An intelligent runestaff?

[Karakami]

Hi,
Im new with the game, but while skimming the books i noticed the Intelligent Items and recalled that there where things like Runestaffs.

Well. My questions are, 1. can a Runestaff be an intelligent item? 2. Can an intelligent item cast Spells? 3. Can an item familiar cast Spells? Be a Runestaff? Cast Spells from a Runestaff, from "itself"?

Can a Runestaff be are Runesword? Or Spear? Cloth even? etc.

Karakami

[Yorrin]

1. Theoretically, yes. But actually obtaining an intelligent runestaff would be... atypical. You'd want to beg/bribe your DM for one.
2. Some can. But usually said item can only cast out of a very specific list of spells in the intelligent items section, rather than any spells stored in the item itself.
3. A runsetaff can be an item familiar, I suppose, and an item familiar can cast spells as per the rules under that feat. Similarly to intelligent items it's usally not "from itself" though, unless your DM rules otherwise for some reason.

As for the forms it can take, while theoretically they're always staves, I could definitely see a DM allowing other forms for them.

[Karakami]

Thanks, i'll see what I can do on that regard.

Somehow this item familiar thing got me hooked....
Would spell and feats for familars also effect item familiars?
Something like Imbue familiar with spell ability or Spell liked familiar and the like.
Would Enhance Familiar work on the Item familiar? Or on the wielder (you)?

Karakami

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

An item familiar is not a familiar, so spells that specifically target your familiar will not work on it. You can however have a regular familiar in addition to your item familiar. The familiar-specific spells cannot be used on yourself unless your character is somehow another creature's familiar, in which case only that creature could cast those spells on you.

An item familiar can be granted the Spell Use special ability, and it can cast your invested spell for you. Keep in mind it needs a minimum Int or Cha score of (10 + spell level) to cast that.

You can upgrade an item familiar just like it were any other magic item, as though you possessed the proper feats to do so. You could simply spend gold and XP to upgrade whatever intelligent item special abilities you want to give it, so long as you meet all the other prerequisites to do so. For example, you could give it Cause Fear at will and it could activate that every round, though it wouldn't be very useful in the higher levels.

Magical rods that are also weapons are typically restricted to bludgeoning weapons, such as a light mace. However, you could upgrade it to a +1 Morphing Light Mace, so it could change into any other light weapon at will.

A Runestaff specifically allows the user to spend his own spell slots to cast the spells contained therein, so unless the item itself could gain spell slots it could not activate itself. However, other items with activated abilities could reasonably activate themselves, such as a Ring of Invisibility for example.

[Tvtyrant]

You could have your Imp familiar use your item familiar (Rod of Thunder and Lightning say), which would be pretty cool. Maybe role play them squabbling amongst themselves.

[Karakami]

Hmm....
So spells that specifically target a familiar dont work --- does feats work?
Spell liked familiar for example? (most likely not, just asking)

Since a item familiar can cast spells (stored spell) is it a spellcaster?

If so:

The Runestaff
...
When an arcane spellcaster is attuned to a runestaff, she can substitute any of the spells stored in the runestaff for a prepared spell or spell slot of equal or greater level. She must have the spell on her spell list and be of sufficient level to cast it, though she need not know it or have it in her spellbook. ....

Does an item familiar has a spell list (it use spells from master spell list)?
And it cast that spell at master lvl.

Since the familiar gets 1 stored spell (actally 3, 2 from the spells 2 lvl lower), can it use that stored spell to activate a runestaff spell?

What counts as Spellslot for an item?
Spell Storing = Spellslots?
Ring of Spell Storing = Spellslots?
Does the wizardry Ring stores the spells (therefore gives the item "wizardry Ring" spellslots)?

Karakami

[Yuki Akuma]

An item familiar is not a familiar. Anything - spell, feat, magic item - that targets familiars will not work on one.

[Karakami]

The sentence:
"Since a item familiar can cast spells (stored spell) is it a spellcaster?"
is meaning the special ability of an item familiar (Invest Spell Slots + Spell Use).

That spells and feats dont work on item familiars I get now. thx.:smallsmile:

Karakami

[Yuki Akuma]

The ability to cast a spell does not make you a spellcaster.

You need to take levels in a spellcasting class for that.

Which an intelligent item could do, but you'd likely need to take Leadership as well in that case, and it might not work as an item familiar if it gains its own XP.

[Karakami]

Leadership gants level in spellcasting for intelligent items?
How does that work?

[Yuki Akuma]

Well, no, basically you'd be taking it as a cohort, which means it gets class levels (and it can take class levels, because it has an Intelligence score).

But I'm not entirely sure that would work and I doubt many DMs would allow it. :smallwink:

[Zale]

You could have your Imp familiar use your item familiar (Rod of Thunder and Lightning say), which would be pretty cool. Maybe role play them squabbling amongst themselves.

I love this idea. I really do. :smallsmile:

[Karakami]

So I can make a +1 morphing Quaterstaff item familiar (which is intelligent), inscribe runes on it as it is created (runestaff), use it as cohort (a Horse can be a cohort so why not a intelligent weapon?) - which makes it, when the master is lvl 20th, a 18th lvl caster (and can therefore use lvl 9th spells...) - and let it use the runes inscribes on it?
2x Increased Sapience and that thing is near as good as the "master" (if caster).

Did I get that wrong? (does an Item Familiar even has lvls?)

[Yorrin]

So I can make a +1 morphing Quaterstaff item familiar (which is intelligent), inscribe runes on it as it is created (runestaff), use it as cohort (a Horse can be a cohort so why not a intelligent weapon?) - which makes it, when the master is lvl 20th, a 18th lvl caster (and can therefore use lvl 9th spells...) - and let it use the runes inscribes on it?
2x Increased Sapience and that thing is near as good as the "master" (if caster).

Did I get that wrong? (does an Item Familiar even has lvls?)

Well... Item Familiars as cohorts is not something that has official rules for it, but if you've enchanted it as a runestaff in addition to the ridiculousness that is item familiars I'd assume it would have some level adjustment for the purpose of it's cohort level. So you might not get all the way up to 9th level spells.

Note that this all involves taking two of the most ridiculous feats in the game (I've seen Leadership called the most powerful feat in the game and a lot of people/DMs think item familiar is overpowered/unbalanced/whatever), so combining them.... you'd need a very generous DM who is comfortable with making up rules to accommodate a new idea.

[Karakami]

ok,
dont worry i dont even plan on trying to use that thing. I just saw the feats and the options and wanted to check if that idea would work.

So with both eyes of the DM stiched together it would work.:smallsmile:

Good enough for me.
Thanks for the answers for a newbie who is just beginning to pick things up.

Karakami

[absolmorph]

Well... Item Familiars as cohorts is not something that has official rules for it, but if you've enchanted it as a runestaff in addition to the ridiculousness that is item familiars I'd assume it would have some level adjustment for the purpose of it's cohort level. So you might not get all the way up to 9th level spells.

Note that this all involves taking two of the most ridiculous feats in the game (I've seen Leadership called the most powerful feat in the game and a lot of people/DMs think item familiar is overpowered/unbalanced/whatever), so combining them.... you'd need a very generous DM who is comfortable with making up rules to accommodate a new idea.
No rules need to be made up.
The level of cohort you can attract? That's the max level. You can have a cohort of a lower level (also, you don't necessarily get all of the followers, that's also the max you attract).
Just because a clause almost never gets used doesn't make it any less part of the rules :smalltongue:

[Karakami]

Moment.... a cohort gets class levels? Means feats as well? (a Familiar for a Wizard/Sorcerer?) Ability bonuses? PrC?
Where can i look up the rules on cohort, regarding this point?

Karakami

[Yuki Akuma]

...What exactly do you mean?

If you mean "cohort" in the sense of the guy you get from the Leadership feat, then yes, of course he gains levels. It says so right there in the feat description.

[Yorrin]

::snip::

Right. What I'm saying is as a DM I'd want to add a level adjustment to the Runestaff Item-Familiar Cohort. Just offhand I'd say it'd be a +4 or so. It's the same sort of ruling as when WoTC decided that a Paladin's special mount would get a +2LA for the purposes of being a cohort. It's trying to avoid the uber-ally gained through feats alone.