PF Help me with my "rogue" planning (OMG it's not TWF & doesnt tank skills to do it!)

[Tetrasodium]

Let me start out with this interesting gem from the pathfinder core rulebook
http://veriotrainingjmalaspino.testgroup24.com/commentary_images/curve_blade.png
Spoiler tag is just to keep from stretching the thread funny. See the magic yet?... in short this weapon allows you to make a finesse rogue without having to rely on dual wielding and allowing you to make use of all those fun feats that fall short with dual wielding like cleave, power attack, etc. Combined with some of the rogue changes in pathfinder, you can do this with a two level splash of fighter and have lots of room to spare for other feats (or probably even without the splash if you aim for a high enough level). Even more, you can do this as either human or elf since elf gets the elven curve blade as a martial weapon instead of exotic, the human bonus feat pretty much equals them out. Since The game I'm in is level3, I went with a fighter splash.
Here's the stats I rolled: 16 17 13 11 14 9. I'm thinking of using them in that order too.since the elf bonus/penalty changes them to 16 19 11 13 14 9 The int lets me be a decent skillmonkey that drops down to ok with social stuff because of the charisma.

And now for the level chart... When I first started mentally cobbling this together I was sure I had to be missing something, there was just no way I could possibly make this without hitting a snag of some sort I thought. It gets more and more open ended & changeable as it passes 12 letting me keep room for adjustments to fit in with needs as the group grows in levels or size (lets face it 9 levels can be a while)


L1: elf Rogue 1: Sneak attack (1d6), trapfinding
-Feat: Dodge

L2: Fighter 1: Armor/shields/weapons/bonus feat

- Feat:Power Attack (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#power-attack)

L3: Rogue 2: Evasion, Rogue Talent
-Rogue Talent: Finesse Rogue
-feat:Mobility
- Stat Bump: dex +1 (20)

L4: rogue3:Sneak attack (+2d6), Trapfinding +1

L5: Rogue 4: Rogue Talent, Uncanny dodge
- Rogue Talent: Weapon Training (Elven Curve Blade)
-Rogue Talent:Combat Trick (Cleave (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#power-attack))

L6: Fighter2: Bonus Feat, Bravery +1 (1 will save against fear)
-Feat: Spring Attack
-Feat:??
L7:
L8: Rogue 5: Sneak attack (+3d6)
L9: Rogue 6: Rogue Talent, Trap sense +2 (
- Rogue Talent: Pressure Points? (ultimate Combat book)
L10:Rogue 7: sneak Attack (+4d6)
-Feat: Lunge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/monkey-lunge-combat)?
L11: Rogue 8: Improved Uncanny Dodge, Rogue Talent
- Rogue Talent: Resilliency?, fast stealth?, Assault Leader?(APG), Befuddling Strike?, Offensive defense?,
L12: Rogue 9: Sneak attack (+5d6), Rogue Talent
-Feat:Vital Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/vital-strike-combat---final)?
L13: Rogue 10: Advanced Talents, Rogue Talent
- Rogue Talent:??

So... missing any traps? suggestions? (Remember some feats are slightly different in PF). The second level of fighter could be floated to a later point (like when/after BaB6 gets hit) to allow vital strike/lunge earlier, it's quite a while from level3 either way... because of the reasonable int I can quickly make up for the skill hit that the fighter levels each impose allowing skillmonkey stuff to not crash and burn due to the fighter dipping as well. Lets try to keep out of the 3.5 books and stick to pathfinder stuff instead of having yet another pathfinder build thread veer off into "well if you go into "tome of battle, you can take...". I'm pulling stuff above from pathfinder: CRB, APG, & Ultimate Combat... so going outside CRB is certainly fine. Long story short it looks like a medium armor "fighter" that can do more than say "Durr... I like Swords!" when anything other than combat is happening. It's the first rogue build I've been really interested in trying out without some kind of PrC gimic or something in a lonnng time too. Lets face it, rogues are cool yea, but almost nothing+sneak attack(hopefully!) plus a bunch of miss.. miss.. miss... OUCH! run away!gets old after a while & TWF rogues are basically all the same since you can't really add much flavor to personalize them given very little synergizes well with them

[Greenish]

So… you get a slightly more damage with PA, better base damage and 1.5x Str to damage by using a two-hander. I don't think that's news to most people.

[DeMouse]

The only thing I would question is why bother with finesse when you don't need the hueg dex for meeting the TWF pre-reqs anymore?

Would it not make more sense to just use STR as your highest stat and use any 2-hander???

[Tetrasodium]

My reasoning was that dex lets him get decent AC (without a huge check penalty) and helps considerably with skills, you might as well be a straight fighter if you can't do rogue skill stuff better than 50/50 on a good day. Power attack isn't especially great on it's own for this build sure (potentially useful sometimes, just not awesome on it's own). Power attack is in it, because it's is a prereq for cleave. Cleave can be considerably more useful than power attack though :)... especially when you consider the sneak attack multiple mooks from stealth that would be completely overwhelming to a TWF possibilities

[Greenish]

TWF isn't compulsory for rogues. Instead spending a feat/level to get the curve blade, one could just use a rapier and a buckler, say.

Cleave is very situational, and best in situations you don't really need to spend feats for: multiple weak monsters.


Though there are probably better ways to boost skill checks than boosting the relevant ability score, and even strength focus doesn't mean you have to completely dump dex.

[Tetrasodium]

TWF isn't compulsory for rogues. Instead spending a feat/level to get the curve blade, one could just use a rapier and a buckler, say.

Cleave is very situational, and best in situations you don't really need to spend feats for: multiple weak monsters.


Though there are probably better ways to boost skill checks than boosting the relevant ability score, and even strength focus doesn't mean you have to completely dump dex.
The fighter levels bump the BaB a bit unlocking the +6 BaB needed for some feats sooner.It could also toss in an eventual combat expertise>whirlwind attack as well (or instead). Either way, combines with things like pressure points (decide to add -1 dex or strength along with your sneak attack damage when making one), or potentially one of the other rogue talents like dispelling strike (or one of the ones that limits what the victim can do) it has the potential to be pretty useful. Plus (and most importantly) I like the flavor of the 2H curve blade over the 1H rapier :) Mainly I decided not to include whirlwind because it's a full round action and makes the combat mobility (mobility+high acrobatics*) harder to take advantage of. 16 seemed like a reasonable strength too, the damage difference between strength and dex based finesse doesn't seem like a huge difference while still keeping dex good for skills/ac without big armor check penalties when you factor in the sneak attack damage and rogue talent effects it brings. Also lunge gives an extra 5 feet of range to melee attacks letting cleave be useful even when you don't threaten someone (like if mookB is behind mookB or something:)

* you can use acrobatics to deal with difficult terrain or even do things like tumble through an "occupied square". Ultimate combat even has a feat that lets you make a free attack with +2 circumstance bonus to hit when acrobatics through an occupied square :)

[Larpus]

I'm on the fence over the Weapon Finesse thing, as mentioned, you can possibly get more out of going Str as it will also help with damage (and free you up a feat slot), once you start pumping DEX, you most probably will have enough ranks in the skills for it to not make a huge difference (not like your Dex would be low anyway). Besides, going "brute rogue" you can grab a weapon with better damage die, such as the greatsword As for AC, it starts to get lose relevancy by level 5-ish, so I wouldn't place too much importance into that.

As for Cleave, it has been changed in PF, it gives you an extra attack at an standard action, but it ought to be against a second target who is also within reach. Still situational (and most probably better for a tanker type, who wouldn't mind much to be in the fray), but less than the 3.5 version.

Anyway, onto the build itself:

That weapon isn't bad at all, however its main draw is the crit-range, so not seeing Improved Critical there so you crit 1/4 of the time seems like a waste.

Also Weapon Focus is a poor feat, I wouldn't get it at all.

And for Advanced Talent what you want is Crippling Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---rogue-advanced-talents/crippling-strike-ex), yeah, that's one nice talent. Get it, use it, love it and take it to a nice dinner.

[Tetrasodium]

Also Weapon Focus is a poor feat, I wouldn't get it at all.


I agree crippling strike is cool, I'm on the fence about it* after ultimate combat though with it letting you take a ninja talent... with one of the talents (pressure points) giving you the ability to tack on -1 dex or strength onto sneak attacks. Sure -2 is better than -1, but it's not like there aren't some other cool optons for ad talents between crb/apc/uc & whatever else comes out by the time it will matter.

technically the weapon training (focus) is't using a feat slot, it gies the feat by taking the rogue talent. I do have some open feat slots that improved crit could potentially fit into as well, I didn't want to fill in the unused fest slots and discourage suggestions. Looking back, I probably should have left weapon training's slot blank for the same reason

*it's not likely to matter any time soon gien that it's like 9 levels off or something

[Talentless]

I agree crippling strike is cool, I'm on the fence about it* after ultimate combat though with it letting you take a ninja talent... with one of the talents (pressure points) giving you the ability to tack on -1 dex or strength onto sneak attacks. Sure -2 is better than -1, but it's not like there aren't some other cool optons for ad talents between crb/apc/uc & whatever else comes out by the time it will matter.

technically the weapon training (focus) is't using a feat slot, it gies the feat by taking the rogue talent. I do have some open feat slots that improved crit could potentially fit into as well, I didn't want to fill in the unused fest slots and discourage suggestions. Looking back, I probably should have left weapon training's slot blank for the same reason

*it's not likely to matter any time soon gien that it's like 9 levels off or something

There are better rogue talents than one that mimics weapon(focus) though... :smallconfused:

[Tetrasodium]

There are better rogue talents than one that mimics weapon(focus) though... :smallconfused:

suggestions? ;). Most of them seemed a little less obvious in the benefit's use.

[Thespianus]

Is the feat Telling Blow available? It would let you apply sneak attack damage on a critical hit. It's situational, but kinda fun, especially with the Keen enhancement on your weapon.

(I have only 3.5 knowledge, so if this stuff isn't applicable in PF, I'm sorry )

[Tetrasodium]

Is the feat Telling Blow available? It would let you apply sneak attack damage on a critical hit. It's situational, but kinda fun, especially with the Keen enhancement on your weapon.

(I have only 3.5 knowledge, so if this stuff isn't applicable in PF, I'm sorry )

Not that I can see in core rulebook, advanced player's guide, or ultimate combat. The vital strike feat has an improved & greater version opening up at BaB+11 & +16. Basically each tier lets you make a single attack t your highest BaB and roll the weapon damage dice 2x(vs) 3x(ivs) 4x(gvs) adding them together so 1d10+1.5 str+sneak+weapon effect becomes xd10+1.5 str+sneak+weapon effects with them :). Between that and cleave it gives some nice options that flow better with the the weapon, partially minimize the impact of the potential damage loss from going with skill useful dex/finessable curvebade since it only gets added 1.5 times with a good chance of hitting instead of full attack action number of times with less and less chance of hitting through the attack series. One crunchy baddie with lots of armor? Vital strike>boom. One not so crunchie baddie>full attack for multiple sneaks & weapon effects. multiple baddies? Acrobatics through them (if need be) for flank & cleave with sneak on them and back out of their immediate range with spring attack before you end your turn. Something near but not adjacent? lunge gives you +5ft reach on any of those things above :)

[Larpus]

Vital Strike is a nice little feat, not a must have in my book, but it sounds like a decent enough choice if you can squeeze it in, though it shines more with double diced weapons, like greatsword. Still, I don't think it's a bad feat.

As for Rogue Talents, there are a bunch of nice ones, but nothing ground-breaking:

- Canny Observer: A nice Perception bonus, decent choice if there's no one better at Perception than you and/or your DM is a trap nut.

- Fast Stealth: Good if you plan to stealth often and rely on that, waste otherwise.

- Follow Clues: Good if you don't have a tracker in the party and the DM constantly makes you track enemies down.

- Positioning Attack: Can be useful to get into a tricky flanking position, once/day hurts it badly, if it were something like once/2 or 3 levels it would be totally awesome.

- Powerful Sneak: Unless you're totally lucky with your dies, this can come in actually useful, though I'd save it 'till I have about 5 Sneak Attack dies before giving this real consideration.

- Resiliency: Depending on how much your DM likes to leave everyoen in the red, this can be the difference between new sheet and just sitting a few rounds 'till someone can stabilize you.

- Intimidating Prowess: Is nice if you're the party's face and is constantly using Intimidate.

- Trap Spotter: Again, good for trap-happy DMs, this is even better really since you no longer have to say "I check for traps" every 5 seconds.

[Rixx]

Half-elves can switch out their Skill Focus for a free Martial or Exotic weapon proficiency, so that's also something to consider for race options.

[MeeposFire]

Vital strike is bad. It gets worse as you level. If you try to keep up you have to spend two more feats to deal less damage than a full attack. It would be better to spend resources in trying to improve your chances of a full attack especially since that means more sneak attack.

[Tetrasodium]

Vital strike is bad. It gets worse as you level. If you try to keep up you have to spend two more feats to deal less damage than a full attack. It would be better to spend resources in trying to improve your chances of a full attack especially since that means more sneak attack.

any other suggestions for it instead? even with a +1/1 bab class like fighter, later strikes in the chain frequently miss & any DR on the target is effectively multiplied with a full round attack chain

[MeeposFire]

any other suggestions for it instead? even with a +1/1 bab class like fighter, later strikes in the chain frequently miss & any DR on the target is effectively multiplied with a full round attack chain

Let me put it to you this way.

On any given attack your damage bonus will be equal so they cancel out. If you spend two feats on vital strike you deal a base damage of 3D10 compared to 1D10. On average you gained 11 points of damage or 5.5 per feat. If you managed to pick up a way to give you an extra attack or a full attack in a round then you deal more damage just by SA and possibly from static mods alone. I am not a PF expert but if there is a way to get your full attack off more often (or just getting a second attack in a round that is likely to hit) then you are doing better than vital strike.

[Tetrasodium]

Let me put it to you this way.

On any given attack your damage bonus will be equal so they cancel out. If you spend two feats on vital strike you deal a base damage of 3D10 compared to 1D10. On average you gained 11 points of damage or 5.5 per feat. If you managed to pick up a way to give you an extra attack or a full attack in a round then you deal more damage just by SA and possibly from static mods alone. I am not a PF expert but if there is a way to get your full attack off more often (or just getting a second attack in a round that is likely to hit) then you are doing better than vital strike.

it can be spring attacked in/out while a full attack cannot thuough

[ericgrau]

You can also use power attack and so on with a rapier that's nothing new. What's new is a little more damage. I wouldn't use power attack with a low attack bonus high damage character though; you're often losing more than you gain, or at best slightly better than breaking even. The damage is less helpful and the misses more painful. Power attack is best when you have a high attack bonus and low damage. Might be worth it for cleave though, and then you might as well power attack at very low levels before your damage goes up and your attack bonus hasn't fallen too far behind yet. Even then it won't help much, but you have it anyway so might as well. In a few levels it'd likely become worse than nothing for reasons stated and I'd stop PAing against anything with a shred of AC. Later you could grab furious focus and that'd help very nicely on your single attacks, but still not worth it on full attacks.

If I were to do it I might use the fighter dip for heavy armor and focus on strength rather than dex. Then start picking feats like weapon focus, vital strike and other such good melee feats. Ya cleave is an option too. Or I'd wear light armor and weapon finesse while still having on ok strength, and then only if I wanted the ability to tumble, balance and jump (all acrobatics in PF) to set up flanks. It's impossible to make all your attacks full attacks, at least as a rogue, which is why vital strike is so good. You only use it on maybe half of the rounds, 1/3 ideally, but even then the extra damage is so big it's worth it. At worst I'd debate between it and another feat. Given how fragile rogues are spring attack might be a good idea too, but it is correct that it does not work with vital strike.

[MeeposFire]

it can be spring attacked in/out while a full attack cannot thuough

No it can't. 3.5 vital strike would work with spring attack but in PF it does not. In PF spring attack is a special full round action that involves an attack (but not an attack action which is what vital strike is). This is one reason why I hate PF spring attack.

Now if you can convince your DM to allow the 3.5 spring attack (which uses an attack action) then things become interesting as you can use vital strike with it and can spend feats to make extra attacks at the same time (best of both worlds).

[Paul H]

Hi

I've been looking at another build - Synthesist/Ninja. (For PFS campaign).

Synthesist's are such a good brute force melee type it's difficult to know just when to bug out and go Ninja. (Both use Cha as primary stat, Synthesist for spells. Ninjas for Ki points).

Not saying it's the best option, just something I'm looking at. (4 armed Ninja using two Curved Blades each round, using Ki points for an extra attack)!

Thanks
Paul H

[Sarone]

Vital Strike is good if you are moving around alot or expecting to attack/get attacked by low hd enemies.

It's situational, but there are times, especially if you're taking on a fast moving oppnent, that you really want your hit to count. That's shy Vital Strike it useful.

[Paul H]

Hi

Arcane Strike allows all your attacks to count as magical, plus do extra damage based on CL.

Thanks
Paul H
PS What level you starting at?
PPS Agreeing with Meeposfire, the Synthesist does grant extra attacks (extra arms), but you still have to factor in what I get/what I lost from all those non-Ninja/Rogue levels.

[Tetrasodium]

Hi

Arcane Strike allows all your attacks to count as magical, plus do extra damage based on CL.

Thanks
Paul H
PS What level you starting at?
PPS Agreeing with Meeposfire, the Synthesist does grant extra attacks (extra arms), but you still have to factor in what I get/what I lost from all those non-Ninja/Rogue levels.

starting at 3. Arcane strike requires the ability to cast arcane spells, I guess the minor magic talent could fit that bill if i took that... but the bonus is based off caster level & the bonus would only ever be +1(+1 more/5 caster levels neer advances for a rogue) & require constant swift actions to apply it whenever I wanted it. Synthesyst is one of the summoner options right?... doesn't really syynergize into the build :(

[Paul H]

Hi

Yes - as I said, Synthesist is a Summoner option, but it does grant some amazing benefits.

Problem is balancing just how far you go down that route vs your Rogue/Ninja type abilities, and remain within concept? A trade off has be made somewhere.

Thanks
Paul H

[Tetrasodium]

Hi

Yes - as I said, Synthesist is a Summoner option, but it does grant some amazing benefits.

Problem is balancing just how far you go down that route vs your Rogue/Ninja type abilities, and remain within concept? A trade off has be made somewhere.

Thanks
Paul H

While I agree that t really does wear a rogue/ninja label well(extremely high mobility, decent to good single/very short (5ft reach) or dual-adjacent with melee dps not crippled by higher ac targets as badly as a twf build is). the recent ninja class addition to PF kind of changes the label into something that doesn't really fit since the new ninja class is kind of a different style of ninja. And thanks for giving me a reason to make that clarification, making me realize a weakness (dual non-adjacent targets) making me remember a pair of feats that allow push/pull making me remember an apg/uc(?) feat to address those that I need to fnd and look into the feasability of them:)

[Tetrasodium]

the push/pull thing doesn't look like it would be possible, or even fit with the rest of the stuff. There re feats to push/pull with w whip, ranged critical, and for ki pool having monks i.e. (PF monks), some of them are part of another feat tree, would require levels in a badly meshing class or involve luck and another weapon. Having the PDFs open to feats made me do some more digging and find (I think) a few potentially awesome feats and a seemingly meh rogue trick that makes them freaking awesome



Agile maneuvers (CRB)
- Basically finesse for CMB (grapple/trip/etc)

Wind stance (crb), dodge, dex15
-If you move more than 5 feet this turn, you gain 20% concealment for 1 round against ranged attacks. (meh... but keep reading)
Lightning Stance crb. Dodge, dex17, wind stance
If you take two actions to move or a withdrawaction in a turn, you gain 50% concealment for 1 round.!

Rogue Talent: Fast Getaway (Ex): After successfully making a sneak attack or Sleight of Hand check, a rogue with this talent can spend a move action to take the withdraw action. She can move no more than her speed during this movement.

Withdraw (not a feat, just a regular action)
Withdrawing from melee combat is a full-round action.When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed. The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies
do not get attacks of opportunity against you when youmove from that square. Invisible enemies still get attacks of opportunity against you, and you can’t withdraw from combat if you’re blinded. You can’t take a 5-foot step during the same round in which you withdraw.
up to2x AoO free movement speed with a 1 round 50% concealment buff or 20% against ranged attacks with 5ft or more movement* kinda makes for some awesome possibilities.

*5ft is super easy when you can acrobatics through opponents for flank & such type positioning

on second thought... lightning stance seems like the sort of thing likely to invoke DM wrath and make it harder to attempt to protect squishier types. 50% conceal is great sure, but it doesn't do much good when the DM stops targeting him eer and goes straight for the wizard/cleric types

[stack]

Regarding the original post, scimitar with dervish dance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat) would let you get Dex to hit and to damage with a scimitar, which you can also two-hand. Dex-to-damage beats the curve blade.

[Larpus]

starting at 3. Arcane strike requires the ability to cast arcane spells, I guess the minor magic talent could fit that bill if i took that... but the bonus is based off caster level & the bonus would only ever be +1(+1 more/5 caster levels neer advances for a rogue) & require constant swift actions to apply it whenever I wanted it. Synthesyst is one of the summoner options right?... doesn't really syynergize into the build :(
Another thing that might be worth noticing (though it can be argued that he can't get Arcane Strike since he doesn't cast his spells) is the Alchemist, you won't get the crazy benefits from Synthesist, who nets impressive physical stats for a 2 level dip (or considerably more than than with a 5-6 dip) and other goodies (if you go 5-6 you get Haste, yeah, you'd like that, wouldn't you?).

Anyway, back on Alchemist, he does get arcane spellcasting of sorts (his spells take the form of the potion-like extracts, so check with the DM if he allows him to grab Arcane Strike, I'd allow it), you get some fun toys to play with, such as the various discoveries (which can be potentially better than some Rogue Talents), Brew Potion (worth more if your DM allows other casters to cast the spell while you prepare the potion), poison use (if you're into that) and mutagen, which is somewhat of a smaller Barbarian Rage, less bonuses but also less minuses.

Oh yeah, and some bonus points since Alchemist has the Vivisectionist archetype which gives you sneak attack in the place of the normal bombs and not only it stacks with Rogue (it's specifically mentioned that it does), but also it's the same progression, so you won't lose your progression.

Also, another nice trick is that with the Feral Mutagen discovery, you get 2 1d6 Claw attacks and a 1d8 Bite attack whenever your mutagen is active (it stays on for 10min/[alchemist]level), which gives you what you were asking for: a quick and cheap (BAB-wise) way to get multiple attacks, since those are natural attacks, you can, as early as Alchemist lvl2 make 3 attacks on a full attack all at full BAB; the downside is that it's quite expensive to get them magical properties (though it's cheaper than 3 weapons and only a bit more expensive than 2) and you don't get more attacks for high BAB but hey, 3 is as good as you'd get anyway!

[Telasi]

Dervish Dance requires you to wield your weapon one-handed with a free off hand, so you have to choose Dex to damage or 1.5x damage. Personally, I'd go Dervish Dance and pick up Crane Style from UC for melee attack deflection 1/round.

UC added some buff options to Vital Strike as well, iirc, you can get feats to automatically apply a combat maneuver when you use it in addition to the other effects.

On the subject of Vital Strike sucking/being awesome, I've found it pretty handy. Talk to your GM; reasonable ones often houserule that it's usable on a charge and in a Spring Attack. Point out that casters can already do most everything with a standard action and that you're spending multiple feats for it.

[Tetrasodium]

No it can't. 3.5 vital strike would work with spring attack but in PF it does not. In PF spring attack is a special full round action that involves an attack (but not an attack action which is what vital strike is). This is one reason why I hate PF spring attack.

Now if you can convince your DM to allow the 3.5 spring attack (which uses an attack action) then things become interesting as you can use vital strike with it and can spend feats to make extra attacks at the same time (best of both worlds).

it looks like this is a case of RAI vrs RAW choice including an official adventure path that makes uses it (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq#TOC-Vital-Strike-8-20-10-) the faq link fas a pretty good summary. Plus spring attack gives you a "single melee attack", and vital strike is certainly a "single attack" by RAW with it being a "single melee attack" if you are using a non-thrown melee weapon to make that melee attack making it possible by a similar level of "technically" as not. spring+VS, sure... spring+cleave, cleave is technically two attacks

[Siosilvar]

it looks like this is a case of RAI vrs RAW choice including an official adventure path that makes uses it (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq#TOC-Vital-Strike-8-20-10-) the faq link fas a pretty good summary. Plus spring attack gives you a "single melee attack", and vital strike is certainly a "single attack" by RAW with it being a "single melee attack" if you are using a non-thrown melee weapon to make that melee attack making it possible by a similar level of "technically" as not. spring+VS, sure... spring+cleave, cleave is technically two attacks

From your link:
(Errata 8/20/10) The spring attack feat has been changed in the 8/20/2010 Errata to be a Full-Round action. This prevents one from using Spring Attack and vital strike together.

[Tetrasodium]

From your link:

yes I saw that, but I think an eratta that conflicts with usage in an official adventure path (also detailed in that link where it suggests that it sounds great) is sufficiently into the realm of "technically" to justify the "technically it's a single melee attack too" without splitting hairs.
Edit: and with more searching, it looks like (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/rules/officalAnswers&page=4#178) they work together:




The game works fine either way. The rules as I see them state that Spring Attack and Vital Strike don't work together, but letting them work together is probably better for the game.

For now, though, the original ruling stands. (But I'll certainly be letting Spring Attack and Vital Strike work together in my personal games!)
So how come a npc uses this under her tactics in PF#30? This does indeed indicate there is a need of a FAQ.

#1: You win the internet for today!

#2:Because it's a good tactic. And because when I'm developing an adventure, I go with my gut more often than a microexaminaiton of every single rule... because that's the only way to get APs out on a monthly schedule. And because, as I've mentioned above, letting Spring Attack and Vital Strike work together is cool.

Since you found precedence where the two feats work together in print, LET THAT BE THE LAW!

Vital Strike and Spring Attack were made to be together, after all. :-)


So anyways... back to rogue stuff! ;)

[MeeposFire]

Seeing what Paizo generally writes no I am not surprised that they wrote an adventure path with something breaking their own rules. Their level of system mastery and knowledge is low. Incorrect use in an adventure path is more likely a mistake than RAI especially since "attack actions" are one of the most forgotten/misused rules in the game hence why people think that you can use all sorts of things together that you can't and that goes back to 3e as well.

Little things like these are the reason that people think haste works with eldritch glaive or that you can use flashing sun in conjunction with time stands still in ToB. Action types are crucial.

EDIT: Your link once again proves that RAW and RAI was for them not to work but he does say that it is a fair houserule so are you going to get that houserule?