Best skillmonkey who doesn't need skills?

[Amnestic]

So after seeing a recent thread about listing all the languages (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208167), I considered a character who - completely mundanely - had learned every language there is to know (possible exceptions for secret languages, but haven't decided yet).

I have two questions then, to make the character.

Question 1) Does Able Learner apply to Speak Language? Able Learner says "all skill ranks cost 1 skill point", but Speak Language says "You can purchase Speak Language just like any other skill, but instead of buying ranks in it, you choose a new language that you speak."

I'm not sure what the correct RAW interpretation of this is.

Question B) What are some decent classes which have a moderate/strong int focus, decent skill points per level but can perform perfectly well without using skills? I was considering Swordsage since - by RAW - they get x6 skillpoints at 1st level, but I'm sure there are better options out there.

Any ideas?

[Zaq]

Aw, until I read Question B, I was all set to recommend Incarnates, since they have 2 + INT skills from a crappy list . . . and yet make some of the finest skillmonkeys you can find.

Not quite what you're looking for, though.

Anyway, Beguilers are pretty damn useful with just their spells, though obviously they benefit from stealth and social skills (since they're kind of made for exactly that). Likewise, if you take UMD, Artificers don't strictly NEED much else.

[ericgrau]

"just like any other skill" means you spend 2 skill points to get a rank if speak language is cross-class, and 1 skill point to get a rank if it's a class skill. The second part of that means replace the word "rank" with "language". So... I suppose as worded able learner technically doesn't work.

At first it seems like it should work anyway with any sane DM, but OTOH able learner doesn't affect max ranks so maybe it shouldn't necessarily be allowed to work to leave at least some advantage remaining to class skills.

Anyway the Loremaster PrC gets 4 + int skill points per level, has all knowledges, use magic device and speak language on his list, and you're a 20/20 casting int-focused wizard.

[Cerlis]

yes, if you look you will see that bards get Speak language as a class skill. this distinction means they can automatically learn a language with only one skill point. (and at 6+int skill points per lvl..... its pretty easy to get them all early on, at first lvl if you want). I'd also like to point out that with bardic music and their spells bards can easily contribute well. and if you take Bardic Knack instead of Bardic Knowledge you can use ALL skills as if you had ranks in them equal to half your bard lvl. Thats half your lvl but with a good int mod and putting your skills in the few that NEED a high roll, you can do pretty much everything .

[Arundel]

Slightly offtopic but I know there was a feat in a old (3.0?) book that was "Know all languages".


Polyglot [Epic]

Prerequisites
Int 25, Speak Language (five languages).
Benefit
The character can speak all languages. If the character is literate, he or she can also read and write all languages (not including magical script).


That is from the DnD wiki but I want to say the original feat was worded similarly.

[NNescio]

yes, if you look you will see that bards get Speak language as a class skill. this distinction means they can automatically learn a language with only one skill point. (and at 6+int skill points per lvl..... its pretty easy to get them all early on, at first lvl if you want). I'd also like to point out that with bardic music and their spells bards can easily contribute well. and if you take Bardic Knack instead of Bardic Knowledge you can use ALL skills as if you had ranks in them equal to half your bard lvl. Thats half your lvl but with a good int mod and putting your skills in the few that NEED a high roll, you can do pretty much everything .

Alternatively, Factotum.

(... if you are going for the "I sunk most of my skill points in Speak Language and yet I'm still a skilled master" route.)

[Vandicus]

While speak language is purchased like a skill, you don't buy ranks in them. Meaning its not possible to hit a max rank. :smallbiggrin: . Factotum, high int, Nymph's Kiss, Open Minded feat, bam you can get all languages pretty quickly.

[ericgrau]

That's exactly why you don't have the same drawback as other skills if you allow able learner to apply to speak language. I'm saying by RAW no to the OP's question, by DM fiat... maybe. It's not 100% clear that languages should be allowed for able learner by common sense b/c they lack the drawback that other skills have.

[Tvtyrant]

Is there not a Bard ACF that gives you half your level in skill points in every skill? Talya was talking about it earlier.

[Coidzor]

Question B) What are some decent classes which have a moderate/strong int focus, decent skill points per level but can perform perfectly well without using skills? I was considering Swordsage since - by RAW - they get x6 skillpoints at 1st level, but I'm sure there are better options out there.


Beguiler.

Factotum.

Wizard. :smalltongue:

Archivist. :smalltongue::smalltongue:

[Tenebris]

BTW, consider taking Master Linguist feat, if you haven't already. It let's you learn a new language every level. Also Nymph's Kiss feat, as mentioned before, will be useful.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Changelings from Eberron also gain speak language as a class skill, so spend one point per language instead of 2, IIRC there's also a feat in races of eberron that gives them extra languages known as they level up.

[deuxhero]

Note that Loremaster's "Bonus Languages" does not exclude secret ones and in fact explicitly says "any", which is neat, say take your pick of 2 secret ones.

[Eldariel]

Question 1) Does Able Learner apply to Speak Language? Able Learner says "all skill ranks cost 1 skill point", but Speak Language says "You can purchase Speak Language just like any other skill, but instead of buying ranks in it, you choose a new language that you speak."

I'm not sure what the correct RAW interpretation of this is.

Able Learner explicitly excludes Speak Language.

[Gnaeus]

Beguiler.

Factotum.

Wizard. :smalltongue:

Archivist. :smalltongue::smalltongue:

Truly. With the right spell selection (Knock, the summon monster reserve feat, maybe a spell to win social encounters) wizards and archivists can be excellent at the jobs that are normally skillmonkey territory, and they have lots of skill points too. The primary reason that they don't all do this is that if your party HAS a skillmonkey it is usually better to let them open the doors.

[Squiggles]

Magic of Faerun has a 1st level cleric spell called Wieldskill that grants you 1/2 a rank in any skill and a +10 competence bonus with it for 1 minute/level, range touch, you could abuse DMM for daily skill choices and coupled with the other nice skill based spells (Divine Insight from SpC) you'd have a wisdom based skillmonkey with little to no actual skill ranks.

Also an Eternal Wand of Wieldskill or just a plain old Wand of Wieldskill + UMD class would be glorious.

[Coidzor]

Is there not a Bard ACF that gives you half your level in skill points in every skill? Talya was talking about it earlier.

Bardic Knack ACF from the PHB II. And then the Jack of All Trades Feat if you don't want to have to put a point into every skill that's trained only.

It's good for if you have to be able to cover a number of rolls in a pinch after you hit mid-level, but it really begs for something like Divine Insight to buff the check, as it progresses slower than cross-class ranks.

[Morph Bark]

Alternatively, Factotum.

(... if you are going for the "I sunk most of my skill points in Speak Language and yet I'm still a skilled master" route.)

Only really works for Str- and Dex-based skill and Knowledges though.

[Godskook]

Marshal is a surprisingly good skill-monkey class, and will give you very strong non-rank bonuses to pretty much everything with about a 12 level investment(I forget how long it takes to get 4-6 minor Auras, 4 if you don't want Cha/Con auras, and really, who wants the Con aura).

[Glimbur]

Amusingly, Dragonfire Adept gets Speak Language as a class skill and has no particular need for their skill points(concentration is nice, but you can do without it especially if you're going full plate and tower shield anyway and therefore not casting in combat). I think they're only a 2+Int class though, so it's not ideal.

[MeeposFire]

Amusingly, Dragonfire Adept gets Speak Language as a class skill and has no particular need for their skill points(concentration is nice, but you can do without it especially if you're going full plate and tower shield anyway and therefore not casting in combat). I think they're only a 2+Int class though, so it's not ideal.

4+ actually. And they have a very nice list so their skill points will be used a lot.

[Draz74]

Bardic Knack ACF from the PHB II.

It's good for if you have to be able to cover a number of rolls in a pinch after you hit mid-level, but it really begs for something like Divine Insight Improvisation (SpC) to buff the check, as it progresses slower than cross-class ranks.
Fixed that for you.


Only really works for Str- and Dex-based skill and Knowledges though.

Not if you only want to be good at a skill 1/day. Then you can just take one rank in the skill, and you're pretty decent at it. Autohypnosis 1 rank ... Sense Motive 1 rank ...