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View Full Version : Convertable GP vs XP costs

jiriku
2011-08-16, 11:57 AM
So, the rule of thumb the game proposes is that 1 xp = 5 gp. I'm building a class that assigns a convertable gp/xp cost to some spells, and I like charts, so I made one to see if the 5:1 exchange ratio was valid through all 20 levels of play.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab24/gallopinggiraffes/GPvsXP.jpg

It's not. From levels 1-10, the treasure-gain to xp-gain ratio is more like 1:1. It rockets up from there, and passes 5:1 around 16th level, but it's more like 10:1 by level 20.

What do you think the impact would be if I just set the XP chart to 20% of the values on the WBL chart? Has anyone else jury-rigged a better relationship to smooth this out?

137ben
2011-08-16, 01:30 PM
XP/level increases linearly, while gold/level increases exponentially. There really isn't anything wrong with this (I don't mind that gold increases faster than xp). The "flawed" part of the system is the assumption that there IS a direct linear gold:xp exchange rate. Instead of using the given conversion, the conversion between xp and gold should depend on your level.

DeAnno
2011-08-16, 04:41 PM
The really wonderful part is that Gear Quality increases quadratically, so that doesn't scale properly with WBL either. This is one area where 4e really outdid 3.5: the economy all scales in a readily mathematical way.

I've been working on the WBL problem for my Epic Level Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211591) thread anyway, so I'll try to model it 1-20 with an actual equation and get back to you.

Yitzi
2011-08-16, 05:11 PM
The ratio is supposed to be of approximate worth. The ratio at which it's gained is somewhat totally different (in fact, a table for that, if you don't feel like crunching the numbers yourself can be found here (http://community.wizards.com/coco/wiki/Rules_of_Gladius_%283.5e%29/Battles_of_Gladius_I) (near the bottom).)

Silva Stormrage
2011-08-16, 05:16 PM
Wow I can't help you with assigning a formula but I had no idea wealth jumped up that fast :smalleek:.

Glimbur
2011-08-16, 05:26 PM
Wow I can't help you with assigning a formula but I had no idea wealth jumped up that fast :smalleek:.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Of course, a +2 stat item is 4K, and a +4 stat item is 16K, so the same increase starts costing more. Since that's the case it follows that, assuming we want people to increase their numbers at a steady rate, wealth by level should increase faster than linearly. Change the costs for items and you can change the math.

Silva Stormrage
2011-08-16, 05:27 PM
Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Of course, a +2 stat item is 4K, and a +4 stat item is 16K, so the same increase starts costing more. Since that's the case it follows that, assuming we want people to increase their numbers at a steady rate, wealth by level should increase faster than linearly. Change the costs for items and you can change the math.

I never got why it NEEDS to go up exponentially for the cost. Why couldn't they make it scale linearly?

137ben
2011-08-16, 05:37 PM
I never got why it NEEDS to go up exponentially for the cost. Why couldn't they make it scale linearly?

Otherwise it becomes too easy to put enormous bonuses into one item. Since cost increases quadratically, you have an incentive to spread out your wealth between your weapon/helm/shield/armor/amulet/ect. Otherwise you could get just as powerful an effect for the same cost in 1 item.

Silva Stormrage
2011-08-16, 05:40 PM
Otherwise it becomes too easy to put enormous bonuses into one item. Since cost increases quadratically, you have an incentive to spread out your wealth between your weapon/helm/shield/armor/amulet/ect. Otherwise you could get just as powerful an effect for the same cost in 1 item.

Ah okay that makes sense.

137ben
2011-08-16, 06:31 PM
Ah okay that makes sense.

Yea...

I'd GUESS that the reason gold increases exponentially, while equipment cost only increases quadratically, is because they WANT item power to increase faster...I don't know why though:smallconfused:

DeAnno
2011-08-16, 07:15 PM
Yea...

I'd GUESS that the reason gold increases exponentially, while equipment cost only increases quadratically, is because they WANT item power to increase faster...I don't know why though:smallconfused:

Never assume that something happened because people understood math when it's easier to explain it with people not understanding math. It's really a shame WBL doesn't scale quadratically like almost all the items do (even wands and staves when you consider Caster Level*Spell Level is going to cause quadratic effects).

It doesn't actually even scale exponentially: it's doubling time at early levels is much quicker and then it slows down as you level more and more, so its rather difficult to model at all. 10-20 follows one speed, 21-30 another speed, and 1-10 seems to be an almost random assortment of guesses.

137ben
2011-08-16, 09:20 PM
Never assume that something happened because people understood math when it's easier to explain it with people not understanding math. It's really a shame WBL doesn't scale quadratically like almost all the items do (even wands and staves when you consider Caster Level*Spell Level is going to cause quadratic effects).

It doesn't actually even scale exponentially: it's doubling time at early levels is much quicker and then it slows down as you level more and more, so its rather difficult to model at all. 10-20 follows one speed, 21-30 another speed, and 1-10 seems to be an almost random assortment of guesses.

Not to mention the ratio of gold gained from encounters to how much is actually kept is all over the place as well.