Natural Attack Help

[Angeal976]

I wasn't sure how this would work since there are secondary and primary natural attacks. I made a character, who is a sorcerer, and has the dragonblood subtype feat. So I used a flaw to give him the draconic claw feat, which gives him a claw attack. Then I used another flaw to give him Dragon Tail feat, so he gains a tail and a tail attack, and finally he is a race that gives him a bite attack. So I have three natural attacks, but which ones are primary, and which ones are secondary? Or all the all primary? Or maybe they are all secondary?

[Greenish]

Which game, which edition?

I'll just guess either the claws or the bite are primary, the rest are secondary.

[Angeal976]

Which game, which edition?

I'll just guess either the claws or the bite are primary, the rest are secondary.

Oh, sorry, D&D 3.5.

[Amnestic]

The Draconic Tail feat notes that it's secondary, so your choice is between bite or claws. Claws doesn't say, and I don't know which race you are. I don't suppose it happens to say if it's primary or secondary?

[Angeal976]

The Draconic Tail feat notes that it's secondary, so your choice is between bite or claws. Claws doesn't say, and I don't know which race you are. I don't suppose it happens to say if it's primary or secondary?

I am a Norker, and it just says "natural attack: Bite (1D4)"

[Amnestic]

It's made with a -5 penalty in full attack from the Norker (Dragon 343) statblock, behind its club. I'm...no expert on natural attack by any means, but I'm pretty sure that means it's secondary. In which case your two claws would be primary.

[Greenish]

It's made with a -5 penalty in full attack from the Norker (Dragon 343) statblock, behind its club. I'm...no expert on natural attack by any means, but I'm pretty sure that means it's secondary. In which case your two claws would be primary.Everything is secondary when used with manufactured weapons. If it's their only natural weapon, it's probably primary, but I don't know how the claws work with that.

[Darrin]

I am a Norker, and it just says "natural attack: Bite (1D4)"

That would be your primary, since you started with it as a racial feature.

Adding the Draconic Claw feat also allows the two claws to be used as a primary attack (both at full BAB). The Rules Compendium states that all primary natural attacks can become secondary attacks if need be. So you have the choice to use either "bite +0/claw -5/claw -5" or "claw +0/claw +0/bite -5".


It's made with a -5 penalty in full attack from the Norker (Dragon 343) statblock, behind its club. I'm...no expert on natural attack by any means, but I'm pretty sure that means it's secondary. In which case your two claws would be primary.

It's only secondary if used along with a manufactured weapon. I believe the Norker stat block lists the bite as a primary attack if it's not attacking with a manufactured weapon.

[Keld Denar]

Yea, if it doesn't specify, you'd pretty much pick which you'd want to be primary and which you'd want to be secondary. There isn't a rule that says "all claws are primary", or "racial natural weapons are always primary vs other natural weapons aquired in other ways". There are actually VERY few rules for natural weapons period, so...yea.

As far as the stat block for the Norker goes, the bite will ALWAYS be secondary in the full attack stat block, since the bite is always acompanied by a manufactured weapon, and all natural weapons are automatically relegated to secondary status in the presence of a manufactured weapon.

[Angeal976]

Okay, thanks. I will make my claws my primary weapon then. What do I add to damage rolls with all these natural attacks? Half Str mod, Normal Str mod, or one and a half Str mod?

[Darrin]

As far as the stat block for the Norker goes, the bite will ALWAYS be secondary in the full attack stat block, since the bite is always acompanied by a manufactured weapon, and all natural weapons are automatically relegated to secondary status in the presence of a manufactured weapon.

I meant in the "Attack:" field, which lists what weapons the creature has available if it's only making a standard attack. It generally lists something like "Attack: bite +1 (1d4+1) or sword +1 (1d8+1)". If a natural weapon isn't listed in the "Attack:" field, then that might mean it's only available as a secondary attack.

Sometimes you can look at the Str bonus applied to the attack and determine if it's a primary that way. The primary attack is supposed to get +1.5 Str bonus, and all secondary attacks get +0.5 Str bonus, but I don't think the Monster Manuals are terribly consistent about that.

[Lyndworm]

Primary natural attacks are made with a x1 Str bonus, secondary x.5. Natural attacks are only x1.5 Str if there are no other weapons present, including other natural weapons.

[Angeal976]

I meant in the "Attack:" field, which lists what weapons the creature has available if it's only making a standard attack. It generally lists something like "Attack: bite +1 (1d4+1) or sword +1 (1d8+1)". If a natural weapon isn't listed in the "Attack:" field, then that might mean it's only available as a secondary attack.

Sometimes you can look at the Str bonus applied to the attack and determine if it's a primary that way. The primary attack is supposed to get +1.5 Str bonus, and all secondary attacks get +0.5 Str bonus, but I don't think the Monster Manuals are terribly consistent about that.

Yeah, and it doesn't say. So since claw is primary it does 1D4+4 (My Str mod is 3), and the tail and bite do 1D4+1, right?

[Keld Denar]

No. Your claws would be 1d3+3 and your secondary weapons (bite/tail) would be 1d4+1. Natural weapons only get 1.5x +Str when they are the only natural weapon, and then only in specific cases (some very rare exceptions exist, such as a dragon's tail attack). No claw attacks ever get 1.5x +Str.

[Angeal976]

No. Your claws would be 1d3+3 and your secondary weapons (bite/tail) would be 1d4+1. Natural weapons only get 1.5x +Str when they are the only natural weapon, and then only in specific cases (some very rare exceptions exist, such as a dragon's tail attack). No claw attacks ever get 1.5x +Str.

Oh, okay thanks.

[Angeal976]

No. Your claws would be 1d3+3 and your secondary weapons (bite/tail) would be 1d4+1. Natural weapons only get 1.5x +Str when they are the only natural weapon, and then only in specific cases (some very rare exceptions exist, such as a dragon's tail attack). No claw attacks ever get 1.5x +Str.

Oh, okay thanks.

[RagnaroksChosen]

I thought slams always got 1.5 str?

[Greenish]

I thought slams always got 1.5 str?They don't. For example, look at titan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/titan.htm) which has two slams.

[RagnaroksChosen]

They don't. For example, look at titan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/titan.htm) which has two slams.

Fair enough.