Registration

[Abrexa]

Does captcha have to be so obnoxious on this forum? I had real problems with reading it when I tried registering, it took me over a dozen attempts to enter - and I have only minor sight problems, I just imagine what anyone with worse sight must feel :smallfrown:

I wouldn't mind, normally, but two things made it worse. First, you already have extra layer of defence with OotS character image/are you a human question, and second, missing the captcha resets half of the fields in registration forum, making re-typing it really long and painful process. Can you change it to something simpler, or have it not reset fields for future forum members? Bots are better than humans when it comes to breaking really complicated captcha, so it's not like it will change much...

[NerfTW]

The only fields reset are the password and the three verification questions. I would hardly call this a "long and painful process", especially given that one is a large picture and another is a yes or no question that never changes. There aren't even that many fields to fill out. Yes, "half the fields reset", but that's because there's only about 8 fields to begin with.

[Fawkes]

To be fair, the captchas are really rough.

[Abrexa]

The only fields reset are the password and the three verification questions. I would hardly call this a "long and painful process",

I'm very glad you find yourself in such a great health, but what you just said greatly resembles asking someone in wheelchair why they find covering mere 8 steps a problem, after all, everybody can use stairs, right? :smallannoyed:


especially given that one is a large picture

I thought so too, until I had to type 'vaarsuvius' 8 times while remembering to not capitalize it :smallannoyed:


and another is a yes or no question that never changes.

Which is trivial to circumvent in a bot, as they will always unfallingly say 'yes' while humans can easily miss it.


There aren't even that many fields to fill out. Yes, "half the fields reset", but that's because there's only about 8 fields to begin with.

My point is, if you use safe passwords, there is about 60-80 characters to retype each missed time. Having it not reset, or using simpler captcha would allewiate this problem in one of two different ways, and not compromise security, IMHO, because bots don't find retyping tedious/time consuming at all. Therefore, re-typing does little to deter them, while creating genuine problems for real humans.

I'm called already each time my grandparents have to type captcha, as they genuinely can't do it, and the captcha here is by far one of the hardest I saw. I imagine they're not the only ones with such a problem, so I just thought I'd point possible improvement for future users.

[NerfTW]

Your password does not need to be 60-80 characters long. That's simply absurd. There is no reason to make it that long. 24 characters would take decades to crack as it is. You only have yourself to blame for that "problem". :smallsigh:

Are you going to tell us what, exactly, your "disability" is that prevents you from zooming in or enlarging the font size? I agree on the captcha, but the rest of your complaints really make ZERO SENSE, especially given your insistence that a "safe" password needs to take longer than the heat death of the universe to crack.

[Rae Artemi]

Your password does not need to be 60-80 characters long.

He was saying that, including retyping the password, you have to retype 60-80 characters in total, both passwords, answering the are you human question, identifying the character and typing in the captcha.

[Maxios]

I have horrible vision, to the point that when I'm not wearing my glasses everything that isn't right next to me is blurry. And yet, I managed to do the registration in one go. And my glasses were broken at the time, so everything was blurry while I was doing it.

[happyturtle]

Your password does not need to be 60-80 characters long. That's simply absurd. There is no reason to make it that long. 24 characters would take decades to crack as it is. You only have yourself to blame for that "problem". :smallsigh:

Are you going to tell us what, exactly, your "disability" is that prevents you from zooming in or enlarging the font size? I agree on the captcha, but the rest of your complaints really make ZERO SENSE, especially given your insistence that a "safe" password needs to take longer than the heat death of the universe to crack.

1. Other people's medical problems are none of your business.

2. Please do not put "disability" in quotes. Web accessibility is a major issue for many people with many different medical conditions, from impaired eyesight to cerebral palsy to paralysis. It's up to the Giant how accessible to make his website, but if users don't report their issues with it, he will hardly have the data he needs to do so.

3. Increasing font size doesn't improve the readability of a captcha image.

[Elder Tsofu]

1. Other people's medical problems are none of your business.

Actually, they are. If you make them your buissness or get them forced on you.


2. Please do not put "disability" in quotes. Web accessibility is a major issue for many people with many different medical conditions, from impaired eyesight to cerebral palsy to paralysis. It's up to the Giant how accessible to make his website, but if users don't report their issues with it, he will hardly have the data he needs to do so.
Indeed, it is good to report problems you have.


3. Increasing font size doesn't improve the readability of a captcha image.
But zooming does, to a certain degree, so I guess it's 1 point out of 2.

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv173/Tsofu/P-for-Private/Random%20stuff/namnls.png

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv173/Tsofu/P-for-Private/Random%20stuff/namnls2.png

[Abrexa]

He was saying that, including retyping the password, you have to retype 60-80 characters in total, both passwords, answering the are you human question, identifying the character and typing in the captcha.


1. Other people's medical problems are none of your business.

2. Please do not put "disability" in quotes. Web accessibility is a major issue for many people with many different medical conditions, from impaired eyesight to cerebral palsy to paralysis. It's up to the Giant how accessible to make his website, but if users don't report their issues with it, he will hardly have the data he needs to do so.

3. Increasing font size doesn't improve the readability of a captcha image.

Thank you both, you restored my faith in humanity. Indeed, my password is only 11 letters long, but when you add up all reset fields, you easily get to retyping 65+ letters each go, doing so being only tedious to humans, not bots, IMHO.

I wonder why people who pay the least attention to problem/are least affected are also the loudest :smallfrown:


I have horrible vision, to the point that when I'm not wearing my glasses everything that isn't right next to me is blurry. And yet, I managed to do the registration in one go. And my glasses were broken at the time, so everything was blurry while I was doing it.

Except, you registered more than two years ago. The system could have changed a dozen times since then. Even if it didn't, one try 2 years ago is nowhere near as good indication as dozen in last week.


Actually, they are. If you make them your buissness or get them forced on you.

But zooming does, to a certain degree, so I guess it's 1 point out of 2.

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv173/Tsofu/P-for-Private/Random%20stuff/namnls.png

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv173/Tsofu/P-for-Private/Random%20stuff/namnls2.png

Are you saying I forced my problems on anyone? :smallannoyed:

Besides, then, inform me, what the second letter is? B? H? 6? It could be even rotated and blurred C. Either of these works, and you don't get to retry.

[Rawhide]

You've got it all wrong. CAPTCHAs are designed to keep humans out, not bots, so it's working perfectly.


In all seriousness, yes, it is currently required, unfortunately, far too many bots slip by either one method. Unfortunately too, we don't have a great deal of control over the CAPTCHA, it's part of the system. That said, I will take a look at it and see if anything can be done to improve it.

These won't help you now for this site, but in places where you have these problems, you might consider a plugin/extension that will save a form for you, then it can automagically fill it out for you if you have to try it again. Also, I believe the note about using lowercase can be removed as that bug should have been fixed ages ago, the note was left in only as a precaution.

[Elder Tsofu]

Are you saying I forced my problems on anyone? :smallannoyed:
Nope, I was not referring to you in any way. I replied to a statement in Happyturtles' post.


Besides, then, inform me, what the second letter is? B? H? 6? It could be even rotated and blurred C. Either of these works, and you don't get to retry.

Looks like a 6 to me, or a rotated 9. It is easier to see in the zoomed image which is everything I claimed.

[Maxios]

Thank you both, you restored my faith in humanity. Indeed, my password is only 11 letters long, but when you add up all reset fields, you easily get to retyping 65+ letters each go, doing so being only tedious to humans, not bots, IMHO.

I wonder why people who pay the least attention to problem/are least affected are also the loudest :smallfrown:



Except, you registered more than two years ago. The system could have changed a dozen times since then. Even if it didn't, one try 2 years ago is nowhere near as good indication as dozen in last week.



Are you saying I forced my problems on anyone? :smallannoyed:

Besides, then, inform me, what the second letter is? B? H? 6? It could be even rotated and blurred C. Either of these works, and you don't get to retry.

Actually, I helped a friend join the forums a couple months ago, and it was the same registration process.

[Renegade Paladin]

I'm very glad you find yourself in such a great health, but what you just said greatly resembles asking someone in wheelchair why they find covering mere 8 steps a problem, after all, everybody can use stairs, right? :smallannoyed:
You seem to have no trouble typing moderately long posts. It's not unreasonable to assume, therefore, that you would similarly have no trouble typing your password and the word "yes."

[happyturtle]

There are several reasons why someone who has difficulty with forms could be capable of writing a post. One would be voice recognition software, which is naturally going to have an easier time with real words than with 'vaarsuvius' and a password. But another would be that doing something that is important to you, such as reporting a problem in hopes that it will get fixed, is always going to be less frustrating and require less effort than doing the same thing over and over and failing.

I'm bothered by the judgementalism in this thread. Most disabilities are invisible in RL. All disabilities are invisible on the internet. Being told, "You should be able to do x, because you can do y" or "Your problems don't matter because most people don't have them" are some of the most discouraging things that us disabled people hear, and we hear them all the time.

Please try and show some compassion, and try to extend to people the courtesy of believing that they know more about their own limitations than you do.

[Renegade Paladin]

There are several reasons why someone who has difficulty with forms could be capable of writing a post.
I did not say he couldn't possibly have trouble with one and not the other. I said it was a reasonable assumption for NerfTW to have made, so perhaps he should not be berated for it. Nothing in the OP suggests some sort of severe disability.

[CrimsonAngel]

Actually, the second letter in that image is a lowercase h. See, it has a tail and the bottom part doesn't meet. It's just warped a whole lot.

[irenicObserver]

I'm very glad you find yourself in such a great health, but what you just said greatly resembles asking someone in wheelchair why they find covering mere 8 steps a problem, after all, everybody can use stairs, right? :smallannoyed:

...what does this have to doing steps in a regristration, exactly?

EDIT:@happyturtle: 'cept we don't know that do we :annoyed: don't snap back, especially since the OP never stated anything to that fact, leaving us to assume and fall victim to this misunderstanding. Just because all disabilities are invisible on the internet does not mean we are at fault. It would be quite prudent to state that fact in the original post.

Rule of thumb: Do not get upset if you omit a vital piece of information.

[happyturtle]

The point is that Abrexa's medical information is not vital to reporting an accessibility issue with this site.

People with disabilities are discriminated against directly and indirectly every day, both in the physical world and on the internet. If someone wants to speak up for us, I think that should be encouraged. They shouldn't have to prove that they actually possess a disability themselves before being allowed to speak up. In fact, the people who are completely prohibited from registering because of the difficulty with this site aren't going to be able to post in this thread.

Abrexa did not claim a disability of any type, other than mildly impaired vision. He/she simply said 'I found this difficult. Disabled people may find it even more so.' In a perfect world, no one would have responded except for Rawhide, since this is a site admin issue that no one else is able to comment on. Instead, people jumped all over Abraxa for daring to make a complaint about an issue they didn't find complaint-worthy. It has been distasteful and very discouraging to read, and I can see that as a society, there is a long way to go before the disabled are really going to be seen and heard.

[bluewind95]

Usually, if the captcha is pretty warped or hard to read, you can request another one. I know I could not understand the one posted above. A little suggestion that may help (it has helped me, thus I share it) is checking the captcha before filling in the fields. If you're confident you'll get it, then fill it out and then fill out the fields. If not, request another captcha until you get one you think you can fill out. You won't have filled out any fields yet, so nothing will be getting reset. And if you're confident you can get the captcha right, then there are much less chances you'll be getting it reset anyways.

I really dislike captchas. I mean... I know why they're necessary, but that doesn't make me like them any more. I wish spam would just go away. Innocent paying for the guilty and all.

[irenicObserver]

I'm bothered by the judgementalism in this thread. Most disabilities are invisible in RL. All disabilities are invisible on the internet. Being told, "You should be able to do x, because you can do y" or "Your problems don't matter because most people don't have them" are some of the most discouraging things that us disabled people hear, and we hear them all the time.

Please try and show some compassion, and try to extend to people the courtesy of believing that they know more about their own limitations than you do.


The point is that Abrexa's medical information is not vital Abrexa did not claim a disability of any type, other than mildly impaired vision. He/she simply said 'I found this difficult. Disabled people may find it even more so.' In a perfect world, no one would have responded except for Rawhide, since this is a site admin issue that no one else is able to comment on. Instead, people jumped all over Abraxa for daring to make a complaint about an issue they didn't find complaint-worthy. It has been distasteful and very discouraging to read, and I can see that as a society, there is a long way to go before the disabled are really going to be seen and heard.


I'm very glad you find yourself in such a great health, but what you just said greatly resembles asking someone in wheelchair why they find covering mere 8 steps a problem, after all, everybody can use stairs, right? :smallannoyed:
Personally I don't really care at all whether or not this is complaint worthy, I have had difficulty with captchas too, does this mean I should immediately assume someone else having troubled is disabled in anyway and I am inadverdently insulting this person? Not with responses like that; withholding information and replying with such statements is not progressive towards solving the problem at all, whether or not he's suffering discrimination and "judgementalism". I honestly don't care about his medical information, and I am definitely not attacking this person (not intentionally anyway), if you choose to see it that way fine, don't respond with something like the above out of the blue. I don't mind disable people being spoken for, it's just that usually I know they are speaking in the first place.

[averagejoe]

In a perfect world, no one would have responded except for Rawhide

The Mod They Call Me: I tend to agree. He can still post here if he wishes, but for now there is no reason for this discussion to happen.