So I tied my players to a keep/outpost. Now what?

[Pika...]

In my sandbox world a player decided he wanted to keep a deed he found to a half-ruined, but crucial (both for defense and trade) fortified outpost at the fringes of one of the biggest Realms/Kingdoms on my homebrewed setting/planet. So I went with it, the deeds were transfered to his name, and he was tasked with getting it working again, and taking the former noble house's (which was slaughtered along with the entire outpost) tasks of protecting the Realm from that direction and supplying trade to the kingdom.

So, while I have wanted to play a political/military game like this for ages, I sadly lack experience in it. :smallsigh:

Any help or advice would be appreciated greatly.

For example, where do I take this now? What kind of encounters do I do in such cases? How would a siege attack/session on the fort/outpost work? How do you run a political campaign, and how do I make a campaign more political?

How will tying my PCs to a location, and tasking them with it, it's upkeep, and all the rest change my game, and how should it change my mindset as a DM?

[Crow]

I used a lot of material from the 3.x Birthright rules found at this site (http://www.birthright.net) (in pdf).

Once we had some rules (I butchered them and picked and chose what I wanted) to use for managing the big picture, we started having the characters deal with things like subduing the local wilderness (eliminating bandits, wandering monsters, etc...), making diplomatic overtures to trade syndicates and working out special deals with them to encourage them to run their wares through the players' land, and sometimes adjudicating trade disputes and such for them. Also there were things like local matters of law, and maintaining relations with nearby local lords to secure assistance in times of need, which included all manner of different sorts of favors and adventures.

I found it super-useful to give them a seneschal that I could use to dump adventure and plot hooks onto their laps with. I'd come up with a few matters that would need their attention each session, and think about what happens if they ignore them. After that, it's on the players.

[Vandicus]

For the upkeep of the fortress, you could use the Stronghold Builder's guide to determine how many people are working there. Really, I'd just figure out some reasonable numbers for how much income they get from taxes on trade and subtract from that a # X*the number of hired people, regardless of type.

Heroes of Battle has some advice for larger scale combat. The primary idea of having PCs involved is to have them attempt crucial missions(often with trivial NPC support) that modifies the competing rolls of the two opposing armies.

[Saintheart]

Pathfinder's Kingmaker rules from the Rivers Run Red have some insights on mechanics for managing "kingdoms" of all shapes and sizes...?

[LansXero]

Pathfinder's Kingmaker rules from the Rivers Run Red have some insights on mechanics for managing "kingdoms" of all shapes and sizes...?

Yeah thats a great suggestion. It also has a "kingdom events" table that may give you ideas to keep them busy, and the whole adventure path tries to be non-linear and provide "MMORPGish" quests that can be taken and completed by the players besides the main questline. Id say its very worth checking it out, and paizo pdfs tend to be cheap.-

[Gwendol]

They need to figure out the economy to run the keep, then you need to explain what the expectations are (from the kingdom and the subjects under the protection from the keep) and let the players work that out.
Typically they should hire some help (captain of the guards, a governor of sorts or lieutenant, etc) to handle the day-to-day activities.

Sounds like it can be a lot of fun! I might be setting up one of my games in a keep as well, should they want it.

[JaronK]

I recommend throwing legitimate challenges at him (for example, black market groups trying to get in on border trade, bandit raiders taking advantage of the inexperienced new lord, diplomatic attempts at alliance and betrayal), while giving him the chance to use Leadership or similar to get minions that can handle the basic day to do grunt work. Usually, after he solves a specific challenge, he should have some ability to put someone else in charge of keeping that problem from popping up again (which stops it from becoming boring). Then, make a big far away threat... like a massive invasion brewing that this outpost will be part of. Give him the chance to decide to upgrade the tower into a major fortification or not (he may decide to just charge out and take down the enemy). Let him get creative.

JaronK

[Flickerdart]

He's going to need lackeys. Let him take Leadership if he wants to - his cohort will be needed at the keep to defend it when they're away, but when they're defending it against attackers as well, they'll have that edge, rather than being in the same situation they would be anywhere else.

[Valwyn]

I once played something similar to this, but in a computer game, so I can only give you ideas.

First, you're going to need NPCs to help the player. You should give him a secretary/advisor/personal assistant/consultant/someone to let him know what he needs to do to run the place. You should also hire an architect/engineer to fix the place (and maybe the land's structures (bridges, buildings, watch towers, etc) as well) since it's half ruined. A spymaster would be nice, too, since he could give extra quests and info (for example, find out who sent assassins after X, or get info on the bandit leader) .

The player will also need to get rid of all those bandits and monsters roaming the place. That will increase trade and allow farmers to settle in the lands. But to do that you're going to have to give him minions/soldiers unless he wants to hunt them down himself or hire mercs. If you give him soldiers you could also give him a smith/wizard to craft/enchant equipment for them.

As for the merchant part, you will need to send the PC to nearby city/towns and make him convince someone (a guild, most likely) to set up a trade caravan between said city/town and the keep/outpost. He could also need to hire guards to make sure that the caravans aren't attacked (those bandits just keep showing up even though you killed their leader! :smallfurious:).

The people who live in the keep should also be taken into account. If they're happy, they work harder and complain less. If the PC pisses them off they'll be angry, produce less and complain all the time (could be fun to have them revolt).

The soldiers (if any) could reflect the PC's alignment. A LG player would have decent soldiers who do their job properly and don't cause trouble. A LE's soldiers could be brutal when they catch someone after curfrew. A CN's soldiers could be disorganized and lazy.

There's plenty of things you could do with a Keep. I hope this helped.

[Dragonsoul]

I once played something similar to this, but in a computer game, so I can only give you ideas.

First, you're going to need NPCs to help the player. You should give him a secretary/advisor/personal assistant/consultant/someone to let him know what he needs to do to run the place. You should also hire an architect/engineer to fix the place (and maybe the land's structures (bridges, buildings, watch towers, etc) as well) since it's half ruined. A spymaster would be nice, too, since he could give extra quests and info (for example, find out who sent assassins after X, or get info on the bandit leader) .

The player will also need to get rid of all those bandits and monsters roaming the place. That will increase trade and allow farmers to settle in the lands. But to do that you're going to have to give him minions/soldiers unless he wants to hunt them down himself or hire mercs. If you give him soldiers you could also give him a smith/wizard to craft/enchant equipment for them.

As for the merchant part, you will need to send the PC to nearby city/towns and make him convince someone (a guild, most likely) to set up a trade caravan between said city/town and the keep/outpost. He could also need to hire guards to make sure that the caravans aren't attacked (those bandits just keep showing up even though you killed their leader! :smallfurious:).

The people who live in the keep should also be taken into account. If they're happy, they work harder and complain less. If the PC pisses them off they'll be angry, produce less and complain all the time (could be fun to have them revolt).

The soldiers (if any) could reflect the PC's alignment. A LG player would have decent soldiers who do their job properly and don't cause trouble. A LE's soldiers could be brutal when they catch someone after curfrew. A CN's soldiers could be disorganized and lazy.

There's plenty of things you could do with a Keep. I hope this helped.

And keep Neeshka away from the treasure vault!

[Valwyn]

And keep Neeshka away from the treasure vault!

Alas, I doubt that is even possible... was it too obvious that I ripped off NWN2? :smallredface:

[Dragonsoul]

Alas, I doubt that is even possible... was it too obvious that I ripped off NWN2? :smallredface:

How many 3.5 PC games where you get a keep are there?

[CapnVan]

For non-mechanics, several old Dragons deal largely with politics in a campaign.

Of note: #125, 145, 196...

[Valwyn]

How many 3.5 PC games where you get a keep are there?

I don't know, but we need moar of them. :smallbiggrin:

Also, since I was shameslessly ripping the game off, I might as well do it properly:

http://lparchive.org/Neverwinter-Nights-2/Update%2052/
http://lparchive.org/Neverwinter-Nights-2/Update%2053/
http://lparchive.org/Neverwinter-Nights-2/Update%2058/
http://lparchive.org/Neverwinter-Nights-2/Update%2066/
http://lparchive.org/Neverwinter-Nights-2/Update%2073/
http://lparchive.org/Neverwinter-Nights-2/Update%2077/
http://lparchive.org/Neverwinter-Nights-2/Update%2080/

Warning: some these have mayor spoilers, so you may not wan't to read some of them, especially the last one.

[Downysole]

I'm getting my players into the same thing right now and I had the same questions as you about a year ago, so I started reading (since I didn't know about this forum). I suggest Power of Faerun. Not because it's FR, but because they deal with the political campaign in chapter 1 and it goes from there.

I am going to complete (tonight actually) running a practice military campaign taking my players from Edoras through the siege of Helms Deep. It has told me a lot of what I didn't know, and it's been highly entertaining for my characters. The reason I did this was so that I didn't have to generate the texture and I could purely experiment on mechanics.

I highly recommend it.