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kanachi
2011-08-16, 05:05 AM
Hiya everyone, I’ve got an on going group at level 6 which consists of:

A warmage
A Ranger
A Psionic Scout (a homebrew version of the psionic rouge but using the scout as a base instead).

These characters are in control of a ship in a largely nautical campaign.

The partner of one of the players (the ranger) would like to join the campaign and expressed interest in taking control of a druid character who is an NPC aboard the ship. This move would actually be pretty cool for the campaign, so I’m happy with it.

However, this player has never played dnd before and she is not really the kind of person who is going to want an overly complex character sheet which requires a lot of book keeping. This also coupled with the fact that a druid is in general several tiers above the rest of the existing players has brought me to you guys in search of help.

Can you think of a class which has a lot of the druids flavour (a strong bond with nature) and can cast spells but is easier to use and not overflowing in either power or complexity. I was thinking of simply applying the spontaneous caster variant to the class, is that the most logical move here?

Lonely Tylenol
2011-08-16, 05:09 AM
Wildshape variant ranger.

The animal companion is statistically insignificant (comes online four levels later, and lower, than the ranger), the ranger still gets wildshape, has a small and simple spell selection (that is eased into quite gradually, well after the new player figures out wildshape), ranged combat is as simple as "point the sharp end at the bad guy and let go" after a few sessions, and the variant itself is solid Tier 3, so it's neither overpowering nor completely useless.

Psyren
2011-08-16, 07:53 AM
Spontaneous Druid is probably the easiest approach, and use the Minor Shapeshift variant (PHB2) instead of Wild Shape to simplify it even further.

Alternatively, if you have Complete Divine, Shugenja have a lot of nature flavor and are also very easy to use. (Cha-SAD)

Calimehter
2011-08-16, 08:14 AM
The real trick IMO will be a lack of familiarity with the Monster Manual(s), and the constant checking of stats and stuff that will come with Summon Nature's Ally, wild shape, animal companion(s), etc.. This can really cause a time drag on gameplay.

One option might be the Druidic Avenger from Unearthed Arcana. They don't get an animal companion nor can they spontaneously use Summon Nature's Ally, so some of the paperwork is cut down. They still get spells, and they get Rage, which is easy to keep track of and can help focus the spellcasting powers onto easier-to-track buffs and stuff.

Wild Shape will probably be the biggest headache at that point. For a newer player, it might be helpful to print out a couple of the more useful Wild Shape choices out for him/her, and just have them limit themselves to those choices until they are more comfortable moving freely between lots of different options for forms. You could even swap out wildshape for another UA variant (Aspect of Nature) to further simplify matters.

SamBurke
2011-08-16, 08:26 AM
The real trick IMO will be a lack of familiarity with the Monster Manual(s), and the constant checking of stats and stuff that will come with Summon Nature's Ally, wild shape, animal companion(s), etc.. This can really cause a time drag on gameplay.


Also, just open the SRD. That should do it. (Links mean summons will be easy as pie.) If not, tell him to do all homework pre-game, and forbid him from doing it in game if it takes longer than 60 seconds.

Psyren
2011-08-16, 08:51 AM
I advise against Druidic Avenger - rage on a spellcasting class can be difficult for a newer player to work around. Let him focus on casting so he gets better at it, rather than juggling two contradictory class features.

Gnaeus
2011-08-16, 08:54 AM
Spirit Shaman (also complete divine) is another good option for this. Much weaker for most purposes than standard druid. You could start the player out with a pre-selected spell list, then let the player swap out spells normally as familiarity with the game improves.

byaku rai
2011-08-16, 09:20 AM
+1 on the wildshape ranger, with your criteria. Personally, I think any completely new player should be introduced via a core melee class, simply because gameplay is "I move up to the enemy. I hit it." That sort of thing frees up the new player to figure out the system and do some research. And then, when they've done that, their original character can die or disappear and they can create one more interesting to play.

Calimehter
2011-08-16, 10:02 AM
I advise against Druidic Avenger - rage on a spellcasting class can be difficult for a newer player to work around. Let him focus on casting so he gets better at it, rather than juggling two contradictory class features.

Well, with DA you are mostly relegating the spellcasting to non-combat situations and some pre-battle (or even 1st round) buffs, then switching into rage-mode for most of the heavy duty combat actions. So long as a newer player is aware of this going in, I could see it being viewed as a helpful simplifcation rather than a frustrating restriction. If done right, you get the best of both worlds - you get spellcasting to play around with, but you also get simplified courses of action during combat.

Talya
2011-08-16, 10:06 AM
the psionic rouge

Mmm. Psionic rouge. Mind-over-matter make-up would save me so much time and money. Ah, but the big cosmetics corps would consider me a threat to their livelihood and send assassins if they found out, I'd have to be careful.

Gnaeus
2011-08-16, 10:15 AM
+1 on the wildshape ranger, with your criteria. Personally, I think any completely new player should be introduced via a core melee class, simply because gameplay is "I move up to the enemy. I hit it." That sort of thing frees up the new player to figure out the system and do some research. And then, when they've done that, their original character can die or disappear and they can create one more interesting to play.

Personally, I prefer casters for this use, because a caster can move up the optimization ladder (start with healing/blasting, move towards buffs, crowd control, debuffs, etc) without having to kill off their character. You just give them a few recommended spells at each level and let them experiment.

Randomguy
2011-08-16, 12:32 PM
Druids are supposed to be the easiest class to play well for new players, so don't worry too much.
The only things about Druid that require bookkeeping are spell selection and wildshape. To reduce the amount of bookkeeping, try the spontaneous casting variant from Unearthed Arcana and either the shapeshift variant or the aspect of nature variant from PHB2 and Unearthed Arcana, respectively.

Silva Stormrage
2011-08-16, 02:41 PM
Another option to replace wildshape is this variant from unearthed arcana

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid

Ivellius
2011-08-16, 02:46 PM
Totemist, maybe? Give a set of soulmelds and never move the essentia.

Just 'cause no one else has mentioned it.

Edit: Never mind, didn't see the "can cast spells" part. Although some of the binds are similar to spells.

Vladislav
2011-08-16, 02:51 PM
Wildshape Ranger still has the problem of leafing through books and keeping track of the stats of various shapes. In the timewasting department, Wildshape and Summon Nature's Ally are far worse offenders than the Animal Companion, because there are different shapes and monsters to choose from, while the animal companion is always the same.

I suggest a Mystic Ranger (dragon magazine) with the Wild Cohort feat.

You still get a lot of the Druid's flavor (some nature-based spells, animal companion), but no spontaneous SNA casting, no wild shape. Eliminates the "let's all wait for 15 minutes while the druid leafs through the SRD and checks which monster does more damage" phenomena forever.

Yes, there's still an animal companion to keep track of, but only one, and always the same.

Silva Stormrage
2011-08-16, 03:10 PM
Totemist, maybe? Give a set of soulmelds and never move the essentia.

Just 'cause no one else has mentioned it.

Edit: Never mind, didn't see the "can cast spells" part. Although some of the binds are similar to spells.

Still incarnum is a somewhat difficult system to learn off the bat.

graeylin
2011-08-16, 05:43 PM
Spirit Shaman
Shugenja
Or take a favored soul, and give it an earth/nature bend.

Or, nerf the druid class with some of the suggestions: No wildshape, remove summons spells (or allow very few animals, after research into them). The UA ACF gives up wildshape in exchange for some ranger and monk features that might be easier to handle for a newbie.

TSED
2011-08-16, 05:47 PM
Another vote here for spirit shaman. It's the sorcerer for druids - missing a bunch of class features, and a crippled spell selection. But those missing features mean that new players won't go "WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN" all the time.

Togath
2011-08-16, 06:01 PM
Also don't forget the phb2 druid shapeshift ability mentioned above, it swaps out your animal companion, casting in wildshape, and wildshape, for a set list of forms that you can turn into at will, phb2 also has rejuvenation, which allows you to swap out spontaneous summoning for AoE fast healing, which is triggered by expending a prepared spell.

Lord.Sorasen
2011-08-16, 06:26 PM
Reading all this over, you might consider sticking with druid. The hardest part of druid book-keeping is wildshape, but if you help him with it (and restrict him to 3 or so forms) she should be fine. I'd suggest helping him pick spells and making him a spontaneous variant druid (in the SRD). Give him 3 wild shape forms: land, air, and sea. Since it's an aquatic campaign, she's going to be spending a lot of time around water, meaning she'll probably really enjoy being able to turn into something that can swim. And the power to take to the skies will be amazing when the opponents are bound to a ship.

With this in mind, I feel wild shape ranger might actually be harder somehow. she'll have to choose favored enemy, which forces a dm to work in some or work some out of the player's choice... she'll need to know more wild shape forms, which takes a lot of time, and his feat selection may become less obvious.

My philosophy is like this: A class without enough complicated options will bore a new player, who will want to inevitably do interesting things. A class with only complicated options will frustrate a player, who is too new to the game to figure it out right away and can't function in the party properly without doing so. A good class for a beginner, therefor, does not require complicated action, but still rewards it. A druid is great for this. Without any thought they can function as bear/healers, with decent power and some straightforward magical abilities. But the limits of what the player can do is excellent. Print out a couple decent wild shapes and encourage him to look online to find more, and she should be happy.