Vivisectionist 3.5/3.P/PF

[TurtleKing]

Ok I have a character idea but need some help making a 3.5, 3.P, and a PF version of this character. I do what to see a builds going all the way to level 20 but want to keep everything simple as possible that also falls into certain limitations. Don't want ToB or Incarnum and for the PF only Core, APC, Ulimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, and Inner Sea Guide are allowed.

The character loves to cook and experiment coming up with some great new and delicious dishes. To pull this off he is a Mad Scientist/Alchemist experimenting with various flora and fauna. In terms of fauna he will use any part of the body so long as it won't cause him harm. This could mean he is a cannibal for example part of an Elf eye in his mystery sauce. He keeps a Creature Compendium of the creatures he has researched and observed containg a small sketch, "stats" (observed), details about lifestyle, and areas can be found. The Creature Compendium also contains what parts of the body are great for what dishes as well a few of his other concoctions. He travels around learning about the different creatures and experimenting with them. He hunts them with traps and poison using spell and sword as a last resort or finishing blow. He is also interested in what parts of a creature help increase aspects of the body for example what part(s) that can increase potency. Alignment is Neutral Evil most likely.

Ok for the 3 builds the have the Mad Scientist theme that experiments with fauna and flora to make food and increase aspects of the body. Spell and Sword are not the prefered means of fighting since want to keep the target mostly intact. Due to this find what can kill/incapitate without significant damage to the target. Ex: Save or Suck/ Save or Die, etc. Optimisation at least moderate keeping in line with the concept. For the magical/mundane items list the price so can know what can afford.

Want one to be all 3.5. Would probably be classes and PrCs like Factotum, Artificer, Bardic Knack, and Chamelon. Looking for suggestions on feats, spells, skills, and items be it magical and mundane.

The 3.P can be a combination between the 2 other builds.

As for the Pathfinder seems like I have already narrowed some of it down to Alchemist Archtype Vivisectionist. What I want help with from there is what traits, formulaes, feats, discoveries, skills, and items magical/mundane should get to fit the concept.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've found this guide very helpful for alchemist building. Don't know if it's been updated with Ultimate Combat's new stuff or not, but it's definitely got solid advice.

Ogre's Alchemist Build Guide (http://pathfinder.ogrehut.com/2010/07/alchemist-build-guide/)

[The Gilded Duke]

Two new feats in Ultimate Combat that would seem to fit your character really well are "Sap Adept" and "Sap Master". Doing nonlethal sneak attacks to just knock out your enemies leaves more victims to experiment on after the battle and turn into monkey men and frogs.

Sap Adept gives you a bonus on sap damage rolls equal to 2x Sneak Attack Dice
Sap Master lets you roll your sneak attack damage twice and total it.

By the end that's +20 damage +20d6 SA on your sap.

[Geigan]

I would think poison would be a poor choice for a cook as poisoning your own ingredients can tend to spoil a dish's flavor. Unless you have some sort of tranquilizer that doesn't spoil the meat. Though whether the muscles or other parts of the body are made slack by the sedative even past death and whether that's a good or bad thing depends on what you're cooking.

[TurtleKing]

Ok I'll add some of what I have found. Note that all parts concerning bombs in regards to the 3.P and PF builds do not apply for switched those out for Sneak Attack. Interested the various SAs that disable since I don't want to puree.

Pathfinder Formulae list (weigh in on them of what you think)
Level 1:
Ant Haul-pieces of fauna and flora are not always light
Comprehend Languages-didn't say the guy is a recluse if anything the opposite of that
Crafter's Fortune-for when he wants a masterpiece
Cure Light Wounds-the world is dangerous so best be prepared
Disguise Self-not everyone is too kind when they find out they are eating a member of their race...at that point time to lay low
Endure Elements-the ingredients won't always come to you...so you got to them
Expeditious Retreat-for when it is time to vacate or outrun the beast
Jump-for when you need to get to a hard to reach place
Negate Aroma-don't want your prey to smell you coming...or the search dogs after you
Reduce Person-great for when you need to hide or make your prey weaker
Shield-for when things get physical
Touch of the Sea-not all ingredients are on dry land
True Strike-when you need to hit this makes it so
Vocal Alteration-"No I don't sound like who you are searching for"
Level 2:
Acute Senses-for when you need to see or hear
Aid-great for when the crap has it the fan and you need to start swinging
Alchemical Allocation-"free" potion or elixir?
Alter Self-great for when I nedd a little STR, DEX, darkvision, low light vision, scent, and/or swim speed
Animal Aspect-to hunt the animal you first must be the animal
Barkskin-when you need extra protection other than armor and Shield
Bear/Bull/Cat/Eagle/Fox/Owl-great for when you need a boost to the body
Blur-for when the armor and co are not enough
Bullet Shield-against those guns you need bullet time reflexes
Darkvision-if you don't already have now you can hunt at night for ingredients
Delay Poison-for when you slipped or that snake said "Gotcha"
Detect Thoughts-when sight and hearing fail this shouldn't
Elemental Touch-fire=preheating while the rest have various uses
False Life-long lasting pre-heal
Invisibility-no can see me yea but wait I can get at least 1 sneak attack
Levitate-"can't touch this" also helps when getting in or out of high places
Protection from Arrows-I didn't say you coud shoot at me
Resist Energy-the anti elemental attack defense
Lesser Restoration-for when you can't wait to get back in the saddle
See Invisibility-for when its impossible to see
Spider Climb-when Levitate can't cut or work in combination
Vomit Swarm-spew your personal army
Level 3:
Absorbing Touch-when you need to hide an item
Absorb Toxicity-the gift that keeps on giving
Amplify Elixir-extend or empower potion or extracts
Beast Shape I-become the beast in form
Bloodhound-when you need to track the prey
Burrow-excavating anyone?
Displacement-"You missed...and again...again...and again"
Elemental Aura-"No you can't get close back I say Back!"
Fly-Superior means of getting to those hard to reach areas
Gaseous Form-"What do you mean I can't get in there?"
Greater Animal Aspect-become even more like the animal
Haste-"Beat Feet"
Heroism-long duration buff
Thorn Body-makes attack you hazardous
Tongues-Anyone knows what you sayin
Water Breathing-Stay underwater longer while you swim
Level 4:
Air Walk-many benefits of flight but longer
Fluid Form-for when you want to fight underwater
Freedom of Movement-nothing stopping me now
Greater Invisibility-shorter Invisibility but can attack each turn
Restoration-when you want what you lost physically or mentally
Spell Immunity-make spells of certain power mute
Stoneskin-expensive damage protection
Universal Formulae-that alround one when you don't have what you need otherwise
Level 5:
Delayed Consumption-hold an extract till you want the effect, LONG duration a must have
Elude Time-get out of anything card but you can't take any actions
Magic Jar-take control other people
Overland Flight-no need to walk again from one place to another
Level 6:
Form of the Dragon-become the greatest ingredient
Giant Form-large and in charge
Heal-when you need a Large pick me up
Twin Form-double the pleasure double the fun
Wind Walk-fast means of traveling from one location to another

Okay here is the 3.P and PF formulae list. See what you thing of those so can narrow it down a little.

Edit: Thanks for the posting that formulae list took a while. Nice on the sap feats I'll look into those but that is mostly only useful against humanoids but if can knock out a animal that way great. As for the poison yea that can be a problem so what poisons do you think could work without spoiling the "meat"?

[The Gilded Duke]

Nonlethal bludgeoning weapons work on anything that isn't immune to sneak attack or nonlethal damage. Most animals, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, magical beasts, and dragons fit under this category.

Isn't usable all the time sure, but its a damage boost comparable to a Smite or Challenge ability for the cost of a single feat. Even more of a damage boost with the second feat thrown in.

I think there is a feat in there that lets you do nonlethal with bludgeoning weapons at no penalties, in case you want to use a quarterstaff or something instead of a sap.

[Kellus]

I have a thread that might be useful (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205119) if you don't mind homebrew. :smallsmile:

[TurtleKing]

While that did look interesting I am limited to 5 books on the PF side and most on the 3.5 side. Though if pulling from 3.5 I don't want to dive through to many books.

[The Gilded Duke]

If you are using 3.5 as well, pick up Craven from Champions of Ruin.
Add your level to damage on all sneak attacks. It would stack with Sap Adept.
Also you should feel free to use injury poisons. If the poison is injury only, consuming it has no effect.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/poison

Has a good list of injury poisons.
Poisons use craft alchemy to make, and you get a bonus on that from your class levels. Craft DC = Fort DC

[TurtleKing]

OK so for the 3.5 Craven helps me take them down. The 3.P could combine with the Sap feats for a ton of damage without while leaving the body mostly intact. So injury poison won't spoil/contaminate the "meat". So would likely coat the Bear Trap with the poison for when they get caught. I also saw somewhere that could change the type of poison from one thing to another. Any good poison that could use while on a budget?

[The Gilded Duke]

If you want to bring in Dreamscarred psionics, you could use Use Magic Device to activate a dorje of Ectoplasmic Creation. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/e/ectoplasmic-creation

And then use it to make Black Lotus Extract. As far as poisons in general, the best guide (unfortunately only 3.5) would be Akal's poison handbook.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?action=printpage;topic=4854.0

[TurtleKing]

Thanks but DM doesn't want Psionics.

As for the poisons they are more of just a tool to help bring down the target without damaging it too much. Same for spells that he might use. The main focus is experimenting in what dishes he can create as well how he can alter the body. So that means some form of transformations or even grafts. Bonus points if it by consuming food. So what kind of grafts can you get in 3.5. I know about the ones in Libris Mortis, and no I don't want those. I think there is some in Races of the Dragon, but are those the only ones? I am also looking into making items out of body parts. I am not sure on how to do that without having to pull from a Dragon Magazine. Oh yea Dragon Magazine is questionable at best as to whether it is allowed or not.

[TurtleKing]

Anybody have any suggestions.

[The Gilded Duke]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?action=printpage;topic=12154.0

Also, ultimate magic has some wonderfully flavorful alchemist discoveries.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries
Tumor familiar, the extra arms, vestigial twin, tentacles, wings etc.

No psionics is too bad, its the easiest way to get minor creation. It is also a summoner and sorc wizard spell, but for them it is I think 4th level at the earliest. I don't know of any way to get that added to your spell list.

If you can somehow get the service of a Djinn, that would also work. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/genie/djinni
All their created vegetable matter is permanent duration. Would get you a permanent supply of black lotus extract.

Usual method is planar binding, but alchemists don't really do that. Maybe see if a wizard can help? Or some sort of leadership abuse?

[TurtleKing]

I know about Ultimate Magic's discoveries that help me pull it off. The Pathfinder and 3.P build that uses PF as the main part are set in that regard. THe 3.5 build however isn't for not sure which grafts are viable considering the setting. The area we are in is being colonized with resource gathering as the goal. Much in the same way as the English did in the 1600s when they came to the Americas. Couple that with the homeworld has no creatures other than the civilized races-humans, elves, dwarves, etc.- and animals including dinosaurs. So the main problem if I use that build in the setting is probably lack of knowledge as well as lack of suitable creatures to base it off of. I am also not too sure just how to pull of the grafting as well the mechanics of it.

Is there any other way to get a permanent supply of vegetable matter? Such as could I get a Eternal Wand of the a Minor Creation Spell aka is it possible?

[TurtleKing]

Ok I have done some thinking after looking back over some of the classes that could work for a 3.5 build. The Artificer could pull it off with Construct grafting so as to try to mimic.

Oh yea the reason for augmenting the body is to improve upon it, and if he comes across a creature that is just fantastic then might even try to mimic it. In one way that would be like getting only draconic grafts.

If going Artificer then that helps with several other things like getting an Eternal wand of Minor Creation to make poisons. Overall an Artificer is just obvious as base class for 3.5.

So anyone know how to take it from there and run with it in regards to feats, spells?, and items?

[TurtleKing]

Hello? Anyone know how to make an Artificer that pull this off? Seriously what does it take to get a response. Don't want this to end as Thread Necromancy while still building this character.

Oh anyone want to provide input on the extract list for the PF and 3.P builds? Would like to weed it down to about 21 extracts that I can take just from leveling plus an optional list of extracts to take if possible.

[N. Jolly]

I've found this guide very helpful for alchemist building. Don't know if it's been updated with Ultimate Combat's new stuff or not, but it's definitely got solid advice.

Ogre's Alchemist Build Guide (http://pathfinder.ogrehut.com/2010/07/alchemist-build-guide/)

I didn't much care for his guide, it felt unfinished to me.

[TurtleKing]

Same here but the sad fact is the only one I can find. According to the guide and being a Vivisectionist Alchemist I have to follow more of the Mr. Hyde type since I don't get bombs period.

[Larpus]

Yeah, it's quite unfinished, but it's a decent insight on the class.

Being a Vivisectionist doesn't mean you have to be a Mr.Hyde, he just meant that Mr.Hydes benefit more from Vivisectionist than vanilla Alchemist, since they'll get more out of sneak attack than they can ever take from Bombs; also, this frees up Discovery slots to grab things like Spointaneous Healing and Feral Mutagen, both of which are impervious in order to make a decently durable Mr.Hyde.

Anyway, back on Vivisectionist, never forget that you can actually get sneak attacks with ranged weapons (trickier tho), so going melee is not mandatory. Basically, what I'd do is to think and build the character more as a Rogue than as a caster or anything like that, even more than the normal Alchemist.

[TurtleKing]

Excellent, excellent. You have a good point. The damage from sneak attacks would require you to be in close range though. The way to remedy to that is just lock them down somehow such as with a Bear Trap so they can't move making sneak attacks easier though not guarented. Arrows and the like also by dealing precision damage by their very nature don't damage the body that much structually. So in that case should be looking to making more of a ranged sneak attacker as a finishing strike.

I also agree that the Mr. Hyde build helps quite a bit there, but the focus is more on a brute who just mangles the target destroying the body. I'll prefer a more of a build in that regard that can just sting the target to fight.

So that is more for the 3.P and PF builds. Does no one want to take a crack at the list of extracts above?

While at it how about the Artificer? Any viable way to pull that one off?

[Larpus]

Well, if you don't want to cause too much waste, you can grab the Tentacle discovery or the Grapple feats in order to pin things without destroying.

Also, never forget that through Craft (Alchemy) you can create the web bag thing to entangle everyone down.

[TurtleKing]

Which is great. The only question is when should I get the discovery. Should I get it as soon as possible or wait a little before getting those?

Plus someone mind putting their suggestions for my 21-25 extracts list as well a optional extract list?

Edit: Just rolled my stats before racial modifers and yes the group I'm in uses 4d6 drop lowest style. They are Str 15, Dex 18, Con 11, Int 14, Wis 6, Cha 10. These stats alone I think exemplifies the character considering he is a little bit off and a Mr. Hyde. I debating between Boggle in which would rearrange Str and Dex. Oh yea the stats aren't set in stone...yet. This is especially true if I use this as an NPC if and when I DM. The other races are Ratkin, Halfling with the Practicality alternate racial, Gnome, and of course Human. So I have the Boggle, Gnome, Halfling, Human, and Ratkin as my current choices. Which race and part of the decision making is the flavor not just mechanics.

[Larpus]

First, about your stats, I'd switch Str and Dex, since higher Str will help you in damage (for when you need to go medieval), hit and also with CMB to grapple/pin things. And ask your DM if you can drop the 15 to 14 and increase the 11 to 12, but that would depend on how are the other people's stats.

Likewise, I'd consider switching Wis and Cha, Cha is quite the dumpstat by default unless you actually need it, which you don't; plus, your Will save is low, so having 6 Wis can and most probably will hurt you pretty badly. If it's about skills like Handle Animal, burn a feat on Skill Focus instead, I personally think that's better than having a default -2 on a weak (and the most important IMHO) save.

Another thing to consider is that a friend commented on a feat that allows you to never kill anyone/anything, as in, whenever you'd deal enough damage to bring the creature below 0 HP, then it ignores all damage that would make it go beyond 0 and just make it faint. However, I searched for it in the SRD and couldn't find it (not even sure it's PF).

As for the Discoveries, depends on your DM really, but if it were me I'd grab the bigger priority ones, you know, those that will make you last longer or hurt badder, Tentacles sound pretty useful, but I'm not sure how useful Grapple is overall.

Also, I'm not sure if you're planning to, but Infusion might really help you out if there is no one else to buff the party, but since your spell progression is slow, I wouldn't put too much hurry on grabbing it since it's unlikely that you have more than a single go of your buffs per day on the lower levels.

Anyway, on to extracts, here are my two cents, but don't hold my opinion too high since I'm still quite new to this whole spell deal.

1st Level
Ant Haul: Very situational and most probably not worthy a level-up pick, but there are uses to this and in these cases this is very useful.

Comprehend Languages: Especially if there is no one else capable of casting this, you'll definitely want this on your book; you won't prepare it often, but as a wand it can be very handy for when it's needed. Not a level-up pick by any means (unless you have nothing better to grab), but a moderate priority one when you're grabbing extra formulae around.

Cure Light Wounds: Useful, probably even a level-up pick. You won't prepare it at all, unless you have extra slots for the day and you're heading to bed, but having this in your book allows you to use CLW wands, and that's the reason why you'd want this.

Disguise Self: Not the best spell in the world, but I always grab this on any learned caster I play since it has lots of use in more social situations. Alchemists are already rogue wizards, so why not embrace your rogue side closer?

Enlarge Person: Your 1st level bread and butter buff, you want and need this, no two ways about it, even ignoring the damage increase, you'll want so you can wrestle bigger critters on even grounds.

Identify: If your DM is kinda strict on how he handles the magic items this is useful, otherwise a useless spell and easy pass.

Negate Aroma/Touch of the Sea: Even more situational than Ant Haul, only worth picking up at all for free or if there's a high probability they'll ever pop into play, such as a DM who often frustrates stealthy attempts with Scent users or an aquatic adventure in the latter's case.

Shield: Nice low level buff, the +4 can truly help you before level 5 or so, the short duration hurts it tho, if it were hours/level as Mage Armor it would be just incredible. Anyway, makes for a nice wand or ring with charges.

Vocal Alteration: Not a must, but rounds of Disguise Self very nicely, you'll want this if the adventure is kinda heavy on the social/stealth department.

2nd Level
Alchemical Allocation: The absolute best Alchemist extract hands down. Due to how potion works, this can easily screw spell levels over and turn a single 2nd level slot into a 3rd level one. Also there is a nice synergy with Extend/Eternal Potion, but both discoveries are only worthy if your DM makes it hard to find potions brewed at a high caster level (Eternal is absolutely golden with short-term buffs, but its limitations + the 2 discoveries tax makes it only worthy if Extend will also be useful).

Alter Self: There are some nice abilities to be had with this one, so the versatility alone is a nice plus, but is only a must if either such abilities are constantly needed through the adventure or if the DM allows you to morph into a medium humanoid (being medium yourself) and still grab the +2 Str, since it can be taken to meaning that it only does this when going from small to medium.

Barskin: Doesn't stack with Mutagen, which is a true shame, if your DM allows it to stack (by considering that Mutagen grants you the Natural Armor, not a bonues), then it's a must have, otherwise I'd skip it, by the time it's better than your Mutagen, AC is starting to get useless (and +1 is not worth a cast instead of Alchemical Allocation).

Bear's Endurance: Since you have other priorities for your magic items before Con, this one will live longer than any other Animal Buff.

Blood Transcription: Very good way to grab new spells, I'd grab it and at first try to leave an extract not prepared to use it if I down a caster and then wand it at a later level.

Blur: Nice defensive bonus, especially at the later levels when AC starts to get irrelevant since the miss chance remains useful.

Bull's Strength: Chances are this will become obsolete due to a worn magic item fast, still when you first get it, it'll most probably be very nice to have.

Darkvision: You most shouldn't grab this on a level up (unless there's nothing better), but Darkvision is the most useful extra effect from Alter Self, and the hour/level duration makes it shine at higher levels.

Detect Thoughts: Can be pretty useful, not only as a way to read minds, but also to know how many people are around. Still, short duration + your small amount of extract slots means that it's not something that you'd want as a level-up pick, but eventually grab to use wands or something.

False Life: Good if you want more HP, but if you're faring fine or you're really unlucky when rolling for spells, skip.

Invisibility: Always useful as a getaway, to position yourself on the battlefield, stealthy missions, etc.

Resist Energy: Can be useful; but I haven't faced anything yet where this would be useful with enough beforehand knowledge to prepare it, so I have no idea if it's truly good or not.

Restoration, Lesser: Depending on your DM, not high priority, but definitely something you'll want in your book eventually.

See Invisibility: Not something you'll ever prepare I believe, unless you're that paranoid, but it's worth a spot in your book to use wands of this or something when you think something invisible is around.

3rd Level
Absorbing Touch: There are some nice and inventive uses for this, mainly on prison escape scenarios or similar, but you only absorb non magical stuff, so it's very limited. But at a day/level duration, you can have it running nearly nonstop easily, so if your DM is somewhat prone to do "you're all equip-less" scenarios, this will prove itself useful.

Amplify Elixir: If your DM allows you to apply this to extracts, then you'll want this, not high priority since by the time you start using 3rd level extracts there are bigger punches to be thrown, but eventually you'll have the slots to use this.

Arcane Sight: Again, you'll want this so you can use wands with no check.

Displacement: Blur 2.0, you don't have Mirror Image, so you'll want this.

Eruptive Postules: Decent duration and makes anyone attacking you take some damage and save or suck, targets Fort, which is strong in most melee attackers, so not great, but not bad either.

Fly: Arguably better for ranged characters and full casters, but having the option to Fly is never bad.

Gaseous Form: Low priority, but useful to get into hard to get places, as in into a locked room.

Haste: Don't know why you wouldn't want this.

Heroism: Nice buff with decent duration, you'll want this and have it up as often as possible.

Marionette Possession: Targets Will, so it's useful to get rid of physically strong enemies with low Will. Use this on the enemy barbarian guy, cause some waste and then let a friend coup-de-grace you.

Polymorph into something I: The bonuses are kinda bad (as in, nothing you can't get out of Alter Self), but the possibilities for stealthing and disguising are great, grab the one useful for your adventure, forget the others.

Remove Blindness-Deafness/Curse/Disease: If no one else can do this (aka. there's no Cleric/Divine Guy) you'll want this, maybe not on level up, but buy them as scrolls or something. Otherwise, still nice to have, but just grab them as you go, very low priority if someone else can do this.

Seek Thoughts: Detect Thoughts 2.0, nice for gathering information, not high priority tho.

Tongues: Like Comprehend Languages.


Aaand that's how far as my considerations went, again, I'm rather new to this magic thing myself, so if I'm talking out of my behind here, please anyone feel free to correct me.

[TurtleKing]

I actually don't mind considering someone finally did put their two cents forth.

As for the extracts of the list acquired through leveling as well as my starting extracts in relation to colonizing a New World so far thinking of

Lvl 1: Cure Light Wounds, Crafter's Fortune, True Strike, Expeditios Retreat, Endure Elements, and Shield

Lvl 2: Animal Aspect, Alchemical Allocation, and Lesser Restoration

Lvl 3: Fly, Heroism, and Beast Shape I

Lvl 4: Greater Invisibility, Universal Formulae, and Freedom of Movement

Lvl 5: Delayed Consumption, Magic Jar, and Overland Flight

Lvl 6: Heal, Form of the Dragon I, Twin Form, ???, and ???

The optional list so far includes the rest, but will disregard some extracts if another can do a similar effect.

As for why I wanting my Dex higher than my Str is for ranged sneak attacks with a weapon like a bow. Reason being is ranged attacks tend to damage the body less. If I can't get a bow, and most use say a crossbow then will likely switch Str out with another. This of course dependent on which race I go with be it a Human, Boggle, Ratkin, Gnome, and Halfling. As for the low Wisdom I think it actually fits considering the guy is a bit off his rocker.

[Larpus]

Lvl 1: Cure Light Wounds, Crafter's Fortune, True Strike, Expeditios Retreat, Endure Elements, and Shield
Crafter's Fortune is a nice bonus, and I do think you should get it eventually, but a flat +5 on a single Craft check hurts it bad, its duration is very nice, so if you can get your DM to change it into "+5 to any Craft check for the duration" then ok, worth a spot (maybe not a level up spot, but a spot nevertheless).

Also, add to that the fact that chances are your only/main Craft is Alchemy, which you'll already receive a hefty bonus from class levels, plus Craft (Alchemy) benefits more from multiple small checks than a single big check, so Crafter's Fortune will lose effectiveness and use rather fast.

True Strike and Expeditious Retreat (and similar "get out of X situation" spells) both fall in the same category, they both have uses in specific situations (when you need to land an attack and run away, respectively), but such situations are hard/impossible to plan for, so it's more useful for spontaneous casters, except they have few slots and wouldn't grab them due to that, so in the end it's not particularly useful for anyone. I'm not saying don't get them, but I don't think they're worthy level up choices.

Endure Elements will depend on the campaign, if you know it's gonna be useful, then grab it, it'll be useful, otherwise, you shouldn't even consider it (unless it comes your way for free). Even so, it's questionable since it's a single-target buff (even when cast as a spell), so no sane caster will spend daily slots on this.


Lvl 2: Animal Aspect, Alchemical Allocation, and Lesser Restoration
Where's this Animal Aspect formula? I'm using the SRD for quick reference and can't find it. Invisibility is also hella nice, I'd give it a thought over Lesser Restoration, as common as ability damage is, situations where an Invis is the best thing ever are even more common (at least in the campaigns I play).


Lvl 3: Fly, Heroism, and Beast Shape I
Nothing that I disagree with here, but if you're the only caster in the group, ask your DM if you can have your Haste affect multiple targets despite being essentially a potion, if he allows, then I'd trade something for it (possibly Beast Shape).


Lvl 4: Greater Invisibility, Universal Formulae, and Freedom of Movement
I'm a bigger fan of normal Invisibility, not that Greater isn't nice or anything, but since I'd already have the normal version, grabbing Greater isn't helping me with versatility, so I'd give something else the priority.

Universal Formulae is so-so, if it can be made into a wand, then ok, versatile and useful, but as a 4th level extract? I'd rather have two 2nd level ones combined.

Freedom of Movement falls with Expeditious Retreat, it's nice for when you need it, but hard to plan to have, so chances are when you need it you won't have it, especially since you don't have the slots for now to be batman prepared.

I'd consider Fluid Form, it sounds quite useful and versatile, not 100% sold on it, but on paper it looks pretty darn nice.

Also don't fear to grab the melee-centric buffs, with the Infusion Discovery (which I would get regardless, but even more as a non-melee Alchemist, since 60% of your extracts will be nearly useless to you), you can simply give it for your party's big buff fighter guy so he can be a bigger buffer fighterer guyer, he'll thank you for this and any other casters will as well (since it's a weight off their shoulders). Never forget that so far you're the only way to get self-only buffs onto the melee guys.


Lvl 6: Heal, Form of the Dragon I, Twin Form, ???, and ???
Plant Shape I or II might interest you, as it gives you grab and poison. Giant Form is a strong contender to pass to your melee fellas, since they get to keep all their gear and they wouldn't benefit quite as much from the dragons' natural weapons as you will.


As for your will, if your DM is not one to target that one quite big and somewhat glaring weakness, then go for it, otherwise you need to think carefully if you're not sacrificing too much for concept alone, since that's similar to making a 14+ Cha Fighter who doesn't have Bluff, Diplomacy or Intimidate or any other way to make use of that high Cha.

[TurtleKing]

Considering that colonizing a new planet and such having the formulaes that are more of situational like Touch of the Sea or Endure Elements since the environment can greatly vary. The colony is currently located in a forest so no overall problem there, but if we go esle where then it will be benefial. Since I am planning on fighting using ranged sneak attacks would like to make sure the first shot is a hits. The Crafter's Fortune is more my cooking for when I want to do a masterpiece besides when would I not want to make a masterpiece. The bonus true is not alot but that is ok. Since in a new world were the portal only opens up once every 7 days would want to be prepared for anything. As such a very focused character is kind of at a loss since they may not be able to adapt. Another reason for trying to be somewhat like a batman is because the character has traveled far and wide in search of some of the finest ingredients.

I am also already pulling from Ultimate Combat as for say Animal Aspect. Now that I think about it if possible might even use a firearm for the bigger bang. Range not being much of an issue since I can only SA out to 30ft anyway. I do see what you are talking about with the Wisdom so may swap that out with one of the others, but the character is social so turning the Charisma into the dump stat is not viable. Though considering I don't get any of the social skill may still do that.

[TurtleKing]

Well before this become thread necromancy should try to work on a few more things. I feel pretty confident in the 3.P and PF builds, but still curious about the 3.5 build. So lets focus on that one now. I do I pull this off in 3.5?

[TurtleKing]

Ok just found a way to do this in 3.5. A Changeling Factotum 5/Warshaper 5/Exemplar 10. Pulls off the enhanced animal aspects quite nicely while still advancing the crafting. So any feats I should know about for this build? Optimal...no clue but does fit the character concept.