Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments

[Schadrach]

I have an interesting question I'd like some opinions on. A player uses Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments to paint a room on the inside of a wagon (assume for the moment that the wagon has a flat vertical wall). Does the room erupt out of the wagon, extending outwards and unbalancing the wagon? Does it exist somehow despite not physically being able to exist? Does it simply fail?

Now, for the more interesting question, what happens if the players does the exact same thing, but on the *outside* wall of the wagon? If the wagon is occupied or loaded at the time? If two players paint a room on opposite sides of the same wall in the same timeframe?

[Cog]

The emulsion flows from the application to form the desired object as the artist concentrates on the desired image.
"Flows from", not "flows into", as well as "desired object", singular. The painted image can't negate materials that are already present, such as the wall of the cart, while a whole room wouldn't be a valid example except in very particular cases of construction and if entirely unfurnished.

Edit: This post was based on the SRD material, but is apparently contradicted by the DMG. Carry on!

[Schadrach]

"Flows from", not "flows into", as well as "desired object", singular. The painted image can't negate materials that are already present, such as the wall of the cart, while a whole room wouldn't be a valid example except in very particular cases of construction and if entirely unfurnished.

The very next two sentences in the DMG description of the item:


One pot of Nolzur’s marvelous pigments is sufficient to create a 1,000-cubic-foot object by depicting it two-dimensionally over a 100-square-foot surface. Thus, a 10-foot-by-10-foot rendition of a pit would result in an actual 10-foot-by-10-foot-by-10-foot pit; a 10-foot-by-10-foot depiction of a room would result in a 10-foot-by-10-foot-by-10-foot room; and so on.

...which rather strongly implies using the pigments to paint architecture is permissible.

[CTrees]

I just assumed it would exist in an extradimensional space. You know, like a portable hole, a bag of holding, rope trick, a tardis, etc... bigger on the inside than the outside.

[Yorrin]

I'd just have it grow in whatever direction made the most sense... so the room would be added as a "growth" of sorts on the outside of the wagon. With an opening toward whichever side the painting was on (so, if pained from the inside there's be an opening in the side of the wagon that leads into the room, and if pained from the outside the room would have an opening from the front and there'd be whatever back wall was painted attached to the wagon).

[Fouredged Sword]

So what you need to do is be a fine creature and paint the inside of a thimble with a picture of a castile as a panorama.

Almost no paint used -> free castle.

[Cog]

Almost no paint used -> free castle.
As the quote from the DMG shows, items have to be painted to scale. 10' cubed of space wouldn't be much of a castle even for a pixie anyway.

[Fouredged Sword]

It is to scale, just also in perspective. Scale means it is smaller than it should be, perspective is that it has depth showing an object further away.

If you paint a little sword you get a little sword. If you paint a sword on a hill in the distance do you get a sword on hill in the distance, or a very little sword on a very little hill?

the issue is that created depth, potentialy in all directions, is difrent then scaleing.

[Cog]

the issue is that created depth, potentialy in all directions, is difrent then scaleing.
And if the pigments were described to work that way, then sure. They don't create at a distance, though; the actual pigments become the object. If you align your canvas with a distant hill and paint a giant's greatsword to scale with the hill, you'll end up with a toothpick all the same, while if you paint the hill yourself you soon run out of paint because you violate the volume limit. Note that a 10' painting of a pit becomes a 10' pit and so forth. Just because you can arrange paints on a surface to give the visual illusion of depth does not mean there's any actual depth. Ceci n'est pas une pipe.

[Fouredged Sword]

what if you painted a 1000ft deep 10ft x 10ft pit into a surface and something very small (from your prespective) on the bottom of the pit? What would you find when you got to the bottom? A tiny object or a large one?

[Cog]

what if you painted a 1000ft deep 10ft x 10ft pit into a surface and something very small (from your prespective) on the bottom of the pit? What would you find when you got to the bottom? A tiny object or a large one?
Once again, Pigments are limited to a 1000 sqft volume.

[CTrees]

As written, I think you'd need 100ea units of the pigment to go 10'x10'x1000' - volume is restricted. So, the sword at the bottom would likely be full sized.

"To scale" seems badly written, and what they meant seems to be "must be painted at 1:1 scale"