Fog Spells: tips and tricks?

[Geigan]

I'm playing a typical conjurer battlefield control wizard and I'm curious on how to use spells like fog cloud (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fogCloud.htm). I've thought of a few uses but I'd like to hear the playground's thoughts. Any good uses for these mystical clouds of concealment and their myriad effects? Favorite spells, tactics, and anecdotes are all welcome.

[Zaq]

Get your hands on some source of Faerie Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/faerieFire.htm) ASAP. It's a Druid spell, but a Stormfire Ring (MIC, pg. 206) gives it 5 times per day for only 4,000 gold. Why, you ask? Well, fog spells provide concealment (sometimes even total concealment), which can hurt your allies as much as your enemies. Faerie Fire negates concealment for the creatures it affects . . . so your allies can hit your enemies just fine, despite being enshrouded in your billowing mist.

[Geigan]

...and you just eliminated the only problem I ever had with the fog spells. If having a double edged sword isn't helping then remove one of the edges. Thanks!:smallbiggrin:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Invisible SPell + Scorching Spell + Blistering Spell + Fell Drain

Automatic negative levels every round. No save, no SR.

Have a nice day.

[Zaq]

Do note that the standard action activation time on the Stormfire Ring kinda hurts, but it's usually worth it.

[Xtomjames]

Persistent Spell+Enduring Spell+ 2nd level Blindsight spell gives who ever you cast it on blindsight for a week. (Persistent spell ups it to 24 hours, Enduring Spell ups the length again to a week.)

Fog Spells that are widened are also useful, especially if cast on an object or person.

Cloud Kill is useful for damaging at a distance and fog spells mixed with darkness and silence (if the melee combat PCs aren't spell casters that is) works wonders.

[Amphetryon]

If memory serves, long-time WotC/BG poster jameswilliamogle has an optimized fog sorcerer build on those forums. It might be worth searching out.

[Saintheart]

Invisible SPell + Scorching Spell + Blistering Spell + Fell Drain

Automatic negative levels every round. No save, no SR.

Have a nice day.

Pretty sure (AFB) Fell Drain only applies to the first time you do damage with the spell per character. So yes, automatic negative level on the first round, but not after that.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Pretty sure (AFB) Fell Drain only applies to the first time you do damage with the spell per character. So yes, automatic negative level on the first round, but not after that.

Book says 'when opponent takes damage'. So it hits them every pulse.

[faceroll]

Get your hands on some source of Faerie Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/faerieFire.htm) ASAP. It's a Druid spell, but a Stormfire Ring (MIC, pg. 206) gives it 5 times per day for only 4,000 gold. Why, you ask? Well, fog spells provide concealment (sometimes even total concealment), which can hurt your allies as much as your enemies. Faerie Fire negates concealment for the creatures it affects . . . so your allies can hit your enemies just fine, despite being enshrouded in your billowing mist.

Is fog an effect similar to"darkness, blur, displacement, or invisibility"?

[Boci]

Is fog an effect similar to"darkness, blur, displacement, or invisibility"?

Yes. Both darkness and fog cloud obscure your vision, thus making your attacks less likely to hit.

[Yora]

Similar to darkness and blurr certainly.

However, when the spell says all sight is limited to 5 feet, that still applies to targets with fairy fire.

[faceroll]

Yes. Both darkness and fog cloud obscure your vision, thus making your attacks less likely to hit.

Yeah, I'm not buying it. Not being able to see someone because light is being messed with (darkness, blur, displacement) is quite different than there being too many things in the way to make the target out.

[Boci]

Yeah, I'm not buying it. Not being able to see someone because light is being messed with (darkness, blur, displacement) is quite different than there being too many things in the way to make the target out.

How? Name some other examples when they matter.

Also, what in your opinion is covered by the "and similar effects" clause then?

[faceroll]

How? Name some other examples when they matter.

Also, what in your opinion is covered by the "and similar effects" clause then?

Besides darkness (which gets negated with light spells), the other effects target creatures. Fog effects generate a concealing effect in squares beyond the target square because they have conjured actual physical stuff to get in the way of your vision. The method of concealment seems different- the ones listed in the faerie fire description are all based on seeing the opponent through illusion or evocation effects. For the illusion based effects, it's an effect on the creature. There's nothing in intervening squares to generate concealment, unlike with fog effects.

[Boci]

Besides darkness (which gets negated with light spells), the other effects target creatures. Fog effects generate a concealing effect in squares beyond the target square because they have conjured actual physical stuff to get in the way of your vision. The method of concealment seems different- the ones listed in the faerie fire description are all based on seeing the opponent through illusion or evocation effects. For the illusion based effects, it's an effect on the creature. There's nothing in intervening squares to generate concealment, unlike with fog effects.

True, but a target outlined in greenlight should be easier to hit in fog and darkness.

[Elboxo]

Sculpt spell ( Complete Arcane ) + 1 spell level and allows you to shape the spell, into a 20ft radius ball, four 10 ft cubes, a cylinder, or a 120 ft line. Make a line of concealment, move along it about 10 ft away from it and get 120 ft of full concealment, use the cubes and hit only specific areas to greatly damage foes and leave your teammates fine, use the cubes to make a 'hall' ( two 10 ft cubes side by side, with a parallel set seperated by 5 feet of unfogged area ) to create a clear path for you and teammates while confusing/blinding enemies.
Cast it straight on enemy casters/rangers or just infront of melée groups for best result, especially if one of your own fighters has blindfight for best effect, though creating the cubes on and infront of enemies works well too; they try to move forward out of it and run into more etc, mobbing a caster with it effectively gives you a round where they can't cast accurately or see what is happening ( time to invis + escape or orientate yourself at a different location like behind them ) you could cast it straight on guards or use the line the separate guards line of sight so you can go past. The possibilities go on

[Darrin]

True, but a target outlined in greenlight should be easier to hit in fog and darkness.

Some minor nitpicks:



Whether in the form of a low-lying cloud or a mist rising from the ground, fog obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. Creatures 5 feet away have concealment (attacks by or against them have a 20% miss chance).

(emphasis added)

So while faerie fire negates the concealment within 5', anything beyond that blocks LOS and you have to use some other non-sight method to target your opponent.

Also, faerie fire has no effect on magical darkness (2nd level [darkness] spell trumps a 1st level [light] spell).

Don't forget Torch Bug Paste: 25 GP, Complete Scoundrel p. 120. Throw as a grenade-like weapon, ranged touch attack with a 5' burst. Faerie fire effect (negates most concealment) and burns as bright as a torch for 1 hour.

[Geigan]

If memory serves, long-time WotC/BG poster jameswilliamogle has an optimized fog sorcerer build on those forums. It might be worth searching out.
I tried to find it but I didn't see any threads by him that related to that. Do you have a link?

Some minor nitpicks:


(emphasis added)

So while faerie fire negates the concealment within 5', anything beyond that blocks LOS and you have to use some other non-sight method to target your opponent.

Also, faerie fire has no effect on magical darkness (2nd level [darkness] spell trumps a 1st level [light] spell).

Don't forget Torch Bug Paste: 25 GP, Complete Scoundrel p. 120. Throw as a grenade-like weapon, ranged touch attack with a 5' burst. Faerie fire effect (negates most concealment) and burns as bright as a torch for 1 hour.
Mmm, torch bug paste. With that bit on the concealment only within 5', sounds like the best tactic is to hit em with faerie fire+fog of choice and surround with melee who have reach weapons for when it inevitably tries to get out. That of course doesn't work if you don't have enough people to surround effectively though it does get easier with higher level spells like say solid fog. Also doesn't work well when the enemy has those other means of targeting themselves but that probably means you should be using other battlefield control than fog (except solid fog because that is now my official favorite spell).

Other favorite tactics people have used with their groups?

[faceroll]

True, but a target outlined in greenlight should be easier to hit in fog and darkness.

I agree, and that would be the case when you're within the 20% miss range. Beyond that, however, I don't think a fate outline of light will do it. But that's getting into houserule territory.

[ericgrau]

Ya you can't see the faerie fire so it's pretty moot. Light can shine through mundane darkness and invisibility, but not a complete blanket of fog. You can try it throw common sense out the window and lawyer up the wording on what's "similar", but I don't buy it. At best - after you've discarded all common sense mind you - it's your word against the DM's.

Generally I'd prefer a spell like web for battlefield control. Fog is good for escapes without attacks of opportunity, or for forcing certain foes to move out of the fogged area. Tag archers to force them into melee, tag a hurt ally to force foes to engage someone else, etc. If you don't have higher level spells yet then flaming sphere is another good option in the meantime, plus it combos well with web for auto-hits and extra damage. The real battlefield control starts at level 3 and even more at levels 4-5. Glitterdust is an ok option, but the area of effect is low so it's hard to get foes tightly packed enough to make it worth it. Scorching ray is likewise ok, but at low levels you could actually miss.