This might be a fun class

[Bloodymango]

so, im in the current process of writing my own 1-20 campaign. in this game i plan on having a master swordsmen whom the PC's will save and in return will offer training. this will open a home made PrC for the PC's. My question to the humble folk of the playground. Is do you think it is wrong to with hold the info of all the levels of the class to the players. It will be a 5 lv PrC but i will only show the PC's 1 level at a time. Ex. if they want to enter the class they will only see the first level, at 1st level they will only the second and ect.

[Talesin]

You could have the swordsmen give an outline of his fighting style, with a couple of fairly obvious hints as to what the class will give someone. I'd be more concerned with a player getting to the end of the class and then deciding "well that sucked, you told me he was a master swordsmen!"

I like your idea though because realistically people won't know what a level 20 druid can do unless they know a level 20 druid. So i'd make sure he gave them an outline, "I am a master with my blade striking foes where others seem unable to", but again this could cause the problem mentioned above as they think they will get some ability when they in fact you've just attempted to tell them they get +1 to hit/level while using a type of sword.

For my players i'd hand it out at every level by giving them what they gain, rather than a table that they could copy down from. Ie "You gain +1 BAB, +1 to your ref save, +1 to hit with your greatsword and ability X" as that'd make it sem more real for them. But that's my players, YMMV.

[CN the Logos]

It's not a bad idea, but if you decide to do it that way, you should go on a board like this one and get people to offer you opinions and criticism of the finished class. That way, you know that the class is fair and worth taking (and who would want to take it when, etc...), and the players can't complain you led them into a bad prestige class.

[PersonMan]

Basically, what they've said. It sounds like a cool idea and I think they'll enjoy it(although you should ask them first, like a "by the way, would be OK with only knowing what you get next level instead of seeing the table?" to make sure they're alright with it), but you'll want to know what sort of thing(s) they want to be able to do-maybe ask a few questions here and there about what they want their character to be able to do, so they don't say "well, this sucks. I kept thinking I'd get [ability X] at the level after the next, which is why I stayed in the class" at the end.

[Bloodymango]

i will have a mock up of the class abilities and stats up tonight. when the PC's find him he will be poisoned and he will not be at his full strength but they will witness some of his abilities if they hand him a sword.

[DarkEternal]

I did something similar twice with my party. Once they started getting maneuvers, the two martial characters of the group(they don't know about Tome of Battle, and I gave the Iron Heart school to one, and a homebrewed archery school to the other), only giving them maneuvers when they reached new levels.

The other one was when they entered epic territory, by bathing in some sacred pool they gave up their epic feats for epic destinies, things they don't know about. It's pretty fun, and in my opinion, you can't really go wrong with this.

[Bloodymango]

Entry Requirements
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Feats: Weapon Focus, power attack
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with Long sword, bastard sword, great sword, or other fitting heavy blade.
Special: Must spend one day of training per level gained by a Sword Master.
The Sword Master

Hit Die: D10
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Features
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Empowered attack.
2nd +2 +3 +1 +1 Pommel Strike
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Parrying Blade
4th +4 +4 +2 +2 Blade Before Body
5th +5 +4 +2 +2 Blinking Blade

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level) -- Balance Climb, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Ride, Swim.

Class Features

Empowered Attack: when power attacking with a sword, the sword master deals extra damage as thought to have been wielding the sword by two hands

Pommel Strike: A Sword Master sacrifices his last attack to make an attack with the pommel of his blade at his/her highest BAB. Pommel Strike deals 1d4+STR+any feats involved.

Parrying Blade: When wielding a blade in one hand a Sword Master adds a +1 untyped bonus to his AC. This includes touch and flat footed AC . This effect does not stack if the Sword Master is holding 2 blades

Blade Before Body: this effect allows
her to shrug off magical effects that would otherwise harm
her. If a Sword Master makes a successful Fortitude
saving throw that would normally reduce the spell’s effect,
she suffers no effect from the spell at all. Only those spells
with a Saving Throw entry of “Fortitude half,”or similar entries can be negated through this ability.

Blinking Blade: once per day + cha modifier with a minimum of 1 as a free action a sword master can make a touch attack with his sword as part of a normal full attack .

[Greenish]

First off, if you don't know how to do the table, just say "full BAB, good Fort, medium Ref/Will" or similar. Second, if you use medium save progression, note it or make it a class feature (see Scouts and Swashbucklers).

Here's the table for you:{TABLE]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Features
1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Empowered attack.
2nd|+2|+3|+1|+1|Pommel Strike
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Parrying Blade
4th|+4|+4|+2|+2|Blade Before Body
5th|+5|+4|+2|+2|Blinking Blade[/TABLE]



Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level) -- Climb, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Ride, Swim.No balance or tumble? Isn't balance important for swordsmen?


Empowered Attack: when power attacking with a sword, the sword master deals extra damage as thought to have been wielding the sword by two handsAnd if you're wielding the sword in two hands?


Pommel Strike: A Sword Master sacrifices his last attack to make an attack with the pommel of his blade at his/her highest BAB. Pommel Strike deals 1d4+STR+any feats involved.Is the pommel considered a light weapon, or two-handed one? Does Empowered Attack apply to it?


Parrying Blade: When wielding a blade in one hand a Sword Master adds a +1 untyped bonus to his AC.Does that work with TWF?

Not that it matters, this isn't worth it.


Blade Before Body: A Sword Master allows
her to shrug off magical effects that would otherwise harm
her. If a pious templar makes a successful Fortitude
saving throw that would normally reduce the spell’s effect,
she suffers no effect from the spell at all. Only those spells
with a Saving Throw entry of “Fortitude half,”or similar entries can be negated through this ability.The swordmaster allows who to shrug off the effects? Is "she" the Pious Templar?


Blinking Blade: once per day + cha modifier with a minimum of 1 a sword master can make a touch attack with his sword.What sort of action is that? What does the touch attack do?

[randomhero00]

OP I think its fine so long as its CLEARLY better than the rest of the martial classes in your campaign.

[Crow]

I've done this before as DM, and it makes for great roleplay interaction if you RP the training sessions and such.

But it's pretty important that the class be clearly better than other options available to the player, otherwise the player may be a bit peeved. Imagine picking between the family sedan that would be nice to have, or the mystery prize, and ending up with a mo-ped.

The trick is making sure it's not so good as to overpower the guys in your group who didn't choose to take the "mystery class".

[HappyBlanket]

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level) -- Balance, Climb, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Ride, Swim.Add Tumble, Spot, and Listen. Tumble is indispensable in combat, and Spot and Listen are two skills that most melee types desperately need. Also consider adding Diplomacy, which seems appropriate considering which Knowledge skills you've added. And depending on the fluff you've established, add Profession. That just for flavor, obviously.


Empowered Attack: when power attacking with a sword, the sword master deals extra damage as thought to have been wielding the sword by two hands The proficiency prereqs ask for heavy, two handed weapons (Bastard Sword, Great Sword). So making an ability that only benefits one handed weapons seems pretty odd.


Pommel Strike: A Sword Master sacrifices his last attack to make an attack with the pommel of his blade at his/her highest BAB. Pommel Strike deals 1d4+STR+any feats involved. But this is only on a full attack, which won't always be available. Do consider that. This one is rather good though; make sure that any enchantments to the weapon apply to it's pommel as well, and that Power Attack/Empowered Attack apply to the damage.


Parrying Blade: When wielding a blade in one hand a Sword Master adds a +1 untyped bonus to his AC. This includes touch and flat footed AC . This effect does not stack if the Sword Master is holding 2 blades Baaaaaaaaad. Again, the prereqs to this class encourage THW users, and this ability is useless to those characters. Furthermore, +1 AC is nothing. Make it something that scales. Exponentially (this is a shot in the dark, but +1AC every level, maybe? I think there's precedent for scaling AC from a class feature, but I can't recall the source).


Blade Before Body: this effect allows
her to shrug off magical effects that would otherwise harm
her. If a Sword Master makes a successful Fortitude
saving throw that would normally reduce the spell’s effect,
she suffers no effect from the spell at all. Only those spells
with a Saving Throw entry of “Fortitude half,”or similar entries can be negated through this ability. Along with Greenish's corrections, this... Is not impressive. Rogues get this ability at level 2. Your Swordsman, a Prestige Class, gets it at level 10, at best. If you really want to keep it, give it at the first level (along with anything else at that level), and add another ability to the list of class features.


Blinking Blade: once per day + cha modifier with a minimum of 1 as a free action a sword master can make a touch attack with his sword as part of a normal full attack .

Don't use Charisma for this. As a player, I wouldn't buff a stat I normally never use for the sake of boosting a single class feature. Consider either A) making Blinking Blade OPD+cha into OPD+con. Or B) make the other abilities (and anything you add) reliant on Charisma, while noting to the player that Charisma is an important stat. Consider having Charisma to AC and Charisma to Attack/Damage.

[Greenish]

I think there's precedent for scaling AC from a class feature, but I can't recall the source).Citadel Elite from Sharn, the City of Towers springs to mind. They got a ridiculous errata nerf, though.

[Analytica]

What would be really elegant would be to make this a fast-progressing martial initator class á ToB, getting maybe fifth-level maneuvers in five levels, but if you do not generally use that, probably too much work.