Looking for a tactics rpg for PC (solo)

[Ashtar]

I've been looking for a good tactics game for a while, itching to play some challenging but fun strategy games.

I really enjoy games like:
X-Com / UFO: Enemy Unknown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO:_Enemy_Unknown) & its series
Battle for Wesnoth (http://www.wesnoth.org/)
MissionForce: CyberStorm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MissionForce:_CyberStorm)
Fantasy General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_General)
Final Fantasy Tactics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Tactics)
Fire Emblem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Emblem) & Series
Dofus (http://www.dofus.com) (turn by turn tactics MMORPG)
Warlords & Warlords battlecry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warlords_(game_series)) (RTS but still good)
Recettear (http://www.carpefulgur.com/recettear/) also got my attention for a while, with the RPG element and selling store.
Princess Maker 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Maker_2) kept me entertained for a long while too.
All the Gold box games for D&D (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Box) and most of the following D&D games on PC (Baldur's gate, Torment, etc...)
Heroes of Might and Magic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_of_Might_and_Magic) has singularly failed to capture my attention, although I did play them.
Disgaea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgaea) for it's extreme wackyness
Advance Wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Wars) but i'd prefer with more rpg elements
Tactics Ogre, how could I have forgotten it? Played and enjoyed to the very end.
Fallout Tactics, good one, also finished.
Age of Wonders is another one I enjoyed and played through.

Suggested games:
Grotesque Tactics
Jagged Alliance (& 2)
The Temple of Elemental Evil: A Classic Greyhawk Adventure
Knights of the Chalice
Disciples 2
King's Bounty
Titans of Steel
Frozen Synapse
Icewind Dale II
Tactics Ogre
Fantasy Wars Elven Legacy
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
Wargaming.net : Massive Assault
Wargaming.net : Galactic Assault: Prisoner of Power
Heroes 5
Avernum
Atlantica Online (MMOSRPG)
Makai Kingdom

I would like a tactics RPG with a little group of characters, but a larger warfare tactics game is also good. As for genre, I'm open to suggestions. Has anyone got any ideas? If possible for Windows, but I could gain access to other platforms for a great game.

[psilontech]

You've already listed pretty much all of my suggestions -- I'm curious to see what suggestions come up as I also enjoy Tactical RPGs.

If you're open to non-pc possibilities, the Tactics Ogre series is generally pretty fun with a very close feeling to Final Fantasy Tactics (Really, the only FF game I can claim to have enjoyed). Emulation is always an option...

[Zorg]

Fallout Tactics and Jagged Alliance both sound like they'd fit your search as they're both similar to XCom. They're both currently available from Good Old Games.

[Mx.Silver]

Grotesque Tactics isn't a bad Tactical RPG. It's kind of a parody of the genre and as such isn't terribly serious, but the gameplay is fairly solid (although it may be a bit on the easy side at times). I would advise against the Steam version though, as Steam really doesn't seem to agree with the latest patch (it reacts by crashing frequently, if it agrees to run properly at all to begin with).

[Jair Barik]

From the tactical side of things Frozen Synapse might be of interest to you. It is a tactical turn based strategy game that completely upheaves the genre by making the players turn occur simultaneously with the enemy's.

On the RPG side of things I can't think of much to recommend that you haven't listed. The Elder scrolls series and the Fallout series get various acclaim but to me they lack the sense of roleplaying that you get in baldurs gate or Planescape as your character has bland and very to the point answers that can generally be summed up as intelligent, angry or persuasive.

[Cespenar]

Fallout Tactics and Jagged Alliance both sound like they'd fit your search as they're both similar to XCom. They're both currently available from Good Old Games.

This is the answer.

Also, for some "lesser" examples, try Disciples 2 and 3, the new King's Bounty game, and Knights of the Chalice.

Also also, if you haven't yet played, Icewind Dale 2 is a fun tactical hack and slash "RPG".

[Ashtar]

First of all, thanks for all the replies!

Tactics Ogre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactics_Ogre:_Let_Us_Cling_Together), how could I have forgotten it? Played and enjoyed to the very end.
Fallout Tactics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_Tactics:_Brotherhood_of_Steel), good suggestion, also finished.
Age of Wonders is another one I enjoyed and played through.

I've seen about Frozen Synapse on Steam, I have to investigate, I'm currently looking more for a hexy/square game, but I'll try anything ^^.
Jagged Alliance, good suggestion, i'll look it up on GoG.
I had seen Grotesque Tactics on Steam and the visuals really didn't seem to appeal to me, but I'll take another look at it and find a demo (there's one in german I hear).
Icewind Dale 2 turns me a bit off due to the real-time stop-start stutter from the rounds which had a tendency to frustrate me in Neverwinter II, but I should maybe give it a go.

--
I'll follow up on Disciples 2 and 3, the new King's Bounty game, and Knights of the Chalice, I'm D/L a demo for Grotesque now.

[Mx.Silver]

This is the answer.

Also, for some "lesser" examples, try Disciples 2 and 3

I dunno, if the OP wasn't that impressed by Heroes of Might and Magic, Disciples 2 (which is esentially HoMM but significantly less strategic and generally not as good) may not be a great fit.



I had seen Grotesque Tactics on Steam and the visuals really didn't seem to appeal to me, but I'll take another look at it and find a demo (there's one in german I hear).
It's a German-made game, so yeah, it should be available in German.

[Cespenar]

Thus, the "lesser" tag. But I don't know. It has rather cool artwork, and an interesting puzzle-like kick to its strategic gameplay. It is at least moderately enjoyable by a tactics game enthusiast like me, and that's why I mentioned it.

[Mx.Silver]

Thus, the "lesser" tag. But I don't know. It has rather cool artwork, and an interesting puzzle-like kick to its strategic gameplay. It is at least moderately enjoyable by a tactics game enthusiast like me, and that's why I mentioned it.

I'll agree it looks pretty, and it's an ok time-waster, it's just that the puzzle aspect as you describe it doesn't really work to the game's advantage, as most of the 'tactical choices' have clear right or wrong answers (e.g. what sort of lord you pick for Campaign play, where the correct answer is wizard).

[tensai_oni]

Funny that, I played a warrior lord and did well.

But Disciples 2 really have better and worse builds. For example, the undead can spam Reaper units resistant to physical damage, and that army can wipe out almost everything that's not explicitly made to counter it. This game has really good graphics and a gothic feel to it, but tactical options are limited. It's not something to play when you look for a tactical challenge.

[Cogwheel]

I was going to post Frozen Synapse here (I don't like it, but I can tell it's good), but I seem to have been beaten to that and everything else. I would have a recommendation for you, but it's for the DS, so that's right out. Ah well.

I should really get around to playing JA some time.

[Mx.Silver]

Funny that, I played a warrior lord and did well.

It's not so much that warrior won't work, it's just that wizard works so much better. The Warrior Lord's healing really doesn't scale well as the game progresses either, whereas a wizard can basically spell spam foes to death by the same point.



But Disciples 2 really have better and worse builds. For example, the undead can spam Reaper units resistant to physical damage, and that army can wipe out almost everything that's not explicitly made to counter it.
And let's not forget the Human Elementalist, which is gets less useful the more units you have in your party (becoming utterly worthless once you get a full 6). Or the Dwarf Wolf Lord, which is blatantly inferior to its same level alternatives.

[warty goblin]

I enjoyed Fantasy Wars and its sequel Elven Legacy quite a bit. I'm told by people who have played it that they're very much in the Fantasy General vein, so if you liked that you'll probably like them. I'd suggest Elven Legacy, the interface has several improvements over Fantasy Wars, and I genuinely enjoyed the story.

Jagged Alliance 2 is also a good time. If you like the whole quasi-fetishistic guns'n'mercenaries angle and don't mind a slight detour into realtime, I also suggest 7.62: High Caliber. It's pretty much the same idea, but instead of characters spending action points and acting in sequence, it uses a very deep real time with pause system. Every action in the game takes some amount of time to complete, and all combatants act simultaneously. This forces a constant and very tense balancing act between doing an action well and doing it fast, and makes the combat feel much more genuine and eliminates such obnoxious things as running across the room and pounding Mr. Shotgun Man to death with a baseball bat because it's not his turn yet. It's not a great game in many ways, but if you're only there for the tactics it's absolutely superb.

[Ashtar]

Well I tried Grotesque last night and while the game could be a good match, I think I won't purchase it. The characters just don't stop talking, the most inane things, and the worst part is that text appears at a glacial pace, forcing you to keep the mouse button down to speed it up to the speed of a snail or to right click and pass the conversation, which you then suffer for since they ask you to answer.

So while I might be able to stand Holy's repulsive personality, I just can't contemplate sitting in front of the screen shouting "Get ON with it" during the rest of the game like I was finding myself doing last night... All that for 1 missing option to make the text appear instantaneously...

The demo can be played in English, too. So I encourage to check it out if you're not as textually impatient as me.

So tonight, I'l be trying out something new! I'll see if I can find a demo of JA / JA 2, Disciples 2, new King's Bounty (looks interesting).

Fantasy Wars, I had played a little, I think I had a demo at some point. I'll have a second look at it, especially if it's got a sequel that's better!

[deuxhero]

Jagged Alliance 2 (with 1.13 mod), The Temple of Elemental Evil: A Classic Greyhawk Adventure and Knights of the Chalice (they 2nd two are direct turn based adaptations of 3.5D&D/d20 system).

[Alge'n]

Knights of the Chalice (http://www.heroicfantasygames.com/) sounds like exactly what you're looking for, and it has a free demo. If you like the demo, you'll like the game.

[Cespenar]

So tonight, I'l be trying out something new! I'll see if I can find a demo of JA / JA 2, Disciples 2, new King's Bounty (looks interesting).

Don't bother with JA 1 and pass straight onto 2. While it was an excellent game for its time, that time has passed long ago (1994).

[Ashtar]

So an evening of trying things out:

Jagged Alliance 2, I tried the demo for a while, interesting system, I wasn't hooked immediately, but I can see the Xcom relation and I think I could get into it.

Knights of the Calice, really reminiscent of the Gold Box games, the Demo is quite unforgiving, with me dying to bears, bears and then to the second group in the dungeon who lightning bolted me twice in the face before I had time to act. I see how I could get into this. I guess the party wasn't really "optimized" since you can't create your players in the demo.

Disciples 2, enjoyable. I spent most of the evening playing on this. Doing the tutorial and seeing my squires die like flies despite the healing. I could get into this, especially with the possibility of bringing heroes over from scenario to scenario. For the moment, I'd say this is the winner, I'll do another scenario to be sure! Also made me wonder if I should look into a recent Heroes of Might and Magic.

King's Bounty - The Legend is installed and ready to fire up. I am looking forwards to testing this one, I'm expecting it to be to my taste. We'll see...

Again, thanks for all these suggestions! Keep them coming, even the esoteric ones on consoles, handhelds, etc...

Still to try: King's bounty, Frozen Synapse, Icewind Dale II, Firing up Tactics Ogre again, a Ds game, Fantasy Wars, ...

[warty goblin]

Apparently I am a moron. How else could I forget Wargaming.net's wonderful catalog?

OK, so they're pretty much all tactics and strategy with very little RPG, but they are among the absolute best of their field. The Massive Assault games are the real standouts here, although the feature list rather sells them short. Two identical (or nearly identical, the later games differentiated them) factions fight it out across a hex map using a fairly small roster of units. There's not even a vast number of unit statistics - you've got speed, damage, health and cost, with only the most rudimentary of special or activated abilities. There's no repair mechanic, no morale, no explicit flanking bonuses.

The marvelous thing is that it doesn't need any of that stuff. Because of the simple statistical system units have a very elegant, mathematical sort of balance to them, with uses that emerge from their basic attributes and the situation. The symmetrical sides puts the focus squarely on how you command your units, not what advantages you picked at the beginning, and the whole thing just works marvelously. Plus, even for quite old games, they hold up graphically remarkably well - the original Massive Assault came out in 2000 and would be passable today. There's demos out there, and I absolutely recommend trying them. Massive Assault is probably the only computer game that I'd compare not disfavorably to Chess.

The same company also made Galactic Assault: Prisoner of Power, which plays it much closer to the traditional wargame belt. Units have morale, bonuses against particular sorts of enemy, take terrain penalties and the rest. It's still a very well put together package though, and worth looking at. There's no RPG mechanics, but it's based on a Russian sci-fi novel that I desperately wish I could track down in translation, so the story's weird but reasonably good.

[Cieyrin]

Disciples 2, enjoyable. I spent most of the evening playing on this. Doing the tutorial and seeing my squires die like flies despite the healing. I could get into this, especially with the possibility of bringing heroes over from scenario to scenario. For the moment, I'd say this is the winner, I'll do another scenario to be sure! Also made me wonder if I should look into a recent Heroes of Might and Magic.

I enjoyed Disciples 2 initially but got annoyed later in the campaign as you have to level your troops up from level 1 every scenario and the second set of campaigns gets to be so much Rocket Tag, with ridiculous levels on basic units to try to challenge your high level heroes. Just...not worth it. Story is pretty good, though, just not worthwhile to get into high level play.

Heroes 5 has a good bit of depth to it and I've enjoyed the various Heroes I've played but then I'm a long time Might and Magic player, so I may be a little biased.

Noting Disgaea on your list, you may want to hunt down Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter for a different take on tactical RPG. Everything costs action points to do (except items, I think), you have strict item limits and your early playthroughs you have to consider what you actually fight and what you want to bypass via traps and trickery, as there's no free heals for the most part. The game always runs in Iron Man mode, doing a real save costs in-game resources and there's even an option to retire from the current playthrough and begin from the beginning if you get screwed or cornered. You get rewarded for doing so, as you get to bring your levels and items back with you and you get further insight into the early story and cut scenes for it, as well as access to new areas that were previously locked. Very well designed game with heavy resource management and rewarding choices. Well worth your while if you can get a copy.

[Iskandar]

Might I suggest Titans of Steel? TBS with big mecha stompy goodness. Think BattleTech and a little Missionforce: Cyberstorm. Kinda barebones, and the leaning curve is a bit of a learning wall, but once you understand it, much fun to be had. I install and play it every few months, it is genre that I really wish had more games.

Best of all? It is free (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1713043).

[Cookiemobsta]

You might enjoy the Avernum series (http://avernum.com/) They're a bit more RPG than tactical (you only have 4 people in your party, and they're usually the same 4 people for the entire game), but the gameplay is great, the world is compelling, and best of all the demos are huge (easily 10 hours of content in each demo, and there's 6 games that you can get the demos of.) I strongly recommend picking them up.

[LansXero]

Makai Kingdom is like Disgaea with a different skin, so you may like it. Then there are all the sequels, ofc.

And if you are feeling MMORPGish, Atlantica Online is to the day, as far as I can tell, the only MMORPG with Tactical Combat as the main (only actually) combat mode. Story is pretty cool and it has lots of good things, but its korean so it gets grindy towards the higher levels. Very very grindy. But PvP is fun and you dont need to grind at all to be mildly competent in it (Im in a division supposedly for people 20 levels higher than me, and have been in it for 2 months, even though 2 consecutive losses throw you out. And I have 0 cash shop items. So yeah, its doable :D)

[Ashtar]

Thank you for all the suggestions!

I've been playing the demo of King's Bounty this evening and am enjoying it a lot. More than Disciples II. So that is currently top of the charts. It's fun but tough and frustrating at the same time, yet forgiving since you never really die.

I downloaded Titans of Steel and tried the tutorial, I wasn't able to complete the tutorial, at one point (after firing my guns), I wasn't able to continue or to switch back to another mode. The intro music on the title screen is fantastic, I was excited just watching the credits. I'll take the time to go back to it this week-end and read the manuals. It looks like I could be hooked on it. Thanks for that, these kinds of games are rare.

I'm downloading the demo of Elven Legacy as we speak.

Still to try: Frozen Synapse, Icewind Dale II, Firing up Tactics Ogre again, Fantasy Wars Elven Legacy, Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, Wargaming.net : Massive Assault, Wargaming.net : Galactic Assault: Prisoner of Power, Heroes 5, Avernum, Atlantica Online (MMOSRPG), Makai Kingdom

I edited the first post to keep a list if ever any one else is looking for a tactics game. Keep them coming :)

Oh and Warty Goblin, here's a link to the amazon page of the book in English.
http://www.amazon.com/Prisoners-Power-Soviet-Science-Fiction/dp/002615160X

[Ogremindes]

If you have an iOS device Hunters: Episode One is pretty cool. That and Final Fantasy Tactics just came out for iOS.

[KingofMadCows]

Silent Storm, it's a turn based tactical RPG set during WW2 with fully destructible environments.

[Starbuck_II]

Pools of Radiance? Both the 1st edition AD&D and 3rd edition D&D versions are tactic versions like Temple of Elemental Evil.

[Iskandar]

If you mean Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor, I'd recommend against it. Incredibly buggy, including a nasty one that will kill Windows on an uninstall.

[Zain]

EDIT: reread the list, missed fallout tactics, can't think of any others of the top of my head, might add something later

[warty goblin]

Unless you really like the post-apocalypse, I'd not bother with Fallout Tactics. It's not bad, but aside from setting Jagged Alliance 2 is simply a better turn based fireteam to squad level tactical game. In particular JA 2 simulates ballistics somewhat, while FT just rolls dice and doesn't accurately account for cover, surface penetration or ricochets. If memory serves JA 2 also has a more detailed and believable set of rules governing weapons handling.

[factotum]

It's not bad, but aside from setting Jagged Alliance 2 is simply a better turn based fireteam to squad level tactical game.

Is Jagged Alliance: Deadly Games any good? Got that as a freebie from GOG some time ago and have never got round to installing it.

[Cespenar]

Is Jagged Alliance: Deadly Games any good? Got that as a freebie from GOG some time ago and have never got round to installing it.

It's almost the same as JA 1, that is to say, it has not aged well. Feel free to try though, if you have a rather high tolerance for such stuff.

[warty goblin]

Is Jagged Alliance: Deadly Games any good? Got that as a freebie from GOG some time ago and have never got round to installing it.

I have it as a freebie as well, and also have not played it. From what I've read however JA 2 is a vast improvement over the first, with a much better engine and deeper mechanics.

I'd say if the concept interests you it's well worth spending $10 on JA 2. It's aged quite well for the most part, the graphics are obviously dated now but aren't ugly enough to be unplayable or anything. Even the interface, which I often find a sticking spot for older titles, holds up pretty well and does a good job making pertinent information readily accessible. And as I said before, mechanically it's very good, with lots of options and quite deep tactics. There's apparently a fairly extensive fan patch out there which adds even more guns and overhauls the suppression mechanic so it works on party members as well as enemies, but I've never messed with it.

Really, if spending AP to shoot dudes is your thing, it's hard to do better than JA 2. In fact, it's arguably not possible, so give it a whirl if your interest is non-zero.

[LansXero]

Oh, Id also suggest Front Mission 3 (havent played the others in the franchise) if it werent for PS1 :(

[Cieyrin]

Oh, Id also suggest Front Mission 3 (havent played the others in the franchise) if it werent for PS1 :(

Why? We're suggesting PS2 games, which will run PS1 games fine. Getting it, on the other hand, could be its own issue.

I've played FM4 for PS2, which I enjoyed quite a bit, though it kinda gets guide-y towards the end as setting up your mecha to handle the enemies becomes key to being successful (especially having the right armor type equipped). Still, despite that, it's a fun TBS mecha game that you can widdle the hours away on. Not a perfect game but still worth your while.

[Jair Barik]

Avadon the black fortress looks like it could be interesting. Indie title not yet out but it looks like it could fit the bill of what you are looking for, a blend of fire emblem and baldurs gate by the looks of things.

[Cieyrin]

Avadon the black fortress looks like it could be interesting. Indie title not yet out but it looks like it could fit the bill of what you are looking for, a blend of fire emblem and baldurs gate by the looks of things.

Wait, what? It's been out for months. It was most recently released for iPad but that's still been at least a month or two. :smallconfused:

Avadon the Black Fortress (http://www.spidweb.com/avadon/index.html)

[Jair Barik]

I was looking at the steam release date. Didn't realise it had already come out on other formats.

[factotum]

Also, it's a Spiderweb game, so I doubt there's going to be much in the way of tactics in it--they're usually pure RPGs he comes out with.

[Triaxx]

I really love Fallout Tactics, even if it's not the most entertaining Fallout game, it's still an awesome game. I love tactical games, though I've not played Jagged Alliance. Mostly because of lack of internet capable of downloading from GoG.

Any Steam recommendations?

[Cieyrin]

Also, it's a Spiderweb game, so I doubt there's going to be much in the way of tactics in it--they're usually pure RPGs he comes out with.

It really depends on your play style how much tactics you want to use but the games can be fairly straight forward except for some of the boss battles. It can get very tactical in the Geneforge series if you go to pains to avoid combat and be purely skill-based. Not sure how feasible it is in the first game but the second on rewards heavily for investing in Leadership and Mechanics to deal with your problems.

[factotum]

Mostly because of lack of internet capable of downloading from GoG.

Any Steam recommendations?

Er, whut? :smallconfused: You have Internet that's capable of downloading from Steam, but not from GOG?

[Triaxx]

GoG does not like my laptop for some reason. I can take my laptop to the library and use their wifi. Thus I can download from Steam, but not GoG.

Fortunately, as long as you have the Steam client, you can simply copypasta the game across computers and play without issue.

[Ashtar]

I picked up the King's Bounty: Platinum Edition on steam for 29.99€, it's KB: Legend, KB: Armoured princess and the extension Crossworlds with extra campaigns. I guess that will keep me occupied for a long while, I clocked 13.5 hours over the week-end and I'm not even 1/4 of the way through. I am playing on Hard and I must say, it's quite a challenge. I got a couple of Game Over screens already from wandering monsters with 5 stacks of 200+ monsters.

Thanks for all the suggestions and keep them coming if you find other games!

[Cespenar]

I picked up the King's Bounty: Platinum Edition on steam for 29.99€, it's KB: Legend, KB: Armoured princess and the extension Crossworlds with extra campaigns. I guess that will keep me occupied for a long while, I clocked 13.5 hours over the week-end and I'm not even 1/4 of the way through. I am playing on Hard and I must say, it's quite a challenge. I got a couple of Game Over screens already from wandering monsters with 5 stacks of 200+ monsters.

Thanks for all the suggestions and keep them coming if you find other games!

That game (The Legend) is freakishly long, especially if you try to do all the side quests. Also, a good part of the game involves dodging around huge armies that will demolish you immediately. Even so, fun.

[Sprinter]

Is Jagged Alliance: Deadly Games any good? Got that as a freebie from GOG some time ago and have never got round to installing it.

I enjoyed Deadly Games its much improved compared to JA1 and unlike JA1 or JA2 its mission based. But it uses same engine as JA1 so JA2 is better.