Oriental Adventures for 3.5?

[PKPhyre]

So I've read a lot of good thing about 3e's Oriental Adventures, and I was wondering, how difficult is it to modify it for 3.5? Thanks.

[LaughingRogue]

So I've read a lot of good thing about 3e's Oriental Adventures, and I was wondering, how difficult is it to modify it for 3.5? Thanks.


Not difficult at all , just run as is really.

[Gavinfoxx]

It was already updated to 3.5e in Dragon Magazine. #318 I think.

[Amphetryon]

It was already updated to 3.5e in Dragon Magazine. #318 I think.

Most notably, the henjayoki (sp?) had their LA lopped off, with the "fixes" that were made to their shape-changing ability because of 3.5's update.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

its actually quite a fun campaign setting, and in the back of the Oriental adventures is a little gem of a web enhancement alternate setting, called Mahasarpa.

OA is also one of the most balanced settings to come out of 3.5 D&D, due to the limitations on classes. Also, many of the changes and limitations to spells helps in this regard.

[Lastgrasp]

Have you checked out Ultimate Combat? Has heavy eastern theme throughout with the Samurai and Ninja classes. Plus has archetypes, eastern weapons, armors, etc. All PF rules but can used in 3.5 game no problem.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Kitsunemori. KITSUNEMORI. I cannot stress how awesome this 3rd party book is for Japanese folklore inspired settings. OA is nice and all, but it is very much a generalization of an oriental setting that homogenizes asian folklore from multiple, very different cultures and blends them together into a psudo-asian world. Kitsunemori is not that. Kitsunemori is the closest I have seen any 3.5e supplement come to correctly modeling Japanese folklore. While I will admit there is a lot of material focusing on the kitsune(which are presented as a new race and a new class.) there is such depth of material in that supplement that you could easily run a Japanese Folklore-inspired campaign without ever having a Kitsune come up. It adds no new classes sans the Kitsune ones, but it dose alter existing classes so much that they may as well be new classes.

Unfortunately, I know of no other books for other asian cultures, though I think the company that made Kitsunemori may have more asian-themed settings, so it may be worth it to look.

[darksolitaire]

Most notably, the henjayoki (sp?) had their LA lopped off, with the "fixes" that were made to their shape-changing ability because of 3.5's update.

They also nerfed Vanaras, who now pretty much only have climbing speed and few skill bonuses. As if I'd play monkey-man if I couldn't have some delicious ability scrore adjustments.:smallfurious:

I want my über Vanaras back!

[Urpriest]

They made Shamans' martial arts bonus feats into a weaker Superior Unarmed Strike (making them more useful IMO), but forgot that animal companions changed. They also buffed most of the ancestor feats.

[Andorax]

Start with OA, and Dragon 318 (which updates much of the book's content to 3.5).

Next stop: The "Complete" books, which often have an updated version of an OA class that should supercede it (Wu Jen in CA, Shugenja in CD, Ninja in CAv, Samurai in CW).

Finally, I think most would agree that the Tome of Battle: Book of 9 Swords is a good fit for an OA-themed campaign.

These sources together should provide you with all you need to make for a very interesting and enjoyable OA campaign.

[Talya]

Next stop: The "Complete" books, which often have an updated version of an OA class that should supercede it (Wu Jen in CA, Shugenja in CD, Ninja in CAv, Samurai in CW).


Anybody who replaces OA's samurai with the CW samurai is, at best, sadistic.

The OA samurai is elegantly designed and actually worth playing in the OA setting. The CW samurai is not.

Heck, the OA Samurai is a great 2 level dip for any martial type in 3.5, even as is. And it's already 3.5 compatible. OASamurai 2/Warblade 18, or OASamurai 2/Crusader 18, or OASamurai 2/Swordsage 18 are all great choices.

[Rogue Shadows]

...Samurai in CW).

For the love of God do not use this class.

EVER.

IT IS WORSE THAN A FIGHTER.

There's a re-build someone did of the Rokugan samurai somewhere on this boards...can't remember the author or find where I found the link to it, though...

[Greenish]

IT IS WORSE THAN A FIGHTER.So is OA samurai, arguably.

I'd just slap Iaijutsu Focus as a class skill on all the ToB classes, maybe put the clan-based bonus feats from samuraiOA on warblade's bonus feat list (keeping them clan-based), and be done with it.

Oh, and remove the prerequisites of Ancestral Relic.

[Talya]

So is OA samurai, arguably.


It would be a poor argument.

Ancestral Daisho (Better than Ancestral Relic...and it's like getting Ancestral Relic twice, and doesn't stop you from ALSO taking ancestral relic), High Fortitude/Will saves, 4+int skills/level.

You lose 2-3 fighter bonus feats, but it takes a while to lose them, the cost on the back-end, meaning if you multiclass out, it cost you nothing for those benefits.

[Vandicus]

You lose 2-3 fighter bonus feats, but it takes a while to lose them, the cost on the back-end, meaning if you multiclass out, it cost you nothing for those benefits.

Samurai gets ancestral daisho instead of a bonus feat at level one. Its not worth progressing in it compared to progressing in fighter after 4th level. Still, it is arguable which is better, though samurai is great for iajutsu master builds.

[Togath]

I would like to point out that the sohei also possesses Iajutsu Focus, but it only gains 2 skill points per level, still, I have sometimes wondered why no-one mentions it.

[Vandicus]

I would like to point out that the sohei also possesses Iajutsu Focus, but it only gains 2 skill points per level, still, I have sometimes wondered why no-one mentions it.

IMO its because sohei combines the weakest class features of monk, paladin, and barbarian, with its two more useful class features, mettle and strength of mind, coming at level 9 and 5 respectively, too high for a dip.

[TwylyghT]

Samurai gets ancestral daisho instead of a bonus feat at level one. Its not worth progressing in it compared to progressing in fighter after 4th level. Still, it is arguable which is better, though samurai is great for iajutsu master builds.

And there is always double the skill points and the chance to actually make will saves! Though this factors in a playing environment where skills matter to actually be a bonus.

[Vandicus]

And there is always double the skill points and the chance to actually make will saves! Though this factors in a playing environment where skills matter to actually be a bonus.

Like I said, its arguable as to whether samurai or fighter is better. I've certainly never built a character with many levels in them, but I've used both for dips. They both have useful features

[Greenish]

Ancestral Daisho (Better than Ancestral Relic...and it's like getting Ancestral Relic twice, and doesn't stop you from ALSO taking ancestral relic)Free MW weapons is neat in, say, levels 1-3 and getting two doesn't really benefit you.

Will save and skillpoints, neat, but your bonus feats (which fighter has twice as many by level 6) have to be picked from a short and really sucky list.

[Togath]

Aye, also one thing I have been wondering; are there any tier lists that list the rokugan campaign setting classes and the OA ones?, I would imagine that the rokugan samurai has a slightly better tier, as it's weapon enchantments are actually free, And I have some times wondered if taking levels in courtier was worth it, but I'm starting to get off topic;
To the OP; Aye, most if not all of OA and the Rokugan campaign setting can be used with 3.5, and the samurai is pretty close in power to a fighter, at least until 6th level, the Rokugan samurai is slightly better as it gets ancestral daisho abilities free, rather than needing to pay for them

Edit; Ninjaed while posting, lol

[TwylyghT]

I actually like them both for various things, together works too... and if thats not enough low level bonus feats you could grab 2 levels of psychic warrior..... :smallbiggrin:

[Greenish]

Rokugan samurai is slightly better as it gets ancestral daisho abilities freeSounds pretty good, what other differences does it have to the OA samurai?

[Togath]

They get access to a few setting specific skills(would probabally be knowledge skills, or the martial lore skill in 3.5), and a slightly better feat list(edit: 19 bonus feat lists, rather than 7 bonus feat lists).

[TwylyghT]

Free MW weapons is neat in, say, levels 1-3 and getting two doesn't really benefit you.

Will save and skillpoints, neat, but your bonus feats (which fighter has twice as many by level 6) have to be picked from a short and really sucky list.

That is off set quite a bit if you have the Rokugan scource book, with addition of school style and techniques to the bonus feat selection.


Aye, also one thing I have been wondering; are there any tier lists that list the rokugan campaign setting classes and the OA ones?, I would imagine that the rokugan samurai has a slightly better tier, as it's weapon enchantments are actually free, And I have some times wondered if taking levels in courtier was worth it, but I'm starting to get off topic;
To the OP; Aye, most if not all of OA and the Rokugan campaign setting can be used with 3.5

Edit; Ninjaed while posting, lol

No established list that I know of, but it probably goes Casters>Courtier>Everyone else. Courtier assumes a setting where social skills are relevant, otherwise they are a part of everyone else, albeit competitive in the group.

That said the gap from top to bottom in the setting seems to be much smaller than in core 3.x

[Rogue Shadows]

I've wondered about the inkyo, mostly. It might be another PC-intended class that's probably in Tier-6 (it's essentially a monk with worse unarmed damage and half as many class features besides (including no flurry or evasion), and in return gets some bonus feat from a really lackluster list). So the CW Samurai has some company, at least.

[Togath]

The Rokugan ninja on the other hand is pretty strong, with a fair sellection of weapons and full base attack bonus, while still possessing a fair number of rogue abilities, would probally be about the same tier as a rogue, possibly slightly better.
And aye, the inkyo is pretty weak, even compaired to a monk, could be boosted if it's abilities worked like luck feats, but that would require a homebrewed fix for it

[Greenish]

That is off set quite a bit if you have the Rokugan scource book, with addition of school style and techniques to the bonus feat selection.Cool, I'm not familiar with the 3rd party stuff.

Still, OA samurai, CW samurai, fighter, you probably wouldn't use any of them for more than a dip, and their relative worth depends on what you want: OA samurai gets free MW weapon, Ancestral Relic, a bonus feat and Iaijutsu Focus, CW samurai gets EWP: Bastard Sword and TWF as bonus feats and heavy armour proficiency, fighter gets two bonus feats and heavy armour/shields proficiency (and whatever ACFs you want to stack on) from the usual 2-level dip.

[Godskook]

Free MW weapons is neat in, say, levels 1-3 and getting two doesn't really benefit you.

Will save and skillpoints, neat, but your bonus feats (which fighter has twice as many by level 6) have to be picked from a short and really sucky list.

1.You're ignoring the Ancestral relic part of the Daisho class feature.

2.It isn't just skill points. OA Samurai has a skill list that both allows for a non-combat role *and* added combat effectiveness(Iaijutsu focus).

3.Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved(Bull Rush, Disarm, Trip, Initiative). Yeah, that's a bad list alright. :smallamused:

[Greenish]

1.You're ignoring the Ancestral relic part of the Daisho class feature.

2.It isn't just skill points. OA Samurai has a skill list that both allows for a non-combat role *and* added combat effectiveness(Iaijutsu focus).

3.Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved(Bull Rush, Disarm, Trip, Initiative). Yeah, that's a bad list alright. :smallamused:1. I was responding to someone extolling how Daisho is better than Ancestral Relic by pointing out the difference is rather minor.

2. Yes?

3. That's two lists put together (Lion & Crab). You only get one.


Besides, Imp. Bull Rush isn't very useful without Dungeoncrasher. You know who gets Dungeoncrasher?

[TwylyghT]

The ninja is awesome through 9 levels then averages out a bit. Ninja 9/Rogue x/Prc x lol

[BIGMamaSloth]

Most notably, the henjayoki (sp?) had their LA lopped off, with the "fixes" that were made to their shape-changing ability because of 3.5's update.

uh-oh. what did they change about the shape-changing? was It severely nerfed? I'm playing one in an upcoming campaign. :smalleek:

[Greenish]

uh-oh. what did they change about the shape-changing? was It severely nerfed? I'm playing one in an upcoming campaign. :smalleek:They didn't change the actual shape-changing, as far as I'm aware, only the creature type (in 3.0, Shapechanger was a type, in 3.5 it's a subtype). So 3.5 Hengeyokai is Humanoid (Shapechanger).

[Talya]

1. I was responding to someone extolling how Daisho is better than Ancestral Relic by pointing out the difference is rather minor.

I think you missed the reason Ancestral Daisho is better than Ancestral Relic.

You get TWO weapons with Ancestral Daisho, and still get to take ancestral relic later if you want for armor or other items. (It's not a terrible idea. It's like getting to craft your own gear without the experience cost or need for prerequisites.)

[Godskook]

1. I was responding to someone extolling how Daisho is better than Ancestral Relic by pointing out the difference is rather minor.

Except being twice as good is not a 'minor' difference.


2. Yes?

The overall tangent you two were on was you stating that OA Samurai is worse than Fighter. A skill list that allows out-of-combat utility is *INCREDIBLY* good as compared to the fighter.


3. That's two lists put together (Lion & Crab). You only get one.

Since neither is really good for more than short dips, that's a moot point. Having more feats also doesn't make Fighter the same tier as OA Samurai, or even a better tier. Honestly, I'd call OA Samurai a solid tier 4 class with even basic optimization, while Fighter starts at a tier 5, and has to optimize to barely reach tier 4.


Besides, Imp. Bull Rush isn't very useful without Dungeoncrasher. You know who gets Dungeoncrasher?

Shock Trooper isn't useful? :smallconfused:

[Greenish]

You get TWO weapons with Ancestral DaishoThough you're not going to use both.


The overall tangent you two were on was you stating that OA Samurai is worse than Fighter. A skill list that allows out-of-combat utility is *INCREDIBLY* good as compared to the fighter.Blah. Thug is as good or better. Fighter is a core class, which brings up many options samurai can only dream about.


Honestly, I'd call OA Samurai a solid tier 4 class with even basic optimizationI wouldn't.


Shock Trooper isn't useful? :smallconfused:It's just damage. :smalltongue:

(Okay, I forgot about Shock Trooper since I've never played in a game it'd been appropriate.)

[TwylyghT]

Though you're not going to use both.


The second one is handy you plan to use iaijutsu focus more than once or to dual wield in general.

Another good use is to have it ready with alternate enchantments to bypass other types of DR.

Human-bane on both in most settings is well worthwhile.

[Godskook]

Though you're not going to use both.

When you're getting two weapons for the price of one(cause you're not having to sell items at half-price), you can afford to have a *REALLY* nice back-up weapon, and morphing is a cheap weapon enhancement, in case your retort to this involved the "wakizashis suck" thought.


Blah. Thug is as good or better. Fighter is a core class, which brings up many options samurai can only dream about.

1.Nobody dreams about being tier 5.....

2.Thug's only social contribution is lying. He can't diplomance, sense anyone's motive, or even intimidate.

3.Prior to level 6, Thug is actually behind, and doesn't really pull ahead in combat for a long time, depending on if you count Ancestral Daisho as 1 feat or 2.


I wouldn't.

Care to back up your logic?

To be a Tier 4 you need to either:
-do one thing quite well
-do many things to a reasonable degree of competance

The OA Samurai has reasonable combat skills and social skills, has a WBL bonus that enables him and his team to be much better geared than their level would normally allow(a crafting role), leaving only casting and trapfinding as major roles he does not cover. And also, cause of his abilities, he's a lot stronger at handling encounters that fighter/thug struggle with, since his weapons can be self-enchanted to prepare for them.


It's just damage. :smalltongue:

(Okay, I forgot about Shock Trooper since I've never played in a game it'd been appropriate.)

There's also the fact that there's at least 2 feats in every clan except Dragon that's worth picking for one reason or another.

[Coidzor]

2.Thug's only social contribution is lying. He can't diplomance, sense anyone's motive, or even intimidate.

Where does it say that Thug removes Intimidate from the list of Fighter class skills? Zhentarim Thug Fighter is a pretty good Fear-build base.

[Godskook]

Where does it say that Thug removes Intimidate from the list of Fighter class skills? Zhentarim Thug Fighter is a pretty good Fear-build base.

Read that wrong when I checked the SRD. My bad.

But still, intimidate isn't that great for non-combat purposes, in that you can often roleplay around having a less-than-great score unless your DM is like me and refuses to let roleplay negate mechanics entirely, and even then, roleplay can often improve the numbers.

Besides, I wouldn't take(or suggest) more than 4 levels in OA Samurai, which means you can still have time to pick up all the most useful fighter abilities afterwards before hitting level 20(quite a bit, actually) if you want them.

[Coidzor]

Read that wrong when I checked the SRD. My bad.

But still, intimidate isn't that great for non-combat purposes, in that you can often roleplay around having a less-than-great score unless your DM is like me and refuses to let roleplay negate mechanics entirely, and even then, roleplay can often improve the numbers.

Mostly just wanted everything to be clear about the skill list. Fighter is pathetic when it comes to skills, but let's not say it's any worse than it already is.


Besides, I wouldn't take(or suggest) more than 4 levels in OA Samurai, which means you can still have time to pick up all the most useful fighter abilities afterwards before hitting level 20(quite a bit, actually) if you want them.

Well, the only real issue with that is that fear-based builds are, by necessity, limited to lower levels of play due to the whole fear-immunity thing that becomes ubiquitous as one levels, so if one were to go that one, every level one did not spend towards the fear-build would be two levels less that you'd be able to use the trick once it got fully set up.

And if you're not doing a fear-based build then your best bet anyway is multi-classing and PrCing so the superiority of any one class relative to another is moot-ish.