What book to pick up outside of core?

[Talesin]

Hello playground,

I currently own the PHB, DMG and MM1 and i'm thinking of getting another book to use with my two gaming groups.

I game once a week as a player, we're currently running Paizo's Curse of the Crimson throne, and DM maybe once a year when we lose a certain combination of players. My second group I DM for and we play every few months for a couple of days at a time, we're currently running Keith Robinson's Cult of Fane and will be moving into an adventure I am preparing after we've finished that.

I am wondering what book people would recommend I buy. I'm not really looking for anything specific, in terms of I don't favour the book having more classes, spells or fluff about elves compared to anything else, which is why I am unsure as to what to buy.

Does anyone have any useful advice relating to which books they found the most useful/enjoyable to have at the gaming table. Money isn't really a huge factor in my decision as i'm willing to splash out for this and will obviously get extended use out of it.

I've seen a lot of free material, released by WotC on their website (don't have a link handy from brilliantgamologists as i'm on a different machine to the one I usually use), so I would rather stay away from material used there as I already use it.

Apologise for the wall of text for a relatively (or not as the case may be) simple question, but I wanted to attempt to set it into context.

[Diarmuid]

For a broad variety of options, you could try the PHB2 or Complete Adventurer, or something like the Magic Item or Spell Compendium.

Obviously the Spell Compendium will be more useful for casters, but it has spells for all casting classes in it (ok most, no new Duskblade spells).

The other Completes all focus on one archetype or another. Tome of Battle could be a good option as well if your group finds that melee usually plays a backseat to casters as it gives a lot of fun new options other than PA/Charge Fighter/Barb.

[LordBlades]

If you have to pick just one book, I'd advise either Spell Compendium (a lot of interesting options for spellcasters) or Tome of Battle (a completely new and awesome system for melee).

[Midnight_v]

If you have to pick just one book, I'd advise either Spell Compendium (a lot of interesting options for spellcasters) or Tome of Battle (a completely new and awesome system for melee).

I was going to second the tome of battle but I guess this means I'm saying +3, its all pretty useful for melee.
Aside from that... I like the spell compendium, it depends somewhat on your optimizations level. So +2 on that one.

The Complete champion has some interesting things for everbody in core. Interesting varying from char to char. So I'll throw that in the ring, also.

[ArcanistSupreme]

I concur with ToB and Spell Compendium. Magic Item Compendium is another gem.

[Tvtyrant]

Depends on what you want. The complete series tend to be all over the place in power, while Magic of Incarnum and Tomb of Battle have classes mostly in the same power level and system type.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Depends on what you want. The complete series tend to be all over the place in power, while Magic of Incarnum and Tomb of Battle have classes mostly in the same power level and system type.

While Incarnum is hands-down amazing, it may be somewhat difficult to learn, especially with a group used to core-only. Also, Soulborn=/=Incarnate or Totemist.

[Tvtyrant]

While Incarnum is hands-down amazing, it may be somewhat difficult to learn, especially with a group used to core-only. Also, Soulborn=/=Incarnate or Totemist.

Hence "mostly" :P

[Midnight_v]

Magic Item Compendium is another gem
I find this quite useful IF you're letting the players shop as much as they want. . . and use some of those armor sets etc.

[Greenish]

I'm a Tome of Battle fanboy, so a vote for that. You might also consider Expanded Psionics Handbook (if you don't use SRD, maybe even if you do) or Eberron Campaign Setting if you don't have a firmly rooted one on your own.

[faceroll]

I recommend Expanded Psionics Handbook, Spell Compendium, Tome of Battle, and Player's Handbook II.

Lots of classes, and two new sets of mechanics (psionics, initiatior classes).

I'm really fond of Lords of Madness, too.

[Vladislav]

If you want to expand your gaming experience without changing it dramatically, the first book to get outside core is PHB2. Four new classes, mostly well-designed and well-balanced, new spells, new options and features for existing classes, it's all good.

If you want more of a dramatic change, get ToB. It completely changes the way you view combat.

Complete Champion is pretty good too. I'd recommend against Spell Compendium, because w/o anything to counterbalance it, it's just more power to the casters. Magic Item Compendium is mostly good, but some stuff is too easily abusable, so don't get this until you have explored more options and have a good grasp of what works and what doesn't.

[Ekul]

Player's Handbook II is great, Tome of Battle is fun, Spell Compendium is also good.

[Eldariel]

Tome of Battle: It is the single greatest increase in combat fun in the game. It offers a more fluent, varied melee combat system, a bunch of useful feats and some of the best balance WoTC managed to churn out over the years too. Easy system, too, while still entirely distinct from any kinds of spellcasters and very clearly "mundane" (outside the two magical disciplines which, obviously, are available to the class that can fill the "swordmage" niché if he so desires).

Spell Compendium: It makes spellcasting of the half-casters (Paladin, Ranger, Assassin, etc.) worth a ton more. They get some unique spells instead of superlate Cleric/Druid ones, and those of course synergise better with the classes' abilities. It also adds some more versatility to caster (not that they need it but more options is always more fun) and enhances the game quite a bit.

Complete Scoundrel: Lots of fun with skill monkeys, what can I say? I'm a sucker for skill tricks too; they're just awesome, at an agreeable price and quite useful while far from broken.

Magic Item Compendium: If you don't like designing a ton of new magic items yourself, this does the job for you. Basically anything you could ever want, conveniently priced and varied enough to keep itemizing interesting.


Other books, Complete Mage & Complete Champion are both pretty good, various Faerun books (Unapproachable East, Shining South, Champions of Ruin) are excellent for non-setting specific use and Heroes of Horror, Heroes of Battle, Dungeonscape, Cityscape and the various environmental books (Frostburn, Sandstorm, Stormwrack) are decent. PHBII has something for everyone and then Races of-books are pretty nice especially for giving the races more depth (Races of the Wild and Races of Stone in particular I liked; finding the mindset for playing an Elf or a Dwarf or a Halfling or a Goliath).

[Keld Denar]

I like MIC. I love the whole 3 charges/day, with 1, 2, and 3 charge options. It adds a level of resource management fun to all characters equally. There is a lot of stuff in there that helps out melee, ranged, and casters alike. I also like the fact that whole lot of it is cheap, its also rather limited. The DMG has a lot of bulky continuous items that generally cost more than they are worth, or 1/day items that, due to the quadratically scaling formula, aren't that good and aren't worth nearly what the book says they are worth (Circlet of Blasting, I'm looking at you!). MIC has a lot of rather cheap items that are fun, interesting, and moderately useful. Gloves that let you boost your CL by 1, but only for 1st level spells? Thats an extra Magic Missile a couple times a day. Bracers that extend your reach for 3 rounds/day? Better not use them all in one combat. Gloves that give you a luck reroll on 1 attack per day? Thats pretty handy (pun intended). Anklets that give you short range tactical teleporation options? Wonderful.

Don't think of MIC as a bunch of underpriced and overpowered stuff. Think of it as appropriately priced, and most of the stuff in the DMG as overpriced.

I mostly love it because outside of suppliments like ToB and MoI, most non-casters have absolutely nothing to do with their swift actions. MIC fixes that and makes players have to make choices on which swift action magic item to activate on any given turn. Options make the game better.

[Morbis Meh]

All of the books that have been suggested are fantastic, I am a huge fan of ToB, but I noticed you are looking for something with a little more Elvish flair, so might I suggest: The Races of the Wild, complete with more elven goodness as well as some other races and classes.

[Psyren]

While the XPH has some nice stuff, if you're on a budget you can safely skip it because most of it is on the SRD. Ditto for UA.

[Talesin]

A lot of people championing the three books I was looking at, Tome of Battle, Magic Item Compendium and Spell Compendium. The problem i've got is trying to get one i'm going to use a lot.

I'm thinking Tome of Battle as it seems a lot of fun for melee classes and could definitely be useful in making some of my encounters a little more interesting when I DM. Also given my DM has given the wizard some nerfs i'm not sure he'd be all that happy if I started requesting lots of spells from the spell compendium so I will probably pick up the MiC or PHB2 next.

Thanks for the replies, been a big help

[Greenish]

I noticed you are looking for something with a little more Elvish flairThat's precisely what the OP said he's not doing. :smalltongue:

[Jopustopin]

Ditto on ToB. My Sig says it all.

[big teej]

I can't recall exactly what I got my hands on first after the core books.

but, if given the option to expand again.

I'd likely expand into the other monster manuals.

that said, of my collection, my favorite/most used books hands down are.

Races of Stone
Arms and Equipment Guide
Player's Handbook II

as a DM, I love the Book of Vile Darkness.

[Metahuman1]

Love the Tome of battle.

Magic Item Compendium has neat toys for everyone.

Spell compendium helps the casters greatly.

Psionics and Incarnum are good I'm told, but I don't have them and don't know how to use them.

[Lastgrasp]

If you are willing to do some conversion Advanced Players Guide is quite good from paizo. Six new base classes, spells, magic items, feats, variant systems, etc. Some work might be needed to convert.

[shadow_archmagi]

MiC is a must have, simply because of the improved random loot tables.

Tome of Battle is nice, but it can be difficult to integrate.

I'd recommend Psionics, but honestly there is no reason to buy a psionic book when the SRD has it all for free.

Incarnum is definitely fun, but it takes awhile to learn, and it isn't one of the books I see constantly referred to at our table-

Spell Compendium is another solid choice. You can never have too many available spells.

[Amnestic]

If you are willing to do some conversion Advanced Players Guide is quite good from paizo. Six new base classes, spells, magic items, feats, variant systems, etc. Some work might be needed to convert.

Isn't all of that stuff on the Pathfinder SRD though? If you're on a budget, probably best to spend money on stuff you can't get free legally :smalltongue:

[Elboxo]

Book of Vile Darkness
>:D