Stupid ToB Question

[DeadManSleeping]

Okay, I've been out of 3.5 for a while, but I'm coming back into it, and now I'm looking at the Tome of Battle. I like it, but I have a question that will probably seem silly to all of you.

-What do the 'associated weapons' have to do with a style? I know that swordsages get Weapon Focus with one of their styles' weapons, but that's it! Do these have any purpose other than flavor?

Also, are there any sorts of options for becoming a Martial Adept with ranged weapons (other than the one throwing PrC)? Archers need love!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Associated weapons are mostly just for flavor.

A Warblade focused toward archery is actually pretty good. He can get (Greater) Weapon Specialization/Focus, Ranged Weapon Mastery (PH2), and focus on boosts and counters for his maneuvers. A Fighter is probably the best archer class for dealing damage in the low to mid levels, and a Cloistered Cleric is almost as good as the Fighter early on and ends up being the absolute best archer in the higher levels. You could also go Swordsage/Soulknife/Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) with TWF and be extremely capable at archery with plenty of boosts and counters.

[Eldariel]

Okay, I've been out of 3.5 for a while, but I'm coming back into it, and now I'm looking at the Tome of Battle. I like it, but I have a question that will probably seem silly to all of you.

-What do the 'associated weapons' have to do with a style? I know that swordsages get Weapon Focus with one of their styles' weapons, but that's it! Do these have any purpose other than flavor?

Not really; few feats and Discipline-specific classes care (Shadowblade & Bloodclaw Master alongside Blade Meditation off the top of my head) but mostly they're for the fluff.


Also, are there any sorts of options for becoming a Martial Adept with ranged weapons (other than the one throwing PrC)? Archers need love!

Well, Tiger Claw maneuvers "Dancing Mongoose" and "Raging Mongoose" and Diamond Mind maneuver "Time Stands Still" are the offensive ones that work with bows. There's also Blood in the Water and Giant's Stance-stances. Other than that, maneuvers that don't involve attacks (tons of White Raven ones and some Iron Heart, for example) work.

Mostly, it's unsupported but there's just enough material to throw together a beastly Warblade Archer (I'd know; I've done more work on those than probably anyone). They're rather late bloomers, being mostly Fighter Archers with better skills and few extra tricks like instant movement early game, but once you hit 5th level (level 10-11, generally; you want to multiclass already just for the proficiencies and class skills to raise the cap) maneuvers you're in business. Fully decked out build would be Ranger 2/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Warblade 6/Eternal Blade 10; gets lots of cool stuff over the levels and caps out at 9 base attacks per round. This quickly turns into ~50 attacks or more depending on how much effort you put into this "nova". Just plain Ranger 2/Warblade 18 would work though (Warblade lacks bow proficiencies so you generally want to dip something; Crusader has them but lacks the disciplines with bow-usable maneuvers while SS's medium BAB is quite the hurdle when primarily not attacking with Strikes).

There's a lot of homebrew on ToB archery since it was so obviously neglected though and I'd look at "Falling Star" in its various guises (I don't like it too much, it's magical), "Iron Rain" and various other homebrew Archery disciplines. There's also classes like Sublime Way Ranger (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19519074/Sublime_Way_Variant_Ranger) further enhancing this package.

[Cyrion]

There are a few feats and maneuvers that work specifically with the associated weapons. I've reflavored these without difficulty, and I don't see any particular reason that you couldn't include the weapons that aren't included in any of the disciplines in the discipline you think most appropriate.

[agahii]

I'd start Warblade and go kensi, weapon enchants seem like the only good things for bow users. Would be cool to have a hank's bow as your chosen weapon.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I'd start Warblade and go kensi, weapon enchants seem like the only good things for bow users. Would be cool to have a hank's bow as your chosen weapon.

But by RAW, the special abilities only work if your name is Hank. :smallcool: And you don't have ride as a class skill.

[Tvtyrant]

I wonder if you could justify weapon focus: Animal Companion. Then dual wield hawks at people.

[The Dark Fiddler]

(Warblade lacks bow proficiencies so you generally want to dip something; Crusader has them but lacks the disciplines with bow-usable maneuvers while SS's medium BAB is quite the hurdle when primarily not attacking with Strikes).

Swordsage also lacks bow proficiency, IIRC.

[navar100]

Associated weapons are mostly irrelevant. You can use every maneuver with any weapon all the time.

Associated weapons only matter for particular class abilities of the swordsage and a few feats in the book.