Suggested Gish Spells?

[NeoSeraphi]

Hello Playground. I don't know how many of you are familiar with my homebrew but I've contributed quite a few pieces to the site, some were well-received, others rejected.

Now I'd like to homebrew a gish base class because I'm insane like that. But I want it to be balanced, so I'd like to have full spellcasting progression, but a limited spell list. Mostly gish-focused spells, arcane buff spells and perhaps a few utilities.

The obvious spells to include would be the +4 enhancements and their mass versions, along with invisibility, greater invisibility, stoneskin, shield, mage armor, haste, and greater mage armor, but I want to hear suggestions, please. What spells are necessary for a gish?

Here's what my class is already including:

Full level 9 arcane spell progression, probably at a dread necromancer rate of learning and spells per day. (This might be subject to change if I can't find enough high level spells that don't fit the buff theme)

Spontaneous casting along with knowledge of entire spell list, as a dread necromancer.

Lack of cantrips, as a dread necromancer

Full Base Attack Bonus, weapon and armor proficiency, skill selection, and armored casting of a duskblade.


Here's what the class will not have:

Offensive damage dealing spells like fireball or shocking grasp.

Animating dead spells like animate dead or create undead.

Debuffing/crowd control spells like stinking cloud or ray of exhaustion.

The channeling strike ability of a duskblade.


The class will be designed to be melee-centric and have the spellcasting only to provide enhanced melee for you and your allies. Please read the OP, I don't want to hear about how a gish's true power is still versatility, putting that in a base class would make gishes too powerful as it is.

So, what kind of spells should a self-buffer have available to him? Please include all sources and spell levels as well as spell lists. I'm not sure if I want to include healing spells or not yet.

[herrhauptmann]

You do realize that by trying to put 9th level spells onto a melee chassis, it's not going to be 'balanced' no matter what you do, right?
Unless it's off of a spell list more restricted than the war mage.

Now that I've covered that:
Here's a list I got a while back. Standard gish handbooks just took spells from the God Wizard list :(.
So with some help from shneekey the lost:


1st Level Spells:
Grease (PHB)
Mage Armor (PHB)
Nerverskitter (SC)
Shield (PHB)
Fist of Stone (CArc)

2nd Level Spells:
Mirror Image (PHB)
Wraithstrike (SC)

3rd Level Spells:
Haste (PHB)
Dispel Magic (PHB)
Luminous armor (if Good and a preparation caster) [BoED]

4th Level Spells:
Dimension Door (PHB)
Polymorph (PHB)

5th Level Spells:
Acid Sheath (SC)
Baleful Polymorph(PHB)
Teleport (PHB)

6th Level Spells:
Disintegrate (PHB)
Contingency (PHB)
Greater Dispel Magic (SC)

7th Level Spells:
Energy Absorption (SC)
Force Cage (PHB)
Limited Wish (PHB)
Prismatic Spray (PHB)
Reverse Gravity (PHB)


8th Level Spells:
Mind Blank (PHB)
Polymorph Any Object (PHB)

9th Level Spells:
Time Stop (PHB)
Gate (PHB)
Shapechange (PHB)
Wish (PHB)

[NeoSeraphi]

You do realize that by trying to put 9th level spells onto a melee chassis, it's not going to be 'balanced' no matter what you do, right?
Unless it's off of a spell list more restricted than the war mage.

Now that I've covered that:
Here's a list I got a while back. Standard gish handbooks just took spells from the God Wizard list :(.
So with some help from shneekey the lost:

This class isn't supposed to be a God. It's the exact opposite. A gish is a big stupid fighter who uses his magic to enhance his big stupid fighting. And really, if I thought about it, the only arcane spell past 6th level that would help is shapechange, so I might just limit it to 6th level, or have to homebrew a small list of 7th-9th level spells that are gish themed.

[DeadManSleeping]

Balanced with what? The classes aren't balanced with each other. That really impacts your power level.

True Strike is a nice little spell, at 1st level.
Web is a 2nd level spell that makes for great battlefield control, the kind that a gish needs. Whether you're preventing enemies from running away, or preventing them from keeping up, web is there for you.

If you have Darkvision, you'll get a lot of benefit from the darkness spell.

There's more, but I'm sleepy. Good luck!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Rather than including healing spells, maybe give it Vampiric Touch or perhaps a class feature that spends a spell slot to heal himself of a portion of his melee damage for one round. Vampiric Touch can be placed into a Spell Storing weapon, and you could even do that Maximized whether by traditional means or a lesser metamagic rod. For a class feature that heals himself, maybe he could spend a spell slot of X level as a swift action, and for one round every successful melee attack heals him for Xd6 damage but no more than the attack dealt. Another alternative to healing would be temporary HP, for example give the class Polymorph (Draconic Polymorph in Draconomicon) and/or some Polymorph subschool spells (Trollshape and Dragonshape in PH2, and Primal Form, Displacer Form, and Fiendform in SC) in order for a character of this class to take the Minor Shapeshift reserve feat in CM and spend a swift action every round to gain temporary HP as long as he has at least one such spell available to cast.

I would definitely include Heart of Air/Water/Earth/Fire in Complete Mage.

There are plenty of spells that enhance your melee attacks, Spell Compendium has Blades of Fire, Burning Sword, Bladeweave, Whirling Blade, Energize Shield, Dolorous Blow, Weapon of Energy, etc. There's also (Greater) Magic Weapon, of course. It would also be fitting to include (Mass) Snake's Swiftness, and maybe Rhino's Rush and Wraithstrike, and be sure to include Haste and (Greater) Heroism. (all SC or core)

To go along with the ability score boosting spells, Draconic Might (SC), Fist of Stone (SC), Animalistic Power (PH2), and Crown of Might (PH2) could be added onto the pile. Consider that a character could take Spell Focus: Transmutation and Ability Enhancer from Dragon Compendium to make any spell he casts that grants an enhancement bonus to an ability score to grant a bonus +2 higher.

Also keep in mind that an arcane spellcaster could take Arcane Disciple to expand his spell list, and use wands and scrolls of those spells all day despite the on per level per day limit. For example, Arcane Disciple for the Wrath domain (SC) and a Wand of Rhino's Rush in a wand chamber weapon would allow him to double his damage on every charge attack. Arcane Disciple for the Slime domain (SC) could give quite a few options for crowd control and damage, and the Cold domain (SC) could give even better damage options with a few crowd control spells. Arcane Disciple for the Summoner domain (SC) with the Summon Elemental reserve feat (CM) would be another option. Then there's the Bloodline feats in Dragon magazine issues 311, 325, and 335, each of which add a specific list of spells, one of each level, to your list of spells known.

Consider adding a feature that automatically doubles the duration of spells he places on himself and his equipment, similar to the Suel Arcanamach's Extended Spellstrength class feature. Doubling the duration of spells he casts on his equipment would make Greater Magic Weapon, Dolorous Blow, Blades of Fire, etc. more worthwhile, but add a clause that makes the duration go back to normal if the item it's cast on leaves his possession.

If you're going to give the class 9th level spells, I'd give it 3/4 BAB progression, and expect every character to take Abjurant Champion 5 to have +16 BAB by 20th level. You should probably give it Combat Casting as a bonus feat early on, similar to Duskblade. I'd also give it a Familiar, possibly even granting Improved Familiar (check the DMG and CW versions for options) at the 4th class level. In that case, give the class Augment Familiar, Enhance Familiar, Familiar Pocket, Fortify Familiar, and Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability, all in SC. You may want to include Sonorous Hum (SC) to go with Augment Familiar, which can be cast with a Circlet of Rapid Casting to save some actions. Note that a character can get Improved Familiar but then wait to get a new one until he qualifies for one of the stronger choices. Note that a character could just take the feat Obtain Familiar (CA) with Improved Familiar and/or Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) if he wants to have a combat pet.

General utility spells like Alter Self, See Invisibility, Fly, Overland Flight, Expeditious Retreat, etc. would probably range from necessary to gravy. Including party-friendly situational spells like Protection from (Evil), Remove Curse, Daylight, Magic Circle against (Evil), Water Breathing, Break Enchantment, etc. would make a character of this class considerably handy to have around. Also be sure to include (Greater) Dispel Magic.

Consider how this class would interact with Prestige Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard). You could take six levels of that and still get 9th level spells by 20th, and have +2 Inspire Courage, which could get considerably higher with the proper combination of feats, items, and spells.

Edit: Consider granting it bonus metamagic feats, along with Rapid Metamagic (CM), so those higher level spell slots could be used for Quickened, Chained, and Persistent versions of lower level buffs.

[herrhauptmann]

A gish is a big stupid fighter who uses his magic to enhance his big stupid fighting.

O RLY?

Did you not notice the frown face because it wasn't a big emote supported by the boards?
Or that I stated I got help from another poster to give a specific list of spells?
Few of those spells are on the God Wizard handbook (except dispel). They're all useful for gishes. Add and subtract spells until you've got the flavor you need.

If you like shapechange, but the DM is limiting it or you're too low level, try the body of war line of spells. They're like tensers transformation, but useful.

[NeoSeraphi]

If you like shapechange, but the DM is limiting it or you're too low level, try the body of war line of spells. They're like tensers transformation, but useful.

The Body of War line? I've never heard of them. Source?


*snip

Thanks. I don't think I'll be giving them a familiar or 3/4 BAB though. I don't see many abjuration spells I'll be including (yet) so I don't expect Abjurant Champion to be very attractive either. (Without access to Luminous Armor, they'd only get +5 bonus to the shield spell from that enhanced defense ability)

Rhino's Rush is a pretty good spell, but where do you think it would fall in full spellcasting? I think 2nd level, maybe 3rd because I'm giving it to a full BAB class...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Ranger and Paladin both get Rhino's Rush as a 1st level spell, though they don't get access to it until 4th level. Still, they can get 1st level Pearls of Power to cast it a lot on a full BAB chassis. A Cleric with the Wrath domain can get it at 1st level, and can use the PH2 spontaneous domain casting to use it quite often, and there's not much difference between full and 3/4 BAB at 1st-4th level. I wouldn't see any problem with giving it out at 1st level, since at that level you're usually already killing opponents in a single hit, plus one 1st level spell taking out at least one opponent is fairly standard anyway (Color Spray). Plus that would help to power through DR in the earlier levels, rather than casting Magic Weapon or switching damage types.

[erikun]

I'd recommend the Bard chassis (with higher HD) as a starting point. After all, look at the Psychic Warrior: d8, 3/4 BAB, 6th level powers, and it is considered one of the best melee classes in the game.

As for spells, most of the Cleric list (minus blast and healing), the Paladin list, and most of abjuration from the Wizard list should fit well. There are a few others (you mentioned True Strike) and the Duskblade might have a few good spells.

Depending on how "utility gishy" you want the character, you might want to include stuff like Detect Undead, See Invisibility, Detect Scrying, and True Seeing. They don't technically make the character any better at fighting, but knowing what is happening around you is very useful.