Magicus Mundus (Negima) vs Lunar Capital (Touhou)

[Prime32]

For whatever reason, the Lunar Capital has declared war on Magicus Mundus or vice versa. The former is capable of calling on the inhabitants of Gensokyo for aid if things get bad.

How do things turn out? What would a fight between Watatsuki no Yorihime and Jack Rakan look like?

[Soras Teva Gee]

What would a fight between Watatsuki no Yorihime and Jack Rakan look like?

Is there a particular reason why it won't turn out like every other time Jack fights a girl?

[Drascin]

For whatever reason, the Lunar Capital has declared war on Magicus Mundus or vice versa. The former is capable of calling on the inhabitants of Gensokyo for aid if things get bad.

Excepting Eientei, just why would most of the Gensokyans aid the Capital, though? Most of them aren't exactly fans of the whole "you are from Earth, that means you are filth and the universe would be better if you didn't exist" thing Lunarians have got going on, after all :smalltongue:.


Is there a particular reason why it won't turn out like every other time Jack fights a girl?

Probably the whole thing Watatsukis have with being nearly as narrative-warping towards the shaming of the opponent as I hear Rakan's antics are. Can't do a real estimation here, though, because my knowledge of Rakan is limited to what I've had spoiled of Negima (which is a fair bit but not a complete picture), since I haven't read it yet :smalltongue:.

[Prime32]

Is there a particular reason why it won't turn out like every other time Jack fights a girl?Yorihime defeats Sakuya, Marisa, Remilia and Reimu consecutively, without breaking a sweat, a few minutes after learning the spellcard rules. All of these are heavy hitters, and Reimu has nigh-impenetrable plot armour. Meanwhile Toyohime is a probability manipulator capable of vaporising a forest in an instant, and can redirect Yukari Yakumo's gaps. A lot of fans regard them as God Mode (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodModeSue) Villain Sues (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainSue).


Excepting Eientei, just why would most of the Gensokyans aid the Capital, though? Most of them aren't exactly fans of the whole "you are from Earth, that means you are filth and the universe would be better if you didn't exist" thing Lunarians have got going on, after all :smalltongue:.Hence "if things get bad". Because they'd never do it otherwise.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Hence "if things get bad". Because they'd never do it otherwise.

Not a Negima or Touhou fan beyond what I pick up from my friends, but given the premise you've provided, it sounds like most of the people in Gensokyo would ally with the Martians (the magical world is on Mars, right?), not the Mooninites. Especially given the first part of the quoted post.

Then again, that presumes the Touhou protagonist team to have the slightest bit of common sense and not just shoot at the first flying thing to cross their path that day, which is admittedly out of character.

[Mistral]

Not a Negima or Touhou fan beyond what I pick up from my friends, but given the premise you've provided, it sounds like most of the people in Gensokyo would ally with the Martians (the magical world is on Mars, right?), not the Mooninites. Especially given the first part of the quoted post.

Then again, that presumes the Touhou protagonist team to have the slightest bit of common sense and not just shoot at the first flying thing to cross their path that day, which is admittedly out of character.

Then again, if Negima is like most shounen manga, they're probably used to befriending (or, at least, "befriending" *cough*) people who shoot at them, too, which also seems to fit Touhou pretty closely as well. Yesterday's world-conquering villain is tomorrow's tea party guest, if TV Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DefeatMeansFriendship) has the right of it. :smallwink:

[Forum Explorer]

I think that's only happened three times so far, and they all seemed to be reasonable. (Except for the most recent really.) Not that the friends won't find excuses to fight one another in near fatal battles, its just that they were friends first before fighting.


Jack would win because he somehow managed to will himself back into existince after being unmade by the forces of creation. I don't think you can top that.

[Terraoblivion]

What about Yukari Yakumo who has in canon traveled to the Moon by manipulating the border of truth and illusion in the reflection of the full moon? She's pretty hard to top and the Watatsuki's do just that, which is part of why they're hated, Yukari is not someone who should be trivially beaten.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Yorihime defeats Sakuya, Marisa, Remilia and Reimu consecutively, without breaking a sweat, a few minutes after learning the spellcard rules. All of these are heavy hitters, and Reimu has nigh-impenetrable plot armour. Meanwhile Toyohime is a probability manipulator capable of vaporising a forest in an instant, and can redirect Yukari Yakumo's gaps. A lot of fans regard them as God Mode (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodModeSue) Villain Sues (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainSue).

Does any of that make them immune to being cute girls with panties to steal? Maybe they all go commando and don't care about such antics. I don't know the first thing about Touhou's background but I do understand its a Pink Bishoujo Ghetto that puts Midchilda's armed forces to shame.

And just saying, it is Rakan we are talking about. About the first attack we ever see out of him not just made up is best characterized as "anti-girl" class.

[Prime32]

Does any of that make them immune to being cute girls with panties to steal?All Touhou characters wear bloomers, silly. :smalltongue:

[Drascin]

Does any of that make them immune to being cute girls with panties to steal? Maybe they all go commando and don't care about such antics. I don't know the first thing about Touhou's background but I do understand its a Pink Bishoujo Ghetto that puts Midchilda's armed forces to shame.

And just saying, it is Rakan we are talking about. About the first attack we ever see out of him not just made up is best characterized as "anti-girl" class.

That's what I meant: Rakan has a whole narrative niche devoted to humiliating enemies - but so do the Watatsukis, from what it seemed in the comic, given they embarrass several of the most combat-skilled characters in the series one after another (the sheer humuiliation they do to Marisa is the most obvious - Yorihime doesn't even dodge, she just grab the attack like it was a cookie and munches on it while commenting it tastes like candy) and they don't even slightly exert themselves. So it seems a draw on narrative power. Yorihime in particular seems the kind of person who would just take the opening of you looking at her panties to run you through the face with a sword and a pithy comment.

[deuterio12]

Jack has been beaten several times already. The Lunar Capital remains undefeated so far.

Touhou also has a significant numerical advantage. Between the 12 main games and several extras, Touhou has a literal army of gods, reality warpers, perfect immortals, strongest faeries, and nuclear animals to face Negi's decaying harem.

And as already mentioned Touhou girls are pretty far from your usual scantly clad cheerleaders that start blushing and screaming when hit by an attack, unlike most girls in Negima.

[Soras Teva Gee]

All Touhou characters wear bloomers, silly. :smalltongue:

After consulting with Chamo on the matter... I'm told it will make no difference. After that he started babbling about the refined sensations of a classical style and I left before it got weird.


Jack has been beaten several times already. The Lunar Capital remains undefeated so far.

Touhou also has a significant numerical advantage. Between the 12 main games and several extras, Touhou has a literal army of gods, reality warpers, perfect immortals, strongest faeries, and nuclear animals to face Negi's decaying harem.

And as already mentioned Touhou girls are pretty far from your usual scantly clad cheerleaders that start blushing and screaming when hit by an attack, unlike most girls in Negima.

Um for numerical advantage.... Magicus Mundus has a population of 1.2 billion humans and demi-humans. While I imagine it has some TARDIS properties given the residents being youkai I'm finding references to Gensokyo as a landlocked region. I'd also be doubtful based on that scale the Lunar Capital densely populates the moon to any degree. And even at the levels of the sparsely populated Magicus Mundus in the end its the Moon while the Magical World is Mars.

This is any case well beyond the heavies of Ala Alba. Saying so leads me to conclude you're not much more familiar with Negima then I am with Touhou. Seriously "decaying harem" just doesn't make sense.

Aside from Negi's personal forces we start with two superpowers sporting fleets of airships with deployable "God Soldiers" ala Nausicaa backed by legions of mages and knights. The remarkable thing about Ala Rubra and Ala Alba isn't what they pull, but with how few people they pull it. And stuff like holding back a world ending ritual with two fleets of brute force establishes that even against the reality warping main villian those numbers still add up. So numerical advantage, not so much.

Also speaking of world ending rituals well if this everyone from Touhou more or less then everyone from Magicus Mundus would include Cosmo Entelecheia. Which includes guys like Dynamis known for summoning a literal armies of powerful shadow demons and Cthulu himself a massive eldritch abomination. And of course the Mage of the Begining who can do that and along with his/hers/its Code of the Lifemaker for an ultimate home-field advantage.

[Terraoblivion]

A legion generally isn't very useful without reaching you. Komachi could hypothetically stretch the distance between their location and their enemies to infinity or Yukari could create a gap under them dumping them in whatever location she finds more trollish. Or Toyohime could just wave her fan and purity them on an atomic level, I suppose. She's certainly callous enough to do it. Still, even so Mundus Magicus definitely has a numerical advantage, especially against the Lunar Capital itself which is thinly populated and mostly by fairly useless bunnies.

Also, I have to agree, most Touhou characters wouldn't really let it faze them to get their panties stolen. Either that or it would make them react violently, they are frequently an ill-tempered bunch who likes fighting. That includes the Watatsukis who would be the leaders of the Lunarian defense. In fact the only major character I can think of who it would give serious pause is Youmu. She is too soft after all.

[Prime32]

The Touhouverse's last-resort plan involves tricking the Negima army into entering Hakugyokuro, then injecting moondrugs into Lily White.

[Revlid]

I can't believe this is even a question.

Everyone of any power or influence in the Touhouverse (both Gensokyo and the Lunar Capital) is female.

Magicus Mundus has Negi Springfield. Game, Set, and Match.

Everyone has a brief fight, then pause to fawn over him, Negi unwittingly acquires another thirty-odd haremettes, and everyone goes home happy.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I can't believe this is even a question.

Everyone of any power or influence in the Touhouverse (both Gensokyo and the Lunar Capital) is female.

Magicus Mundus has Negi Springfield. Game, Set, and Match.

Everyone has a brief fight, then pause to fawn over him, Negi unwittingly acquires another thirty-odd haremettes, and everyone goes home happy.

I was going to comment on preferences, but then I remembered Setsuna and Konoka are officially "harem" members as well. Also there's no such thing as canon Touhou sexuality as far as I can tell, just assumptions based on the "all-female" thing.

[Terraoblivion]

Both The Great Tengu and Tsukuyomi, that is the god of the Moon not the crazy swordswoman, are male and hypothetically important in the setting. They just never appear except for a few messages from The Great Tengu in one of the Three Fairies manga.

[Drascin]

Also, I have to agree, most Touhou characters wouldn't really let it faze them to get their panties stolen. Either that or it would make them react violently, they are frequently an ill-tempered bunch who likes fighting. That includes the Watatsukis who would be the leaders of the Lunarian defense. In fact the only major character I can think of who it would give serious pause is Youmu. She is too soft after all.

I can just about picture Yukari chuckling and asking if you want to see more than just the panties... then showing you some kind of twelve-dimensional mindbending horror that makes you want to scrub your brain with razor wire if you say yes.

But actually, I think that the Tengus might react as well. Tengus are very proud things, and the very idea of having stuff stolen from them by a fool like Rakan is likely to be equal parts infuriating and embarrasing.

Also Eiki. I'd be surprised if the Judge of morality isn't a bit of a prude :smallwink:

[Terraoblivion]

Oh, certainly. I just think they might be likely to become aggressive due to it, not being taken aback or embarrassed.

[tensai_oni]

Shikieiki would never side with the Lunarians (http://sonohara.donmai.us/data/10f5d04d91f9bf0311e7196c2c2b4b0f.png).

[Soras Teva Gee]

I can't believe this is even a question.

Everyone of any power or influence in the Touhouverse (both Gensokyo and the Lunar Capital) is female.

Magicus Mundus has Negi Springfield. Game, Set, and Match.

Everyone has a brief fight, then pause to fawn over him, Negi unwittingly acquires another thirty-odd haremettes, and everyone goes home happy.

I figured Negi would be the cause of before the solution. Group from Touhou sees Negi and just has to have him for themselves.

Its like a writ large version of the dodgeball match.

[Drascin]

I feel I should ask something, though. How warlike is this Magicus Mundus? Because the main problem with Touhou characters is that they're not used to fighting for real in a war - combat in Touhou is decided through series of one-on-one duels, usually, and it's been so for years, so most of them are unlikely to use their abilities to the fullest out of the gate. This means that if this Mars is highly militarized, they'll have quite the initial advantage.

This is probably good, because if the Touhou gang were really willing to go all out, it'd be a matter of giving Remilia and Flan a spaceship and getting them near enough to have visual on Mars, what with Flan being capable of shattering anything she sees.

[Forum Explorer]

they are pretty warlike with large fleets and combat monsters to help them.

[Soras Teva Gee]

And some of those combat monsters include giant magical constructs called "God Soldiers" that are knock-offs from Eva/Nausicaa and fight battles on the scale of tactical nuke exchanges. There's also at least some precedent for deploying legendary anicent attack spells (again thing tactical nuke) as landmines even unskilled mages can set up.

Politically they've had a massive war in living memory and two superpowers in a rivalry to keep it sharp.

[Terraoblivion]

Tactical nukes aren't actually that impressive compared to a lot of the stuff used by Touhou characters should they break out of the spellcard rules. As Drascin pointed out, they can just stick Flandre in a spaceship and have her blow up Mars. Or put Yuyuko in front of an army and unleash her power to induce death. Basically, should the Touhou characters work together as an army and shed the civility bred by having to coexist in Gensokyo, the combined level of hax and cheating would be pretty much impossible to beat.

[Drascin]

Indeed - if the Touhou characters get serious, Mars as a planet ceases to exist in minutes. My worry is that, as mentioned, MM apparently is a really warlike place that just came out of an all-out war and has the proper mentality for it, while Gensokyans have the trouble that, for one, half of them are likely to go "eh, **** the Moon anyway", and, for another, fact is, they're going to get hit first, since they'll probably try to solve stuff with their usual "duel system" first and only think of all-out war after there's actually been casualties. If MM goes for a sufficently huge surprise strike first, they might cripple the Gensokyans (hell, there's a pretty good chance that if Reimu gets killed Gensokyo goes poof).

If they half-ass the first strike, though, the Martians are... well, toast, really.

[Soras Teva Gee]

If I may ask how specifically would you attack the planet?

I mean simply flying to Mars and blowing the planet itself up wouldn't necessarily work as MM is a pocket dimension over/around/alongside the planet using Mars as a template. Any kind of conflict would be via magical portals that could be guarded and defended against.

(Also depending on how the story turns out its quite possible that just about anything you would do to MM could be countered in warp-reality-back sense)

However a first strike.... only 67 million humans of MM can for sure leave it freely, though there's also evidence materials can be sent in large quantities out of it. I've yet to see anything I consider conclusive personally, and there's a fairly high probability of it changing too. Though you could still include most of the heavy hitters in the series. Plus summoned demons in large quantities, and at least some dragons.

Honestly probable result based on what's been said and what I've seen is that the MM erects a series of massive wards to keep Touhou out via whatever path they were getting in. They've already established they don't give a damn about being cut off from Earth even.

Unless we specify some sort of free unrestricted travel for everyone.

[Terraoblivion]

How would they blow up Mars? Flandre has the ability to unconditionally destroy everything she can see. No ifs and buts, if she can see it she can crush its "eye" in the palm of her hand and it will be gone, simple as that. That's just the kind of hax Touhou has when the spellcard rules aren't in effect and the various youkai didn't have to worry about not destroying the world around them.

As for unconditional movement? They would have Yukari's gaps which she has in the past used to pretty trivially breach the barrier the god Tsukuyomi erected around the Lunar Capital.

[Forum Explorer]

How would they blow up Mars? Flandre has the ability to unconditionally destroy everything she can see. No ifs and buts, if she can see it she can crush its "eye" in the palm of her hand and it will be gone, simple as that. That's just the kind of hax Touhou has when the spellcard rules aren't in effect and the various youkai didn't have to worry about not destroying the world around them.

As for unconditional movement? They would have Yukari's gaps which she has in the past used to pretty trivially breach the barrier the god Tsukuyomi erected around the Lunar Capital.

I think he means that since the Magical World is just based on Mars actually destroying Mars wouldn't achive anything besides messing up the entire solar system.

So while Flandre would still be incredibly devestating (though I can think of a few attacks that could bring her down) she couldn't one shot the entire world. Also if things get really bad for the Magical World then they would just destroy all the portals leading to the real world effectively permanetly seperating the two.

Though if they use the code of the lifemakers while in the Magical World they basically have infinite troops that can just be reborn instantly when they die.

[Terraoblivion]

Not only is Mundus Magicus tethered to Mars, permanently severing the connection between it and the real world will cause the place to start breaking down. So, yes, destroying Mars will still be a very big problem, even if it won't immediately destroy Mundus Magicus. Also, Flandre could destroy anything else like that too.

[Forum Explorer]

Not only is Mundus Magicus tethered to Mars, permanently severing the connection between it and the real world will cause the place to start breaking down. So, yes, destroying Mars will still be a very big problem, even if it won't immediately destroy Mundus Magicus. Also, Flandre could destroy anything else like that too.

What's your basis for that assumption that destroying Mars would cause it to start breaking down?

[Terraoblivion]

You mean apart from the lengthy explanation of how artificial worlds work around a hundred chapters ago? Or the fact that after Cosmo Entelechaia begins unraveling Mundus Magicus the 67 million human migrants and descendants of migrants would be dumped on Mars?

Also, closing off the gates completely has been stated to destabilize Mundus Magicus due to cutting off the external flow of magic sustaining it. That was a big part of why Fate destroyed the gates rather than just closing them.

[Forum Explorer]

I can't remember the artifical worlds explanation.

The dumping on Mars could be argued to mean that if the Magical World unraveled after Mars was destroyed everyone would be dumped into the debrie instead. (Likely killing them all, but hopefully that won't come up in this scenario)

I thought Fate destroyed the gates instead of closing them because it would be very easy to reopen them but would take a lot of time and effort to rebuild them.