Player wants an "impervious" character.

[TroubleBrewing]

I realize how vague this sounds, but I have a player who is new to 3.5, and is wanting a character who is "impervious to everything, even magic."

Now, for this game, I've banned Tier 1 classes, which would be the easiest way of making such a thing.

I also realize that a character of this type is incredibly boring. It's all well and good to be able to soak everything, but in my experience, devoting all of your resources to passive stuff leaves you pretty short-handed when it comes to offensive stuff.

Any ideas on how to fix this problem, or to build such a character? My initial thoughts were to build a typical Sorcadin; high saves, spellcasting capabilty, heavy armor, AC in the 50's, etc. This is a 10th level game, so most builds will be hitting their sweet spots soon.

[JaronK]

A Learnean Lumi is virtually impossible to kill, but starts out at ECL 10. So, no class levels that way. But it grants decent two weapon fighting abilities, and you simply can't die except to disintegrate. If he then takes Warblade levels for Iron Heart Surge, he's almost unstoppable.

JaronK

[Cofniben]

Tell them too bad and just make a normal character so then it can be fun and not just boring. Unless this is for power gamers, then never mind.

[HappyBlanket]

Tell them too bad and just make a normal character so then it can be fun and not just boring. Unless this is for power gamers, then never mind.

"Make a normal character so it isn't boring..." Sounds contradictory... And kinda counter intuitive, really.

I personally applaud that he's not letting the system he's been provided with limit his imagination, which is more than what more experienced players can say for themselves. It's unfortunate to see that his concept isn't mechanically useful, however.

Inform the player about your concerns regarding his character's usefulness in combat, and work out something he can do. I'm not entirely familiar with Barbarians, but I believe there's some PrC or variant that makes you un-killable or something, as long as you're raging.

[NNescio]

"Make a normal character so it isn't boring..." Sounds contradictory... And kinda counter intuitive, really.

I personally applaud that he's not letting the system he's been provided with limit his imagination, which is more than what more experienced players can say for themselves. It's unfortunate to see that his concept isn't mechanically useful, however.

Inform the player about your concerns regarding his character's usefulness in combat, and work out something he can do. I'm not entirely familiar with Barbarians, but I believe there's some PrC or variant that makes you un-killable or something, as long as you're raging.

Frenzied Berserker. Of course, said class can also potentially TPK the whole party if he 'accidentally' takes some damage from something like say, a trap. It also has some glaring weaknesses that can be exploited by certain spells (or bags of marbles), which is actually a good thing, as this provides the party with some means to control him.

[candycorn]

There's Defensive, and there's unkillable.

It's doable.

Human Divine Minion 1 / (Rogue/Warlock) 1 / MoMF 7 / (Rogue/Warlock) +X

The concept is to UMD scrolls of Favor of the Martyr, and wildshape into forms that have regeneration. You become immune to most damage. Get Energy resistance for the types you still are vulnerable to.

Now, you just need to worry about saves, but you should have a good Con, decent Will saves, and that makes you a tough nut to crack.

[DeAnno]

If the DM would houserule some other way to take the Initiate of Mystra feat (with Cleric banned you cant take it by RAW), perhaps with a Favored Soul, he could try a Cheater of Mystra build. Those are actually fairly practical as far as indomitability goes.

[molten_dragon]

'Impervious to everything, even magic' is pretty hard to do in D&D, and most of the methods of doing so could be kind of confusing for a new player, as they can get somewhat complex. There's a couple of things I can think of that have sort of that feeling that he might enjoy.

One would be (as was already mentioned) a frenzied berserker. He'd be a good damage dealer and while frenzying he would be extremely hard to kill. If you're worried about him wigging out and killing the party, just have him dip Warblade at the appropriate point (9th level) and pick up Iron Heart Surge. Then, he can get out of frenzy whenever he wants to.

Another option would be playing a Ruby Knight Vindicator, tweaked to fit a favored soul rather than a cleric. He's have pretty good saves across the board, and with a spell list full of useful buffs, could make himself fairly invulnerable. He wouldn't do tons of damage, but he'd be an effective tank and battlefield controller with the right feat choices.

[Cerlis]

well are there any golems you could have at that level? they are immune to magic, have high hp and DR and are usually immunte to most things that require a fort save i think.


Another thing is to explain for fairness sake he cant physically be unstoppable, but ni-unstoppable. a Psychic warrior can grow several times his size. gain damage reduction, heal himself, become immune(or resistant) to certian elemental types, and even has the Immovable Power.

Could even throw in some Jade Phoenix Psychic to gain stances and manuevers that give damage reduction and that Juggernaut feel

[Reaver225]

He's cursed to be permanently ethereal and a walking Anti Magic Field.

An Epic wizard did it - Nailed to the Aether.

No interaction apart from talking and a blurry shape.

[Elric VIII]

I'm going to once again plug one of my favorite classes: Bone Knight. Over the course of 10 levels you gain most of the abilities of being an undead with none of the drawbacks.

You can enter either as a normal fallen Paladin (regaining Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, spellcastin, and a Skeletal Mount that gains bonuses based on your combined BK and Paladin level) or one of the variant evil Paladins.

You can enter via Paladin 4 and at level 4 of the class you get immunity to nonlethal damage at level 4 (EL 8) so if you start as a Trollblooded Human you are essentially immune to damage that isn't fire or acid. Coupled with Divine Grace you are well equipped to make your saves vs spells.

You eventally gain immunity to disease, poison, stunning, nonlethal damage, sleep, paralysis, fatigue, exhaustion, ability damage to physical abilities, ability drain, energy drain, death from massive damage, critical hits, and sneak attack.

[Fizban]

Get Mettle, Evasion, spell resistance, and temporary hp along with some high saves. So, some sort of Crusader/Rogue/Paladin with an SR race and Stone Power? With high enough saves you should take almost no effect from any spell or supernatural ability, and if you find a way to pump up your SR you can negate some stuff that way as well (I think there might be a couple items that give you a short duration boost). Probably put the rest of your optimization skills to the test in order to make him lethal, but you'd have some maneuvers to work with. If you can somehow spare the feats, you can get your shield bonus to touch AC and to resist trips and other combat maneuvers.

Hellbreaker's pretty good (Fiendish Codex II) If you don't want to use Crusader. You don't have a delayed damage pool or DR maneuvers, but you still get Mettle and you can heal as a swift action every round for several rounds each combat. Extremely easy to enter, just need BAB and Power Attack if I remember right (and alignment). Pious Templar also gives Mettle pretty quick, but I'd take Hellbreaker over it even for dipping. It does get some DR/-, but unless you stack it with Adamantine armor and pump it with feats, it won't get high enough to be very effective.

Do some reading on soulmelds maybe? It's really hard to do if you're not actually a melshaper, but you can get a lot of defenses that way (fortification, miss chances, damage reduction, energy resistances, SR, basically everything under the sun). That'd be a reaaaaaaly steep learning curve for a new player though, and if you're dumping all your stuff into not dying then there's no way you're gonna kill stuff as a meldshaper.

[Cerlis]

Get Mettle, Evasion, spell resistance, and temporary hp along with some high saves. So, some sort of Crusader/Rogue/Paladin with an SR race and Stone Power? With high enough saves you should take almost no effect from any spell or supernatural ability, and if you find a way to pump up your SR you can negate some stuff that way as well (I think there might be a couple items that give you a short duration boost). Probably put the rest of your optimization skills to the test in order to make him lethal, but you'd have some maneuvers to work with. If you can somehow spare the feats, you can get your shield bonus to touch AC and to resist trips and other combat maneuvers.

Hellbreaker's pretty good (Fiendish Codex II) If you don't want to use Crusader. You don't have a delayed damage pool or DR maneuvers, but you still get Mettle and you can heal as a swift action every round for several rounds each combat. Extremely easy to enter, just need BAB and Power Attack if I remember right (and alignment). Pious Templar also gives Mettle pretty quick, but I'd take Hellbreaker over it even for dipping. It does get some DR/-, but unless you stack it with Adamantine armor and pump it with feats, it won't get high enough to be very effective.

Do some reading on soulmelds maybe? It's really hard to do if you're not actually a melshaper, but you can get a lot of defenses that way (fortification, miss chances, damage reduction, energy resistances, SR, basically everything under the sun). That'd be a reaaaaaaly steep learning curve for a new player though, and if you're dumping all your stuff into not dying then there's no way you're gonna kill stuff as a meldshaper.

well the benefit of a meldshaper is his essentia changing.Keep your defenses up and if say, you arent fighting a spell caster, move your essentia from your spell resistance and energy resistance, to attack and damage rolls.

though of course, like probably any build, you'd still be hindered by the fact that you are focusing on defense and have fewer offensive melds . I suppose one thing would be to play totemist. since almost every one of theirs grants a natural or special attack , regardless of the essentia related boost.

[Vladislav]

I suggest the Abjurant Champion PrC from Complete Mage. It goes well with Sorcadin - can enter as Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 6; provides nice AC bonuses and can cast low-level Abjuration spells (Shield, Protection from Evil, Protection from Arrows, Resist Energy, etc.) as swift action.

[Tenebris]

Pretty high level solution, but...

Allow him to take the Illithid monster class levels, then Illithid Savant. Feed him with the Tarrasque (for Regeneration special quality) and some Pale Master (for Tough as Bone class feature). That's it... Immortality. Somehow throw in a divine rank 0 and he'll unstoppable, maybe except for the "Unname" spell.

EDIT: If later the player will be driving you insane, remember - you are the DM, you brought it on yourself.

[Greenish]

I suggest the Abjurant Champion PrC from Complete Mage. It goes well with SorcadinWell, yeah, it's part of the standard sorcadin build.

You enter with pal2/sorc4/spellsword1, though.

[TroubleBrewing]

Thanks for all the great suggestions! I'll respond to as many as I can.

-I'm trying to avoid Incarnum with new players. There IS a Totemist in the party, however. Also a Swordsage. I prefer not to restrict book access to my players. Full party is templated-to-hell Totemist 8, human Swordsage 10, Magic-blooded human Sorcerer 10, Elven WS Ranger 5/MoMF 5 (She's the Sorc's GF. She wanted to play "an elf that can turn into animals". Sheesh. :smallsigh:)

-I want to stay away from Frenzied Berserker: I've played quite a few, and they're really just more of a liability than anything. Plus, they don't have a dedicated healer, or really anyone who has access to healing at all, so his Deathless Frenzy would be more of a Slightly Delayed Death Frenzy.

-If I was willing to use any of the "a wizard did it" suggestions, I wouldn't need the Playground's help, now would I? :smallamused:

-I'll suggest the Crusader/Rogue/Paladin thing to him, and he might enjoy it; this is his second character for 3.5, and his first was a Crusader/Hellbreaker.

-Monster class levels? Yeeeeeeccchhhh. Especially for a new guy.

-Lernean Lumi, huh? I'll take a look. Lack of class levels might make him a bit... Swingy. Their first dungeon is the Tomb of Horrors. :smalltongue:

EDIT: Just looked at this one. Lernean is +4 LA, Lumi is +2 LA with 2 RHD. He'd have 4 HD total, and two of those would be class levels. I'll run it by him.

It sounds like my best options are Rogue/Paladin/Bone Knight, standard Sorcadin, or some kind of RKV build.

[Seerow]

You could use some nerfed version of The Twice Betrayer of Shar (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871166/New_Build_and_Challenge:_The_Twice-Betrayer_of_Shar) using a Favored Soul instead of Cleric (since you banned tier 1 classes).



edit: By the way where is Lernean template from? All google is finding is a Lernean Hydra

[Kyouhen]

He could always try a Sorcerer/Favoured Soul Mystic Theurge with immediate action spells coming out every orifice. Wings of Cover, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Delay Death, Close Wounds. He's bound to have enough ways to save himself, then have him pick up a reserve feat or two so he can do some damage while saving his spells for when something tries to kill him.

[TurtleKing]

Ok here is a suggestion that a new guy could do try a Knight from PHBII with maybe the Green Star Adept from Complete Arcane. That would take care of quite a few immunities/ resistances plus be able to persist throught death for a little. If going Green Star Adept then try to encourage the Sorcerer to pick up a Repair X Damage. Throw on Diehard as well if need be. Point is it is something simple that can still do some damage through charging.

Edit: Viability is not guareented so adjust as needed while keeping it simple.

[Greenish]

Elven WS Ranger 5/MoMF 5 (She's the Sorc's GF. She wanted to play "an elf that can turn into animals". Sheesh. :smallsigh:)I've heard worse character concepts.

[Seracain]

Something that has the feeling of being unstoppable is a Feral Thri-kreen, Totemist Soul Eater.

2 RHD/2 LA/2 Totemist/2 Crusader/2 Soul Eater

Grab the feats Stone Power, Shape Soulmeld (Therapeutic Mantle), Willing Deformity, Deformity Madness and Reflexive Psychosis. Then grab admantine armour and a Iron Ward Diamond (or several).

You end up with DR 5/- or DR 10/- when you use an immediate action. You have 10 Temporary HPs when you attack, fast healing 4, ignore 5 damage for a turn, heal 3 hp back for each attack with one of your many natural attacks (more hp if you invest essentia in the Therapeutic Mantle soulmeld (depends on dm's ruling on the text's mentioning effects + spells)) and Energy Resistance depending on soulmelds shaped (one from Dragon Magic gives all energy types but a lower number).

Additionally, you are immune to mind effects, have high saves & CHA to WILL, the ability to add half your character level to a will save as an immediate action, immunity to sleep and your natural attacks deal energy drain.

Also, take a grey bag of tricks and eat the soul of a small fuzzy animal every morning to kick start your soul eater abilities for the day.

Not unstoppable, but defiantly has a relentless feel to it. And still has room to customise soulmelds and manoeuvres. Has to be evil though and might be a bit too complex for a new player.

[Soranar]

Alright, how about this

Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful Evil

Template: necropolitan (acquired template from libris mortis, was taken at level 3 for minimal xp cost)

STATS (32 pts)

STR 16
DEX 8 (dump stat, you fight in full plate)
CON - (dump stat, necropolitan)
INT 14
WIS 8 (dump stat: your saves are not an issue)
CHA 18 (main stat, does everything)

2 flaws (not crucial but gives room to take devotion feats)

Progression

1 Paladin of Tyranny Power Attack, Animal Devotion, Travel Devotion
2 Paladin of Tyranny (Cha bonus to all saves)
3 Hexblade Cleave
4 Hexblade (Cha bonus to all saves vs spells)
5 Hexblade (Mettle)
6 Warblade Improved Sunder
7 Blackguard
8 Blackguard (Cha bonus to all saves)
9 Blackguard Point blank shot
10 Warblade (gain insightful strike maneuver)
11+ Bloodstorm blade

Future feats to consider: Law devotion and/or divine might and/or Divine shield

- You get your CHA bonus to saves twice vs everything, 3 times vs spells
- You have mettle
- Through insightful strike you can get your CHA bonus to damage (concentration check = damage, due to bloodstorm blade this works with ranged attacks too, since you're undead concentration is a CHA skill)
- Being undead makes you immune to a whole lot of things
- You can use wands (blackguard has inflict wounds on his spell list) to heal yourself (you might need to have 11 wisdom for that to work, I'd need to check) and cast hexblade/paladin of tyranny spells
-You have range attacks so travel devotion might not be necessary but I highly recommend animal devotion (STR bonus that stacks with anything, access to flight and turn undead can recharge it). You can bump your AC sky high through Law devotion, full plate + animated shield and divine shield (CHA to something, again).

Being human is really useful to prevent xp penalties due to multiclassing + the extra feat and skillpoints.

[Godskook]

It sounds like my best options are Rogue/Paladin/Bone Knight, standard Sorcadin, or some kind of RKV build.

In a party with no tier 1s, a Sorcadin can afford some adjustments that wouldn't make it into a 'normal' build. For instance, if you allow unarmed swordsage to count as a monk for purposes of things like Monk's belt, then:

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Swordsage 2/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/SE 6
Feats:
-Arcane Preperation(for Greater Luminous Armor)
-Ascetic Mage(Cha to AC)
-Power Attack
-Divine Might
-Arcane Strike
-Improved Bull Rush
-Shock Trooper

It cuts out 9th level spells, but when you're the only tier 2, that's probably ok. Gives Cha to AC in light armor, as well as getting monk damage as a low level monk(with a tattoo and a belt, its got the same dice as a bastard sword), and greater mighty whallop is a fun spell.

[Philistine]

Another option would be playing a Ruby Knight Vindicator, tweaked to fit a favored soul rather than a cleric. He's have pretty good saves across the board, and with a spell list full of useful buffs, could make himself fairly invulnerable. He wouldn't do tons of damage, but he'd be an effective tank and battlefield controller with the right feat choices.

RKVs have Turn/Rebuke Undead as a prerequisite, and Turn attempts power most of their class abilities; so I don't see how you could "tweak" that PrC to work with a Favored Soul. What you could do instead is either houserule in access to Turn Undead for Favored Souls, or use the Spontaneous Divine Casters (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) variant Cleric from UA (which should be fine, given that there's a Sorc in the party). Paladin4/Crusader1 might be a better entry for this character.

[TurtleKing]

Wow alot of builds that would require a more experienced player to play is being suggested for a new player. Try suggesting a simpler build that doesn't require alot of book work and upkeep. Something that ends up like a Dreadnaught.

[Tvtyrant]

Have him play a Ghost that cannot rest. Its haunting site is the heart of one of the other players (the healer is best), so it can only die in a TPK.

[HappyBlanket]

Wow alot of builds that would require a more experienced player to play is being suggested for a new player. Try suggesting a simpler build that doesn't require alot of book work and upkeep. Something that ends up like a Dreadnaught.

Not really. These builds only require experienced players to create, not necessarily to play. Given that the creation process has been done, all the player needs is a basic grasp on rules and mechanics of whatever classes he's been given.

[Hunter Killer]

I second the Troll-Blooded (Feat; Dragon #319) Human Paladin / Bone Knight. It's immune to all but Fire and Acid damage at 8th level, and has some DR and beefed up saves to boot!

[Prime32]

Have him play a Ghost that cannot rest. Its haunting site is the heart of one of the other players (the healer is best), so it can only die in a TPK.This - as an incorporeal undead you're immune to nigh-everything, and even if you're destroyed you come back.

Savage Progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a)
Ghost handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10975)

[TurtleKing]

If going with an undead character I recommend using Libris Mortis to help pull it off even better.

[Flickerdart]

edit: By the way where is Lernean template from? All google is finding is a Lernean Hydra
A template that makes you functionally immune to damage? It could only be Savage Species. :smalltongue:

[graeylin]

Make him a human with DR 500 and SR 100.

I guess i don't understand the concept. He wants to play DnD, and not be able to be helped, hurt, harmed, or touched by magic, and he wants to play adventure in a world where he can step into the sun, and say "it tickles"?

What's the challenge? Nothing can hurt him, so... he walks up to a castle, and starts scratching at the stone with his hands. people charge out, cast spells and shoot arrows, and he ignores them. He finally scratches enough to get inside, and he gets the treasure. Big whoop.

The only adventure here is an entire world who simply moves faster than he does, and avoids him. You can't take my rod of worldly might if you can't catch me.

[TwylyghT]

Thats the type of character that ends up spending a long eternity at the core of a mud to rock tomb.

Dunno if it helps, but greenstar adept gathers all sorts of immunities, your even immune to time.

[Prime32]

edit: By the way where is Lernean template from? All google is finding is a Lernean Hydra
A template that makes you functionally immune to damage? It could only be Savage Species. :smalltongue:Multiheaded (lernean). This is the base creature:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83020.jpg

[Metahuman1]

Ok, I'm not real familiar with them, but I had a thought earlyer today for a different build that might help here.

What if he was a Warfordged, made of Riverine? (StromWrack, new materials page. Stuff is basically only destroyed by Disintegrate, Mordikite's Disjunktion, and a couple of other spells and items along those lines. Nothing else hurts it.)

If I've read this right, only stuff that could destroy a Riverine Item could actually do damage to him.


Question is, did I read it right?

[HappyBlanket]

Make him a human with DR 500 and SR 100.

I guess i don't understand the concept. He wants to play DnD, and not be able to be helped, hurt, harmed, or touched by magic, and he wants to play adventure in a world where he can step into the sun, and say "it tickles"?

What's the challenge? Nothing can hurt him, so... he walks up to a castle, and starts scratching at the stone with his hands. people charge out, cast spells and shoot arrows, and he ignores them. He finally scratches enough to get inside, and he gets the treasure. Big whoop.

The only adventure here is an entire world who simply moves faster than he does, and avoids him. You can't take my rod of worldly might if you can't catch me.

You're exaggerating. And even if we were to entertain that situation; He walks up to a castle, and someone throws a net. He enters a battle where he needs to kill something, and is unable to do so because he hasn't focused on offense.

As I understand it, he wants to play a Tank. I fail to see what's so terrible about that, other than his misunderstanding of a Tank's utility in d&d.

[Volthawk]

Multiheaded (lernean). This is the base creature:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83020.jpg

Yeah. Learnean makes it so you only die when all your heads are severed. That is a Lumi. See where this is going?

[Soranar]

Yeah. Learnean makes it so you only die when all your heads are severed. That is a Lumi. See where this is going?

Technically, applying the template kills the character immediately as none of his heads are attached.

[BenInHB]

A Spell Stitched Necropolitan Crusader/Warblade would be a good simple base with out getting too cheesy or weird.

Necropolitan makes you undead giving you all the immunities that come with it. Spell Stitched gives you Spell Resistance based off CHA. Crusader gives you DR, Delayed Damage Pool, Temporary Hit Points and Healing (Depending on how your DM works healing from Strikes) Warblade boosts saves with Diamond Mind and gets you out of fails with Iron Heart Surge.

What else does your character want to do other than withstand everything thrown at him??

[Soranar]

Spellstitched has no LA adjustment (only CR adjustment) so it's not meant to be taken by player characters. And CR +1 does not = LA +1 , there are many CR +1 templates that cost LA +2 or more for a character since he gains significant non combat bonuses or indirect bonuses from them.

[TroubleBrewing]

Still rolling these responses around in my head, I'll respond in a minute.

Just thought I should jump in and clarify that I am totally against houseruling stuff in, and close to 100% against homebrew. Any suggestions incorporating these two concepts will be pretty much not even considered.

[Metahuman1]

Mines not Homebrew, but I'm not sure if they combine or not under the rules. I was actually rather hoping someone here would know and share the answer too that.

[Worira]

Yeah, I'm not actually sure why you wouldn't want to homebrew or houserule here. You have a very specific thing you want to accomplish here, so I'm not actually sure why don't just write a template called Impervious Creature, with rules of "immune to everything neener neener" and a LA of whatever you think it should have. No, it's not going to be a particularly fun character to play, but that's because it's an utterly deathly dull character concept. Unless he's suicidal and questing for a Sphere of Annihilation to stick his head in or something.

[Flickerdart]

Ok, I'm not real familiar with them, but I had a thought earlyer today for a different build that might help here.

What if he was a Warfordged, made of Riverine? (StromWrack, new materials page. Stuff is basically only destroyed by Disintegrate, Mordikite's Disjunktion, and a couple of other spells and items along those lines. Nothing else hurts it.)

If I've read this right, only stuff that could destroy a Riverine Item could actually do damage to him.


Question is, did I read it right?
Warforged cannot normally be made of Riverine. The possible materials for Warforged plating are actually quite limited.

[Kenneth]

I have to agree with teh guy who said to give him SR 1000 and DR 1000/- and immunity to all elemental forms of damage as well as to most status effects ( shaken, exahusted etecerta, he woulld still age and theoroetically could fall down a flgith of stairs and be prone so..)))


I do not understand how people can say that a character that is immune to any and all forms of harm to him is worthless in combat. It, at least in my opinion, is the greatest offensive tactic ever. anything you enemy does has absolutely no effect on you and still you keep punching them in the face untill they die, their life force is going to run out LONG before anything hurts you, oh wait that is right your immune to any and all forms of detremental effects.

SO basically his/her player wants superman without any kryptonite or magic around ( fyi magic still hurts superman like any other regular human, him being from krypton does not give him a special invulerability to it liek say.. it does to bullets and shockwave inducing punches)

Or you could just say 'The Giant charges at you his tree trunk of a club raised above his head he brings it down upon you with a loud krrack putting a decent sized crater in the ground where you stood. The ugly creature grins a toothy grin and raises what is left of his weapon only to have his eyes go wide at sight behelden by him. You standing in the middle of the crater staring up at him, completely unharmed. Suddenly there is a sound like the sky has ripped open, several asteroids fall from above tearing through the sky racing towards you and the giant. The impact is beyond description, flaming debris and chunks of earth soar through the air, but only can you see all of this momentarily, the impact stirred enough dirt, rocks, animals, trees and everything else in a sizeable radius into the air, that is is darkened. after an hour or so the dust and all settles. revelaing, again, you stadning alone in the middle of an even bigger crater. unharmed and looking hungry, "maybe you should go back to town and buy a cupcake?" You think to yourself.'


there now he cna be whatever he wants and you can just say that any and everything in the world cannot harm him, think of baldr of norse mythology only he will no thave that pesky mistle toe weakness. Just go with fluff and say ' ok your impervious.' that is simple enough.

[Metahuman1]

So it would require a house rule then. Guess it doesn't help the player the DM want's to help.

But riddle me this, if a dm did allow it, would it then make it so that the player could only take damage from things that can destroy Riverine items?

[TroubleBrewing]

It seems like some of you aren't understanding what I'm looking for.

I'm just looking for a way to make this guy into a Tank. He hasn't much experience with the system, and still sees it as a necessary role in combat. The best I can hope for is a build with a decent amount of immunities, good saves, high AC, and maybe some energy immunities.

I'm not looking for a Kryptonian, or a guy who is literally immune to everything. Seriously, that would be ridiculous. :smallannoyed:

[Flickerdart]

I do not understand how people can say that a character that is immune to any and all forms of harm to him is worthless in combat. It, at least in my opinion, is the greatest offensive tactic ever. anything you enemy does has absolutely no effect on you and still you keep punching them in the face untill they die, their life force is going to run out LONG before anything hurts you, oh wait that is right your immune to any and all forms of detremental effects.
This is a common misunderstanding.

Imagine, for a second, that you carry an indestructible shield. Your opponent is a man with a rifle. Is the man with the rifle going to walk up to you and shoot you? No. He is going to sit in the bushes hundreds of feet away and take potshots at your unprotected friends - and your shield can't help them. It's the same in D&D - having perfect defence is great and all, but you need to be a credible threat for enemies to consider you, instead of ignoring you and walking/flying/teleporting/burrowing/tumbling/jumping past you to the squishies.

Besides, those things don't even make you untouchable. DR 1000 and energy immunity? Untyped damage. SR 1000? Supernatural abilities or SR: No abilities. Status effects? Let's see how resistant you are to the status effect of "entombed under a mile of rock".

OP: Just give him a Necropolitan or Warforged Crusader. You get a laundry list of immunities, two or three different ways to heal yourself, the best AC of level 1 and a few sources of DR on top.

[Worira]

Yeah, I think we were "confused" because that's not actually what you asked for in the slightest. "Impervious to everything, even magic" is not at all the same thing as "hard to kill or disable, even with magic".

[Gavinfoxx]

How about a sorcerer specced for personal survival and denial of enemy actions?

[Kenneth]

then why did you not just sya ' Player wants to play a tank.

there is a not small difference between a 'tank' and a character who is "impervious to everything, even magic."

I take it that your player really don't understand what impervious means or -more likey- unable to actually vocalize what he really wanted in his/her character as he was new to the system.

so instead of saying "hey I want to be a 'tank'" and by 'tank' i am guessing the MMORPG version of a tank (such as EverQuest or World of Warcraft) where you get everybody to focus on fightng you and not the rest of your party. he said ' hey I want to be impervious so nothing can affect me, not even magic!'

a tanks role in D&D as opposed to those are not the same thing. but that would take me forever to explain. but the crusader/whatever builds that some have said previously are excellent choices.

I have to add if he is still very new to the system that he is looking for a 'tank' id toss him some more leeway than the rest of the players.

[TroubleBrewing]

Flickerdart gets it. (As per usual.) I'll probably end up going with something like that, just to keep it simple.

@Gavin: That was actually my first suggestion to him, but he seems to prefer melee, which is why my next idea was Sorcadin. He's also a new guy, so a ton of spells isn't necessarily a good idea.

[Dragonsoul]

This has always been a pet project of Mine..

Githzerai(Vow of Poverty)
Paladin 2/Rogue 2/Cleric(Luck,Pride) 1/Monk 2/Pious Templear 1/Forsaker 10

This gives you huge Saves 30+ easily though you can get it over 50 if you try,Decent hit die(D12 for a long while), Quite good AC, and SR 50+ Since most Kills are from Spells and not being hit its relevant. You also have a swath of Immunities, You have Mettle and Evasion, Generally you'll only fail a roll on a 1 and you can reroll that twice a day, go Vow of Peace if you want to completly sacrifice your ability to do anything for more bulk.

EDIT: melee? Scratch that last bit, the above is very tweakable, depending on Racial preferences(Drow is an option) or LA byoff, thats just off the top of my head. Basically Ravager+Vow of Poverty+Racial HD based SR Can make a very hard to kill(With spells) character

[Tetrasodium]

I realize how vague this sounds, but I have a player who is new to 3.5, and is wanting a character who is "impervious to everything, even magic."

Now, for this game, I've banned Tier 1 classes, which would be the easiest way of making such a thing.

I also realize that a character of this type is incredibly boring. It's all well and good to be able to soak everything, but in my experience, devoting all of your resources to passive stuff leaves you pretty short-handed when it comes to offensive stuff.

Any ideas on how to fix this problem, or to build such a character? My initial thoughts were to build a typical Sorcadin; high saves, spellcasting capabilty, heavy armor, AC in the 50's, etc. This is a 10th level game, so most builds will be hitting their sweet spots soon.
Warforge Juggernaut can comes close depending on how you build it and the level you aim for, largely due to the laundry list of immunities they have (basically anything with a willsave, paralysis, poision, anything mind affecting ["all fear effects are mind affecting"], fatigue, etc). 10 I think (but not positive)5 fighter = juggernaut gets most (if not all) of the immunities. It sounds powerful sure... but your spending a feat for armor and every level is -1 to bluff/diplomacy/sense motive, and the class features are mainly charge related with many of the fighter bonus feats going towards charge related prereqs for juggernaut giving you an interesting character that can go "nope, immune.. immune too... immune... think I'm immune too.. immune to that twice over" A lot of people lioke to hate on warforged for some reason, but they are actually a potentially enjoyable race (basically slaves trained to fight since birth and coming into that training* knowing how to speak as a level 0 peasant with no skills essentially then told "hey your free go live your life!" one day) toss in the juggernaut social penalties and the fun gets cranked up a notch for a character that doesn't really understand why fleshbags die for several hours a night, or understand concepts like eating, breathing, smelling, dreaming, drinking, and a laundry list of other fun things that a creative player can have everyone at the table rolling with laughter while roleplaying the character to a T. You can make him feel even more "impervious" by frequently hitting him with spells that would probably kill anyone else and give them terrified fear over your sudden "killer GM" streak for opening the encounter with that spell if it were to target anyone else. Warforged have a host of vulnerabilities (rusting monsters, heat metal, etc) that others can pretty much just ignore or use a different weapon on too. Plus juggernauts eventually become immune to divine healing once they pickup alltheir immunities & need arcane repair spells/potions (or oils) instead of cure. They donh't regenerate naturally & can be repaired with a bunch of craft skills (go for whittling for more fun like carving a small beholder figure and saying " I saw one of these and politely asked it to leave... and.. it did" the next morning when everyone wakes up after he spends the night on lookout duty**) (WF things on those two). In short, it's the perfect character for your d&d newbie... because the character doesn't know any more than the player, allowing most of those newbie questions to remain "in character"

* fight in a war against other warforged and human/elf/dwarf/et6c, not monster killing... he probably got warned about rustmonsters (and should probably know what they are right off the bat due to their unique threat to WF IMO)... The character probably doesn't know critters any better than the player, it has no background listening to tales or legends as a child or anything of the sort "ancient black dragon?... so it's old and frail, lets go deal with it and get paid quick"
** even more fun if you have him make a BS perception roll and bring him into the next room to discuss it so you can "explain stuff he probably won't understand any more than his character" and suggest it privately :)

[TroubleBrewing]

Huh. I actually had not considered the Warforged Juggernaut.

[Raimun]

Shame that Cleric isn't allowed. My solution would be:


(High level) Cleric/Boneknight with Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell, Extraordinary Spell Aim and enough Turn Undead uses to have at least two Persistent spells on at the same time. Cast both Delay Death and (Extraordinary Spell Aimed) Antimagic Field with DMM: Persistent Spell.

The resultant Cleric would ignore hitpoint damage (prepare Heals, though :smallamused: ), be immune to other lethal effects (ability drain/damage, poison, disease, etc.) and magic but still benefit from his buffs and items. About the only thing that would make him concerned of his personal well being would be Disjunction. Have some more DMM-tricks and fight in melee where only you can benefit from supernatural effects. He could also ride a horse. A horse, I tell you. Perhaps even a warhorse.

I would really need to test this out in a campaign... if the atmosphere is right.

Edit: Though ability damage to non-physical ability scores would do the trick, such effect are hardly ever dealt by (non-poison, non-disease) Extraordinary attacks.

[Redshirt Army]

If you meant tank, not "impervious to everything", then I second Warforged Crusader. Keep in mind that the Crusader's healing works on a Warforged at full strength.

[TroubleBrewing]

@ Raimun: Having enough TU to power TWO persisted spells at once? :smallconfused:

Most DMM builds rely on having about 10. If you've got a Metamagic rod of Extend, you can bump that to 20 or so.

This is the primary reason I'm not allowing Tier 1's. One of my players is still pissed at me because of my "watch me out-paladin the Paladin, out-fight the Fighter and out-heal the Healer" character.

That and the fact that I don't want them steamrolling encounters, while still allowing them to have powerful and interesting characters.

[Tetrasodium]

Huh. I actually had not considered the Warforged Juggernaut.

they have some fun things they can do like "what do you mean you can't just walk to shore and hope those pirates don't jump overboard to follow you on foot?... oh wait, you need to breathe. you mean you can't breath water?". You can make excellent use of the non-biological (no breathing, eating, etc) in ways that let a crap skilled character contribute to things in new and different ways (boat sinking?... jump overboard with all the heavy stuff and walk to shore. Corrupt city guards trying to burn you out of your hideout to overpower and hjail you?... dig a hole and cover him up quick so he can break you out tonight under cover of darkness!... Think the rogue might need some help after he sneaks past those guards there? Hop in his portable hole and wait till he gets you there. The immunities can let you wield weapons that would be impossible fir any other creature to wield without severe penalties [mine had a holy? um... defiled bastard sword of dancing(?) something else dancing-like from bovd one point that would give negative levels to anyone not immune unless they were both evil and good I think it was... go ahead and grab it oput of the aair when I let go, that's even better] )

[Raimun]

@ Raimun: Having enough TU to power TWO persisted spells at once? :smallconfused:

Most DMM builds rely on having about 10. If you've got a Metamagic rod of Extend, you can bump that to 20 or so.

This is the primary reason I'm not allowing Tier 1's. One of my players is still pissed at me because of my "watch me out-paladin the Paladin, out-fight the Fighter and out-heal the Healer" character.

That and the fact that I don't want them steamrolling encounters, while still allowing them to have powerful and interesting characters.

Well, that's the bare minimum needed. Obviously, it's going to get even more crazy after those are taken care of... I just didn't feel like hurting BMX-bandits' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw) feelings too much.

And like I said, I would only try something like that out in the right atmosphere, ie. everyone is joining the madness.

[Hunter Killer]

Let's build that Troll Blooded Human Paladin / Bone Knight, shall we? I'm going to assume a 28 Point Buy, although you might run stat generation differently:

Statistics:
Str 14, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 14, Char 15 (I don't like negatives, so I spent 2 points on Int, which would normally be a dump stat for Paladin).

Increases will go: Cha (16) - Str (15) - Str (16) - Cha (17) - Cha (18) - Str (17)

Classes:
1st to 4th - Paladin (Divine Grace, Divine Health, Lay on Hands, Spell Buffs)
5 to 14th - Bone Knight (Buttloads of Immunities, Spells)
15th to 20th - Knight (Bulwark of Defense, Test of Mettle, Shield Bonuses)

Feats:
1st - Toughness (Required for Troll Blooded), Troll Blooded, Combat Reflexes, Standstill
3rd - Hold the Line
6th - Divine Shield
9th - Travel Devotion (Spend at least 4 Rebukes for extra uses)
12th - Mage Slayer
15th - Defensive Sweep
18th - Extra Turning (Not great, but means more Travel Devotion + Divine Shield)
19th - Great Fortitude (Bonus Feat from the Knight class)

Flaws:
Meager Fortitude (-3 Fort) and Shaky (-2 on Ranged Attacks)

Skills:
1st - Craft (Armorsmithing) 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Ride 4
2nd - Craft (Armorsmithing) 5, Knowledge (Religon) 5, Ride 5
3rd - Craft (Armorsmithing) 6, Intimidate 1
4th - Intimidate 2, Ride 6
5th - Intimidate 5
6th - Intimidate 6, Dismounting Attack (Skill Trick)
7th - Craft (Armorsmithing) 7, Never Outnumbered (Skill Trick)
8th - Craft (Armorsmithing) 8, Craft (Weaponsmithing) 2
9th - Craft (Armorsmithing) 9, Craft (Weaponsmithing) 4
10th - Craft (Weaponsmithing) 5, Spellcraft 1
11th - Craft (Weaponsmithing) 6, Spellcraft 2
12th - Craft (Armorsmithing) 10, Craft (Weaponsmithing) 8
13th - Craft (Weaponsmithing) 10, Intimidate 7
14th - Intimidate 10
15th - Intimidate 13
16th - Intimidate 16
17th - Intimidate 19
18th - Intimidate 21, Ride 7 (What's better? Just dumping points.)
19th - Intimidate 22, Ride 9 (What's better? Just dumping points.)
20th - Intimidate 23, Ride 11 (What's better? Just dumping points.)

Ends at:
Craft (Armorsmithing / Weaponsmithing) +10 (10 Ranks Each)
Intimidate +27 (23 Ranks, +4 Cha)
Knowledge (Religion) +5 (5 Ranks)
Ride +12 (11 Ranks, +1 Dex)
Spellcraft +2 (2 Ranks)

Combat in the Lower Levels:
Pick a spot on the battlefield, normally in front of the casters or skill monkeys. Use Combat Reflexes, Standstill, and Hold the Line to prevent anything from charging your buddies or moving out of your threatened area.

The first goal of this character is to get a decent Reach weapon and Armor Spikes and/or Spiked Gauntlets so that he threatens squares that are 10ft away and 5ft away.

When the character gets Divine Shield, he's going to slap on a Buckler. This will allow him to continue to use his Reach weapon, but get the benefits of the feat.

Combat in the Mid Levels:
The character is going to use the mobility of his mount and Travel Devotion to his advantage. The idea will be the same as before, stake out a position on the battlefield and lock it down, but now we're going to try and meet the enemies before they have a chance to move in range of the squishies.

Failing that, you want to use Intimidate to demoralize your opponents and make them flee.

Also, around 8th level is when this character will really come into his own... Not only will he have immunities to fear and diseases, but he's going to have immunity to any non-lethal damage (Which, due to Troll Blooded, is anything that isn't Fire or Acid based).

This character's equipment goals are going to be to make himself a Masterwork Bonecraft Full Plate, a Masterwork Bonecraft Guisarme and Masterwork Bonecraft Spiked Gauntlets. He'll also want to get a Masterwork Buckler. This will be his final gear; He's going to enchant it to improve it.

Combat in High Levels:
The character is going to try to use his immunities and armor class to his advantage by attempting to draw enemies to him via Test of Mettle, but failing that the general idea is the same.

Knight gives him some additional battlefield control abilities that are good with his feats (Bulwark of Defense), some protective abilities (Shield Ally) and a minor increase to AC (+1 from Shield Block).

Note for the DM / OP:
If you don't like that Troll Blooded + Bone Knight will basically make this guy Superman with Fire and Acid Kryptonite, then just remove Troll Blooded from the build and replace those feats with Aberrant Blood + Inhuman Reach.

[Redshirt Army]

You can trade Ride for Tumble with Skilled City Dweller. That might be worth sinking 11 points into. :smallsmile:

[molten_dragon]

RKVs have Turn/Rebuke Undead as a prerequisite, and Turn attempts power most of their class abilities; so I don't see how you could "tweak" that PrC to work with a Favored Soul.

Well, after putting about 10 seconds of thought into it, you could tweak RKV to fit favored soul by removing the prerequisite to have turn undead and making the abilities reliant on turn undead usable a fixed number of times per day instead of using up turn undead attempts. I'm sure there are other things you could do as well.

[molten_dragon]

Flickerdart gets it. (As per usual.) I'll probably end up going with something like that, just to keep it simple.

@Gavin: That was actually my first suggestion to him, but he seems to prefer melee, which is why my next idea was Sorcadin. He's also a new guy, so a ton of spells isn't necessarily a good idea.

Yeah, thinking about it some more RKV probably isn't great for a new guy, it can be somewhat complicated, since you have spells and maneuvers you have to keep track of.

Maybe you could go with something involving warforged juggernaut? It gives a boatload of immunities, and if mixed with something like dungeoncrasher fighter, it would be pretty effective in melee as well.

[Gavinfoxx]

I would sit down with him, and say something like this: "You haven't been very specific in your vision. Please try to specify exactly what you mean, what you want your character to do, what his role in the party is, and what sorts of things you want to be impervious to, and what your vision in your head is for 'impervious'. Be as specific as you possibly can."

[Slipperychicken]

Regen (troll-blooded) and the fiendish limb graft that gives you golem's magic immunity?

That makes him difficult to kill via "direct" means like save/die and being hit with sticks. Some kind of fire and acid immunity from a template(s) if you're going to deal with that sort of thing a lot. KO's still happen to him, and enemies can take him out of the fight about as easily, he's "invincible" in that he won't die, but doesn't take the spotlight quite as much.

[Gavinfoxx]

The Golem's Magic Immunity is pretty easy to pierce, though.

They should have just called that ability "Infinite Spell Resistance".

[magic9mushroom]

Human Paladin of Slaughter with Troll-Blooded and Evil's Blessing is impervious enough for most things without going into boring territory.

After all, as long as the entire party doesn't lose, big whoop if you get knocked unconscious. There aren't that many monsters that use fire or acid. If you're really paranoid, get a 2/day item of Pact of Return and use them on fire and acid.