Can a character be an Ur-Priest and Archivist at the same time?

[SoHardToRegiste]

Can a character with levels in Ur-Priest later add Archivist levels and be able to progress both his Ur-Priest and Archivist spellcasting?

The Ur-Priest special requirement:

"The character must have no ability to cast divine spells. If such spellcasting ability was previously possessed (as with an ex-cleric) that ability is forever forsaken. The character must be trained by another Ur-Priest."

However, if the first Archivist level is added AFTER Ur-Priest, can both Archivist and Ur-Priest spellcasting progress normally?

Ur-Priest hates gods and steals divine spells instead of praying to a god to receive spells.

The Archivist does not receive his spells from praying to a god either. He finds hidden lore and records divine spells in his prayerbook. Then prepares his divine spells from the prayerbook.

Can an Archivist be atheist, and thus also be an Ur-Priest at the same time? This character would wield divine power gained through 2 methods: siphoned energy (Ur-Priest method) and studying hidden lore (Archivist).

Is this acceptable by RAW and coherent with the flavor in the source books?

[MeeposFire]

Well consider that druids don't get spells from gods either (well they don't have to) and this feature would affect them...

[Kefkafreak]

I would definitely allow it, but I doubt it's RAW.

[AMFV]

I am away from books at the moment, but IIRC you can't mix ur priest casting with any other divine casting. Also doing that would be kind of redundant as is.

[NecroRick]

I would definitely allow it, but I doubt it's RAW.

Not having other divine casting is a requirement for the prestige class.

If he gains divine casting (e.g. Archivist) later on, then he suffers the normal penalties (if any) for no longer meeting the requirements for the prestige class.

[faceroll]

A level in ur-priest immediately violates an ur-priests special requirements. :smallconfused:

[NNescio]

A level in ur-priest immediately violates an ur-priests special requirements. :smallconfused:

Ah, the good ol' Dragon Disciple's Schrödinger's catgirl box...

[gkathellar]

Maybe. I'd warn against it unless you have a very specific build in mind, though, since your Archivist levels would be functionally useless.

[sreservoir]

afaict it works by any sane reading which allows ur-priest to actually cast their spells.

(whether allowing ur-priests to cast their spells is sane, on the other hand...)

[Raendyn]

NecroRick said whats RAW, and RAI so it should be like this!

Moreover acording to FR & Dragonlance settings all divine magic is granted by gods. PH also supports this argument, there are clerics that don't believe in a specific god but in an idea. & they gain their powers from all the gods that support this ideas, they have associated portfolios etc. That's what's happening with Archivists.

Ur-Priests on the other hand steal this power because it is everywhere around anyone so divine casters may use it.

Conclusion, this "archivists don't like gods & Ur-Priests hate them= they have something in common" is not very accurate.:smallwink:

[Drachasor]

A level in ur-priest immediately violates an ur-priests special requirements. :smallconfused:

I think the sensible conclusion is that the prerequisites a class has do not apply to abilities that class grants. That doesn't mean they don't apply to the same sort of abilities you'd get from another source.

Otherwise an Ur-Priest could become a Druid and level up both castings, or even become another sort of divine caster that serves a particular god. That wouldn't make a lot of sense.

Obviously a DM could rule a specific class is an acceptable exception.