Weird, but RAW legal, character ideas (3.5)

[The-Mage-King]

Right. I figured that it would be a good idea to see what wierd character ideas people have.

Personally, I like the Berbarian build. It's a grizzly sight.


But here's one of my own to get this started... Raptor (Diety's chosen).

Were-Raptor Half Troll Anthropomorphic Raptor Cleric.

Ideally, it'd be in Gestalt, due to it needing a minimum of 15 character levels before it gets to actual class levels, but hey. 8d8 HD while being a Raptor with regeneration is pretty cool too.

[Acanous]

Myself, I like the Weredirebunny template. Because nothing's more silly than were-shifting into a small-sized creature. Especially a Bunny.

[Wings of Peace]

Robo-Dragon, the all-terrain. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11573674&postcount=41)

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

I once had a character who was stronger and more helpful to the party dead than alive. Due to plot related things I was brought back to life for a session but then was promptly killed by my party members after I no longer needed to be alive. At least they had to decency to put some extra stuff in my coffin when they laid me to rest again.

(Also the title is misspelled)

[The-Mage-King]

(Also the title is misspelled)

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[faceroll]

Robo-Dragon, the all-terrain. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11573674&postcount=41)

That's not a legal character. You cannot apply either of those inherited half-breed templates to a warforged, and if you were somehow able to do so, they change the type, so the warforged would no longer qualify for incarnate construct.

[NNescio]

The Psionic Sandwich.

It also comes in various magical flavours, but those are less... satisfying.

[Wings of Peace]

That's not a legal character. You cannot apply either of those inherited half-breed templates to a warforged, and if you were somehow able to do so, they change the type, so the warforged would no longer qualify for incarnate construct.

There is no rule in the template entries themselves which denies me the ability to apply them to a Warforged.

Similarly the MM states that applied templates can be applied any time. By strict RAW I can choose to apply it before the inherited template.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Tauric Human + Lammasu, LA is only +3, a Cleric level gives you two more domains, and a dip into Prestige Paladin is extremely fitting. Use Spirited Charge without being mounted (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/inevitable.htm#zelekhut), combine with Leap Attack, Pounce, weapon attacks, 2 claws, and 2 rakes.

Werecreature Whisper Gnome + Serval (Sandstorm), I'd probably go (Unarmed) Swordsage with it, pick up Hide in Plain Sight from somewhere, and definitely take Darkstalker.

Neither of those are very over-the-top, the first one isn't even as good as a no-LA-Cleric in most situations, but both would be plenty of fun to play especially if you're looking for something different and don't mind a level adjustment.

Then there's the good ol' Dragonborn Water Orc Mineral Warrior, just don't plan on using your mental stats for anything.

[faceroll]

There is no rule in the template entries themselves which denies me the ability to apply them to a Warforged.

Similarly the MM states that applied templates can be applied any time. By strict RAW I can choose to apply it before the inherited template.

"Half-minotaur" is an inherited template that can be added to any creature of the giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid type (referred to hereafter as the "base creature") from Small to Huge in size.

"Half-ogre" is an inherited template that can be added to any creature of the giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid type (referred to hereafter as the "base creature") from Small to Huge in size.

Warforged is not a giant, it's not a humanoid, and it's not a monstrous humanoid.

"Some templates can be added to creatures anytime. Templates such as these are referred to as acquired templates, indicating that the creature did not always have the attributes of the template.

Other templates, known as inherited templates, are part of a creature from the beginning of its existence. Creatures are born with these templates. "

You can't have a template from the beginning of existence if you don't qualify for that template at the beginning of existence.

[dextercorvia]

That's not a legal character. You cannot apply either of those inherited half-breed templates to a warforged, and if you were somehow able to do so, they change the type, so the warforged would no longer qualify for incarnate construct.

Neither of the inherited templates changes Type. But, you do have to jump through hoops to apply Incarnate Construct first.

[Wings of Peace]

"Half-minotaur" is an inherited template that can be added to any creature of the giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid type (referred to hereafter as the "base creature") from Small to Huge in size.

"Half-ogre" is an inherited template that can be added to any creature of the giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid type (referred to hereafter as the "base creature") from Small to Huge in size.

Warforged is not a giant, it's not a humanoid, and it's not a monstrous humanoid.

"Some templates can be added to creatures anytime. Templates such as these are referred to as acquired templates, indicating that the creature did not always have the attributes of the template.

Other templates, known as inherited templates, are part of a creature from the beginning of its existence. Creatures are born with these templates. "

You can't have a template from the beginning of existence if you don't qualify for that template at the beginning of existence.

Anytime means any time, raw that can be the beginning of my existence which would allow me to apply Incarnate Construct which qualifies me for the other two templates.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There's always the possibility of using Effigy Creature of a [base creature plus pile of templates], then add Incarnate Construct. You'd lose most of the miscellaneous benefits of the templates, but the ability score bonuses, movement modes, natural attacks, etc. would stick around.

[Wings of Peace]

There's always the possibility of using Effigy Creature of a [base creature plus pile of templates], then add Incarnate Construct. You'd lose most of the miscellaneous benefits of the templates, but the ability score bonuses, movement modes, natural attacks, etc. would stick around.

Don't effigy creatures lack an entry for LA making them npc only?

[olentu]

Hmm I recall a passage in the monster manual that says to always apply inherited templates before acquired templates with regards to applying multiple templates. Let me see if I can find it.

Edit: Ah interesting under the section labeled "Adding More Than One Template" there is a sentence that says always apply inherited templates before applying acquired templates. Of course this is under the templates section of improving monsters but in any case this is probably what I was remembering.

[Wings of Peace]

Hmm I recall a passage in the monster manual that says to always apply inherited templates before acquired templates with regards to applying multiple templates. Let me see if I can find it.

Edit: Ah interesting under the section labeled "Adding More Than One Template" there is a sentence that says always apply inherited templates before applying acquired templates. Of course this is under the templates section of improving monsters but in any case this is probably what I was remembering.

Damnit Olentu, we already had a debate this past week about whether or not player characters are monsters. :smallamused:

[Daftendirekt]

May I present my personal favorite, the Iaijutsu Katana Thrower (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134276).

[olentu]

Damnit Olentu, we already had a debate this past week about whether or not player characters are monsters. :smallamused:

Ah well there is no need to go so far as to have another on my account.

[Godskook]

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=201155

[hamishspence]

What about weird but RAW legal interpretations of alignment?

The compassionate, altruistic Evil-aligned blackguard who reserves their evil deeds entirely for "those who deserve it"?

The organized, logical, analytical Chaotic character who puts these traits toward Chaotic ends?

The self-centred, arrogant Good character who does good, self-sacrificing deeds entirely because they find it pleasurable to bask in people's admiration and gratitude?

And so on?

[CTrees]

The Nazi-expy, LG Paladin, doing whatever he can to help humans and only humans, and leading the genocide of lesser races (what, "exterminate the goblin village" is so different than "exterminate the dwarf village?" they're both short, ugly, and smell bad!)

[faceroll]

The Nazi-expy, LG Paladin, doing whatever he can to help humans and only humans, and leading the genocide of lesser races (what, "exterminate the goblin village" is so different than "exterminate the dwarf village?" they're both short, ugly, and smell bad!)

That's not a paladin with class features, bro.

[ILM]

What about weird but RAW legal interpretations of alignment?
I'd argue 'weird but RAW' alignments only ever occur if you usually adopt a very black-and-white view of the alignment grid. I like playing with the various meanings of good and evil (or law and chaos) with my characters. My favourite character was the warmest, most motherly girl you could think of - except she was also a member (later, leader) of a thieves' guild, and sometimes bad things needed to happen to good people for the guild to thrive. Left to her own devices she generally tended to look out for people, but she never backed down from a job when it came to advancing the guild's interests. Lawful Evil and so much more.

[gkathellar]

Warforged Druid/Planar Shepherd. Because the only thing better than turning into a Pit Fiend/Planetar? Turning into a robot pit fiend/planetar with a pet dinosaur.


The Nazi-expy, LG Paladin, doing whatever he can to help humans and only humans, and leading the genocide of lesser races (what, "exterminate the goblin village" is so different than "exterminate the dwarf village?" they're both short, ugly, and smell bad!)

Any DM who doesn't slap that paladin in the face with a Fall (and possibly a wrench) is insane.

[hamishspence]

I'd argue 'weird but RAW' alignments only ever occur if you usually adopt a very black-and-white view of the alignment grid. I like playing with the various meanings of good and evil (or law and chaos) with my characters.

True- and books like Champions of Ruin and Eberron Campaign Setting do encourage this.

Still, it might sometimes be a little weird when the Evil guys come across as more moral in most respects, than the Good ones.

Fun though :smallamused:

[CTrees]

-Going out and destroying an entire village of orcs/goblins/kobolds/ogres/lizardfolk/drow/etc. is a time honored adventuring tradition, and doesn't cause any alignment conflicts for a LG Paladin (taking captives could be a problem, because the rules are weird. killing? fine)
-That ethnic cleansing is purely based on racial lines. "Usually CE" does not mean "always CE," and if you're breaking into these unsuspecting, sentient humanoid's homes and slaughtering them, not bothering to ask questions at any point, well, that's traditional adventuring fare, and we have decades of precedent in re: that doesn't cause an alignment shift.
-Killing based solely on ethnic lines, without actually knowing if the targets are evil or not, is clearly established as kosher.
-There are some evil dwarves/elves/gnomes/etc. Our racist paladin isn't stuck knowing that they're all good, which would cause him problems.
-Paladin refrains from using Detect Evil

By D&D logic... it seems consistent.

.............................

Regardless, one could easily limit it to non-human/elf/dwarf/halfling/gnome races are abominations, and not stray at all from the standard D&D murder ethics. I mean, killing orcs is good, right? Killing them all must be better! So, there *are* more limited ways for our paladin to get his Nazi on (which are also less likely to run into problems with other party members...)

And actually, one story arc I've considered working up involved the PCs working for a prominent paladin. They get sent off to wipe out various groups of orcs/goblins/ogres/etc., all in the name of the common good/they were theives/they've been attacking traders/protecting the city/they were planning to attack us. Gradually the party finds out that this is the more publically friendly face of his campaign of ethnic cleansing, and that none of these groups we actually a threat. The actions of the PCs and groups like them has led to the paladin gaining more and more political power, though, and his movement has spread. If the PCs don't revolt here, have a disenchanted, "more good" group try to dissuade, then attack, the PCs (preferably while they're out on a mission). If this still doesn't work... have the paladin move onto a group like gnomes (they're goblin spawn!) or just something included in the party. Force the party to either kill a member, or revolt, at which point, the mission becomes "topple the paladin." At this point they can find the paladin has become a blackguard, was just pretending to be a paladin, whatever.

[hamishspence]

-Going out and destroying an entire village of orcs/goblins/kobolds/ogres/lizardfolk/drow/etc. is a time honored adventuring tradition, and doesn't cause any alignment conflicts for a LG Paladin (taking captives could be a problem, because the rules are weird. killing? fine)
-That ethnic cleansing is purely based on racial lines. "Usually CE" does not mean "always CE," and if you're breaking into these unsuspecting, sentient humanoid's homes and slaughtering them, not bothering to ask questions at any point, well, that's traditional adventuring fare, and we have decades of precedent in re: that doesn't cause an alignment shift.
-Killing based solely on ethnic lines, without actually knowing if the targets are evil or not, is clearly established as kosher.
-There are some evil dwarves/elves/gnomes/etc. Our racist paladin isn't stuck knowing that they're all good, which would cause him problems.
-Paladin refrains from using Detect Evil

By D&D logic... it seems consistent.

BoED is the most emphatic about how this is not on- it takes just cause, and good intentions, for violence to be justifiable.

And some D&D authors have tended to take the same view- at least, over time.

PHB also suggests that judging beings purely by the race, not their behaviour, is LE in nature.

[gkathellar]

-snip-

I really hate the approach to alignment and species politics you're describing. I know it's the gold standard that most D&D writers seem to stand by, but it's just completely horrible by any reasonable standard of morality.

[ImperatorK]

Killing EVIL orcs is good. Killing orcs not.

[CTrees]

I really hate the approach to alignment and species politics you're describing. I know it's the gold standard that most D&D writers seem to stand by, but it's just completely horrible by any reasonable standard of morality.

Absolutely agreed. It's completely ridiculous. But if you're stuck with a system, literally imposed by the gods in the system... might as well play with it.

[Drachasor]

-Going out and destroying an entire village of orcs/goblins/kobolds/ogres/lizardfolk/drow/etc. is a time honored adventuring tradition, and doesn't cause any alignment conflicts for a LG Paladin (taking captives could be a problem, because the rules are weird. killing? fine)
-That ethnic cleansing is purely based on racial lines. "Usually CE" does not mean "always CE," and if you're breaking into these unsuspecting, sentient humanoid's homes and slaughtering them, not bothering to ask questions at any point, well, that's traditional adventuring fare, and we have decades of precedent in re: that doesn't cause an alignment shift.
-Killing based solely on ethnic lines, without actually knowing if the targets are evil or not, is clearly established as kosher.
-There are some evil dwarves/elves/gnomes/etc. Our racist paladin isn't stuck knowing that they're all good, which would cause him problems.
-Paladin refrains from using Detect Evil

If your Paladin goes out randomly killing goblins or whatever who have done no wrong, then a fall should be coming.

Frankly, there's a reason why most DMs don't put a bunch of goblin non-combatants out there. It's a messy situation that most people don't want to deal with. If they are placed, however, then slaughtering them is an evil act. A Neutral character could get away with it somewhat regularly (I think), but a LG paladin would fall the first time. In fact, the LG Paladin would be required to attempt to stop such an atrocity.

Also, from what I know of the rules, a Paladin under a number of circumstances could execute a captive. Assuming there's no decent law of the land and the captive is guilty of many evil crimes, then it is allowable to act as judge, jury, and executioner. Executing someone for crimes committed is not an evil act in D&D -- Mace Windu would be a perfectly fine Pally. So if a Paladin comes across a bunch of Orcs (or humans or whatever) raping and pillaging, he can put those that surrender to the sword. Of course, if there's a legal authority that one can take them to, then that can be done. Of course, if doing that puts more lives in danger (say you gotta save the world on a time limit), then that need not be done.

[CTrees]

Killing EVIL orcs is good. Killing orcs not.

If there were good orcs in that village, they wouldn't've tolerated the evil ones, and would have either left, or fought to overthrow the evil ones. Their association is proof of their guilt!

Note: I don't actually believe anything I'm writing in this thread, but as I layed out in that campaign outline, it seems like a fun way to play with the usual PC behavior

[ImperatorK]

What if none of the orcs in the village are evil? What if they're neutral? What if the non-evil ones can't just leave like that?
And even if they are all evil, what gives you the right to attack them when they didn't do anything to deserve it?
By writing EVIL I meant actively evil by attacking innocent people, killing and pillaging and stuff. Not all orcs do that, even if they're evil.

[Drachasor]

If there were good orcs in that village, they wouldn't've tolerated the evil ones, and would have either left, or fought to overthrow the evil ones. Their association is proof of their guilt!

Note: I don't actually believe anything I'm writing in this thread, but as I layed out in that campaign outline, it seems like a fun way to play with the usual PC behavior

Letting the evil orcs go would be irresponsible. The good orcs would clearly keep them in the village to reform them.

[gkathellar]

Absolutely agreed. It's completely ridiculous. But if you're stuck with a system, literally imposed by the gods in the system... might as well play with it.

I think that's an absolutely awesome Epic Campaign waiting to happen.

"Guys, have you noticed that the gods are pretty much the worst people ever? Even the Lawful Good ones."
"Yeah, I have noticed that."
"So, uh, why don't we do what adventurers do best and kill them all?"
"I have been looking for something to kill. Sure."

[Asheram]

The Nazi-expy, LG Paladin, doing whatever he can to help humans and only humans, and leading the genocide of lesser races (what, "exterminate the goblin village" is so different than "exterminate the dwarf village?" they're both short, ugly, and smell bad!)

*ponders* Do you have to worship within one step of your gods alignment. Zarus (lesser known god, Races of destiny) would be a perfect fit there.

[faceroll]

By writing EVIL I meant actively evil by attacking innocent people, killing and pillaging and stuff. Not all orcs do that, even if they're evil.

And not all orcs that attack the innocent or pillage are evil.

[Fax Celestis]

Warforged Artificer 5/Reforged 3/Renegade Mastermaker 5/Warforged Juggernaut 7.

Start out a golem, turn into a human, turn back into a golem, and then turn into a supergolem.

[hamishspence]

*ponders* Do you have to worship within one step of your gods alignment. Zarus (lesser known god, Races of destiny) would be a perfect fit there.

Zarus is LE though.

There is a LN deity of bigotry that might qualify- Wastri the Hopping Prophet:

http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Wastri

but in general it would be difficult for a LG character to get away with being bigoted, unless they overtly avoid doing evil acts.

Being a "Noble Bigot" so to speak.

[Drachasor]

Zarus is LE though.

There is a LN deity of bigotry that might qualify- Wastri the Hopping Prophet:

http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Wastri

but in general it would be difficult for a LG character to get away with being bigoted, unless they overtly avoid doing evil acts.

Being a "Noble Bigot" so to speak.

Doing an evil act is going to make you lose your status even if your deity is ok with it, by RAW.

[Greenish]

Warforged Artificer 5/Reforged 3/Renegade Mastermaker 5/Warforged Juggernaut 7.

Start out a golem, turn into a human, turn back into a golem, and then turn into a supergolem.Haha, cool, but you'd need 10 levels of Renegade Mastermaker to qualify for Juggernaut, I'm afraid.

[Analytica]

I think that's an absolutely awesome Epic Campaign waiting to happen.

"Guys, have you noticed that the gods are pretty much the worst people ever? Even the Lawful Good ones."
"Yeah, I have noticed that."
"So, uh, why don't we do what adventurers do best and kill them all?"
"I have been looking for something to kill. Sure."

Do want. :smallsmile:

[hamishspence]

Doing an evil act is going to make you lose your status even if your deity is ok with it, by RAW.

Yup.

Grey Guard paladins can get away with committing evil acts once they're gotten their capstone- but they still have to be doing things for good reasons, in the line of duty.

A bigoted paladin would have to avoid doing any evil acts, to retain their status, normally.

[Fax Celestis]

Haha, cool, but you'd need 10 levels of Renegade Mastermaker to qualify for Juggernaut, I'm afraid.

I couldn't remember which level it was on. Artificer 5/Reforged 3/Renegade Mastermaker 10/Warforged Juggernaut 2 should do it then.

[The-Mage-King]

...How can a weird character repository turn into an alignment debate within one page? HOW?!

[RedWarrior0]

Animal companions gain feats from level up. This includes, for example, Martial Study, to gain maneuvers. So you could have an animal companion using, quite possibly, White Raven Tactics or Iron Heart Surge. Headsplosions.

Also, while not strictly a character build either, the Fiendish or Celestial template, upon vermin, removes mindlessness. Said vermin, such as can be summoned by Summon Monster spells, now qualify for feats. See previous paragraph.

[MrRigger]

I think that's an absolutely awesome Epic Campaign waiting to happen.

"Guys, have you noticed that the gods are pretty much the worst people ever? Even the Lawful Good ones."
"Yeah, I have noticed that."
"So, uh, why don't we do what adventurers do best and kill them all?"
"I have been looking for something to kill. Sure."

Did this with a character in Forgotten Realms once. He was a LE Necropolitan Dread Necromancer who didn't worship a god, and in fact hated the deities in power. He wasn't a fan of the Evil Gods because Evil is a competitive game, and most Evil Deities don't have good intentions for the human race, and he while he appreciated the Good and Neutral Deities for allowing the Wall of the Faithless to exist. His reasoning was that even since even the best person in the world (he feeds homeless orphans and rescues kittens daily) can be stuck in the Wall of the Faithless where their soul is devoured for eternity just because they didn't worship a deity (too busy creating peace between warring cities), the Good Deities couldn't truly be Good. A Good Deity wouldn't allow that sort of thing to happen.

As for unusual character ideas, how about a WereDog Anthropomorphic Cat? Just think of the warring psyche that would cause.

MrRigger

[MeeposFire]

...How can a weird character repository turn into an alignment debate within one page? HOW?!

Because alignment can kill anything.

[hamishspence]

"Weird, but legal" can apply to a lot of things.

A Blackguard with Chronic Hero Syndrome:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChronicHeroSyndrome

played like Sir Tropesalot, would be a pretty weird character.

Doing a D&D character's culture differently, could produce a certain amount of weirdness. A dwarven society which is more like traditional elven society, could be weird in the eyes of other players.

[erikun]

*ponders* Do you have to worship within one step of your gods alignment. Zarus (lesser known god, Races of destiny) would be a perfect fit there.
A Cleric needs to be one step within their deity. Technically, you can have a LG Paladin of any deity, even evil ones. It won't help much with preventing falling from evil deeds, though.

I've been looking at putting together a character focused entirely on Constitution (and Concentration) checks. A Warblade/Deepwarden/Kensai seems to work best, although dealing damage is a bit questionable.

[Tvtyrant]

My heart still gags at the sight of more then two base classes or 1 Prc. So technically all optimized builds look like monsters to me.

[erikun]

My heart still gags at the sight of more then two base classes or 1 Prc. So technically all optimized builds look like monsters to me.
But a Dread Necromancer/Cleric of a death deity/True Necromancer who uses all his spells for healing and warding against evil is so much more thematically appropriate for the given classes? :smallconfused:

[Tvtyrant]

But a Dread Necromancer/Cleric of a death deity/True Necromancer who uses all his spells for healing and warding against evil is so much more thematically appropriate for the given classes? :smallconfused:

What? Where did that example come from? I was simply stating that the more dips a class has the more I instinctively shy away from it.

[The Gilded Duke]

I once made a blind hobgoblin artificer. He didn't gain any mechanical benefits for being blind. He was however more adapted to fighting in the dark (blind fight, high listen score etc) And then he would use his artificer powers to make sure everyone was blind. (Darkness, Clouds etc)

Then came the Quickened True Strike Power Attacks.

Not as mechanically weird, but in a Forgotten Realms game I once played a "Red Wizard of Neverwinter". He was actually a wilder tourist from Sigil. The whole session he went around getting autographs from major npcs. He accepted a quest from the King of the Fire Giants only requiring a single piece of payment... that he be allowed to say a single word in the Fire Giant's Great Hall.

The King agreed, and the giants braced themselves wondering if it would be Power Word Pain or something similar.

Instead he shouted "THEATER"

[kestrel404]

I've got an amusing, raw-legal TO build that I made up while trying to come up with a way to do a Gestalt character without actually using Gestalt rules.

Start out as a Factotum 20, w/ a thought bottle.
Get turned into a ghoul. Have the ghoul that turned you killed.
You're now a 2HD (+2LA) undead creature. Touch the Thought bottle.
You've now got the XP of a level 20 character - but you no longer qualify for your old class levels because you've got racial HD - so instead you take 1 level of Warblade and 1 level of Duskblade, which qualifies you for Emancipated Spawn - of which you ONLY TAKE 2 LEVELS. You are now a CR 8 character with access to the Inspiration pool, feats, and class features of a level 20 factotum + 3 extra feats (1st, 3rd and 6th level feats from your 'new life'). One of those feats (probably 3rd level) should be Versatile Spellcaster, while one of the feats in your old build should be Heighten Spell. This means you've got the ability to cast 2nd level spells, plus you've got more than 1 maneuver (at least one of which is probably a strike). With maxed-out concentration ranks and a few ranks in knowledge skills, you qualify for Jade Phoenix Mage. Two levels of that, and you can buy off your LA, followed by 3 more levels and buying off your second LA. Because you started at ECL 4 with 2 HD and had to buy off levels, you won't be able to make it back up to level 20 with your old XP total, but you can make it back to level 19, so you've got 3 levels left. Abjurant Champion is probably a good idea, although going back and taking a Duskblade +3 for Arcane Channelling and casting in medium armor may be a better plan.
You end up as a Duskblade/Warblade/JPM//Factotum effective gestalt.

But that's only the beginning. Take the feat that lets undead shape soulmelds and you can use that Factotum class feature to emulate other class's class features to shape Incarnate soulmelds as a level 20 Incarnate (by taking the Shape Soulmeld + Rapid Meldshaping class features) - and since these soulmelds don't unshape automatically, you get to keep them. If your Con score is high enough, you can have up to 9 of them, with the ability to change up to 3/day. Plus, for 1 feat and 1 use of that ability/day, you can bind up to 4 Vestiges per day as a level 20 binder.

So basically, you've got all the best class features of Factotum, Warblade, Duskblade, Binder and Incarnate. I figure, if you stack enough Tier 3 classes together then eventually you end up with a tier 1 build.

[dextercorvia]

My heart still gags at the sight of more then two base classes or 1 Prc. So technically all optimized builds look like monsters to me.

Have you met the intended (?) entry for Fochlucan Lyricist?

[The-Mage-King]

As for unusual character ideas, how about a WereDog Anthropomorphic Cat? Just think of the warring psyche that would cause.

MrRigger
Won't work, sadly.

Anthropomorphic animals are Monstrous Humanoids, while the Canithropy template requires Humanoid or Giant.


Half troll fixes that, though.

[faceroll]

I've got an amusing, raw-legal TO build that I made up while trying to come up with a way to do a Gestalt character without actually using Gestalt rules.

Start out as a Factotum 20, w/ a thought bottle.
Get turned into a ghoul. Have the ghoul that turned you killed.
You're now a 2HD (+2LA) undead creature. Touch the Thought bottle.
You've now got the XP of a level 20 character - but you no longer qualify for your old class levels because you've got racial HD - so instead you take 1 level of Warblade and 1 level of Duskblade, which qualifies you for Emancipated Spawn - of which you ONLY TAKE 2 LEVELS. You are now a CR 8 character with access to the Inspiration pool, feats, and class features of a level 20 factotum + 3 extra feats (1st, 3rd and 6th level feats from your 'new life'). One of those feats (probably 3rd level) should be Versatile Spellcaster, while one of the feats in your old build should be Heighten Spell. This means you've got the ability to cast 2nd level spells, plus you've got more than 1 maneuver (at least one of which is probably a strike). With maxed-out concentration ranks and a few ranks in knowledge skills, you qualify for Jade Phoenix Mage. Two levels of that, and you can buy off your LA, followed by 3 more levels and buying off your second LA. Because you started at ECL 4 with 2 HD and had to buy off levels, you won't be able to make it back up to level 20 with your old XP total, but you can make it back to level 19, so you've got 3 levels left. Abjurant Champion is probably a good idea, although going back and taking a Duskblade +3 for Arcane Channelling and casting in medium armor may be a better plan.
You end up as a Duskblade/Warblade/JPM//Factotum effective gestalt.

But that's only the beginning. Take the feat that lets undead shape soulmelds and you can use that Factotum class feature to emulate other class's class features to shape Incarnate soulmelds as a level 20 Incarnate (by taking the Shape Soulmeld + Rapid Meldshaping class features) - and since these soulmelds don't unshape automatically, you get to keep them. If your Con score is high enough, you can have up to 9 of them, with the ability to change up to 3/day. Plus, for 1 feat and 1 use of that ability/day, you can bind up to 4 Vestiges per day as a level 20 binder.

So basically, you've got all the best class features of Factotum, Warblade, Duskblade, Binder and Incarnate. I figure, if you stack enough Tier 3 classes together then eventually you end up with a tier 1 build.

Me gusta.

adfsgsadfhafh

[thorr-kan]

Half-orc dwarven defender.

[Daftendirekt]

Half-orc dwarven defender.

What? Orcs can defend dwarves. Duh.

[Taelas]

Zarus is LE though.

I could see a human Paladin of Zarus, as long as he does not act on the subjugating-other-races thing, ever.

[Xtomjames]

Some of the weirdest builds I've come up with are based on anime characters and video games.

For example: A Quickling half Dire Hedgehog Barbarian 4 (total level of 8) with the Lion totem pounce ability and Whirlwind Attack gets you Sonic the Hedgehog.

Human male Were-Girl monk 10 with a were trigger of cold/hot water gives you Ranma Soutome from Ranma 1/2. (Noting a were-sex class comes from book of erotic fantasy).

This one is arguable for RAW eligibility because of various rules on class limitations for pixies, but a were-vorpal bunny pixie druid is always fun to play. The bite attack, while only doing 1d3 damage has a 50% chance of chopping off an enemy's head.

True Tank is a Thri-kreen with the Construct Graft of two arms, fighter, who carries four tower shields and two light weapons for his two smaller arms.


A not so weird but fun build would be the Archon Hound Rogue

Ashiar (Shade) (Shadow Walker Template)
Male Desert Gnomes Gestalt Warlock 20 Illusionist 5 Shadowcraft Mage 5 Shadowcrafter 10

My new favorite would be the Male Vampire 8/ Quickling 3/ Lion-Totem Barbarian 1 / Rogue 4/ Monk 4 character (though if I were to gestalt him he'd be better). His total feats list is huge

Feats:
Vampire:
Alertness
Combat Reflexes
Lightning Reflexes
Dodge
Improved Initiative

Quickling:
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Weapon Finesse
Evasion
Uncanny Dodge
Supernatural Speed**
Natural Invisibility**

Rogue: Evasion
Uncanny Dodge
Monk:
Evasion
Bonus Feats (monk); Deft Strike
Mighty Leaping
*Improved Evasion (stack of Rogue and Monk)
*Improved Uncanny Dodge (Stack of Quickling and Rogue)
*Improved Dodge (Stack Quickling and Vampire)
Chosen Feats: Combat Expertise
Whirlwind Attack
Neraph Charge
Armed Flurry of Blows
Barbarian: Pounce**, Run
(*When you gain an ability twice from two sources they stack granting a higher version of the original.
** Not technically a feat but an ability gained either racially or through variant construction)

[faceroll]

Anthro Octopus Artificer with insectile template, girallon's blessing, and arms of plenty. That's 14 appendages that can hold wands of scorching ray, that are then split and twinned to generate 56 rays/round.

[Kaje]

I couldn't remember which level it was on. Artificer 5/Reforged 3/Renegade Mastermaker 10/Warforged Juggernaut 2 should do it then.Unless I'm missing some errata, Reforged doesn't actually turn the warforged into a humanoid. Can still do warforged artificer 5/renegade mastermaker 10 / warforged juggernaut 5 if you apply the incarnate construct template some time before level 6.

[dextercorvia]

Anthro Octopus Artificer with insectile template, girallon's blessing, and arms of plenty. That's 14 appendages that can hold wands of scorching ray, that are then split and twinned to generate 56 rays/round.

I know about double wand wielder. Is there a Multi-wand weilder?

[Arbane]

Instead he shouted "THEATER"

:smallbiggrin:

A few goofy ideas I've had:

A Dwarf Wizard/Fighter (or some more effective equivalent) with the Craft Magical Armor/Weapons feats. _Someone_ makes all those magic axes and such, and it'd be irresponsible not to test them before selling them...

An Awakened Housecat with Rogue levels: Tibbles, Freelance Familiar. Currently working as a bodyguard to the party's Wizard.

[Greenish]

Animal companions gain feats from level up. This includes, for example, Martial Study, to gain maneuvers. So you could have an animal companion using, quite possibly, White Raven Tactics or Iron Heart Surge. Headsplosions.Give your mount Martial Study (any Shadow Hand) and Martial Stance (Island of Blades). Now you can flank with your mount while riding on it. :smalltongue:


My heart still gags at the sight of more then two base classes or 1 Prc. So technically all optimized builds look like monsters to me.Not all optimized builds multiclass. Druid20 or Druid10/Planar Shepherd10, for example. :smalltongue:

[Vemynal]

I once had a character who was a:
+3 LA Half Dragon Template/ 11 Duskblade/ 4 Lich template class/ 2Duskblade

I built him because I wanted an Anti-caster character who would be immune to fire, ice and lightning as well as have the Lich benefits

Legal because:
For the Lich template class:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a
Requirements:
"First, the base character must have the Craft Wondrous Item feat so that she can make a phylactery to hold her life force."

Done


"Second, she must be able to cast spells at a caster level of 11th or higher."

the SRD says:
"A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell."

and the PHB2 makes no mention of whether a Duskblade's caster level is really his level or some other modified amount

***Specifically the Lich template class does not require an individual to be humanoid to enter the class. So despite being a half dragon I *can* enter it by RAW (though maybe not by RAI)***


He ended up being horrible because at level 20 he only had 13 hit dice lol, like playing a vampire but easier to kill >_>

The non-legal part was that my friend gave me dragon disciple hit dice for the half dragon levels and a homebrewed feat that allows Cha to HP for undead. Made him a fun playable character

Actually I just realized; he's Astaroth in my signature lol

[faceroll]

I know about double wand wielder. Is there a Multi-wand weilder?

Text of Double Wand Wielder Feat:
Prerequisite: Craft Wand, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you can wield a wand in each hand (if you have both hands free), with one wand designated as your primary wand and the other your secondary wand. Each use of the secondary wand expends 2 charges from it instead of 1.

[thorr-kan]

What? Orcs can defend dwarves. Duh.

Dwarven Defender PrC requires you to be a dwarf. Stoneblessed PrC allows you to be a (dwarf, gnome, goliath) for racial prequisites.

Presto!

Half-orc dwarven defender.

[dextercorvia]

Text of Double Wand Wielder Feat:
Prerequisite: Craft Wand, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you can wield a wand in each hand (if you have both hands free), with one wand designated as your primary wand and the other your secondary wand. Each use of the secondary wand expends 2 charges from it instead of 1.

That's weird. I thought this was the thread for RAW legal builds. I see a distinct lack of ability to use any more than two wands, even if you are able to wield (hold ready for use) 38 of them.