fought...