Classes with good ref and will saves

[No brains]

What classes have the same saves as the bard, that is good ref and will saves at once?

[Tvtyrant]

Monk! :P And the usefulness of saves in a monk is zilch

[Greenish]

Swordsage.

[Elric VIII]

Monk! :P And the usefulness of saves in a monk is zilch


Swordsage.

How typical, someone suggests Monk and we have to drag Swordsage into it.

Personally, I think the Swordsage's Ref and Will saves are much more OP than the Monk's Ref and Will saves.


Also, Favored Soul.

[Greenish]

How typical, someone suggests Monk and we have to drag Swordsage into it.It's a time-honoured tradition.

[erikun]

Monk! :P And the usefulness of saves in a monk is zilch

Swordsage.

How typical, someone suggests Monk and we have to drag Swordsage into it.
Let's bring the Soulknife into the discussion, while we're at it. :smallbiggrin:

[Elric VIII]

Lurk - CPsi

If you're interested in PrCs:

Black Flame Zealot - CDiv
Bladesiner - CWar
Dervish - CWar
Ebon Saint - CPsi
Enlightened Fist - CAr
Lyric Thaumaturge - CM (note: this is a Bard PrC, if it matters)
Order of the Bow Initiate - CWar
Shadow Sun Ninja - ToB
Soulbow - CPsi
Suel Archanamach - CAr
Tatooed Monk - CWar
Temple Raider of Olidammara - CDiv
Zerth Cenobite - CPsi

[Drachasor]

Personally, I think the Swordsage's Ref and Will saves are much more OP than the Monk's Ref and Will saves.

Obviously, because the Monk sucks. Anything it has is less "OP" than almost any other class having it.

[Elric VIII]

Obviously, because the Monk sucks. Anything it has is less "OP" than almost any other class having it.

The Monk is perfectly leitimate, other people just munchkin their base saves too much.


CScoundrel
Avenging Executioner
Master of Masks

[Drachasor]

The Monk is perfectly leitimate, other people just munchkin their base saves too much.

The monk is a pretty pathetic class. The flavor is nice, some of the powers are cool, but as a package? Pretty bad.

[erikun]

If you're interested in PrCs:
Arcane Trickster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneTrickster.htm), Elocater (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/elocater.htm), Psionic Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm), and Prestige Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard) as well.

[Greenish]

Obviously, because the Monk sucks. Anything it has is less "OP" than almost any other class having it.


The monk is a pretty pathetic class. The flavor is nice, some of the powers are cool, but as a package? Pretty bad.
Your leg. It has been pulled.

[Drachasor]

Your leg. It has been pulled.

How is one supposed to tell on the internet? No matter how insane a statement is, you can find someone who believes it to be true. I tend to give people the benefit of assuming they aren't liars.

[HappyBlanket]

Personally, I think the Swordsage's Ref and Will saves are much more OP than the Monk's Ref and Will saves.Yeah, seriously. I mean, with the release of the Swordsage, what's the point of even playing a Monk anymore.

The Swordsage totally ruined the Monk's once legendary prowess as a competent character class.
How is one supposed to tell on the internet? No matter how insane a statement is, you can find someone who believes it to be true. I tend to give people the benefit of assuming they aren't liars.Same way you tell off the internet. Since you're such a giving person, give the benefit of assuming that people you meet aren't incredibly stupid.

Getting back to the topic: Soulknife does have good saves, but of course, they're a poor character class. Jester from DMC too, but I'm not sure if that one works well in play.

[Drachasor]

Same way you tell off the internet. Since you're such a giving person, give the benefit of assuming that people you meet aren't incredibly stupid.

People can be incredibly wrong without being incredibly stupid. The two things are different.

Hmm, I think the only harder combo of saves to get is Reflex and Fortitude.

[NNescio]

How is one supposed to tell on the internet? No matter how insane a statement is, you can find someone who believes it to be true. I tend to give people the benefit of assuming they aren't liars.

Poe's Law. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law)

[DeAnno]

Dragon, Fey, Monstrous Humanoid, and Outsider Hit Dice provide this as well :smallsmile:

[Analytica]

Ruathar, for all three full-casting, barely any prereqs levels.

[No brains]

The reason I asked was a little build I had considered where and ex hexblade2/rogue2 (or hex//rogue2) becomes a paladin/Ref+Will guy (also or paladin//guy).

Just wanted to have a little fun running around with awesome saves draped over my head like a blanket. :smallsmile:

Mettle, Evasion, divine grace, immunity to fear and poison and maybe whatever the other class could bring would make a frustrating opponent.

I was thinking of using bard, but you can't quite be a paladin and a bard at the same time unless you're a pally of freedom or destruction (but I don't want to be those).

[BlueInc]

The reason I asked was a little build I had considered where and ex hexblade2/rogue2 (or hex//rogue2) becomes a paladin/Ref+Will guy (also or paladin//guy).

Just wanted to have a little fun running around with awesome saves draped over my head like a blanket. :smallsmile:

Mettle, Evasion, divine grace, immunity to fear and poison and maybe whatever the other class could bring would make a frustrating opponent.

I was thinking of using bard, but you can't quite be a paladin and a bard at the same time unless you're a pally of freedom or destruction (but I don't want to be those).

Someone did a gestalt to ECL 10 with full saves and 20 different classes (I believe).

[Coidzor]

Well, you can be a bard & paladin, but you have to take the Devoted Performer Feat which is all kinds of borked to take on a character in play rather than as part of character creation.

[MeeposFire]

People can be incredibly wrong without being incredibly stupid. The two things are different.

Hmm, I think the only harder combo of saves to get is Reflex and Fortitude.

Like the ranger and totemist? Technically not the scout or the warblade though they are close.

[Leon]

The Swordsage totally ruined the Monk's once legendary prowess as a competent character class. .

Monk still is and always has been been a competent class regardless of what comes along and "theoretically" replaces it in the eyes of many.

[Coidzor]

Monk still is and always has been been a competent class regardless of what comes along and "theoretically" replaces it in the eyes of many.

Which is as meaningless a statement as "Fighter is good enough," without context and perspective.

[Leon]

Which is as meaningless a statement as "Fighter is good enough," without context and perspective.

Some of you don't like the Monk class - its no less a good class because you don't like it. Same with the Fighter.

[Vandicus]

Monk still is and always has been been a competent class regardless of what comes along and "theoretically" replaces it in the eyes of many.

At what?


Some of you don't like the Monk class - its no less a good class because you don't like it. Same with the Fighter.

At what?

You like the monk class, its no more a good class just because you like it. Same with the fighter.

[Elric VIII]

For the OP: The generic Expert class from UA can choose any 2 saves as their good saves. They can also gain Evsion via their bonus feats.



Monk still is and always has been been a competent class regardless of what comes along and "theoretically" replaces it in the eyes of many.

Just to be painfully explicit, I was being facetious with my remark about the Swordsage having better base saves than a Monk. It was a tongue-in-cheek comment about the dynamics of this forum. Let's not make this a Monk vs Swordsage thread.