Making my first crusader. Suggestions?

[Mclane]

I'm making a level 1 crusader for my campaign. All I know is that I want heavy armor, a maul, and a dwarf. Any build or book suggestions?

[Big Fau]

An obligatory link to the Crusader's Handbook. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4227.0)

And another one for the Field Manual. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11534.0)

[gorfnab]

You should find some suggestions in the Crusader Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181655).

Edit: This is a different handbook than the one posted by Big Fau.

[Keld Denar]

Well, as a Crusader1, you don't have a WHOLE lot of options as far as maneuvers known goes. You know 5, out of a possibility of 6. So...options...limited..yea...

Anyway, Stone Poweh and Extra Granted Maneuver are both very excellent feats at level 1. Stone Powah makes you very tanky, and synergizes well with your Furious Counterstrike ability, and with stuff like Stone Bones and Crusader Strike to make sure that you don't take any REAL damage at all. Unfortunately, Stone Power doesn't scale very well, given that its capped out at a max of -5 penalty. Extra Granted Manuever allows you to cycle through your manuvers granted an extra turn earlier. That means at 1st level, you'll reshuffle every 3rd round, rather than every 4th. That can be nice for keeping your survival maneuvers in hand at nearly all times. Especially when you start getting counters and your 1 boost (WRT), its nice to turn them over a bit more frequently.

The rest, as you've figured out, is pretty simple. What ELSE do you want your Crusader to do? Do you just want to be tanky? Do you want to exercise control (area denial via Thicket of Blades + Trip/Standstill). Straight Crusader is fine, but 1-2 Warblade dips are also decent for keeping maneuvers on hand. You have LOTS of options, so...yea.

Best would be for you to just throw out some ideas of what you want to do, and we'll help you by critiquing them. Otherwise there are SO many possibilities that we'd fill up the whole forum before we cover most of them! :smallcool:

[Yorrin]

Ah Crusader. My favorite non-caster these days.

When I build them I favor the Devoted Spirit maneuvers that heal you when you hit with them. Combine with Martial Spirit stance and you've got one of the most survivable builds at low levels. Devoted Spirit in general gets some of the best stances in the book, so I'd always try to pick them here if possible.

People on these boards tend to not like Stone Dragon, but you could do worse than the _X_ Mountain Hammer maneuvers, which add a bunch of damage and ignore DR and such. And of course since you're a Dwarf you can always aim for Deepstone Sentinel, which is both fun and flavorful.

White Raven, of course, has all those wonderful charging maneuvers, and a few nice things like White Raven Strike and White Raven Hammer and such. I pick a good number of my maneuvers here.

Try to find a way to pick up some DR or fast-healing if you want to soak up ridiculous amounts of damage. Stone Power is also an interesting choice for tanking. If you seem to have no problems hitting, I'd pick it up.

Oh yeah, as Keld said, Extra Granted Maneuver is your 1st level feat. No questions asked.

[Big Fau]

Just to note: Keld's got a very good point about your maneuvers known. You should either take both Leading the Attack and Vanguard's Strike, or take only one of those two and grab Douse the Flames. Whichever option you pick is based on your party (lots of tanks? Use the former. Lots of casters? Use the latter).

[Mclane]

I want my guy to be able to absorb attacks and damage as well as possible. I aslo want to be able to get enemies killed faster, so, I was planning on stone bones, crusader's strike, vanguard strike, douse the flames and leading the attack for maneuvers, and martial spirit for my stance. I don't know how many tanks will be in the party yet. One guy says he's making a warforged fighter. I know that.

[Yorrin]

Given equal levels of optimization you're going to be out-tanking anything short of CoDzilla. Besides, chances are that guy's going for a Warforged Juggernaut, which is a charging DPS build. Which is actually great, since you can use your White Raven stuff to toss an occasional buff his way. (Actually, if he's not planning that, I'd say you should suggest it to him. The two of you would synergize quite well.)

If you've got access to MIC you could probably pick up one of those shirts that give DR 3/obscure metal when you can afford it. That way you won't have to bother about preparing Stone Bones once you've got access to better maneuvers.

[Big Fau]

I want my guy to be able to absorb attacks and damage as well as possible. I aslo want to be able to get enemies killed faster, so, I was planning on stone bones, crusader's strike, vanguard strike, douse the flames and leading the attack for maneuvers, and martial spirit for my stance. I don't know how many tanks will be in the party yet. One guy says he's making a warforged fighter. I know that.

You desperately need to know what your party's composition will be when making a Martial Adept. That influences your maneuver selection heavily.

The only thing more important than that is any information your DM provides about the campaign (if he has a preference for using a certain creature type against you, or if he likes making custom NPCs as enemies, or if he is running a premade module or not).

Your equipment selection is likewise influenced by your party and your DM's preferences (you wouldn't buy a Necklace of Fireballs when every one of your party members has the Cold subtype and your enemies cast Resist Energy frequently, for example).

Proper preparation can outweigh luck.

[Mclane]

I still have yet to find out all of the other classes that will be in the team, but I now know I'm gonna go with the Captain America build. Of at least, I'm gonna try. Any ideas what kind of feats to take? I know I have to take Extra Granted Maneuver, so any suggestions?

[Greenish]

If you want Cpt. America, you take Imp. Shield Bash, obviously. :smallcool:

Also, Person_Man's Guide to Shields (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123630).

[Mclane]

I feel stupid for admitting this but I did not know about that feat at all.:smalltongue: Makes sense though.

[navar100]

Extra Granted Maneuver feat is a big help. Better odds of getting a particular maneuver granted at start of combat is nice, but the winning factor is refreshing maneuvers every 3 rounds instead of 4. Over the course of the campaign and particularly tough combats, that is a big deal.

I favor Vital Recovery feat. At low levels it's like a free Potion of Cure Light Wounds once per encounter. At mid levels it's a free Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds. It's handy for when you need that last minute healing before Steely Resolve damage kicks in and/or you can't/don't want to use Crusader's/Revitalizing Strike.

Stone Power feat does synergize well with Steely Resolve, but you need to consider your maneuvers. If you aren't going to use a lot of Stone Dragon and/or intend to use Devoted Spirit/White Raven strike maneuvers a lot more often than regular attacks, you won't get much use out of it. Even when using Stone Dragon it becomes practically obsolete at high level play. If you are able to retrain feats, it's fine to take at low level then retrain it later.

You will notice you do not get a 3rd level stance until 8th level, a 5th or 6th level stance until 14th level, and no 8th level stance at all. You will either have to spend feats on Martial Stance or multiclass two levels before level 8. You'd still have to spend the feat for a 3rd level and/or 6th level stance.

Thicket of Blades is popular on these boards for a Lockdown build. At low level, Iron Guard's Glare is primo. Even at mid to high level it works well. My favorite stance is Aura of Perfect Order. Guarantee yourself a made save or hit your opponent with a strike.

Learn White Raven Tactics when you can. Just do.

Learn Order Forged From Chaos when you can. Just do.

Learn White Raven Hammer when you can. Just do.

[Big Fau]

I still have yet to find out all of the other classes that will be in the team, but I now know I'm gonna go with the Captain America build. Of at least, I'm gonna try. Any ideas what kind of feats to take? I know I have to take Extra Granted Maneuver, so any suggestions?

Sinfire Titan hasn't completed that build yet, but he said it was based on one of JaronK's builds, so I'll PM him for you.

[Mclane]

Okay. Thanks:smallsmile:

[JaronK]

Since I was asked to drop this here, here's my shield wielder builds... one of which is the Smitadin, a Crusader (mostly) who beats people up with shields and actually does a good job of it.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1532.0;wap2

I first made that just to prove that shield wielders could be good, but later gave that build to a friend for her to use in game... she absolutely loved it. So that's good.

JaronK

[Mclane]

Thanks :smallsmile:

[Dralnu]

Since I was asked to drop this here, here's my shield wielder builds... one of which is the Smitadin, a Crusader (mostly) who beats people up with shields and actually does a good job of it.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1532.0;wap2

I first made that just to prove that shield wielders could be good, but later gave that build to a friend for her to use in game... she absolutely loved it. So that's good.

JaronK

Allow me to add that I've played a toned down version of this and loved it too. I used the Ancestral Relic feat (BoED) on my shield so I could get the Ranged (MiC) enchantment asap and start throwing my shield around for coolness factor.

[Mclane]

Other than shield spikes, are there any ways to increase the damage for shield bashing? And any tips for non-charging shield bashing things? I'll probably be charging at later levels if I can do it safely, but we're still level one, so I'm gonna be struggling to get enough feats for other things right now.