CR 17 PC'S vs NPC WIZARD 20

[dkist]

Hello everyone;

I have a question and need an urgent reply?

Our DM is using the same tactics AND combos over the years :) And we still can't find a way to stop

" TIME STOP + FORCECAGE + ANTIMAGIC RAY :smallsigh:"

how can I (wiz 18 - int 19) can break this combo even without spotting the boss ?

Please help :smalleek:...

P.s.: There is also WALL OF FORCE and ANTIMAGIC FIELD combo we cannot able to stop :smallannoyed:

[Parra]

Contingency: If Time Stop is cast by Baddie/not-other-player then Teleport.

Antimagic Field: Cast Shrink item on a Giant Bowl (big enough to stand in) and wear it as a hat. As soon as the antimagic field hits the bowl/hat it reverts to its giant size. Since antimagic field is an emination its not blocked by the bowl/hat leaving you free to act. (Tower Shields also work here)

[Boci]

I don't think you can be targetted by an anti-magic ray during time stop and besides, it allows a save, so all it is a non-mind affecting swill save or die.

[Quietus]

I don't think you can be targetted by an anti-magic ray during time stop and besides, it allows a save, so all it is a non-mind affecting swill save or die.

This is an excellent point. If he anti-magic rays you during the time stop, pointedly ask him how he's using a targeted spell during that time. Also, does Anti-magic Ray stop your gear from functioning? If not, then carry a rod of cancellation to break out of the forcecage, or somesuch.

[dkist]

Contingency: If Time Stop is cast by Baddie/not-other-player then Teleport.

Antimagic Field: Cast Shrink item on a Giant Bowl (big enough to stand in) and wear it as a hat. As soon as the antimagic field hits the bowl/hat it reverts to its giant size. Since antimagic field is an emination its not blocked by the bowl/hat leaving you free to act. (Tower Shields also work here)

wow THAT may work :)


This is an excellent point. If he anti-magic rays you during the time stop, pointedly ask him how he's using a targeted spell during that time. Also, does Anti-magic Ray stop your gear from functioning? If not, then carry a rod of cancellation to break out of the forcecage, or somesuch.

Delayed or Quicken spell perhaps :smallmad:

[Telonius]

Hello everyone;

I have a question and need an urgent reply?

Our DM is using the same tactics AND combos over the years :) And we still can't find a way to stop

" TIME STOP + FORCECAGE + ANTIMAGIC RAY :smallsigh:"

how can I (wiz 18 - int 19) can break this combo even without spotting the boss ?

Please help :smalleek:...

P.s.: There is also WALL OF FORCE and ANTIMAGIC FIELD combo we cannot able to stop :smallannoyed:

Carry around a scroll of Dimension Door. Antimagic Ray either affects an Item or a Target, not both. UMD Dimension Door to get out of the cage.

For Wall of Force, change into an Earth Elemental, and go under it. Earth Glide is an Extraordinary ability, and therefore not subject to Antimagic Field; Elementals aren't affected unless they're summoned.

[faceroll]

It's not quite a legit combo, as presented. The wizard has to hit you with anti-magic ray prior to caging you, and he can't do that while he's time stopped (unless he's using the metamagic feat delay spell).

If you have ray deflection up, he may not even be able to land the touch attack. Anti magic ray also allows a will save- get that up. Foresight and Celerity should let you go first, no matter what, since you'll be able to use immediate actions in the surprise round. Immediately cast celerity, gain a standard action to cast time stop, then do whatever you feel like.

You could also pick up the Initiate of Mystra feat. It lets you cast in an antimagic field. Spend your time safely in the cage buffing yourself, then pop out and gank a very surprised wizard.


Carry around a scroll of Dimension Door. Antimagic Ray either affects an Item or a Target, not both. UMD Dimension Door to get out of the cage.

For Wall of Force, change into an Earth Elemental, and go under it. Earth Glide is an Extraordinary ability, and therefore not subject to Antimagic Field; Elementals aren't affected unless they're summoned.

Isn't turning into an elemental magic, so your polymorph effect gets surpressed?

[Parra]

Spell Turning and Greater Spell Immunity might also be handy (in a contingency ofc)

[dkist]

Spell Turning and Greater Spell Immunity might also be handy (in a contingency ofc)

Spell Immunity,Greater to ANTIMAGIC RAY ;) This will work?

[Runestar]

Spell turning can't deflect rays, IIRC, since they are not considered targeted spells.

What you can do is to try and disrupt his time stop. Ready actions to counterspell or hit him with ranged attacks when he tries to cast a spell?

Otherwise yeah, that is how I would probably play a high lv wizard myself. That's all they have going for them, since their pitiful hp means a fighter can probably 1-shot them on a full attack. :smallannoyed:

[dkist]

Than one more question?

How can I defeat him in one stroke :smallcool:

He is LICH / RED WIZARD / SHADOW ADEPT protected by every spell from 9 to 5 level. Nearly half of his spell are used for protections and immunuties also have "3" rings of counterspell for greater dispel magic and teleports after our first attack :smallfurious:

We are party of 5 characters. Cleric + Druid + Wizard + Rogue + Barbarian :smallwink:

[Telonius]

Isn't turning into an elemental magic, so your polymorph effect gets surpressed?

Depends on the exact situation. An individual PC would find it difficult to get out of a small Wall of Force set up to trap somebody, but Antimagic Field only has a 10-foot radius and the Wizard would have to be parked right next to the Wall in order to really keep him there. The rest of the group would be free to murder the Wizard, who also can't cast spells (unless he has Mastery of Shaping or some similar way to carve out a hole in the spell). If the wizard catches more than one person in the Wall, the trapped area is too big for him to completely cover.

If he's just using the wall to block an entryway, the Earth Glide method works perfectly well to get one person through.

[Parra]

Wish/Miracle gained through a Gated Solar isnt bad start

[dkist]

Wish/Miracle gained through a Gated Solar isnt bad start

We have a house rule for that...

"FAMILIARTY FOR SUMMON magics & ALTERNATE FORMS etc WE MUST CHECK FAMILIARTY dc 10 + hd, and must meet in PERSON :smallsmile:"

To summon a SOLAR I must beat FAMILIARTY VS 33 :( Not imposible but

The worst part is "our party have only 1 round -shot- to kill him :(

His only weakness is being a RED WIZARD of THAY with 40CL + FREE metamagiced spells :smallfrown:

[Telonius]

Than one more question?

How can I defeat him in one stroke :smallcool:

He is LICH / RED WIZARD / SHADOW ADEPT protected by every spell from 9 to 5 level. Nearly half of his spell are used for protections and immunuties also have "3" rings of counterspell for greater dispel magic and teleports after our first attack :smallfurious:

We are party of 5 characters. Cleric + Druid + Wizard + Rogue + Barbarian :smallwink:

This sounds like a job for Reciporcal Gyre!

EDIT: Or, Time Stop/Antimagic Ray. :smallamused:

[dkist]

This sounds like a job for Reciporcal Gyre!

EDIT: Or, Time Stop/Antimagic Ray. :smallamused:

thats sound great :) 25d6 woohooo

EDIT: :smallcool:

[Runestar]

Winning initiative would be a good start, since that is practically what high lv combat boils down to.


He is LICH / RED WIZARD / SHADOW ADEPT protected by every spell from 9 to 5 level

You mean he is immune to spells of 1st to 5th lv, or 5th to 9th lv? :smallconfused:

For a start, there's suspended silence, a 3rd lv spell from spell compendium. If your wizard has the archmage's reach HLA, or some way of converting touch to ranged touch, he can make any item on the lich emanate a silence radius, which can delay the lich if he doesn't have silent spells prepared or access to SLAs.

[dkist]

Winning initiative would be a good start, since that is practically what high lv combat boils down to.



You mean he is immune to spells of 1st to 5th lv, or 5th to 9th lv? :smallconfused:

For a start, there's suspended silence, a 3rd lv spell from spell compendium. If your wizard has the archmage's reach HLA, or some way of converting touch to ranged touch, he can make any item on the lich emanate a silence radius, which can delay the lich if he doesn't have silent spells prepared or access to SLAs.

How can I maximize my initiative...

He is protected by every possible spells from 5th to 9th..

Once we try to stop him like this and he http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm to MATURE ADULT RED dragon

[Parra]

Winning initiative would be a good start, since that is practically what high lv combat boils down to.


Celerity helps you with that

[Runestar]

Well, from what I see, your DM could certainly be playing the wizard a lot worse, and a mature red is actually one of the weaker forms he might shapeshift into.

To derail a little, he uses spell compendium, and completely ignores spells like elminster's evasion or effulgent epuration?:smallamused: I mean, sure, he can use the antimagic+forcecage combo to shut down one of your PCs, but what are the other 4 doing? It is a five-on-one gangbang, the DM doesn't seem to be going out of his way to break up the party, so you all should still have the advantage in terms of action economy.

I mean, this is what a higher lv wizard could be doing, and the writer was already intentionally limiting his choice of spells for thematic purposes.

TACTICS ROUND-BY-ROUND
- Elminster prefers giving advice (or a snide remark) to combat. He never engages in a fight if not prepared, and only then if the need is great. If forced into combat against limited opposition, he will fight first with any magic items he may be carrying (such as wands) before using his spells. If facing very magically protected opponents of great evil, he will, with a heavy heart, use Mordenkainen’s disjunction to remove their spell protections first (he hates to destroy magic in such a manner).

Prior to Combat (if possible): Elminster’s effulgent epuration (or spell turning if the epuration has been used, dispelled, or is best conserved for later) and know protections, along with ghostgrail if the enemy is undead.

Round 1: Quickened Khelben’s suspended silence using arcane reach on a spellcaster, and twinned hold monster if two or more additional opponents are visible; otherwise maze against largest non-spellcasting threat.

Round 2: Time stop and cast spells needed based on opposition; if facing epic level adversaries use a wish to give opponents -9 penalties to save for 1 minute. Good spells to unleash during time stop are maximized ball lightning, blink or improved blink, mislead, mirror image, and true seeing, as well as vocalize if someone has cast silence in the area.

Round 3: Target a particularly dangerous opponent with forcecage, flesh to stone, imprisonment (using arcane reach), or the Simbul's skeletal deliquescence (using arcane reach).

Round 4+: Begin eliminating targets one by one with maximized cold of cold (using mastery of elements if they have cold resistance), maximized disintegrate, silver fire, etc.; otherwise, if outmatched or severely hurt, greater teleport, teleport, or worldwalk to safety.

If you want to win initiative, shapechange into a dire tortoise (sandstorm), they automatically win initiative. Celerity doesn't quite work, since you can't use immediate actions when flat-footed.

[Telonius]

He is protected by every possible spells from 5th to 9th..


I just want to be totally clear on this point, because it's an extremely important one. You mean protected BY, not protected FROM, correct? Meaning, "he has all possible beneficial spells from levels 5-9 cast on himself at all times;" not meaning "it is impossible to cast any spell from level 5-9 at the lich." Right?

[mucco]

Celerity works once you use Foresight.

One easy way to put the Wiz in a bad situation would be Celerity -> Time Stop -> Antimagic Field -> move next to lich. Then (the hard part) the Barb should grapple the guy before it gets to act. However, since the Wiz is in AMF when he rolls init, he will just have his Dex to account for (and possibly the feat). The Barb has many ways to boost his init much higher.

[Quirp]

He is a lich and you have a cleric. Being a npc means he doesn´t have that many HD, so you could just turn/destroy him. There are items and spells that might help with that (in libris mortis and complete champion I think).

Edit: You could also look into the Book of Exalted Deeds. It has a fourth level spell for wizards and clerics named Celestial Brilliance that lasts for days per level (you should have many active at once). The spell deals 1d6 damage per round to all undead in a radius with no save or SR.

[Reaver225]

As mentioned earlier, Ray deflection is a level 4 sor/wiz that gives 1 min/level protection from rays.

So yeah. Contingency that and you're good against the antimagic ray.

Dimension door for the forcecage.

Alternately, find some way of spotting the bastard before he pops in on you.

[vampire2948]

The Wizard doesn't always have his buffs up. Find him when he's been out burning spell slots for a day, then kill him?

Have you destroyed his phylactery yet?

[Ernir]

Than one more question?

How can I defeat him in one stroke :smallcool:

He is LICH / RED WIZARD / SHADOW ADEPT protected by every spell from 9 to 5 level. Nearly half of his spell are used for protections and immunuties also have "3" rings of counterspell for greater dispel magic and teleports after our first attack :smallfurious:

We are party of 5 characters. Cleric + Druid + Wizard + Rogue + Barbarian :smallwink:
If you have a whole round, that lich is in some bad shape.

Wizard casts Disjunction (preferably from a scroll to reduce the save DC). That impregnable array of buffs? It is now GONE, no save (except for immediate-action counters and contingencies and such, but you haven't mentioned those).

Cleric moves up to him (oh, yeah, better plan the environment well) and casts Dimensional Lock. Or Dimensional Anchor if you think you can land the touch attack/get through SR once he's unbuffed. Or both, if you have Quicken spell.

The remaining characters can ready actions to keep him in place and interrupt his spellcasting. This is the hard part.

Alternatively, you can try to one-round him with plain old damage once his defenses are down after the Disjunction.

[Eldariel]

"FAMILIARTY FOR SUMMON magics & ALTERNATE FORMS etc WE MUST CHECK FAMILIARTY dc 10 + hd, and must meet in PERSON :smallsmile:"

To summon a SOLAR I must beat FAMILIARTY VS 33 :(

Should be auto success; 21 Knowledge + 10 Int + any generic bonus (Ioun Stone, spell, Luckstone, whatever - or just higher Int).


The worst part is "our party have only 1 round -shot- to kill him :(

Dimensional Lock + Disjunction sounds like a nice start. He'll save for all his items but it'll remove his magical protections. Trace his Teleport and chase; could help also. If he Teleports in, Anticipate Teleport to nab him in a temporal void for a couple of turns and prepare.

You definitely want to Dispel his buffs before you try to kill him. I wager he'll be immortal before you do. Cast Chain Greater Dispel Magic on all his items; don't target him before last so his Rings and such are suppressed before the spell hits him.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Your character and/or the Cleric can cast your own Antimagic Fields and get close to him, which will shut down all his buffs and items and keep him from casting anything. The Druid's pet and/or the Barbarian should run over and grapple him, the lich's negative energy/paralyzing touch is supernatural and won't work in an AMF. Just beat him down after that, it shouldn't be too difficult.

[jguy]

You could cast Wish or Miracle and have it be "I want all of his magic and magical gear suppressed for 10 minutes" or if you want to be mean "I want all his magical buffs and gear to be transferred onto me." The second one has the added benefit of giving you his spell component bag and all those nifty counterspell rings. I don't think there is anyway to counter a Wish or Miracle spell outside of divine intervention.

[Silva Stormrage]

You could cast Wish or Miracle and have it be "I want all of his magic and magical gear suppressed for 10 minutes" or if you want to be mean "I want all his magical buffs and gear to be transferred onto me." The second one has the added benefit of giving you his spell component bag and all those nifty counterspell rings. I don't think there is anyway to counter a Wish or Miracle spell outside of divine intervention.

Except the DM is VERY unlikely to let that slide. And since he needs to approve wishes/miracles not specified...

Glass strike is a good save or die to use on undead because it targets fort and works on Undead and Constructs. Its in the spell compendium.

[DeAnno]

Have the Cleric cast Battlemagic Perception beforehand (Heroes of Battle) and the Wizard cast Disjunction on the Lich. The Lich may attempt to counterspell the disjunction somehow, but if he does have the Cleric counterspell his counterspell with Battlemagic Perception.

MJD lands, buffs all gone, Barbarian charges, wizard dead.

[jguy]

Well it is a logical Wish/Miracle completely within the power of the spell. If the DM says "no, that doesn't work" it is because they don't want the Lich to be beaten since it should work. What about saying "I Wish/Miracle all of the Lich's gear to be transported 100 feet to the left of him(or 'It' if he is nitpicky about language) while the lich remains in the same spot". It mimics the low level spells Benign/Baleful Transposition so it is not without precedent.

[Flickerdart]

Contingent (when I see the enemy Wizard) Celerity, cast Time Stop that's Maximized using a Metamagic Rod, eat the daze, cast four Gates to call in Solars. Accounting for the failed familiarity check, you'll call in two or three. Get all of them to Wish or Limited Wish up something mean on the Wizard (-7 to saves against your spells will help) while you Chain Greater Dispel. If you're feeling super nasty, go Quickened Shatter afterwards, to wipe out his suite of magic items after they've been dispelled.

[Ernir]

Well it is a logical Wish/Miracle completely within the power of the spell. If the DM says "no, that doesn't work" it is because they don't want the Lich to be beaten since it should work. What about saying "I Wish/Miracle all of the Lich's gear to be transported 100 feet to the left of him(or 'It' if he is nitpicky about language) while the lich remains in the same spot". It mimics the low level spells Benign/Baleful Transposition so it is not without precedent.
No, it doesn't mimic the lower level spells. If it were mimicking those spells, you could accomplish it with those spells. You can't.

This use is definitely outside of the parameters of both Wish and Miracle. This does not mean it can't work (since the spells have no strictly defined upper bounds to their power), but it does mean it is always up to the whim of the DM. The spells aren't all-powerful.

[Flickerdart]

This use is definitely outside of the parameters of both Wish and Miracle. This does not mean it can't work (since the spells have no strictly defined upper bounds to their power), but it does mean it is always up to the whim of the DM. The spells aren't all-powerful.
Wish already has the power to teleport a target - having his items not follow him isn't much of a stretch. :smalltongue: There is a will save associated with the effect, so stacking Limited Wish and Mind Fog before firing it would help.

Edit: Oh, and make sure to prepare his favourite spells - a spell countered with itself doesn't allow a CL check. If you've readied your actions to counter his spells, you can still use your Solars and Quickened spells to harass him along with your party members.

[faceroll]

Getting next to him and making an anti-magic field seems like the best bet. Just hope he doesn't have a very nasty familiar.


Depends on the exact situation. An individual PC would find it difficult to get out of a small Wall of Force set up to trap somebody, but Antimagic Field only has a 10-foot radius and the Wizard would have to be parked right next to the Wall in order to really keep him there. The rest of the group would be free to murder the Wizard, who also can't cast spells (unless he has Mastery of Shaping or some similar way to carve out a hole in the spell). If the wizard catches more than one person in the Wall, the trapped area is too big for him to completely cover.

If he's just using the wall to block an entryway, the Earth Glide method works perfectly well to get one person through.

If you read the OP, the wizard's not in an AMF, but has had an anti-magic affect cast on him.


To derail a little, he uses spell compendium, and completely ignores spells like elminster's evasion or effulgent epuration?:smallamused: I mean, sure, he can use the antimagic+forcecage combo to shut down one of your PCs, but what are the other 4 doing? It is a five-on-one gangbang, the DM doesn't seem to be going out of his way to break up the party, so you all should still have the advantage in terms of action economy.

The wizard is using time stop, probably maximized. He's shutting down one PC a round, and he starts with 4 free rounds.


Should be auto success; 21 Knowledge + 10 Int + any generic bonus (Ioun Stone, spell, Luckstone, whatever - or just higher Int).

It's a "familiarity check", not a knowledge roll. I suspect the mechanics may be different, and that it's more like a straight ability roll than a trained skill


Well it is a logical Wish/Miracle completely within the power of the spell. If the DM says "no, that doesn't work" it is because they don't want the Lich to be beaten since it should work. What about saying "I Wish/Miracle all of the Lich's gear to be transported 100 feet to the left of him(or 'It' if he is nitpicky about language) while the lich remains in the same spot". It mimics the low level spells Benign/Baleful Transposition so it is not without precedent.

Casting a spell that allows a will save vs. an epic lich seems like a bad idea.


Wish already has the power to teleport a target - having his items not follow him isn't much of a stretch. :smalltongue: There is a will save associated with the effect, so stacking Limited Wish and Mind Fog before firing it would help.

Mind Fog doesn't work against undead, and against level 15+ casters, using mind-affecting spells probably is a waste of time.

[Urpriest]

The OP did mention that the familiarity check also requires having met the being in person, unless I'm very much mistaken. Which is silly, since if you've met the guy, what's the check for? But anyway, this rather limits his ability to gate Solars.

[Zerter]

Well it is a logical Wish/Miracle completely within the power of the spell.

No, it is not. What you can do for sure with wish is limited and going outside of that means you accept the results. You try to make it sound like the DM is screwing you over when you're obviously not playing in the spirit of the game.

Anyway, the answer to beating the munchkin Lich with nonsense defenses has been given already. Optimize your party Cleric to destroy Undead (Sun Domain is your friend), problem solved. It should'nt be too hard to destroy him even if the Cleric rolls pure 1's.

[faceroll]

The OP did mention that the familiarity check also requires having met the being in person, unless I'm very much mistaken. Which is silly, since if you've met the guy, what's the check for? But anyway, this rather limits his ability to gate Solars.

I think the check was to see IF you were familiar with Solar (back story, etc); if you had met the Solar otherwise, no need for a check.

[edit]
Oh, nevermind, that's an "and".
My house rule for Calling spells- Called creatures MUST be willing, unless you have their true name. How do you get their true name? DM fiat. Solves so many problems.

[dkist]

The Wizard doesn't always have his buffs up. Find him when he's been out burning spell slots for a day, then kill him?

Have you destroyed his phylactery yet?

no :smallsigh:


Getting next to him and making an anti-magic field seems like the best bet. Just hope he doesn't have a very nasty familiar.



If you read the OP, the wizard's not in an AMF, but has had an anti-magic affect cast on him.



The wizard is using time stop, probably maximized. He's shutting down one PC a round, and he starts with 4 free rounds.

Minimum "2"

It's a "familiarity check", not a knowledge roll. I suspect the mechanics may be different, and that it's more like a straight ability roll than a trained skill

Special skill only avaible to DRUIDS or CC to spellcasters

Casting a spell that allows a will save vs. an epic lich seems like a bad idea.



Mind Fog doesn't work against undead, and against level 15+ casters, using mind-affecting spells probably is a waste of time.


His saves are minimum +25 thanks to free empowered Protection from Spells and 52 SR thanks to LIMITED wish.


Orb magic is inefective cause of immunue to elements. CHAIN dispel (to destroy the protections) and GREATER SPELL IMMUNITY (for antimagic ray) and Reciporcal Gyre! may work this weekend I have to try :smalltongue:

[Runestar]

Protection from spells cannot be empowered, nor so I see how limited wish can possibly grant such an immense benefit (which amounts to virtual spell immunity).

[Eldariel]

Protection from spells cannot be empowered, nor so I see how limited wish can possibly grant such an immense benefit (which amounts to virtual spell immunity).

Mimic the Spell Resistance-spell; he gets Caster Level 40 from Circle Magic.

[deuxhero]

How is he as CR or ECL 20 Lich with 9th level spells?

[faceroll]

Using limited wish and embrace/shun the dark chaos, your wizard can, at the cost of xp, change the party's feats/skills.

Use limited wish to mimic psychic reformation, retrain a bunch of skills into CC "familiarity skill", change your 3rd level feat to item familiar, invest skill ranks, put bonuses to familiarity skill. With a handful of other bumps to skill checks, you should easily be able to get +20 to the familiarity roll.

Gate in a Titan. Have that Titan Gate a Titan. You should be able to accumulate over 9000 Titans on your turn. I'm not sure if that does anything for you, but it is ridiculous.

Anyway, pick up the metamagic feat Searing Spell from Sandstorm. It will allow your orbs of fire to overcome fire immunity/resistance.

[Acanous]

Alternitavely, walk around Plane Shifted in the Astral Plane, while your party and a projected image of yourself walk around on the material. There's a metamagic feat that allows your spells to hit things on adjacent planes, though the name currently escapes me. It bypasses AMF AND forcecage.

Not an instant win by a long shot, but it does force him to blow a time stop, AMF and a force cage to no effect for the cost of one 7th level spell.

This will only work the FIRST time you do it, so plan your counterattack thoroughly.

[Eldariel]

How is he as CR or ECL 20 Lich with 9th level spells?

Lich is CR+2.


Alternitavely, walk around Plane Shifted in the Astral Plane, while your party and a projected image of yourself walk around on the material. There's a metamagic feat that allows your spells to hit things on adjacent planes, though the name currently escapes me. It bypasses AMF AND forcecage.

Transdimensional Spell does not do that.

"A transdimensional spell has its full normal
effect on incorporeal creatures, creatures on the Ethereal
Plane or the Plane of Shadow, and creatures within an
extradimensional space in the spell’s area. Such creatures
include ethereal creatures, creatures that are blinking or
shadow walking, manifested ghosts, and creatures within the
extradimensional space of a rope trick, portable hole, or familiar
pocket (see page 106)."

That's all it does. Good for nuking Ethereal and the Plane of Shadow but that's about it.

[dkist]

chaın dispel (to destroy the protections)

+

greater spell ımmunıty (for antimagic ray)

+

reciporcal gyre (for 25d12 damage but can be saved!)

+

searing spell (for damage :smallredface: )

+

any one to add someting ;)

[faceroll]

chaın dispel (to destroy the protections)

Unfortunately, even a natural 20 with a caster level of 20 on a greater dispel won't be doing anything to the liches buffs, as his CL is >40.

[ILM]

Seriously, Disjunction was mentioned last page. Why are we still talking about buffs?

[Eldariel]

Unfortunately, even a natural 20 with a caster level of 20 on a greater dispel won't be doing anything to the liches buffs, as his CL is >40.

Now, if we are talking a Master Abjurer with Inquisition, Elven Spell Lore, Spellcaster's Bane & Soul Casting on the other hand... Of course, few people probably have one handy.

[Whammydill]

The spell Deflect Ray (or is it Ray Deflection) from the spell compendium should work against that anti-magic ray.

[Runestar]

Now, if we are talking a Master Abjurer with Inquisition, Elven Spell Lore, Spellcaster's Bane & Soul Casting on the other hand... Of course, few people probably have one handy.

Doesn't dispel magic have a caster lv cap? So it doesn't really matter how high you can crank your caster lv.

I always found it funny how the epic lv handbook gives cr40+ monsters greater dispel magic as a SLA (which caps at +20, and thus would have zero effect vs lv40 npcs). :smallsigh:

[Eldariel]

Doesn't dispel magic have a caster lv cap? So it doesn't really matter how high you can crank your caster lv.

It does. That's why I mentioned like +15 worth of various typed bonuses to Dispel-checks instead :smallwink:

[Runestar]

It does. That's why I mentioned like +15 worth of various typed bonuses to Dispel-checks instead :smallwink:

Oh, so they don't count towards that cap?

Well, I learn something new everyday then, as I am not very familiar with those abilities you listed.

[Eldariel]

Oh, so they don't count towards that cap?

Well, I learn something new everyday then, as I am not very familiar with those abilities you listed.

The cap is for caster level; none of those influence your CL. All of those are various typed bonuses to Dispel check;
Master Abjurer's Minor Esoterica is eventual +5 Competence
Inquisition Domain Granted Power is +4 Untyped
Elven Spell Lore is +2 Untyped
Spellcaster's Bane is +2 Insight
Soultouched Spellcasting is Insight too...hm. Well, guess you gotta skip it or Spellcaster's Bane then and find some other source for a couple more points.

CL 40 is pretty hard to beat, of course, but not really impossible (especially if taking 20 on the Dispel-check somehow; Surge of Fortune can at least).

[dkist]

so? we still have no %100 way to beat him in one round?:smallannoyed:

btw YESTARDAY I find our DM notes.

CR:22
NAME: DARKEN RAHL
UNDEAD (MULAN) FROM THAY
NECROMANCER 6 / RED WIZARD 10 / ARCHMAGE 3 / SHADOW ADEPT 1

complete CHEAT :)

[charcoalninja]

so? we still have no %100 way to beat him in one round?:smallannoyed:

btw YESTARDAY I find our DM notes.

CR:22
NAME: DARKEN RAHL
UNDEAD (MULAN) FROM THAY
NECROMANCER 6 / RED WIZARD 10 / ARCHMAGE 3 / SHADOW ADEPT 1

complete CHEAT :)

Disjunction - goodbye buffs.
Chain Greater Dispel Magic - goodbye Items
Barbarian + Druid Charge - Goodbye Lich.

[faceroll]

Can you win initiative with Foresight & Greater Celerity, get next to him, and put him in an AMF? Have a Contingencied teleport cast on yourself, with the condition "teleport me to the lich" spoken by you that triggers the contigency. Immediate action- cast greater celerity. Speak "teleport me to the lich"; you are adjacent to said lich. Standard action- cast anti-magic field. If the lich is also using celerity and foresight, you two will have to roll initiative. Hopefull you win. :smallfrown:

Before this, you need to acquire yourself a good grappler. I recommend an elephant. Here's how to get yourself an elephant.

Use limited wish to mimic psychic reformation (XPH) and swap
out one of your feats for Wild Cohort (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870010/The_Familiars_Handbook_--_2007) and to put as many cross-class ranks into handle animal as you can. You should probably also trade out some feats for improved initiative and a regional feat that gives you +2 to init. You can get an animal companion as a 15th level druid. Get the elephant, for the +26 grapple. Use psychic reformation on the elephant to retrain some of its feats. You want your elephant to have combat reflexes, improved initiative, improved grapple, and martial study: thicket of blades (5-foot steps provoke attacks of opportunity, from ToB). It can now make attacks of opportunity when it is flat footed. If you're going to be indoors, use a baleful polymorph spell to turn your elephant into a mouse or something. The AMF will supress that effect and turn him back into an elephant. Buy some full plate barding for your elephant.

So here is how combat goes down:
Surprise Round
Lich can't surprise you, thanks to your Foresight. You cast Greater Celerity, you have a turn before the lich. Speak "teleport me to the lich". Teleport goes off, taking you and your pet elephant to be adjacent to the lich. You use your standard action to put up anti-magic field, and your move action to handle animal your elephant to grapple the lich. If the lich is flying, you all fall together. No big deal; actually it's even better for you, because the lich has to use a move action to get up and your elephant still threatens even if it's prone.

Everyone rolls initiative. Hopefully at least one of you goes before the lich. If one of you goes before the lich, just grapple the **** out of him (use psychic reformation to give everyone in the party improved grapple). If not, the lich's only option is to spend its turn withdrawing from you, otherwise he's going to get pimp-handed by an elephant.

The lich retreats from combat; it can only move 30 feet from you, and he'll have a swift action left. Which is a bummer, cause he can use celerity and you're going to be dazed in an AMF.

So don't lost initiative. Make your DM roll in the open.

[Runestar]

Note that shadow adept 1 grants tenacious magic, which raises the dispel check to 15+caster lv.

Not that it matters with disjunction, though you may still have to contend with his ring of counterspells.

[Quietus]

so? we still have no %100 way to beat him in one round?:smallannoyed:

btw YESTARDAY I find our DM notes.

CR:22
NAME: DARKEN RAHL
UNDEAD (MULAN) FROM THAY
NECROMANCER 6 / RED WIZARD 10 / ARCHMAGE 3 / SHADOW ADEPT 1

complete CHEAT :)

First, you can't accuse someone of cheating if you're looking at his notes. Not without being a hypocrite.

Second, the solution is obvious.

1) Memorize the Book of Counted Shadows
2) Fall in love with the last living Confessor
3) Troll him hard!
4) ???
5) Profit!

[Eldariel]

so? we still have no %100 way to beat him in one round?:smallannoyed:

There is no reliable way of beating a Wizard 20 in one round; one of the powers of the class. Time Stop -> AMF+space-locking him with someone to beat up on him when the Time Stop ends would work. Walls of Force subsist in AMF so AMF + Walls of Force with proper positioning could work but the problem is getting the Time Stop off; I'm fairly sure there are some contingencies in place, or some defenses for the AMF.

[dkist]

I am going to see the results in Sunday 2-3 pm :) coming to kick your ass RAHL :smallmad:

[faceroll]

What's the one feat that lets you cast in an AMF? Get that feat.

But yeah, if you're using contingencies and celerities, the lich's got those, too. It's going to be very hard, I imagine. Luckily, you have a party. Getting him in an AMF should be top priority, because I'm pretty sure the feat that lets you cast in an AMF is restricted to followers of Mystra (and Mystra doesn't like shadow weave users, AFAIK).

[Boci]

What's the one feat that lets you cast in an AMF? Get that feat.

But yeah, if you're using contingencies and celerities, the lich's got those, too. It's going to be very hard, I imagine. Luckily, you have a party. Getting him in an AMF should be top priority, because I'm pretty sure the feat that lets you cast in an AMF is restricted to followers of Mystra (and Mystra doesn't like shadow weave users, AFAIK).

Initaite of Mystra, but its very rarely allowed in game. A scroll of invoke magic will probably be more likely allowed, but that will eat up a swift action an only allows a 4th level spell.

[dkist]

If I failed this match again I am going to build ultimate MAGUS for next one :)

Which one will be the most powerful one?

MASTER SPECIALIST + INITIATE OF MYSTRA

or

INCANTATRIX "METAMAGIC BOOST"

OR

or

???

[Boci]

If I failed this match again I am going to build ultimate MAGUS for next one :)

Which one will be the most powerful one?

MASTER SPECIALIST

or

INCANTATRIX "METAMAGIC BOOST"

OR

RED WIZARD

or

???

Incantatrix. Even if you're using the weaker MoF version, especially if use the PGtF.

[Eldariel]

Dweomerkeeper Initiate of Mystra with Tainted Scholar would win out. Though fitting Scholar onto an Initiate would be kinda problematic.

[dkist]

Anyone have better WIZARD build :smallcool: please reply till friday :smallsmile: