HP Houserule

[the_archduke]

Everyone (rightly) complains that 3.5e is an exercise in melee can't have nice things. Another common complaint is that rolling for hp is insane. After mulling these topics, I came up with an idea. Let me know what you think.

Everyone still gets full HP for their first HD

On every subsequent level up:

Full BaB classes get the better of their die roll or 3/4 max hp
(8 hp -d12, 7hp -d10, 6hp -d8...)

Medium BaB classes get either 1/2 HD or may roll for hp
(4 hp -d8, 3 hp -d6, 2 hp -d4...)

Low BaB classes must roll for hp

This makes CON even more important for SAD casters who have low BaB, but could relieve MAD for classes like the Paladin.

Does this make any sense? Would anyone use this? Am I just tilting at windmills?

[Silva Stormrage]

Hm would be interesting, I always just use averaged or maximized HD but does look like an interesting house rule.

One thing to note though, in 3.5 HP isn't as useful as it should be. Either melee one shots you with hundreds of damage or spells completely ignore your hp through save or dies or no save you die. If fighters gain 30 hp per level then they still would not be equal to wizards.

[Retech]

It might actually force wizards to abandon blasting spells completely and increase the power level of wizards through evolution.

While before, the two wizard types could somewhat co--exist, this grave threat to the survival of the blasters has resulted in battlefield controllers gaining absolute dominance. :smallsigh:

[Zaq]

Interesting. There are a few edge cases (the Incarnate has 1/2 BAB, but is often played as a frontliner . . . definitely not a caster in any case), but I don't see it as being bad.

What do you do for monsters/villains?

[CigarPete]

I like the system we use, mMax 1st level, then everyone gets at least half HD until they have over 100 HP, so d4 get minimum 2, d6 get minimum 3, but everyone is able to take advantage if they roll well.

[ericgrau]

You gotta watch out though if you do the same thing for monsters, or it'll hurt the melee and other damage dealers just as much.

[Eldariel]

One version of "Warriors Get More HP"-rules I actually liked was tying it to BAB; instead of getting HDxCon Mod HP, you get BABxCon Mod HP. Same amount for Full BAB types but less for anyone else.

This, of course, assumes that it doesn't count temporary BAB such as Divine Power, or simply that the DM has already altered those out of existence.


Anyways, the reason I liked this was because it's simple, and there's nothing arbitrary about it. Everyone already has BAB and Con Mod so all you need to do is combine those instead of HD and Con Mod. Nothing fancy, nothing complex, a simple elegant solution.

I don't think you especially want to force casters to max their Con; they're fully capable of doing that and all it accomplishes in practice is force casters to optimize a bit more. Classically, Con was a Warrior-stat; warriors got most out of it and it was a grounds for picking a Warrior to roll high on Con.

Base dice are approximately fine as it stands; if you want to emphasize the difference, give everyone 3/4th the current HD or full HD or something (half works too but ends up with too small numbers kinda often forcing high Con) but I strongly suggest tinkering with the Con-bonus instead of the base values.

[TwylyghT]

One version of "Warriors Get More HP"-rules I actually liked was tying it to BAB; instead of getting HDxCon Mod HP, you get BABxCon Mod HP. Same amount for Full BAB types but less for anyone else.

This, of course, assumes that it doesn't count temporary BAB such as Divine Power, or simply that the DM has already altered those out of existence.


Anyways, the reason I liked this was because it's simple, and there's nothing arbitrary about it. Everyone already has BAB and Con Mod so all you need to do is combine those instead of HD and Con Mod. Nothing fancy, nothing complex, a simple elegant solution.

I don't think you especially want to force casters to max their Con; they're fully capable of doing that and all it accomplishes in practice is force casters to optimize a bit more. Classically, Con was a Warrior-stat; warriors got most out of it and it was a grounds for picking a Warrior to roll high on Con.

Base dice are approximately fine as it stands; if you want to emphasize the difference, give everyone 3/4th the current HD or full HD or something (half works too but ends up with too small numbers kinda often forcing high Con) but I strongly suggest tinkering with the Con-bonus instead of the base values.

Wouldn't anyone with with less than full BAB, or the con score of an average human be permanently disabled at level 1 with a max hp of 0?

[Eldariel]

Wouldn't anyone with with less than full BAB, or the con score of an average human be permanently disabled at level 1 with a max hp of 0?

You still get HDs as per normal. This strictly affects the Con-bonus only. Level 1, people would have their HD in HP. Though of course, it would be reasonable to make level 1 exception and give people "BAB (min 1)xCon Mod bonus HP" instead. After all, nobody wants level 1 to be even more Rocket Taggy.

[TwylyghT]

Ah good I was thinking that seemed a little harsh lol

[erikun]

I don't see this changing much.

Fighters and most other full-BAB types get a whole +38 HP at 20th level. Given that they can look foward to around 100 HP from HD and another 100 HP from 20 CON, it's a minor drop in the bucket. Anything that is dealing damage to them at that level is going to blow right past that buff, and any other problems melee has (unreachable, miss chance, save-or-die) is not going to care about the fighter's HP.

Wizards and similar characters already get most of their HP from CON anyways. A 20 CON wizard has more HP (~140) than a 10 CON fighter (~100). If they can increase their Constitution score, they get just as much benefit as the fighter does. Of course, most spellcasters will probably be more interested in flight + invisibility + miss chance to make their HP irrelevant instead.

PC Fighters and PC Wizards rarely fight each other outside forum-arenas, but if you insist, simply requiring one extra Orb spell before death is not going to make the Fighter significantly better.

[Silva Stormrage]

One version of "Warriors Get More HP"-rules I actually liked was tying it to BAB; instead of getting HDxCon Mod HP, you get BABxCon Mod HP. Same amount for Full BAB types but less for anyone else.

This, of course, assumes that it doesn't count temporary BAB such as Divine Power, or simply that the DM has already altered those out of existence.


Anyways, the reason I liked this was because it's simple, and there's nothing arbitrary about it. Everyone already has BAB and Con Mod so all you need to do is combine those instead of HD and Con Mod. Nothing fancy, nothing complex, a simple elegant solution.

I don't think you especially want to force casters to max their Con; they're fully capable of doing that and all it accomplishes in practice is force casters to optimize a bit more. Classically, Con was a Warrior-stat; warriors got most out of it and it was a grounds for picking a Warrior to roll high on Con.

Base dice are approximately fine as it stands; if you want to emphasize the difference, give everyone 3/4th the current HD or full HD or something (half works too but ends up with too small numbers kinda often forcing high Con) but I strongly suggest tinkering with the Con-bonus instead of the base values.

Oh no! The commoners now can't stand up to the fearsomeness of the cats. They will be one hit by anything! Raven pecking their shoulder? If they rolled a 1 for HP (25% chance) they are disabled and the bird will feast on its corpse! RUN FOR THE HILLS COMMONERS!

[Greenish]

You still get HDs as per normal. This strictly affects the Con-bonus only. Level 1, people would have their HD in HP. Though of course, it would be reasonable to make level 1 exception and give people "BAB (min 1)xCon Mod bonus HP" instead. After all, nobody wants level 1 to be even more Rocket Taggy.How about giving everyone Constitution score + Con mod*BAB extra hp? That'd make low levels more tolerable while not adding that much to higher levels.

[Eldariel]

Oh no! The commoners now can't stand up to the fearsomeness of the cats. They will be one hit by anything! Raven pecking their shoulder? If they rolled a 1 for HP (25% chance) they are disabled and the bird will feast on its corpse! RUN FOR THE HILLS COMMONERS!

Lol. You do realize this changes absolutely nothing with regards to Commoners, right? They have Standard Array; 10/11 Con = +0 HP. So, they have 1d4 HP no matter how you slice it.


How about giving everyone Constitution score + Con mod*BAB extra hp? That'd make low levels more tolerable while not adding that much to higher levels.

*shrug* I dislike emphasizing Con; it's already an obscenely important stat for basically everyone without composite immunities, undead/construct type or Faerie Mysteries Initiate, without regard to class, level or race. But yes, that would certainly be reasonable. I'd frankly prefer "Heroic +10 HP" on level 1 or something like that to de-emphasize it, though.

[Silva Stormrage]

Lol. You do realize this changes absolutely nothing with regards to Commoners, right? They have Standard Array; 10/11 Con = +0 HP. So, they have 1d4 HP no matter how you slice it.


Oh sorry I always forget people use that. I always have all my commoners and monsters use 28 point buy so it was the first thing I thought of whoops :smallredface:.

Well I guess my point still stands though! RUN FOR THE HILLS :smallbiggrin:.

[Vandicus]

It seems reasonable enough, as long as its PC only. I might consider this in my games.

[Rei_Jin]

What I normally do in my games now, is have the first hitdie maximised for everyone, then after that you get to roll a number of dice for your hitpoints equal to your Con Mod +1, and you take the best.

Yes, this makes Con important, but our games tend to consist of tier 4 and 5 PCs, so it works out okay.

The suggestion by the OP seems pretty good though.

[DeMouse]

I would instead of basing it off BAB base it off casting.

Full caster must roll

Medium Casters (EG Bard) get best of 1/2 or roll

Non casters or low casters (EG Paladin/Ranger) get best of 3/4 or roll


The problem with the initital system is that clerics and druds both have medium BAB and are Tier 1 and Tier 0 classes respectively in 3.5.

[Big Fau]

I'm trying out a few different house rules in my campaigns, namely giving Con score to HP at 1st level (and then HP as normal), or to give a percentage increase based on BAB progression (Full BAB getting triple HP, Medium getting +50%, and Poor BAB getting normal).

Currently, the first has done wonders for the first few levels, but they are starting to see it tapper off. The latter has provided massive staying power for the tanks (I have yet to see the party's Crusader hit half HP), but is a huge GP sink for healing spells.