power gamers: what's the nastiest thing you can think of within these limitations? :)

[Gobidobo]

Hi :)

balance shmalance. lol you'll see why in a sec. :) my GM gave me the task of coming up with 3 characters for his campaign.. i thought it'd be fun to get some other people's perspectives. :) that said, i'd *REALLY* like to know what the nastiest thing that you can come up with, within these restrictions, would be.


the specifications & limitations are that the characters:


must be evil

must be 16th level 180k exp

if it's "magical" then it must be a specialized sorcerer --- specifying in necromancy or a couple other things, but he really isn't that big on using magic.. so.. *shrug*

can be psionic.

you can use monsters & creatures from any of the monster manuals from D&D 3e/3.5e or pathfinder... or D&D wiki or this forum or whatever.. doesn't matter, as long as it will work with pathfinder 3e/3.5e. :)

whatever classes are chosen must be from pathfinder... it's a d&d/pathfinder homebrew type campaign.. but like i said, you can use creatures from d&d 3e/3.5e/d&d wiki/online (anything for 3e/3.5e or pathfinder, basically)...


can be a combination of up to 3 classes. taking the highest of the 3 classes in everything.

can have UP TO a 50% experience penalty.


the characters must *NOT* be:

must not be undead, so no vampires, liches (er is it litch?), etc..
must not be demonic
must not be angelic
must not be a dragon
must not be 1/2 dragon
no celestrial or etc..


he *WILL* allow 1/2 fiend template, though



to give you an idea of what he's going for, his character is:

a large illithid with the immortal template that's an ebon servant, 1/2 fiend and one quarter paragon




so.. any ideas? :) please include any vital feats you'd recommend & any suggestions at all would be greatly appreciated!




i was thinking of some sort of beholder or a naga or something.. but... i wanna see what you folks can come up with :)

[Urpriest]

What are the restrictions on the creatures? Since you're talking about a Beholder level adjustment is irrelevant, so what are those limits?

[kestrel404]

So let me get this straight. You want 3 characters who are ECL16
Are Triple-Gestalt
Must be 'sorcerors' specializing in Necromancy if they're spellcasters
Can use anything from Pathfinder/3.5/3e/Homebrew (including psionics)
And have various template limitations.

Is that right?

[Tyndmyr]

How do you feel about beholder mage and tainted scholar?

I mean, seriously, with triple gestalt, I can probably work in two nines by then, and some ridiculously heavy artillery.

[Timeless Error]

You want something really, really nasty? It looks like this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869366/The_most_powerful_character._EVER.) doesn't break any of the restrictions you mentioned.

[Gobidobo]

What are the restrictions on the creatures? Since you're talking about a Beholder level adjustment is irrelevant, so what are those limits?

he didn't really give us any, but i guess i'll call him & ask. lol he wanted to give us some restrictions, so we think outside of our usual little boxes, but still give us enough freedom to come up with really unique characters.

i thought.. HEHEHE! a BEHOLDER! lol but i'll run it by him, just to make sure it's okay. :) thanks for bringing that up! :)



So let me get this straight. You want 3 characters who are ECL16
Are Triple-Gestalt
Must be 'sorcerors' specializing in Necromancy if they're spellcasters
Can use anything from Pathfinder/3.5/3e/Homebrew (including psionics)
And have various template limitations.

Is that right?

they don't have to be triple gestalt, they can have up to 3, though.

they don't have to specialize in necromancy, but he's nerfing the magic users abilities (one of the people in our group always builds really wicked sorcerers & he's trying to have us think outside of our normal boxes, so he put some restrictions on the magic usage), except for necromancy and a couple others (which i forgot)..

and yep the rest is correct. :D




How do you feel about beholder mage and tainted scholar?

I mean, seriously, with triple gestalt, I can probably work in two nines by then, and some ridiculously heavy artillery.

oooh you've made me smile. lol you can do whatever you want, just be sure to do your worst! :D

[faceroll]

If you use psionics, are you still restricted to evocation and necromancy? Cause you could use a Spells-to-Power erudite to totally circumvent that rule, as you're not a spellcaster.

[Gobidobo]

If you use psionics, are you still restricted to evocation and necromancy? Cause you could use a Spells-to-Power erudite to totally circumvent that rule, as you're not a spellcaster.

sounds peachy to me! :D

[Fouredged Sword]

Or you could go with a saveless fear stacking sorcerer. Dread witch bypasses all fear immunity and fell freighten sonic snap grants a no save shaken effect. Apply three times and you have a no save cower effect.

If you can't get three spells in one round in you aren't trying.

Another idea is a straight druid who stays in dire (sp?) tortis form all day. You get to act in the suprise round, and if there isn't one you get one that only you act in. You act like you always win initiative.

[Gobidobo]

You want something really, really nasty? It looks like this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869366/The_most_powerful_character._EVER.) doesn't break any of the restrictions you mentioned.

LOL wow! thanks :D

that made me laugh so hard, i am crying. lmao. *wipes tears away* he'd be so pissed at me, i think imma build one of those. *dies laughing* i wonder if i'd even have to roll to succeed. lmao.

i'll make one, just for sh!ts & giggles.

the funnier thing is that we just got done playing kobolds a couple weeks ago! that's too funny. :D



If you use psionics, are you still restricted to evocation and necromancy? Cause you could use a Spells-to-Power erudite to totally circumvent that rule, as you're not a spellcaster.

sounds good to me! :D



Or you could go with a saveless fear stacking sorcerer. Dread witch bypasses all fear immunity and fell freighten sonic snap grants a no save shaken effect. Apply three times and you have a no save cower effect.

If you can't get three spells in one round in you aren't trying.

Another idea is a straight druid who stays in dire (sp?) tortis form all day. You get to act in the suprise round, and if there isn't one you get one that only you act in. You act like you always win initiative.

lmao, that's a great idea..












you guys are so awesome. i have a headache from oxygen deprivation.. i can only imagine how pissed my friends are going to be at me. :D lol :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[kestrel404]

Well, here's a nasty combo:
Race: Young Green Dragon (Attribute Mods are +6 str, +4 con, +2 int/wis/cha, +10 natural armor, 6d6 breath weapon)
Gestalt that with Cleric 5/Divine Oracle 5/Contemplative N
Choose to be a cleric of any non-good deity that grants the spell domain. Take Spell and Transformation as your domains. Take the Domain Spontaniety feat. You can now spend a turn attempt to spontaneously use most of the best spells in the game.

If you want to be really ridiculous, Gestalt that with Ardent 2/Totemist 2/Incarnate 1/Soul Manifester 10/Ardent +N
You're 1 level shy of getting 8th level psionic powers, and you've got all the soulmelds you want from either totemist or incarnate lists.

The other two characters, I'll leave up to the imagination - but if you're going to be a beholder anyway, look into the Beholder Mage prestige class...

[Gobidobo]

Well, here's a nasty combo:
Race: Young Green Dragon (Attribute Mods are +6 str, +4 con, +2 int/wis/cha, +10 natural armor, 6d6 breath weapon)
Gestalt that with Cleric 5/Divine Oracle 5/Contemplative N
Choose to be a cleric of any non-good deity that grants the spell domain. Take Spell and Transformation as your domains. Take the Domain Spontaniety feat. You can now spend a turn attempt to spontaneously use most of the best spells in the game.

If you want to be really ridiculous, Gestalt that with Ardent 2/Totemist 2/Incarnate 1/Soul Manifester 10/Ardent +N
You're 1 level shy of getting 8th level psionic powers, and you've got all the soulmelds you want from either totemist or incarnate lists.

The other two characters, I'll leave up to the imagination - but if you're going to be a beholder anyway, look into the Beholder Mage prestige class...

Can't be anything affiliated with a dragon, unfortunately. That'd be awesome, though! And thank you for putting in the time & effort to put that together!

[kestrel404]

Can't be anything affiliated with a dragon, unfortunately. That'd be awesome, though! And thank you for putting in the time & effort to put that together!

Meh, the dragon hit dice were just there to get full BAB and good skill points in the gestalt. Outsider hit dice work the same way - choose any Devil with an ECL less than 17 and it'll do just as well.

Oh, and for that build, you're Wisdom SAD.

[Fouredged Sword]

Note a druid can take advantage of fell shaken as well, though you loose out on dread witch.

Still always going first and slaping the toughest monster with cower literaly before anything else can act is stupidly powerful.

get a club enchanted with all the init boosting enchants, I think you can stack +8 initiative onto one.

Then get heavy armor prof and deck yourself out in huge enchanted ironwood plate barding with a bunker built on top.

Get leadership and overland flight be a floating battlement for your party members and minions. Have a battle bridel stuck in your mouth and everyone rideing you can make a reflexive ride check to negate attacks agenst you once per round... Each!

[Tyndmyr]

Let's start with the first things. The cheddar what applies to everything.

Grab the backstory. Scribble in Otoyough Hole, Metamagic Storm, etc, etc. All the various feat locations you can think of that are helpful. Deduct the trivial gold cost from WBL.

Next, devote yourself to an elder evil. I mean, you're going to be evil anyhow, might as well grab five free feats.

Next, in your backstory, mention that you joined the church of magic(Complete Champ). Essentially as soon as gameplay starts, you'll start killing things with magic, which gains you ranks. By end of session 1, you should be at maximum ranks. This nets you some minor bonuses, a minor gold loss...oh, and 1/day free counterspell with no limitations whatever. It doesn't take actions, either. Nothing beats telling the DM "no".

Also, leadership. Obviously, they will also be in your church, and evil as well. Grin manically.

[Groverfield]

No one's mentioned cancer mage infinite stacks cheese yet...?

[Urpriest]

No one's mentioned cancer mage infinite stacks cheese yet...?

Hell, it looks like the character can be any monster whatsoever, regardless of LA. So Paragon/ELH Pseudonatural on something stupid like a great wyrm prismatic dragon...or, y'know, the OP could actually tell us the real rules rather than wasting our time.

[Xtomjames]

So he's allowing triple gestalt characters huh, any monster class...hahaha.

Right, in the following you'll have three classes, gestalted, one will be a monster template progression, and the other two will be main classes.

Quickling (PF Beastiary 2) (CR/LA +3) Half-Fiend Template (MM)(LA +4) Beast of Bane Template (FR Shadowdale) (LA +2), Chameleon Creature Template (FR Underdark) (LA +1), Ti-Khana Template (FF) (LA +4) Total LA is +14
HD doesn't apply with Pathfinder LA system as there is no ECL in Pathfinder.

Gestalt this construction with the following classes: Rogue 16 /Fighter 16

That's three gestalted classes put together. Since following gestalt rules you can gestalt a monster class along side a standard class.

The racial construction would do this for you. See Spoiler section for more:


CE Small fey
Senses low-light vision; Perception +9
Defense
(+? Dex, +1 dodge, +1 natural, +1 size)
hp base on class progression
+4 to reflex save, +10 to Dex
Defensive Abilities evasion, natural invisibility, supernatural
speed, uncanny dodge; DR 5/cold iron
Weaknesses slow susceptibility
Offense
Speed 120 ft.

Special Attacks sneak attack +1d6 (~stacks with rogue class)
Statistics

Feats Dodge, Mobility, Spring AttackB, Weapon Finesse

Skills Acrobatics +14 (+50 jump), Bluff +9, Craft (any one) +9,
Escape Artist +14, Perception +9, Spellcraft +6, Stealth +18,
Survival +4, Use Magic Device +7
Languages Aklo, Common, Sylvan
SQ poison use
Ecology

Special Abilities
Natural Invisibility (Su) A quickling is invisible when
motionless. It loses this invisibility and remains
visible for 1 round in any round in which it takes an
action other than a free action.
Supernatural Speed (Su) A quickling moves with
incredible speed. Save for when it remains
motionless (at which point it is invisible), the
quickling’s shape blurs and shimmers with this
speed, granting it concealment (20% miss
chance). In addition, this ability grants the
quickling evasion and uncanny dodge (as the
rogue abilities of the same names).
Slow Susceptibility (Ex) A quickling that
succumbs to a slow effect loses its
supernatural speed ability and is sickened
as long as the effect persists. This sickened
condition persists for 1 round after the slow effect ends.
Qlippoth, Thulgant–Quickling
Few creatures can match the speed of a quickling. These
malicious fey creatures delight in striking with blinding
speed and accuracy, often killing their victims without
ever fully revealing themselves; the victim simply
spurts blood and falls over dead, with no witnesses to
the quickling’s deed. Though related to brownies and
grigs, quicklings share none of their kin’s generosity or
merriment, choosing instead to live a life of cruelty and
viciousness. Quicklings pride themselves on insults and
brutality, and frequently stalk and harass their quarry
until the victim gives up the chase. While quicklings
are naturally invisible when motionless, they rarely
contain themselves, and bob and twitch while standing
and talking to other creatures. Quicklings hate every
other race of creature, particularly elves, gnomes, and
other kinds of fey. They
barely tolerate their
own kind, and rarely
work together for longer
than a few weeks.
Quicklings stand just
over 2-1/2 feet tall and
weigh 15 pounds.

Half-fiend traits

"Half-fiend" is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature with an Intelligence score of 4 or more and nongood alignment (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

A half-fiend uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Size and Type

The creature’s type changes to outsider. Do not recalculate Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves. Size is unchanged. Half-fiends are normally native outsiders.
Speed

A half-fiend has bat wings. Unless the base creature has a better fly speed, the creature can fly at the base creature’s base land speed (average maneuverability).
Armor Class

Natural armor improves by +1 (this stacks with any natural armor bonus the base creature has).
Attack

A half-fiend has two claw attacks and a bite attack, and the claws are the primary natural weapon. If the base creature can use weapons, the half-fiend retains this ability. A half-fiend fighting without weapons uses a claw when making an attack action. When it has a weapon, it usually uses the weapon instead.
Full Attack

A half-fiend fighting without weapons uses both claws and its bite when making a full attack. If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack and its bite as a natural secondary attack. If it has a hand free, it uses a claw as an additional natural secondary attack.
Damage

Half-fiends have bite and claw attacks. If the base creature does not have these attack forms, use the damage values in the table. Otherwise, use the values in the table or the base creature’s damage values, whichever are greater.
Special Attacks

A half-fiend retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains the following special attack.
Smite Good (Su)

Once per day the creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD (maximum of +20) against a good foe.
Spell-Like Abilities

A half-fiend with an Intelligence or Wisdom score of 8 or higher has spell-like abilities depending on its Hit Dice, as indicated on the table. The abilities are cumulative. Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable once per day. Caster level equals the creature’s HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.
Special Qualities

A half-fiend has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to poison.
Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10.
Damage reduction: 5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more).
A half-fiend’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Spell resistance equal to creature’s HD + 10 (maximum 35).
Abilities

Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +4, Dex +4, Con +2, Int +4, Cha +2.
Skills

A half-fiend gains skill points as an outsider and has skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier) × (HD + 3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation—the half-fiend gains outsider skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. Treat skills from the base creature’s list as class skills, and other skills as cross-class.
Challenge Rating

HD 4 or less, as base creature +1; HD 5 to 10, as base creature +2; HD 11 or more, as base creature +3.
Alignment

Always evil (any).
Level Adjustment

+4.


Beast of Bane

Damage: The damage for natural weapons increases by one step (in this case from 1d4 to 1d6). Keep all special qualities and attacks of base creatures, gain: frightful presence (EX) 30-fft radius sonic effect, HD fewer than the creature, Will DC (10+Level+Cha Mod). when the creature activates this power, its eyes glow bright emerald green. Feed (SU) when the creature slays a humanoid opponent, it can feed on the corpse, devouring both flesh and life force as a full-round action. Feeding destroys the victim's body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires prt of the corpese. there is a 50% chance that wish, miracle, or true resurrection spell can restore the devoured victim to life. If the check fails, the devoured victim cannot be brought back by mortal magic. The creature advances HD by consuming corpses in this fashion, for every three suitable corpses the creature devours it gains 1 HD. Its attack bonus and saves improve as normal for a creature of this type and HD, and it gains skill points, feats, and ability score improvements normally. (You basically get free hit points that are permanent). Smite Good (Su): Once per day the creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to it's HD total (max +20O against a good foe.

Special Qualities: retains all SQs from base creature, gains: darkvision out ot 60 feet, DR 10/silver and magic. Immunity to fear and poison. (If already has any of these use the better values, DR's overlap), gain +4 to Cha.

Chameleon Creature Template: Gain reptilian subtype, Tongue Attack (no damage) 10 foot reach, useful for touch attacks. Gain climb speed to half your movement speed, gain: low light vision, +10 to hide, +4 to move silently, +8 to climb checks and can always take 10 to climb.

Ti-Khana template: gain +4 to natural armor, gain bite attack and choose BAB between character level or class level which ever is higher. Bite attack deals poison, and deals 1d6 points of damage. Poison (ex) (DC 10+1/2 creatures HD or Level+ Creature's Con mod), with each bite attack, the damage is Con damage). Psionics (SP) Detect Poison (as per 6th level Sorc), Alternate Form: (Tiny or Large viper, as per Shapechange cast by 19th level sorcerer but only allows viper form.) Aversion: Compulsion effect on one creature with in 30ft, Will save (DC 17) to negate or gain aversion to snakes for 10 minutes. Must stay at least 20 feet from the subject and all other snakes). Must move outside of this range without taking any other actions until they are outside of 20 feet. If the will save succeeds they are still affected, taking a -4 penalty to dex until the effects wears off or the subject is no longer within 20 feet. similar to Antipathy as cast by 16th level sorcerer.
Gain SR 13+Challenge Rating/Character Level. Gain +2 to both Dex and Int.



With this build basically you get a super fast, super stealthy uber damage machine. Since you already gain Mobility, Dodge, and Spring Attack, I'd add the Combat Expertise, Cleave, Greater Cleave, line of feats. Maybe Endurance, Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting and Monkey Grip. Your Strength will be huge for your size. (I'm Thinking of building this myself just as a normal gestalt...lol).

[Fouredged Sword]

I am going by the asumption that the poster needs mean and hard to beat, not broken.

One good build is the Warforged Immortal.

Be a warforged, take two flaws. Get Adimatium body, toughness, and trollblooded.

Now go the Rager varient of barbarian (the one that you auto rage after your HP drops bellow a level)

Now go flameing berzerker (the barbarian that gains fire immunity when rageing)

Now go warforged juggernaut.

Grab a componented ring of acid immunity.

You are immune to fire and acid. All non fire or acid damage becomes nonlethal damage. You are immune to non lethal damage.

You now are immune to HP damage unless the foe has trollbane on his sword. The most something can do is hit you with fire and drop your HP to the level you rage, giveing you a stat boost and not killing you.

You are also immune to stat damage /drain, negative levels, and mind effecting stuff.

Never stop killing!

Alternately get a ring of both fire and acid immunity componented to you. then you can't get HP damage at all without trollbane. They can't take the rings off becuse they are components, and they can't sunder them becuse as parts of you they are also immune to damage!

[cd4]

Or how about a really strong (say max strength as much as possible) monster who is large+, has 2/3 levels of hulking hurler with overburdened heave and 2 levels of bloodstorm blade and a casting of Polymorph any Object to get a heavy giant rock.

The character carries the rock around and throws it at a foe for (((weight -400)/200)+5)d6 damage which then comes back to him as a free action allowing iterative attacks.

Perfect for really nasty artillery attacks.

Combined with the warforged if you choose warforged charger (though that has LA and RHD) then you get a really powerful robot.

[Retech]

Uhhh, I thought that the OP wants a character with up to three classes total (as in, no crazy multiclassing). It seemed like it, even though they said Gestalt, because she said "up to three".

---

And since it's Pathfinder too, you can apply Pathfinder style templates, meaning CR = LA.

Add the templates: Triple Decrepit, Young, Perpetually Drunk, Advanced x 5

This makes you: Venerable, One size Smaller, Perpetually Sickened, but gives you...

Str: +16
Dex: +24
Con: +16
All the rest: + 20

Minus Venerable penalties

All for zero LA! This is good because you can stack this on top of other stuff, and if Dragonwrought Kobold does not count as a "dragon", then that means no venerable penalties and all the bonuses!

Alternatively, replace one or two of the advanced templates (+4 to each attribute score) with Demon-Possesed, Devil-Bound, Celestial-Blessed, etc to get various immunities and abilities of the respective creatures.

[Xtomjames]

Well the OP asked for the craziest thing I can give him. That's probably the craziest thing I can give him that isn't a spell caster but is extremely powerful.

[erikun]

Ethergaunt//Spell-to-Power Erudite//Psionic Artificer, perhaps?
Or would that require 17th level? I don't quite recall the Ethergaunt's HD

[Eldariel]

Ethergaunt//Spell-to-Power Erudite//Psionic Artificer, perhaps?
Or would that require 17th level? I don't quite recall the Ethergaunt's HD.

Blacks are 17. There are other lesser ones tho.

[Acanous]

I've got an infinate-action Bard Build somewhere that only required lv 15 and Eberron/heroes of Battle/Spell Compendium to pull off, but if you're seriously going punpun, just go punpun. Your friends will never play with you again.

The way I'm reading the rules she posted, it looks like "Up to three different classes, XP penalties in effect" so multiclassing is going to cost you unless one of the classes is favored, and multiclassing again WILL cost you, no matter what.

Are divine casters under similar restrictions to Arcane Casters?

[erikun]

Ethergaunt//Spell-to-Power Erudite//Psionic Artificer, perhaps?
Or would that require 17th level? I don't quite recall the Ethergaunt's HD.
A followup on this.

I'm not quite sure what "combination of up to 3 classes" is supposed to mean, as it seems like you mean only three classes total throughout 16 levels, but the way you state it makes it sound like triple-gestalt (taking 16 levels of three different classes).

Black Ethergaunts are 16HD creatures (so they would fit) with 17th level Wizard spellcasting, +20 INT, and if I recall correctly, full immunity to any arcane spell with SR: Yes. They also have +4 LA, but your DM is ignoring that.

Spell-to-Power Erudite has the ability to learn any Psion/Wilder power and any Wizard/Sorcerer spell. They do have an unusual "must not have levels in another class equal to or higher" restriction, which shouldn't apply in gestalt but you never know.

Psionic Artificer is from the Eberron setting, and is basically the regular Artificer that can craft psionic item. Either by oversight or intention, they can craft any magic item as well, allowing you to make anything you want.

If your DM goes with the StP Erudite restriction, then give this character a try.

Black Ethergaunt (16HD) // Psion 6/Thrallherd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/thrallherd.htm) 10 // Psionic Artificer 16

The Ethergault, as noted, gets 17th level spellcasting and 9th level spells. The Psionic Artificer, as noted, gets the ability to make just about anything. The Thrallherd gains two cohorts, much like Leadership, who are fully devoted to you. Go ahead and make one of them a standard StP Erudite, who as a single-classed character isn't bothered by the restriction. The other should be a Druid/Planar Shepard, preferably attuned to the Plane of Fire. (Wildshape Ranger/Planar Shepard works as well, if your DM insists on no spellcasters.) This will allow the Planar Shepard to Wildshape into an Efreeti and grant you three Wishes, for free, anytime you'd like.

Oh, and I recall someone optimizing the StP Erudite so that he can grant a Psion (yourself) full access to his known powers.

Enjoy.

[Necroticplague]

Oh, and I recall someone optimizing the StP Erudite so that he can grant a Psion (yourself) full access to his known powers.

Enjoy.

I think the trick was to use metaconcert, this creates a psionic entity that manifests powers. This entity is not you, so having it manifest your powers does not count against your unique powers per day, so you only end up using one (the one you used to manifest metaconcert.

[Gobidobo]

Okay sorry it's taken so long to get back to you all.. I have been gone all day. lol

First of all... Wow! You guys have given me a lot to work with & to think about! Thanks so much! :D




What are the restrictions on the creatures? Since you're talking about a Beholder level adjustment is irrelevant, so what are those limits?

I called my GM & yes, he IS allowing a beholder. -- You can be anything you want, pretty much.. Just not a dragon, undead, a demon or an angel.

I found out that he IS actually allowing ONE of the 3 characters to be from a different plain than the material plane.. So you CAN be celestrial or something like that if you wanted to be.. But only 1 of the 3 can be that.



So!... Here's what he said, in regards to LA..

If it doesn't have a level adjustment, go off the challenge rating. You'd 1/2 the challenge rating..

So if your base creature had a challenge rating of of 8, it would become 4 & you'd also 1/2 the bonus dice.

Using this example, with the halved CR of 4, tht would equal a 20% experience penalty out of the 50% allowable.



Some Example Characters (that people are actually going to be running in this campaign) are:

- a dread combat iron gollum

- fallen astral deva

- large illithid 1/2 fiend immortal ebon servator

- caigar (homebrew cat-people race) nymph child immortal savage ferral

- war troll ebon servator dreadnaut




You can be/have a Necromancer or Psion, but not both on the same character template.



Magic use: Universal, Evocation or Necromancy..



Uhhh, I thought that the OP wants a character with up to three classes total (as in, no crazy multiclassing). It seemed like it, even though they said Gestalt, because she said "up to three".

---

And since it's Pathfinder too, you can apply Pathfinder style templates, meaning CR = LA.

Yep, exactly! :)

You take the best of each classes abilities.. But you don't HAVE to multi-class.


if Dragonwrought Kobold does not count as a "dragon"

He's not allowing dragon anything. Can be a regular Kobold, but not dragonwrought.

[Gobidobo]

I've got an infinate-action Bard Build somewhere that only required lv 15 and Eberron/heroes of Battle/Spell Compendium to pull off, but if you're seriously going punpun, just go punpun. Your friends will never play with you again.

The way I'm reading the rules she posted, it looks like "Up to three different classes, XP penalties in effect" so multiclassing is going to cost you unless one of the classes is favored, and multiclassing again WILL cost you, no matter what.

Are divine casters under similar restrictions to Arcane Casters?

Oh, I am going to make Pun Pun, but just as a joke character to show my GM. I want to make him poo his britches, but only for the sake of laughs. :)

He didn't say anything about divine casters. He did mention that he can't figure out how a Cleric would work in the group, even if it is an evil one.. So I am not sure about going the divine caster route. It could be worth considering, though. :) He says it just has to make sense.... To him. lol

In regards to multi-classing.. He said that you can gestalt, and just take the best scores of the 3, but everything has to fit within the 50% level adjustment. :)

[erikun]

In regards to multi-classing.. He said that you can gestalt, and just take the best scores of the 3, but everything has to fit within the 50% level adjustment. :)
Is Pathfinder multiclassing really that different from D&D? Because I have no clue what you mean by "take the best scores of the 3" or the "50% level adjustment". :smallfrown:

[Gobidobo]

Hell, it looks like the character can be any monster whatsoever, regardless of LA. So Paragon/ELH Pseudonatural on something stupid like a great wyrm prismatic dragon...or, y'know, the OP could actually tell us the real rules rather than wasting our time.

The characters can be pretty much any monster, if it doesn't have a LA, you half the CR. If the base monster CR is 8, you half it to 4 & the 4 is 20% LA of the 50% allotted (that's the numbers he gave me).

He's not allowing Wyrms/dragons/undead/vampires/demons/angels

You CAN have 1 character of the 3 that is not from the material plane. You cannot combine psionic & magic using on one character. If it's a beholder, it can use magic or be psionic.

In regards to non-material plane creatures & all that, he is allowing one non-material plane creature of the three. You can use whatever templates & stuff you want, as long as they follow the no undead/demonic/angelic rule & you aren't making any kind of wyrm or dragon or undead and everything ends up equaling 50% or below in regards to the level adjustment.

Example characters that will be being played:

- a dread combat iron gollum monk

- fallen astral deva

- large illithid 1/2 fiend immortal ebon servator

- caigar (homebrew cat-people race) nymph child immortal savage ferral

- war troll ebon servator dreadnaut



You CAN have magic equipment, enchantments, etc, but it must fit within the budget of a 16th level starting character & nothing above +4... OR... Have a REALLY REALLY good reason why you have to have it. <<< GM's words. lol In other words.. Have a good back-story.


Hope that helped.












Is Pathfinder multiclassing really that different from D&D? Because I have no clue what you mean by "take the best scores of the 3" or the "50% level adjustment". :smallfrown:


No. It's not that different. He's just saying take the better of everything of whatever classes you combine, IF you combine them. Multi-classing isn't really necessary or something I'm expecting, I was just wanting to see what other people could come up with within his rules, so I could get some better ideas as to what would work & see different people's perspectives. lol

[Gobidobo]

:smallconfused: I wonder if there's any way to do like... 1/2 chichimec.. lol

[kestrel404]

Black Ethergaunts...Thrallherd...Psionic Artificer...


Wow, this would be ridiculously awesome, except the GM does not appear to be ignoring LA - in fact, from the above statement it sounds like LA is being applied such that LA + TOTAL HD == 16. So Black Ethergaunt is right out - which is too bad, because they're totally awesome. If I'm wrong, and you CAN apply LA to only one track of the Gestalt, then reduce the Psionic Artificer level by 4 and take this build, no question. It's far and away the most powerful (And Psionic Artificer 12 already has most of the good stuff, anyway)

However, if we're going on the assumption that LA is going to reduce the HD on the end product, there's only one choice - don't have any LA! Because seriously, losing HD in a format like this is really terribad.

Going on this assumption, here's my best no-LA build for you:

Race: Lesser Aasimar (+2 wis, +2 cha, no LA), plus whatever +0 LA templates you can find that will raise WIS or CHA.
Classes:
Druid 6/Planar Shepherd 10//Paladin 4/Cleric 2/Bone Knight 10//Dread Necromancer 2/Binder 4/Anima Mage 10

Feats you need: Nightbringer Initiate, Extend Spell, Persist Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persist)

This character could be considdered the "persistomancer", because you'll be using the 'persist spell' metamagic AT LEAST 6 times a day, on your choice of cleric, druid and dread necromancer spells up to 6th level (8th level for druid). From Anima Mage, you get 3 persist spell uses thanks to Vestige Metamagic (plus you get to bind 3 vestiges of up to 6th (or 7th with improved binding) level). From Paladin, Cleric and Dread Necromancer, you get 3+Cha mod Rebukes each! This gives you a total of 9+3*cha. Assuming you've got at least a 20 each in Cha (this should not be hard, and I'd expect it to be closer to 26), that gives you a total of at least 24 turn attempts, and at 7 turn attempts per free persist, that's at least 3 more persists, possibly more.

Do you know what ELSE this build is ridiculously good at? Creating undead. Specifically, you'll be able to controll around 200 hit dice of undead. Take the Undead Leadership feat and that number shoots up to almost 350.

As an example of what you can do with that many undead - take one of your 3HD undead followers. Make them a level 3 necropolitan silverbrow human bard with Subsonics, Song of the Heart and Dragonfire Inspiration and the Inspirational Boost spell. Huddle all of your undead around you at the beginning of the day and cast a Persisted Recitation (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20021103a) spell. Now have your necropolitan bard start singing at the top of his undead lungs. He's undead, he can keep that song up all day. Have all your undead be made by someone with the corpsecrafter feat that lets your undead deal extra cold damage (requires a 2 feat investment, but your undead can be created by one of your minions and controlled by you, so it doesn't need to be your 2 feats). In total, you can now have ~50 Zombie Lions (3HD, with pounce, weapon focus & multi-attack) that each can charge with +10 or so to hit for 3 attacks (claw/claw/bite), each of which doing about 1d6 + 3d6 fire + 1d6 cold + 2 damage. And you can have them ridden by another 50 level 1 Necropolitans Duskblades wielding lances and casting true strike on themselves, hitting for double damage (and they're also getting the +3d6 fire damage).

After that, you've still got about 150 HD of undead to play with. Just for example.

[Fouredged Sword]

A powerful undead creation build uses masterspellthief and dread necromancer to send your caster level through the roof with a gestault. Something like Dread necro // wizard // spellthief 1 / bard / sublime chord.

Now your caster levels all stack and benifit from the dread necro control pool increase.

You get something like Cl 40 in EACH control pool and you can use fell animate to create zombie dragons to fill all of them!

[kestrel404]

A powerful undead creation build uses masterspellthief and dread necromancer to send your caster level through the roof with a gestault. Something like Dread necro // wizard // spellthief 1 / bard / sublime chord.

Now your caster levels all stack and benifit from the dread necro control pool increase.

You get something like Cl 40 in EACH control pool and you can use fell animate to create zombie dragons to fill all of them!

Add ur-priest to the mix. They get CL = 1/2 total arcane caster level. I've got a gestalt build that gets a total undead pool of over a thousand thanks to the interaction between sublime chord, master spellthief and ur-priest.

[Gobidobo]

Wow, this would be ridiculously awesome, except the GM does not appear to be ignoring LA - in fact, from the above statement it sounds like LA is being applied such that LA + TOTAL HD == 16. So Black Ethergaunt is right out - which is too bad, because they're totally awesome. If I'm wrong, and you CAN apply LA to only one track of the Gestalt, then reduce the Psionic Artificer level by 4 and take this build, no question. It's far and away the most powerful (And Psionic Artificer 12 already has most of the good stuff, anyway)

However, if we're going on the assumption that LA is going to reduce the HD on the end product, there's only one choice - don't have any LA! Because seriously, losing HD in a format like this is really terribad.

Going on this assumption, here's my best no-LA build for you:

Race: Lesser Aasimar (+2 wis, +2 cha, no LA), plus whatever +0 LA templates you can find that will raise WIS or CHA.
Classes:
Druid 6/Planar Shepherd 10//Paladin 4/Cleric 2/Bone Knight 10//Dread Necromancer 2/Binder 4/Anima Mage 10

Feats you need: Nightbringer Initiate, Extend Spell, Persist Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persist)

This character could be considdered the "persistomancer", because you'll be using the 'persist spell' metamagic AT LEAST 6 times a day, on your choice of cleric, druid and dread necromancer spells up to 6th level (8th level for druid). From Anima Mage, you get 3 persist spell uses thanks to Vestige Metamagic (plus you get to bind 3 vestiges of up to 6th (or 7th with improved binding) level). From Paladin, Cleric and Dread Necromancer, you get 3+Cha mod Rebukes each! This gives you a total of 9+3*cha. Assuming you've got at least a 20 each in Cha (this should not be hard, and I'd expect it to be closer to 26), that gives you a total of at least 24 turn attempts, and at 7 turn attempts per free persist, that's at least 3 more persists, possibly more.

Do you know what ELSE this build is ridiculously good at? Creating undead. Specifically, you'll be able to controll around 200 hit dice of undead. Take the Undead Leadership feat and that number shoots up to almost 350.

As an example of what you can do with that many undead - take one of your 3HD undead followers. Make them a level 3 necropolitan silverbrow human bard with Subsonics, Song of the Heart and Dragonfire Inspiration and the Inspirational Boost spell. Huddle all of your undead around you at the beginning of the day and cast a Persisted Recitation (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20021103a) spell. Now have your necropolitan bard start singing at the top of his undead lungs. He's undead, he can keep that song up all day. Have all your undead be made by someone with the corpsecrafter feat that lets your undead deal extra cold damage (requires a 2 feat investment, but your undead can be created by one of your minions and controlled by you, so it doesn't need to be your 2 feats). In total, you can now have ~50 Zombie Lions (3HD, with pounce, weapon focus & multi-attack) that each can charge with +10 or so to hit for 3 attacks (claw/claw/bite), each of which doing about 1d6 + 3d6 fire + 1d6 cold + 2 damage. And you can have them ridden by another 50 level 1 Necropolitans Duskblades wielding lances and casting true strike on themselves, hitting for double damage (and they're also getting the +3d6 fire damage).

After that, you've still got about 150 HD of undead to play with. Just for example.

Holy bat, Crapman! That's awesome :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

Perhaps this will be character #2 right there. LOL

---- To be honest, I don't know what Black Ethergaunts, Thrallherd, Psionic Artificer are... :smallconfused: I guess I shall consult my good friend, Mr. Google... lol


I'm going to use the Quickling one that Xtomjames suggested, because that's right up my alley (I love playing quick & sneaky stuff, because I'm EXTREMELY mischievous lol) :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

.................... But it pisses me off that my friend's Fallen Astral Deva will be able to see me, regardless of the invisibility thing. :smallmad: That really chaps my behind. It's almost like he always has to one-up me (even though I know that's not really the case). :smallannoyed: Wish there were a way I could be invisible to things that can see invisible things. LOL Then it would truly be a rogue of rogues! :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:




Add ur-priest to the mix. They get CL = 1/2 total arcane caster level. I've got a gestalt build that gets a total undead pool of over a thousand thanks to the interaction between sublime chord, master spellthief and ur-priest.

What's Ur-Priest? & how would you add it to that? :smallconfused:


--- *sigh* I'm still new to making characters. I guess this explains some of the confusion. My GM is having me do this because he wants me to learn how to make my own thingies. lol






Also, my GM isn't dead set on sticking to his own rules. He will make exceptions if he feels like it.. Like my friend with the Astral Deva.. He is allowing them to make a Caigar Spirit-Cat.. Caigar are super strong cat-people... So the thing can shift in & out of the material world at will & is basically a ghost-cat.

My friend with the fallen astral deva also used a different percentage for the CR rating.. He said a CR of 8, halved would only be like 10%.. So now I'm all confused. :smallconfused:














Here's some things I've always wanted to play (within the given rules), but never figured out how or what I could do with them, or if they would be good to play for any reason at all... If you can think of something cool to do with any of 'em, then kudos to you. :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

Djanni/Genie or half Djinni/Djanni/Genie/WHATEVER!! (lol) --- Why: Granting wishes ability.. Um.. Yay. :smallbiggrin: lol

Doppleganger or Changeling.. Obviously for the shapeshifting ability. :smallsmile: I'd like to work in that "assume supernatural ability" to go along with the shapeshifting..

but.. the shapeshifting is really the only reason i wanted to play a doppleganger. if i could get something (that doesn't include being a druid) that had shapeshifting and or manipulate form, that would be cool. manipulate form would be cool on anything, though. :smallsmile:

Harpy.. Their songs are so darn captivating. :smallsmile:

Yuan-Ti/Sarrukh/Yuan-Ti Abomination/Naga - because they're so darned rotten & they qualify as scaled ones. lol Yay. :smallsmile:



and that's all i can remember right now. :smallsmile:

[faceroll]

Wow, this would be ridiculously awesome, except the GM does not appear to be ignoring LA - in fact, from the above statement it sounds like LA is being applied such that LA + TOTAL HD == 16. So Black Ethergaunt is right out - which is too bad, because they're totally awesome. If I'm wrong, and you CAN apply LA to only one track of the Gestalt, then reduce the Psionic Artificer level by 4 and take this build, no question. It's far and away the most powerful (And Psionic Artificer 12 already has most of the good stuff, anyway)

However, if we're going on the assumption that LA is going to reduce the HD on the end product, there's only one choice - don't have any LA! Because seriously, losing HD in a format like this is really terribad.

Going on this assumption, here's my best no-LA build for you:

Race: Lesser Aasimar (+2 wis, +2 cha, no LA), plus whatever +0 LA templates you can find that will raise WIS or CHA.
Classes:
Druid 6/Planar Shepherd 10//Paladin 4/Cleric 2/Bone Knight 10//Dread Necromancer 2/Binder 4/Anima Mage 10

Feats you need: Nightbringer Initiate, Extend Spell, Persist Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persist)

This character could be considdered the "persistomancer", because you'll be using the 'persist spell' metamagic AT LEAST 6 times a day, on your choice of cleric, druid and dread necromancer spells up to 6th level (8th level for druid). From Anima Mage, you get 3 persist spell uses thanks to Vestige Metamagic (plus you get to bind 3 vestiges of up to 6th (or 7th with improved binding) level). From Paladin, Cleric and Dread Necromancer, you get 3+Cha mod Rebukes each! This gives you a total of 9+3*cha. Assuming you've got at least a 20 each in Cha (this should not be hard, and I'd expect it to be closer to 26), that gives you a total of at least 24 turn attempts, and at 7 turn attempts per free persist, that's at least 3 more persists, possibly more.

Do you know what ELSE this build is ridiculously good at? Creating undead. Specifically, you'll be able to controll around 200 hit dice of undead. Take the Undead Leadership feat and that number shoots up to almost 350.

As an example of what you can do with that many undead - take one of your 3HD undead followers. Make them a level 3 necropolitan silverbrow human bard with Subsonics, Song of the Heart and Dragonfire Inspiration and the Inspirational Boost spell. Huddle all of your undead around you at the beginning of the day and cast a Persisted Recitation (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20021103a) spell. Now have your necropolitan bard start singing at the top of his undead lungs. He's undead, he can keep that song up all day. Have all your undead be made by someone with the corpsecrafter feat that lets your undead deal extra cold damage (requires a 2 feat investment, but your undead can be created by one of your minions and controlled by you, so it doesn't need to be your 2 feats). In total, you can now have ~50 Zombie Lions (3HD, with pounce, weapon focus & multi-attack) that each can charge with +10 or so to hit for 3 attacks (claw/claw/bite), each of which doing about 1d6 + 3d6 fire + 1d6 cold + 2 damage. And you can have them ridden by another 50 level 1 Necropolitans Duskblades wielding lances and casting true strike on themselves, hitting for double damage (and they're also getting the +3d6 fire damage).

After that, you've still got about 150 HD of undead to play with. Just for example.

Illegal build. Paladin has to be Lawful Good; Druid has to have netural in there somewhere. The only way to get that legal is to use a paladin from Dragon that's like Neutral Evil or Lawful Neutral or something.

[Gobidobo]

Illegal build. Paladin has to be Lawful Good; Druid has to have netural in there somewhere. The only way to get that legal is to use a paladin from Dragon that's like Neutral Evil or Lawful Neutral or something.

In Pathfinder, they have a class called antipaladin.. basically a paladin that's evil. :smallbiggrin:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/antipaladin

could use that. :)

Or slap a fallen template on it... or something similar.

[Gobidobo]

Oh.. Also.. My GM is going to send me something tonight that will help me in regards to how he's doing the character creation..

From the way my GM explained it to me, all the classes (up to 3) that you pick will be combined into one ultra-mega-class. You take all of the abilities of the classes you chose (all the bonuses to spot & listen & climb & so on & so forth) & then select the highest of the classes ability bonuses & you choose whatever class gives you more feats, you take the most feats out of the three, but not all feats of all 3 combined together.. And out of the feats you choose, you pick the best of the best ones to use- basically you get all the bonuses of being all 3 classes that you choose. So it's like making a normal 1 class character, except instead you can combine up to 3. I hope that makes sense.

If your class gets bonus feats (like Dodge, for example), then you will retain the bonus feats of all 3 classes used.. You also retain all skills of all 3 classes up to 16th level... Those don't count against your allotted skill points.

GM said that you start out with 10 feats + whatever bonus feats of the 3 classes you choose is higher.

you get abilities of all 3 classes .. for saves & stuff you get the higher of the three's ability... Like if you had a monk sorcerer rogue, you'd take the highest one's reflex for the saves & the rogue's armor class bonus, etc.. hope you can see what I'm saying. I'll upload the document he is gonna send me later, when I get it.

He also said that all of the base ability scores will start at 18 + whatever from templates used, your race & other bonuses you get from your classes.

One of his characters has 1000 HP & 50+ strength.. he's not adding that into the Level Adjustment. He said he's breaking some rules, but he doesn't care. LOL

If whatever base creature you're using doesn't have LA, then it'd go by the CR.. And you half both the CR & the LA, if it is an odd number, you take the lesser of the numbers (like if the CR is 7, then you'd take 3, instead of 4). In regards to HD, he said that you half the base creature HD & half the bonus dice, but you get all the goodies from your abilities & any bonuses you can work in there through feats & etc.

I hope you're getting what I'm saying. I'm not trying to be confusing. I apologize in regards to that.


So basically.. You mash everything together into 1 ultra-mega character. :)

The 16 HD for the Black Ethergaunt (for the Black Ethergaunt/Psionic Artificer/Thrallherder build) would become 8 HD.

:smallbiggrin:

[Fouredged Sword]

at that point just play a dijjin sha'iir//wizard//sorcerer and call it a day. Grant free wishes to your familier.

[kestrel404]

If whatever base creature you're using doesn't have LA, then it'd go by the CR.. And you half both the CR & the LA, if it is an odd number, you take the lesser of the numbers (like if the CR is 7, then you'd take 3, instead of 4). In regards to HD, he said that you half the base creature HD & half the bonus dice, but you get all the goodies from your abilities & any bonuses you can work in there through feats & etc.

...

The 16 HD for the Black Ethergaunt (for the Black Ethergaunt/Psionic Artificer/Thrallherder build) would become 8 HD.

Play the ethergaunt build. There can be no doubt, it's the best option.

And in regards to the Duid/Paladin build being illegal - I really don't think that the GM is going to care if you're playing a Lawful Evil druid (and it was specifically Paladin of Tyranny - the LE version of paladin, sinc the character must be evil and they get the best aura).