Pathfinder: The favoured class bonuses.

[Communard]

I was wondering which options PF players generally pick for the favoured class bonus: extra skill point or HP. I'm playing my first game soon and I'll be playing a half-elf Rogue (possibly dual classing to Wizard), so I'll have a lot of skill points already, should I make myself that little bit tougher or have a really good skillset? Or a balance?

[Ernir]

I'd not call either choice a strictly superior one.

When leveling up, do you get the feeling that you don't have enough skill points to take everything you want? If so, take the skill point. Otherwise, default to the HP, I guess.

[TOZ]

I usually forget to add them. I tend to just pretend I added them to HP.

[CTrees]

I often tag the alternates-things like extra spells known or extra evolution points are very good.

Depends on the character, otherwise. Wizard? Probably hp. fighter? Better chance of getting more skills (if not human).

[warmachine]

+1 HP. When all the investigation, political manoeuvring and resource gathering are done and you're making your move, you need to all the HP you can get to prevail in battle.

[Ravens_cry]

Skilly or killy, unless point buy forces me to take an especially low con, I take the skill point. Why? Because having a fully pumped Perception to give a heads up on an ambush, even not as a class skill, or another Knowledge check, to give me 'hints' about the monster I am facing and its weaknesses, or one of the social skills, to soothe the savage humanoid, or anything, can save my life more than 1-20 extra hit points will.

[FelixG]

I without fail pick the skill point.

I am generally already good enough at killing every mother in the room as it is :smallcool:

[Talya]

I'll be playing a half-elf Rouge

I didn't know 3.5 Complete Cosmetics was part of the SRD and available in Pathfinder.

[Psyren]

I typically take the skill point until I have at least 1 in every class skill (while keeping the big ones like Perception, Acrobatics, and my Knowledge{s} of choice maxed), then HP from there on out.

[peacenlove]

Some of the times the race specific bonus gained per level is far better than 1 HP or 1 skill point (Human sorcerer for example :smallamused: )
When this is not an issue, I primarily choose Hit Points and buy a +10 to a skill item when I want to be good at a skill.

[Talya]

I would think I'd shore up weaknesses of my class. As a rogue, I have a pile of skills but fewer hit points, I'd take the hit points. As a barbarian, I have a pile of hit points but fewer skills, I'd take the skills.

Of course, then there's the min-maxing option...which is the opposite of what I just said and equally valid.

[Eldan]

I'll always take the skill points. Simply because skills give usually interesting options to your character, while Hit points are just a numeric value that doesn't do much.

[Blisstake]

For fighter or sorcerer, I pick an extra skill point per level. I have no idea why they kept them at 2+int skills per level, so I do what I can to get more skill points. The human bonus for sorcerer seems better, but it seems a lot more powerful later on... perhaps more than a favored class bonus should be. *Shrug*


while Hit points are just a numeric value that doesn't do much.

They make you continue to exist. I'd say that's doing a lot :smalltongue:

[subject42]

I'll always take the skill points. Simply because skills give usually interesting options to your character, while Hit points are just a numeric value that doesn't do much.

I find that not being dead allows me to use my smaller number of skill points to much greater effect than would otherwise be possible.

[Communard]

I didn't know 3.5 Complete Cosmetics was part of the SRD and available in Pathfinder.

Heh, missed that one, thanks. Duly edited.

[Telasi]

Generally, I take the HP. On fighter types, who tend to have HP and are lacking in the skills department, I often reserve some for boosting key skills like Perception and Acrobatics (for tumbling).

[Eldariel]

In low-level games I tend towards HP; I love skill points to death but on low levels, the difference between 7 and 8 HP just comes up too often for me to be comfortable skimping on the HP. This is doubly true if I'm making do with less than 14 Con. Whenever I can afford it tho, I go for the skills. Especially under PF skill system, individual skillpoints are exceedingly valuable (+4 for one point in any class skill!).

[navar100]

I find skill points to be the better option. There are always more skills you want than you have points. You don't necessarily need to max out every skill you puts ranks in. One rank in a class skill nets you +4. That helps more than one hit point.

I'm playing a Sorcerer getting 6 points a level: 2 class + 2 Intelligence + 1 human + 1 favored. That adds up a lot over the levels. I'm maxing Spellcraft because I want to craft items later, but just this past level when I reached level 5 I decided to put all the rest into Perception despite having +0 wisdom modifier and not a class skill. I was tired of missing stuff, and +5 Perception helps. I'll never see the hiding Rogue, but I do get to notice important stuff now that don't have high Stealth or that Stealth isn't even an issue. That alone is more helpful to me than 5 hit points. Another few levels I might do a Perception dump again.

It still depends on the DM. Skills are only important as the campaign makes them out to be. Knowledge skills are useful to allow out of character knowledge to become in character knowledge. Interestingly, the party's Cavalier put some ranks into Profession (Bureaucracy). When we found sheets of papers with notes regarding Drow shipping, he was able to use that skill to discover what exactly was going on.

Pathfinder Skills are player friendly. While there are class skills bonuses, you can afford to spend ranks on non-class skills. You are only three behind an opposing class skill roll if applicable. Plus, tracking and trap finding are no longer class exclusive. Rangers and Rogues get class bonuses respectively as a class feature, but anyone can track and search for traps. That helps a lot. The game encourages Skill use.

[Shadow Lord]

I'd not call either choice a strictly superior one.

When leveling up, do you get the feeling that you don't have enough skill points to take everything you want? If so, take the skill point. Otherwise, default to the HP, I guess.

Human Sorcerer is superior. Always and forever, Human Sorcerer is superior. There is no competition.

[Ernir]

Human Sorcerer is superior. Always and forever, Human Sorcerer is superior. There is no competition.

Yeah, well, that's... different. :smalltongue:

[Shadow Lord]

Yeah, well, that's... different. :smalltongue:

Yes. Yes it is. Always play a race that benefits your class. ALWAYS.

[Reverent-One]

Yes. Yes it is. Always play a race that benefits your class. ALWAYS.

Statements like this always just make me want to do something like, oh, roll up a dwarven Sorcerer.

[Golden-Esque]

Statements like this always just make me want to do something like, oh, roll up a dwarven Sorcerer.

The irony, of course, is that dwarf is the only class that is truly BAD at being a Sorcerer / Oracle.

[Reverent-One]

The irony, of course, is that dwarf is the only class that is truly BAD at being a Sorcerer / Oracle.

Irony? That's the point of the idea.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Yes. Yes it is. Always play a race that benefits your class. ALWAYS.

Human Sorcerer still gets a +2 to CHA, the only relevant caster stat, doesn't it?

It also gets Sorcerer as a favored class (for the extra skill, spell, or HP per level), an extra feat, and an extra skill point per level (on top of the possible skill point from the favored class benefit). There may be better options, but human Sorcerer is far from awful.

Anyway.

I look at the class-specific favored class benefits first, but if they're awful (1/6th of a Rogue talent? Pass), I take what I feel is a more pressing need; for my Rogue, I had just enough skill points from my Human and INT bonuses to cover all the skills I wanted to invest in, but not enough to cover the skills I needed just one point in to be able to use (like Knowledge [local] and the like), so I used my favored class bonus to give me access to trained-only skills, then put the rest into hit points. For my brother's dwarf Barbarian, I recommended hit points, even though he had only one skill per level, because he tended to crash into things a lot. (It ended up saving his life at least once each level, which meant that even though he only had a couple points each into Intimidate and Perception, he got to use them a lot more often.)

[Eldariel]

Human Sorcerer still gets a +2 to CHA, the only relevant caster stat, doesn't it?

It also gets Sorcerer as a favored class (for the extra skill, spell, or HP per level), an extra feat, and an extra skill point per level (on top of the possible skill point from the favored class benefit). There may be better options, but human Sorcerer is far from awful.

Gnomes can situationally beat out Humans. They get bonuses to two relevant stats, penalty to a dump stat and +1 DC to Illusions (DC 18 Color Sprays are fun on level 1). While the feat is awesome, Gnomes have quite a bit going on for them and the closer to PF Core we are, the less awesome the feat is.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I always pick extra skill point so I can cover more bases with my character. I have certain combinations of skills I insist on having.

"Face" set: Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sense Motive. In my opinion, it's useless to have only one of these if you don't have the rest.

"Spellcaster" set: Diplomacy, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device. Religion CAN be dropped if the character isn't a cleric, but it doesn't make sense for a spellcaster to NOT know how arcana works. In fact, the separation of Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft always bugged me. Aren't they the same thing?

And always, always, ALWAYS take Diplomacy. Aside from Perception it's probably the most important skill in any Adventure Path.

[Eldariel]

And always, always, ALWAYS take Diplomacy. Aside from Perception it's probably the most important skill in any Adventure Path.

So far, I've more than managed by using Charm Person as a Diplomacy-substitute :smallbiggrin:

[Luckmann]

Diplomacy is for people with no easy access to bricks. :smallbiggrin:

[Lonely Tylenol]

Gnomes can situationally beat out Humans. They get bonuses to two relevant stats, penalty to a dump stat and +1 DC to Illusions (DC 18 Color Sprays are fun on level 1). While the feat is awesome, Gnomes have quite a bit going on for them and the closer to PF Core we are, the less awesome the feat is.

Even in straight PF Core, though, you have access to Spell Focus (XYZ), which means that you could be a Gnome and get +1 DC to Illusions--or use your bonus feat to get Spell Focus (Illusion) for +1 DC to... Illusions (or Spell Focus anything else for +1 DC to anything else). Granted, the gnome bonus stacks with Spell Focus for all intents and purposes, but the bonus feat, by default, cannot be inherently worse than a +1 DC to Illusions, because it can be a +1 DC to Illusions, and I'd say that, by default, it has to be better, because it can be something (anything) else.

[CTrees]

I'll just point out the pyromaniac gnome crossblooded (orc/red draconic) sorceror. That's a lot of blasting, if you're into that. Human sorceror is still preferable to me, but yeah.

[Eldariel]

Even in straight PF Core, though, you have access to Spell Focus (XYZ), which means that you could be a Gnome and get +1 DC to Illusions--or use your bonus feat to get Spell Focus (Illusion) for +1 DC to... Illusions (or Spell Focus anything else for +1 DC to anything else). Granted, the gnome bonus stacks with Spell Focus for all intents and purposes, but the bonus feat, by default, cannot be inherently worse than a +1 DC to Illusions, because it can be a +1 DC to Illusions, and I'd say that, by default, it has to be better, because it can be something (anything) else.

They have that and +2 Con/-2 Str which is an extremely favorable trade for Sorcs who don't actually give a **** about their Str but have a ton of use for HP, Fort-saves and company.

[Golden-Esque]

Irony? That's the point of the idea.

Maybe the point of YOUR idea, but my idea is that with every other class, there's usually several races that aren't particularly good at performing the role. For example, neither Gnomes nor Halflings make excellent Fighters because of the Small Size and Strength penalty.

On the flipside, to the best of my memory there is no Core Race that is truly bad at being a Wizard, as no race has an Intelligence penalty. Oh, sure, some are better than others, but no one's really bad at it.

[Golden-Esque]

Irony? That's the point of the idea.

Maybe the point of YOUR idea, but my idea is that with every other class, there's usually several races that aren't particularly good at performing the role. For example, neither Gnomes nor Halflings make excellent Fighters because of the Small Size and Strength penalty.

On the flipside, to the best of my memory there is no Core Race that is truly bad at being a Wizard, as no race has an Intelligence penalty. Oh, sure, some are better than others, but no one's really bad at it.

[Lonely Tylenol]

They have that and +2 Con/-2 Str which is an extremely favorable trade for Sorcs who don't actually give a **** about their Str but have a ton of use for HP, Fort-saves and company.

I have nothing to say to contest this.

They're also Small, so they get +1 AC and +1 to-hit that is relevant for touch spells and rays.

With the added skill points, feat, bump to their relevant caster stat and presence of favored class, however, a Human is still a strong choice, and hardly deserving of the tongue-in-cheek response it got.

[Shadow Lord]

Human Sorcerers get twenty extra spells. There is no competition. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

[Blisstake]

...At level 20. Always keep that in mind.

That being said, it's still probably the best choice, unless you're only doing a character to level 3 or something.

[Reverent-One]

Maybe the point of YOUR idea,

Right, my idea, the one you were responding to.