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Totally Guy
2011-08-16, 07:18 AM
The least fun part of the game...

I never know who I should be interrogating or how far to go with them.

We got to the end of a fairly unsuccessful session a week ago and the GM apologised for the session sucking and said that we were supposed to interrogate the victim NPCs better.

What can I do to find some enjoyment in this element of the game?


When I run games I put dice to these scenes and state the difficulty and consequnces for failure explicitly. But I don't tend to run detective type games. In this game it's all detective, all the time and hardly any dice get rolled.

ufis
2011-08-16, 07:39 AM
Sit with your DM and discuss with him/her that your ability scores is not the same as your character's.

Just like you are not required to lift that heavy stone to reveal the entrance to the cave (but you do so by rolling a dice for your character) so should you not be required to figure out everything on your own, but should be allowed to roll a dice for your character to see if they can figure something out.

If your character has an INT score of 18, and you personally are not some super genius, you should not be expected to have the same insight as your character. Same goes for all the stats. And it works both ways - high and low scores.

The DM should also keep some balance - if the player just rolls for *everything* the character wants to do then the player become obsolete.

The best would be to talk to your DM and discuss this situation with him/her.

Engine
2011-08-16, 08:03 AM
Sit with your DM and discuss with him/her that your ability scores is not the same as your character's.

Just like you are not required to lift that heavy stone to reveal the entrance to the cave (but you do so by rolling a dice for your character) so should you not be required to figure out everything on your own, but should be allowed to roll a dice for your character to see if they can figure something out.

If your character has an INT score of 18, and you personally are not some super genius, you should not be expected to have the same insight as your character. Same goes for all the stats. And it works both ways - high and low scores.

The DM should also keep some balance - if the player just rolls for *everything* the character wants to do then the player become obsolete.

The best would be to talk to your DM and discuss this situation with him/her.

Well, not all systems use the same stat array as D&D. I'm currently playing a Trail of Cthulhu campaign, where characters don't have an INT score so it's up to the player figuring things (like interrogate an NPC).

While I agree that characters and players should not be the same (my current character is a laywer, but my knowledge about the law in the USA during the '30s is surely lacking. A lot. I just use the skill to know about laws) I think that a detective game need more effort from the players, otherwise I see little point in playing it.

Totally Guy
2011-08-16, 08:18 AM
The game is a BRP Delta Green game.

I didn't put any points into any interrogating type skill because that part of the game is not all that interesting. Players make characters that interact with the parts of the game the player finds most interesting. I perhaps take it for granted that not everyone knows that.

I talked with the GM after the last session. But I don't know how that's affected anything yet. So I'm trying to find a way to find the interrogation scenes more fun in an effort to do my part.

ufis
2011-08-16, 08:24 AM
Every system where you build a character should have some system to determine the success level for things your character does.

I used INT score as example. You use the law skill of your character.

If there is no such system, your character is basically you. Then it is no longer roleplaying.

And while not everything should be determined by a roll (like I mentioned in my first post) there should be room to do so.


So I'm trying to find a way to find the interrogation scenes more fun in an effort to do my part.

You can always watch some CIA movies, or even google some interrogation techniques.

Engine
2011-08-16, 08:33 AM
Every system where you build a character should have some system to determine the success level for things your character does.
I used INT score as example. You use the law skill of your character.

I meant that I could agree that in a detective game my character could know more than me, not be smarter than me. It seems pointless to me to roll a dice to test a character's intelligence in a detective game.

Totally Guy
2011-08-16, 08:46 AM
It seems pointless to me to roll a dice to test a character's intelligence in a detective game.

We have a Know roll and an Idea roll. It's right there in the system, baked in. Isn't that also present in Call of Cthulhu?

ufis
2011-08-16, 08:47 AM
I meant that I could agree that in a detective game my character could know more than me, not be smarter than me. It seems pointless to me to roll a dice to test a character's intelligence in a detective game.

The INT check was an example and has no specific reference to any game.

Nitpicking about it gets the OP no closer to a solution for his problem - so I will not entertain the nitpicking any further.

LongVin
2011-08-16, 09:46 AM
All good interogations should involve a table saw at some point.

Nachtritter
2011-08-16, 10:11 AM
I was going to say fire, but yes, a table saw works just as well.

LongVin
2011-08-16, 10:45 AM
Well lacking a table saw fire works well in a pinch.

Totally Guy
2011-08-16, 11:10 AM
I'm not talking about strictly villains.

In our game the NPCs that we were meant to interrogate had each lost a child recently.


I'm starting to think that the whole detective genre is frustrating. It's so artificial. The premise of the game prep the (alternating) GMs do is to create an illusion of a complex enigma that the players should reliably succeed at. :smallsigh:

valadil
2011-08-16, 11:34 AM
It sounds like your character isn't invested in being a detective. I think the GM either needs to back off on the interrogation elements or find a way to interest you and your character in doing them. Would a personal plot that happened to include an interrogation be more appealing?

sdream
2011-08-16, 11:40 AM
"I didn't put any points into any interrogating type skill because that part of the game is not all that interesting."

As people have said, that seems to be your issue. It's not a nitpick, if you do not enjoy roleplaying these aspects, put some points in them so you can just say:

"Ok my character interrogates them, what things does he learn that might be interesting?"

Your DM should then make a roll behind the screen and give you several leads.

If you don't understand the leads, ask your DM as if you were still interrogating him... "And is that bar in this city?" because your character would have asked enough questions to be able to take action.

Depending on how your roll went, some or all of these leads may be dead ends, but now you can take your character and use your face smashing, sneaking, and tracking skills to follow up on each lead to find the dead ends and live wires.

Even following up on a lead that is not accurate may cause you to stumble upon information useful to other plots, or initiate other plots... as long as your GM has not succumbed to railroaditus and only populated his entire world with the 2 people and 1 place that will advance the particular issue you are looking at in this moment.

Rhydeble
2011-08-16, 01:33 PM
The best thing of having a roll decide on the outcome is that you can roleplay ridiculous thing.


Why yes, I can torture the information out of him with a rubber ducky, after all, I rolled a 27.

Human Paragon 3
2011-08-16, 03:59 PM
Check out the show Burn Notice for creative ways to run an interrogation.

Engine
2011-08-16, 04:33 PM
We have a Know roll and an Idea roll. It's right there in the system, baked in. Isn't that also present in Call of Cthulhu?

I'm playing Trail of Cthulhu, not Call of Cthulhu.:smallbiggrin:

Drachasor
2011-08-16, 09:29 PM
I'm always surprised by how quickly my group wants to go to torture. Most games actually have pretty good systems for interacting with people that can be applied to getting information out of them too -- especially d20 games.

Instead, my fellow players always seem to want to start physical abuse pretty much immediately. *sigh*

Acanous
2011-08-16, 10:42 PM
The best thing of having a roll decide on the outcome is that you can roleplay ridiculous thing.


Why yes, I can torture the information out of him with a rubber ducky, after all, I rolled a 27.

"My character douses the lights, walks up to the guy-RIGHT up to the guy. He can smell the smoked ham on rye and stale coffee I had for lunch. I just stare at him, like he's a puppy that peed on my shoes and I'm thinking about weather I should clock him one before I rub his nose in it.

I wait like that for 22 seconds, breathing down his neck, and then I say
'Tell me, Carl, how much do you like your toes?'"

Interrogation isn't about physical abuse, it's mental. the physical part is only there to reinforce why someone should be afraid if they've gone into the happy bubble.

if your DM doesn't like your direct line of threats, then after you're done playing mumblypeg with the interogatee's fingers, ask your assistant to go get you two plumbs, a teaspoon and a live rodent.

When the DM asks you what you're going to do with those things, treat it like he asked in character and say "I don't know, Carl, what do YOU think I'm going to do?"

works every time.

Totally Guy
2011-08-17, 01:12 AM
I'm not talking about strictly villains.

In our game the NPCs that we were meant to interrogate had each lost a child recently.

Drachasor
2011-08-17, 01:17 AM
Well, in D&D Diplomacy should really get the job done. No need for torture or other unpleasantness. You should be able to easily get them to talk.

That said, intimidate works too, no need to go into the gruesome details or torture there either -- not that torture works particularly well.

Of course, it depends on the DM and how well they follow the rules (granted diplomacy cheese means they shouldn't entirely follow the rules). Certainly some DMs want you to get information out of people, then make it nigh impossible -- which is really weird.

Anyhow, in practical terms, I recommend spending a bit of time working on befriending the target using diplomacy or the equivalent in the game. One PC rolls, others assist. Spend a bit of time doing that before asking any real question. Occasionally some bluffing and/or bribing might be needed.

Knaight
2011-08-17, 03:59 AM
If there is no such system, your character is basically you. Then it is no longer roleplaying.
So what you are saying is that "freeform character" is an oxymoron? Because that is the logical conclusion of this argument, and the data suggest otherwise.


I'm starting to think that the whole detective genre is frustrating. It's so artificial. The premise of the game prep the (alternating) GMs do is to create an illusion of a complex enigma that the players should reliably succeed at. :smallsigh:

Fiction, including that made in role playing games, is all about artifice and illusion. The illusion of a complex enigma that nonetheless reliably gets solved, the illusion of mortal danger repeatedly without killing characters, both show up time and time again. The detective genre works.

What it doesn't do is work for you. So don't play games in that genre.

Totally Guy
2011-08-17, 04:37 AM
Fiction, including that made in role playing games, is all about artifice and illusion. The illusion of a complex enigma that nonetheless reliably gets solved, the illusion of mortal danger repeatedly without killing characters, both show up time and time again. The detective genre works.

What it doesn't do is work for you. So don't play games in that genre.

I've been saying this for weeks but I'm going to send a message to quit this group today.

supermonkeyjoe
2011-08-17, 07:22 AM
I think your use of the word Interrogate was a but misleading, from the sounds of it some of the NPCs were just in for questioning?

Also if you aren't having fun and you don;t see any way of enjoying that kind of game then quitting is definitely the right call. I'm sure i've heard "no roleplaying is better than bad roleplaying" parroted around this forum a bit so *squawk* I guess.

hewhosaysfish
2011-08-17, 07:47 AM
I think your use of the word Interrogate was a but misleading, from the sounds of it some of the NPCs were just in for questioning?

"Please, can you help me find my son? He's gone missing..."
"Of course, I'll help. Where did you last see him? ANSWER ME, BITCH! ARE YOU HIDING SOMETHING? SO HELP ME GOD, IF I THINK YOU'RE LYING TO ME...!"

Sadly, PCs often are this crazy.

On a more serious note: this sounds to me like the GM didn't put enough clues in. Apparently, it's a common problem with mystery plots; you have to assume the players will miss (i.e. not find, fail to recognise as significant or just completely misinterpret) two-thirds of the clues present (no matter how obvious you thought they were) and if they can't see any way forward with the clues they have then the plot just grinds to a halt.

Totally Guy
2011-08-17, 07:56 AM
Just sent the message. Now I feel like a total jerk. :smallfrown:

It was mostly constructive stuff. With game examples.

Oh well. :smallfrown: