Pick Pocketing

[hobbitkniver]

So I have reason to believe we will be having a player who wants to be a rogue who gets into all kinds of trouble and steals from his team mates. So I'm looking for ways to defend against this. First of all, what makes the DC for his sleight of hand check against a player? I'm a cleric and our wizard is 100% trustable, are there any spells worth noting? What can a fellow rogue do to help? Are there any items mundane or magic that can help? I know theres some money belt or something I've seen before. What traps can I make to potentially screw him over for trying? What can I do to limit my vulnerability while sleeping? I am a human, so no help there.

[Rogue Shadows]

So I have reason to believe we will be having a player who wants to be a rogue who gets into all kinds of trouble and steals from his team mates. So I'm looking for ways to defend against this. First of all, what makes the DC for his sleight of hand check against a player? I'm a cleric and our wizard is 100% trustable, are there any spells worth noting? What can a fellow rogue do to help? Are there any items mundane or magic that can help? I know theres some money belt or something I've seen before. What traps can I make to potentially screw him over for trying? What can I do to limit my vulnerability while sleeping? I am a human, so no help there.

Picking a pocket is a DC 20 Sleight of Hand check, but the victim can make a Spot check agains the Sleight of Hand check result to notice the attempt.

So basically, get a good Spot check.

[Amnestic]

Trap your stuff so that anyone without a specific arcane mark (ask your 100% trustable Wizard!) fiddling with it suffers a nasty surprise.

[ericgrau]

Actually it's easier to tie down and close everything you can. Short of an epic check you can't pick-pocket large things like weapons, wands, etc. Get a backup spell component pouch, put most of your money and potions in your backpack, etc. and you should be fine. Just a few gp, potions and other small pouched and pocketed items to worry about. If you get a handy haversack you don't even have to worry about those.

Sleight of hand is more for discreetly obtaining and/or concealing small plot objects. You either need to ignore the rules to do more or prepare to be dissapointed. You can get peoples' coins while they have them out for shopping, get something that was set on a table, smuggle a tiny item in your clothing, etc. But anyone preparing for it specifically can put their stuff away and there's nothing that can be done about it.

[Amnestic]

Get a backup spell component pouch,

OP's the Cleric, not the Wizard. In this case it'd be a matter of securing ones holy symbol. In which case...apply it to everything. Armour, weapon, shield (if you have one), skin, maybe even bones.

[The Gilded Duke]

Murder him and then raise him as undead. If he causes any further problems just rebuke him. Works quite well if you make him into some kind of undead with a glaring vulnerability that they need your help to overcome.

[holywhippet]

Explosive runes on the inside of your backpack each night before you go to sleep. Make sure you hide anything valuable somewhere else.

[NNescio]

Mark of Justice, Bestow Curse*, Geas...

...With an ultimatum of kicking the rogue out of the party if he doesn't consent to those spells.

Metagaming-wise, it's a somewhat nasty thing to do to your fellow players, but if pickpocketing teammates is kosher then this should be as well. And really, if you worded the spells right, he wouldn't suffer any penalties as long as he doesn't target party members.

(*Arrange for the curse to only apply when he pickpockets from party members.)

[holywhippet]

BTW, have the wizard's familiar keep an eye on him at night. If he steals something the familiar can let the wizard know.

[Fitz10019]

Beg the DM to add "Restitute" to the options of the Command spell.
Then prep, cast, repeat daily.

[Worira]

Wait for him to steal something from you, then search his possessions for it. When you find it, cut off his fingers.

[hewhosaysfish]

Tell him, before the start of play, that you don't enjoy the sort of bull that such PvP usually degenerates into. Ask him nicely not to start it.

If he says something like "But it's what my character would do!", "But I'm Chaotic!", "You can't metagame like that!" or (my personal favourite) "That's what a Thief does: steal things" then patiently explain that his reasons for doing so won't cause you to enjoy the outcome anymore. Again, ask him nicely not to start it.

If he can't accept this (but you, for some reason, still feel it necessary to play in the game with him), I would recommend you and the wizard just turn round and kill his character outside the entrance to the first dungeon and help yourself to his starting gear.

Be certain that before he can begin to voice any objection to you sudden "betrayal", be sure that both of you start reciting "But it's what my character would do!", "But I'm Lawful/Chaotic/Good/Evil!", "You can't metagame like that!" or (my personal favourite) "That's what a Wizard/Cleric does: bludgeons/fireballs things"

[Fouredged Sword]

The Alarm spell around everyone BUT the thief every night.

At even the suggestion that he has stolen something have the wizard dominate him.

Remember that fell drain sonic snap will hurt, but not kill him if you hit him his level-1 times and grant him a massive penelty on his saves vs dominate, and rogues don't have good willsaves to begin with.

[opticalshadow]

baleful polymorph, turn him into a turtle for a little while, tell him if he does it again, he can enjoy being a turtle forever.

[HunterOfJello]

Instead of being the tyrant DM, let the players solve their own problems. Deal with the situation using flash cards or pieces of paper that the other players can't see.

If the pickpocketer steals stuff, remove those items from the other player's character sheets after the session and if they try to use those items during the session tell them, "you open your backpack, but cannot find your _______ that you're sure you left in there."

Eventually, this will lead to a conflict that you should force the players to deal with in-game instead of out-of-game. The angry PCs will end up forcing the pickpocketer to only steal for their team and not steal from the team, keep a closer eye on the sneaky bugger, and set up a better system for dealing with problems OR they'll just kill that character and your friend can roll a new one up.
~

Dealing with the problem out of game will just lead to less roleplaying and less fun for you and the players.

[opticalshadow]

Instead of being the tyrant DM, let the players solve their own problems. Deal with the situation using flash cards or pieces of paper that the other players can't see.

If the pickpocketer steals stuff, remove those items from the other player's character sheets after the session and if they try to use those items during the session tell them, "you open your backpack, but cannot find your _______ that you're sure you left in there."

Eventually, this will lead to a conflict that you should force the players to deal with in-game instead of out-of-game. The angry PCs will end up forcing the pickpocketer to only steal for their team and not steal from the team, keep a closer eye on the sneaky bugger, and set up a better system for dealing with problems OR they'll just kill that character and your friend can roll a new one up.
~

Dealing with the problem out of game will just lead to less roleplaying and less fun for you and the players.

from the op, it doesnt sound like they have a problem with him doing it, so much as hes asking for advice on how to make himself safer from being the victem.

in either case, letting the problem brew ingame can have jsut as bad results as talking out of game.

[Person_Man]

As a DM, I personally do not allow PvP conflict of any kind, unless the players specifically ask for an arena or similar scenerio. It just breeds way too many problems.

[big teej]

I'm sure there's an update in complete scouldrel, but given that I don't have that yet\

I'd like to suggest the thief-catcher book from Song and Silence.

this is basically a book that sucks a thief's soul and body into it.... forever

[Allanimal]

Fire trap spell. Doesn't do much damage, but makes a point.

[PersonMan]

Instead of being the tyrant DM

I don't think he can do that if he's a player. Which, you know, he is. A cleric, to be precise.

[Elboxo]

Get immovable rods and sleep in the air with a tarpaulin between the rods, like a hammock. Also cast alarm on the hammock without telling him. Phantom trap on packs with items in them. If you think he steals something dominate person and get him to give it back, then get him to be caught by town guards or something and imprisoned for a few days ( preferably with tomatoes being thrown at him ), time the dominate right so that it just runs out as he is in jail. Or tell him to stand naked outside the mayor/king's house and write on himself in red 'Redrum'
You know, be creative.

[kabreras]

If i was the others players :

If the cleric pick him doing that...
==> Mark of justice so he doesnt do it anymore to the group

If he steal some stuff to the wizard... there might be some explosive runes on some coins in that purse... or on that book... or...
As a cleaver wizard i always have some traped coins or scraps of papers, you never know when that can be handly and its for sure good to use in the differents inns we get in... not about a player trying to steal, but the MD can try to steal also...
Hard to be discret when something blow you on the face :smalltongue:

[Gavinfoxx]

Hoard Gullet?

[Magesmiley]

So... having run a character of this sort of life view not too long ago, I'll offer up a few of my thoughts:

The possessions of the party members aren't the easiest (nor usually the best) targets for theft. They also tend to really anger the other players a lot. Smart thieves won't go after those. A much bigger source of theft IMO is the treasure that the party gains. If you don't know that the loot even exists, it is really hard to make a case that he stole it.

Sleight of hand is great for palming gems, jewelry, potions and other small items in a horde of coins or from a fallen foe. Watch the character closely if he is doing anything where they might be treasure that should go to the group.

Furthermore, seriously assess whether there are other characters in your group that might help him with his thieving ways (by providing distractions, etc.) in trade for a cut of his ill-gotten gains. This can and does work. Likewise if only one other person catches him, he might bribe his way clear.

And... there are other ways besides sleight of hand to scam the party.

As an example: we had a large group of 9 characters. I was doing the negotiations for a job we were doing. The NPC offered us 500 gp each to do the job. I responded with "so 5000 gp as a reward?", to which he agreed to. We did the job, collected our pay, and I promptly gave everyone 500 gp each. I ended up having to bribe one of the other characters (who evidently could do basic math) with an extra 100 gp, but still came out with nearly a double share of the reward.

A second way is if the thief is the one keeping track of the loot that hasn't been split up amongst the party. I've not actually done this, but a couple of obvious places to embezzle include not mentioning items that were found or math "errors" in determining what the value of a share is (and pocketing the excess).

Anyways, these are couple of places that I came up with. I usually run a good character, so this was a bit of an interesting and eye-opening experience for me.