maximized sneak attack

[dhusarra]

how can maximize sneak attack with a rogue till 24 level?post some builds

[Aharon]

Rogue 10/some PrC, take TWF-chain, using bonus feat at 10th to get Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, throw alchemist's fire/other splash weapons on which you can use RTAs, Craven to get an additional +24 damage.

[Ernir]

how can maximize sneak attack with a rogue till 24 level?post some builds

You should place additional constraints on this optimization problem if you want a playable character.

[JaronK]

Is multiclassing allowed? What's the goals here? Do you want all day sneak attack, or once per encounter sneak attack? How many levels of Rogue are needed?

JaronK

[Keld Denar]

To expound upon what Ernir indicated...what exactly are you trying to do? A powerful melee combatant? Non-magically? Mostly non-magically? What is the level span? Starting at 1? Starting at 10? Starting at 24? Any houserules? Books allowed? Goals? Anticipated foes?

The moar details you can give, the moar advise you'll get.

Otherwise, Pun-Pun has the most SA dice at level 1, or at any level for that matter. But that's not very helpful...so yea?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

As a playable character with 24 character levels? Spellthief 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5/Epic Unseen Seer 4 using Master Spellthief, Craven, Hunter's Eye, Practiced Spellcaster, and other spellcaster level boosters.

Also, probably Epic Spellcaster for spells that either boost the caster level or simply give more sneak attack nice.

[Salanmander]

Now I want to homebrew a "Maximize Extraordinary Ability" feat.

[Keld Denar]

Hmmm, could you make an epic spell that would allow you to overcome ALL SA immunity? Also, could you make an epic spell that gives you MOAR dice? Cause I'd guess you could, but I'm not familiar enough with those rules because they are rediculously silly.

[Flickerdart]

There does not appear to be any way to grant Sneak Attack using Epic seeds that I can find.

Your best bet for maximizing SA would be a Cleric 23/Prestige Ranger 1, using Greater Consumption Field to jack up your CL indefinitely, then using Hunter's Eye to grant yourself SA of howmuchever you feel like.

[Aharon]

You could use a Mythal to give you the various "Sneak attack non-sneak-attackable creature" spells with a permanent duration, I think. IIRC, they are outlined in some Faerun book. Lost Empires?

But that's not the objective, as the first post specifically says he wants rogue levels.

[Arundel]

Rogue4/Factorum20

Burn feats on Font of Inspiration.

Sneak attack for 50+d6.

Does it really need maximization at that point?

[Hiro Protagonest]

TWF or archery w/ rapid shot or manyshot line. Craven. One level swordsage dip at some point in the high levels for Assassin's Stance. That gives you 12d6+2d6+24. Average of 73 damage per attack, and you have a lot of attacks.

[Moogleking]

Couldn't you just take 23 SA classes (e.g Rogue, SA Fighter etc.), plus a level of Warblade, with Craven?

[Curmudgeon]

Rogue 10/some PrC, take TWF-chain, using bonus feat at 10th to get Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting ...
Feat: A rogue may gain a bonus feat in place of a special ability.
There's nothing there which says you may ignore feat prerequisites, so that Epic feat's definitely not going to be available at 10th level.

If you want to maximize average (rather than peak) damage with sneak attack, I recommend the following:

Lightbringer Rogue Penetrating Strike ACF (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, page 208): deal sneak attack with ½ the normal dice when you flank sneak-immune foes.
Craven feat (Champions of Ruin, page 17): +1 point to sneak attack damage per character level. As a non-dice bonus, this part of your sneak attack damage will get multiplied on a critical hit, and it won't be reduced with Lightbringer Rogue Penetrating Strike.
A wide threat range weapon (keen rapier) to increase the chance of multiplying that Craven damage.


Rogue4/Factorum20
Burn feats on Font of Inspiration.
Sneak attack for 50+d6.
Does it really need maximization at that point? Seriously, yes. Since there's no stacking language for Cunning Strike, all of those dice are overlapping rather than stacking. You'll have paid a pretty steep price to maximize your chance of adding +6 damage. :smallbiggrin:

[Hiro Protagonest]

Couldn't you just take 23 SA classes (e.g Rogue, SA Fighter etc.), plus a level of Warblade, with Craven?

Do you mean swordsage? Warblade doesn't get Assassin's Stance. For SA classes, I see SA fighter, rogue, spellthief, and assassin. Don't know about anything else. Still, dipping those three classes gives you an extra 2d6 SA damage, so it might be worth it if you can convince your DM to lift the assassin alignment restriction (WotC has never played Assassin's Creed).

[Hiro Protagonest]

Lightbringer Rogue Penetrating Strike ACF (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, page 208): deal sneak attack with ½ the normal dice when you flank sneak-immune foes.


Damn, I forgot about that. It's also in Dungeonscape.

[Aharon]

@Curmudgeon
I think there was a discussion where the position that this is legal was adamantly defended for tens of pages, which convinced me in the end.

But even if it isn't, at 24th level you still have access to the feat, so for the purpose of this discussion it doesn't really matter.

[Curmudgeon]

Damn, I forgot about that. It's also in Dungeonscape.
The language is terser, and less clear, though. By chopping out a couple of lines in Dungeonscape Penetrating Strike they made it ambiguous whether the reduced damage you're dealing is still sneak attack. I prefer the EtCR Lightbringer version, simply to avoid arguments. Since the names are slightly different you can pick either one.

[dhusarra]

ok guys.i a dm and i make a powerful evil character 24 level drow shade template.he must have TWF kukri and i thought i build of rogue 10/assassin 9/invisible blade 5.i don't want tome of battle so any other suggestions is acceptable. and is there an option to make with both hands in the same target more than one sneak attack?

[Flickerdart]

SA Fighter 1/Rogue 3/Spellthief 1/Psionic Rogue 1/Assassin 1/Cancer Mage 1/Invisible Blade 1/Ronin 1/Nightsong Enforcer 1/Unseen Seer 1/Master of Masks 1/Justiciar of Taiia 1/Dread Commando 1/Scorpion Wraith 1/Fist of Dal Quor 1/Guild Thief 1/Magelord 1/Warsling Sniper 1/Shadow Thief of Amn 1/Fang of Sseth 1/Peerless Archer 1/Dread Fang of Lloth 1.

23d6 Sneak Attack in 24 levels. Not sure about the prerequisites for all those PrCs but you should be able to swing 'em with a bit of finagling.

[Arundel]

@Curmudgeon
I think there was a discussion where the position that this is legal was adamantly defended for tens of pages, which convinced me in the end.

But even if it isn't, at 24th level you still have access to the feat, so for the purpose of this discussion it doesn't really matter.

Ah yes, I am in the FAQ crowd of that particular divide (which for the love of Pelor I have no desire to restart). Assuming use of the designer FAQ, by my math a human factorum20/rogue4 should be able to sneak attack for 67d6 once per encounter. Obviously divisible into discreet chunks of destruction if you have more than one target to erase from existence.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

There is a feat that stacks SA with your rogue and cleric levels. Sacred Outlaw. So you could go rogue 3 cleric 21 and get 12SA and epic level casting. Or you could use the generic classes to boost the SA higher. So UA Expert 1/Cleric 6/UA Warrior 1/Cleric 6/UA Warrior 1/Cleric 9 for 20SA and Epic level casting.

[Vandicus]

and is there an option to make with both hands in the same target more than one sneak attack?

If they're flatfooted due to various causes, such as losing initiative, being surprised, being stunned, or balancing without 5 ranks of balance.

[JaronK]

ok guys.i a dm and i make a powerful evil character 24 level drow shade template.he must have TWF kukri and i thought i build of rogue 10/assassin 9/invisible blade 5.i don't want tome of battle so any other suggestions is acceptable. and is there an option to make with both hands in the same target more than one sneak attack?

To answer your question:

Sneak Attack can always be done with both hands. Any attack the qualifies for sneak attack works, so if the enemy is flat footed, flanked, or has their dex otherwise denied then all attacks (including offhand ones) will land for sneak attack damage. Now, feint only applies to one attack, so that's a problem, and it seems to be what you're relying on, but the Surprising Repost feat will solve that (it makes the feint last the whole round)

Also, since you're making an epic character, take Perfect Two Weapon Fighting.

I'm not sure what Drow Shade is, but if you can make this character Necropolitan they'll be a much bigger threat (this can probably just be added on, but if you do it have them made by a Dread Necromancer or UA Necromancer and in a Desecrated area). That'll give them some big boosts and immunity, and then you can give them Lifesight (so they see all living characters, this ability is almost impossible to negate) and maybe the Eviscerator line of feats (every critical hit shakes all nearby enemies), plus you can make them Lifedrinker Kukris so they do a ton of negative levels. That'll be a very serious threat indeed, and scare the heck out of the players.

JaronK

[Keld Denar]

ok guys.i a dm and i make a powerful evil character 24 level drow shade template.he must have TWF kukri and i thought i build of rogue 10/assassin 9/invisible blade 5.i don't want tome of battle so any other suggestions is acceptable. and is there an option to make with both hands in the same target more than one sneak attack?

Um, not sure what you are asking in that last question, but I'm pretty sure you are asking if you can SA with both hands. The correct answer is yes. All attacks made in a round that qualify for SA get bonus damage from SA, whether they are mainhand, offhand, natural weapons, or weapon-like spells.

And really, if you are gonna go through all that effort, at level 24, you should pretty much just look at all of your players character sheets, find out who doesn't have Heavy Fortification up, roll a handful of dice behind a screen, and announce that that character is dead. Much easier and more direct.

[Flickerdart]

Surprising Repost
Nothing's less surprising than a repost.