(PF) Quickened True Strike + Arrow Eruption

[Twibby]

Arrow Eruption, in its spell description, says: "However, this spell cannot reproduce any spells or other limited-use magical effects that you used to enhance that particular attack. This includes such effects as the true strike spell, as well as any area spell you might have placed on the arrow by means of the arcane archer's imbue arrow class feature" with that particular attack referring to the original kill strike that allows Arrow Eruption to be used in the first place.

However, if someone was able to cast True Strike after the original arrow shot, but before they cast Arrow Eruption - for example, using Quickened True Strike - would Arrow Eruption's attack roll gain the +20 modifier? True Strike isn't being used to enhance the first shot, it's being used to enhance Arrow Eruption directly.

[DeMouse]

No you can't.

[Twibby]

Alright, but could you explain what was wrong with my argument?

[Bhaakon]

I'd be interested in an explanation as well. I can see an argument for only being able to apply the true strike bonus to one of the arrow attacks created by the spell (though they all use single roll), but I don't see anything prohibiting a separate casting of true-strike from affecting the spell.

[Blisstake]

However, if someone was able to cast True Strike after the original arrow shot, but before they cast Arrow Eruption - for example, using Quickened True Strike - would Arrow Eruption's attack roll gain the +20 modifier? True Strike isn't being used to enhance the first shot, it's being used to enhance Arrow Eruption directly.

No. Basically, Arrow Eruption uses the bonuses from the shot that killed the target, and not any enhancements that came up afterwards.

[WildPyre]

Strictly going by RAW, I don't see why this wouldn't work. The spell says it can't reproduce the effects of a spell like True Strike, it doesn't say anything about not being able to benefit from the effects of True Strike.

[Blisstake]

But it doesn't say it can benefit from True Strike, or spells in general for that matter.

[WildPyre]

But it doesn't say it can benefit from True Strike, or spells in general for that matter.

It states that it has a single attack roll. Attack rolls can benefit from True Strike unless it specificly states that it can't. You can't seriously expect every spell to list every other ability, feat, spell or nook and crany of the game that it can and can not be effected by.

There is no part of the spell description for Arrow Eruption that states that it can't be the target of other spells or effects.

Yes it says that the bonus from True Strike on the first arrow is not reproduced in the spell's effect, but it does not state that the spell's effect can not benefit from a casting of True Strike.

By RAW it works.

[DeMouse]

The attack roll is made with the bonuses of the initial shot minus spells like true strike.

It isn't made with the bonuses the shot would have if you made it again.

[WildPyre]

The attack roll is made with the bonuses of the initial shot minus spells like true strike.

It isn't made with the bonuses the shot would have if you made it again.

That's not the argument. You're not applying True Strike to the first shot. The spell specificly states that it will not replicate the effect of True Strike having been cast on the initial attack. It however does not say that you can't apply True Strike directly to the attack roll of the spell.

You make the first attack as normal.

Next round you cast Quickened True Strike

Then you Cast Arrow Eruption and make that attack... that attack should be affected by the True Strike spell.

[Blisstake]

It states that it has a single attack roll. Attack rolls can benefit from True Strike unless it specificly states that it can't. You can't seriously expect every spell to list every other ability, feat, spell or nook and crany of the game that it can and can not be effected by.

There is no part of the spell description for Arrow Eruption that states that it can't be the target of other spells or effects.

Yes it says that the bonus from True Strike on the first arrow is not reproduced in the spell's effect, but it does not state that the spell's effect can not benefit from a casting of True Strike.

By RAW it works.

No, it doens't say spells work to modify the shot. Since it doesn't, we can't assume spells do count. It doesn't have to list every spell that would or wouldn't apply, but if it doesn't include spells in the list of what affects the attack, then we should probably assume True Strike is out.

Also, even if you disregard that, the spell description says it uses what affected your last attack. If you use True Strike after the attack, it's null anyway.

[WildPyre]

You create exact duplicates of the arrow or crossbow bolt you used to kill a creature in the previous round and launch one at enemy creatures within a 30-foot radius of the corpse. You can target one creature per caster level (maximum 15) within range of the burst and must make a single attack roll and apply it to each arrow. These duplicate arrows possess all the intrinsic magical properties of the arrow that killed the original creature as well as those passed on to it by your bow. They also enjoy the full benefit of any bonuses or modifiers you applied to the attack from other magical items, feats, and class or racial features. However, this spell cannot reproduce any spells or other limited-use magical effects that you used to enhance that particular attack. This includes such effects as the true strike spell, as well as any area spell you might have placed on the arrow by means of the arcane archer's imbue arrow class feature.

It says it does not reproduce the effects of spells like True Strike that were placed upon the original shot. I fail to see why that would rule out placing True Strike on the attack roll.

If True Strike does not work to modify the attack roll the it needs to specificly state that. It however does not, it only says that it will not reproduce the effects of a True Strike on the original shot.

If it's going to exclude itself from certain mechanics then it needs to state that it does so. The way the spell is worded, it does NOT exclude itself from being effected by other spells... only that it will not replicate those spells on it's own.

RAW it works.


No, it doens't say spells work to modify the shot. Since it doesn't, we can't assume spells do count.

Are we also to assume that True Strike does not function on any other spell with an attack roll since NONE of them specificly say they can have that roll enhanced in any way?

[Blisstake]

Aha, I see what you're saying. I completely misunderstood the question.

Yes, I suppose it works... wouldn't it only affect the first shot, though?

[WildPyre]

That I'm actually not clear on... on one hand you are making a single attack roll, but it's against multiple targets...

Normally I would say it only effects the first attack but TS states that it applies to a "single attack roll" and Arrow eruption of course states that you make a "single attack roll" and "apply it to all the attacks". So technically I think it would apply to all of them.

[Blisstake]

Oh, that's right, it only uses a single attack roll. Huh, sounds like a decent combo.

[Kenneth]

I did not know you could cast true striek on a spell.


if you want to get down to it
True Strike
You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.


Arrow Erutpion
You create exact duplicates of the arrow or crossbow bolt you used to kill a creature in the previous round and launch one at enemy creatures within a 30-foot radius of the corpse. You can target one creature per caster level (maximum 15) within range of the burst and must make a single attack roll and apply it to each arrow. These duplicate arrows possess all the intrinsic magical properties of the arrow that killed the original creature as well as those passed on to it by your bow. They also enjoy the full benefit of any bonuses or modifiers you applied to the attack from other magical items, feats, and class or racial features. However, this spell cannot reproduce any spells or other limited-use magical effects that you used to enhance that particular attack. This includes such effects as the true strike spell, as well as any area spell you might have placed on the arrow by means of the arcane archer's imbue arrow class feature.


you are not actually attacking with arrow erutipon you are casting a spell. you are just making at attack roll.

then there is the whole true stirke line sin teh actual spell itself.

[WildPyre]

I did not know you could cast true striek on a spell.


if you want to get down to it
True Strike
You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.


Arrow Erutpion
You create exact duplicates of the arrow or crossbow bolt you used to kill a creature in the previous round and launch one at enemy creatures within a 30-foot radius of the corpse. You can target one creature per caster level (maximum 15) within range of the burst and must make a single attack roll and apply it to each arrow. These duplicate arrows possess all the intrinsic magical properties of the arrow that killed the original creature as well as those passed on to it by your bow. They also enjoy the full benefit of any bonuses or modifiers you applied to the attack from other magical items, feats, and class or racial features. However, this spell cannot reproduce any spells or other limited-use magical effects that you used to enhance that particular attack. This includes such effects as the true strike spell, as well as any area spell you might have placed on the arrow by means of the arcane archer's imbue arrow class feature.


you are not actually attacking with arrow erutipon you are casting a spell. you are just making at attack roll.

then there is the whole true stirke line sin teh actual spell itself.

Emphasis mine.

But yes you can use true strike on a spell... it doesn't say it needs to be a weapon attack, many MANY spells count as an attack. Once you cast True Strike the "next single attack roll" you make gains a +20 insight bonus. Sword, Arrow, Ray, Shoe, doesn't matter what you're attacking with so long as you're making an attack roll.

[Andreaz]

As long as you are using true strike to enhance the Eruption itself, it should be fine. For it to apply to both the original shot and the eruption you'd need to cast it twice.

[Fouredged Sword]

This is the same as a truestrike modifying a whirlwind attack. I see no reason for it not to work.

[Andreaz]

This is the same as a truestrike modifying a whirlwind attack. I see no reason for it not to work.

It's not the same. Whirlwind attack is multiple attacks, and so true strike would affect only one. Arrow Eruption is specifically one attack roll affecting multiple opponents.

[charcoalninja]

Just tossing my agreement into the ring. It should work by raw.

[The Glyphstone]

And it's not horribly broken either, unless you're using Colossal Ballista bolts.

[Twibby]

Thanks for all the quick answers, everyone!

[CTrees]

And it's not horribly broken either, unless you're using Colossal Ballista bolts. You should use this with Colossal Ballista bolts.

Fix'd that for you.

[Twibby]

Fix'd that for you.

While this sounds amazing, how much damage does a Colossal Ballista bolt do?

[Bhaakon]

While this sounds amazing, how much damage does a Colossal Ballista bolt do?

Not listed. gargantuan does 6d8